PDA

View Full Version : Demographics, Pilot Shortages, Jetstar and Qantas, etc


Ochre Insider
21st Dec 2005, 07:25
Recently, for a variety of reasons (one of which is undoubtedly that I have no life), I have been paying attention to various media pronouncements and other anecdotal evidence in relation to the ageing population. Depending on how you view such matters, I have gleaned several very interesting facts.

First, it was recently reported that the number of school and university leavers enterning the workforce in 2006 was around 180,000. On current projections, by the year 2020, that will decline to less than 15,000! I encourage you to read that again, and digest it, slowly.

Second, I was also recently in a discussion with a friend whose employment is largely dependent on the nature of such demographics. He informed me that whilst there is still mild growth in the 15-19 year old demographic for the next 4 years, the drop off in the 4 years following is extraordinary. We're talking about a decline of about 40%. And this is not a problem that can be solved quickly.

So what are the implications for the economy? This week the Reserve Bank has stated upward pressure on interest rates are beginning to occur because labour market shortages are placing upward pressure on wages. In short, there are not enough nurses, not enough suitable candidates for the military, not enough doctors, not enough mining industry employees, not enough tradespeople, etc. It seems virtually every occupation is feeling the pinch. In fact, one of this week's editions of the Fin Review had a front page headline that screamed "Millionaire Tradesman". The message is that these formerly unheralded occupations are now reaping the rewards of supply falling far short of demand.

And how about our industry? It is no secret that pilot shortages are acute worldwide, with the notable exception of certain Western Democracies. The USA is flush with pilots. So too, it is suggested, is Australia. But there is increasing evidence that the Australian airlines have vast distinction between candidates and SUITABLE candidates, and this is dramatically affecting the supply side imbalance.

The current decline in pilot training numbers is not exactly a surprise. Quite frankly, who is going to fork out tens of thousands of dollars for a qualification that in many cases has you less rewarded than a train driver, or of course a tradesman? Rumours are circulating that Qantas are concerned at this development, and the word is the hitherto strict entry requirements will soon be lowered in order to allow supply to meet demand. Further, it is rumoured Jetstar are concerned their recruiting net is no longer throwing up the number of suitable candidates required to satisfy their expansion. And in the case of the regionals there can be no doubt - last week Rex had to advertise for pilots in The Australian.

This week we've had the Eastern Pilots reject an EBA, despite management scare tactics. We've also had the Jetstar Pilot Group walk away from Jetstar International negotiations, again despite management scare tactics. We're led to believe that large numbers of Australian pilots are waiting to return home to work for substandard pay and conditions. Ask yourself, if that were the case why would they bother negotiating with the current Jetstar, Qantas or any other pilots for that matter? Emirates plan to double their fleet by 2012, and their fleet expansion includes 45 A380's. Can you really see them letting a large bunch of experienced Aussies walk without a fight? The cost of pilots is nothing compared to shiny new aircraft parked up against a fence.

My point is that things are starting to work in our favour. Jetstar have ordered the 787 so there is no group of endorsed and experienced pilots ready to step into the pointy end. A 2008 delivery target means they need to settle the crewing of the airline and commence the project fast. To Jetstar pilots, please do not sell yourself short on Jetstar International. Do not fall for the scare tactics. Management do not really have a credible cut price option. Hold out for something decent and the threat of aircraft arriving with nobody qualified to crew them will ensure they eventually come to the party.

You had no choice last time, and nobody could blame you for yielding. They threatened your jobs, your family and your livelihood. But the tide has turned. As I said, if they really had another option they wouldn't even bother negotiating. Don't fall for the scare tactics. You now hold the aces. Use them wisely.

OI

chimbu warrior
21st Dec 2005, 08:17
OI, an interesting observation (or two), but I think Australia is a long way from a pilot shortage (huge sigh).

Whilst I do not challenge the accuracy of your projections, I have little doubt that our government will increase immigration to counter the declining birth rate. Given their lopsided powers of logic, they will probably entice them here with the offer of a free tertiary education, and then throw in a free CPL/IR & ATPL subjects to sweeten the deal.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for increased immigration as I have no doubt that it will lead to economic growth. I do however sense that our elected representatives frequently forget who it was that cast the votes that gave them a first class ticket on the gravy train, and I am sure they will continue to pass legislation that marginalises the average Australian.

In any case, I think we are a long way away from 165 hour CPL's sliding into the right seat of an airline jet. If indeed Jetstar are concerned about a dearth of suitable applicants, then perhaps they should review their hiring process.

Surely a greater emphasis on aviation-related skills and less on the academic achievements of a rocket-scientist would be appropriate.

Uncommon Sense
21st Dec 2005, 08:43
One thing that stems from OI argument above is that the continued growth is not sustainable overall with a contracting workforce and ageing demographic. Therefore the demand for pilots will probably drop off, along with most other industries as the economy contracts.

The continual growth expectation has led to some highly geared investment strategies, including by the companies that look after all your superannuation.

However many signs point to a slow down, contraction and correction, especially with energy prices rising. The amount of consumer debt tied to inflated and highly geared real estate valuations indicates no soft landing - more like a major recession or even depression.

With 95% of air transport being totally arbitrary, the lack of pilots is not the real issue brewing.

4PW's
21st Dec 2005, 08:58
Uncommon Sense is a person with questionable sense.

Anything he or she has ever written is emotional.

I'm surprised it hasn't slashed its wrists, or joined al Qaeda.

Uncommon Sense
21st Dec 2005, 09:45
Thanks 4PW

And a big Merry Christmas to you too.

(Anytime you want to but in to my emotional argument with some facts of your own feel free)

QFinsider
21st Dec 2005, 10:01
Whilst I didnt articulate it nearly as eloquently as Ochre, I agree in summary with analysis.

Ask around there will be a paradigm shift. Heard of the IR laws, they are a direct result of a market inbalance away from the corporation toward skilled labour. So market economics prevails until the market is handed to labour, then legislation removes the perceived imbalance handing it back to the employer.

Got to love it.

The sheer numbers will bite in big ways not before seen in the western economies.As alluded to earlier, segments in many industries concerned with the medium to long term investment are adjusting even now. The big changes will be apparent in the next five years as the baby boomers shuffle off.

The bit that blew me away with my jelly back colleagues is our EBA was a chance to be part of the concerted push to redefining this shift. But with most things my senior colleagues displayed a spectacular case of short sightedness....At least 58% of them did.

The FAA increasing the age to 63-65 will skew it in our industry...The IR laws will slow it, but ultimately as resources are sucked away from the mature to the developing economies real wages increase. Make no mistake it is a huge impact, one largely ignored by western economies who have short enough political cycles to ensure it is someone else's problem!:E

HI'er
21st Dec 2005, 10:17
In any case, I think we are a long way away from 165 hour CPL's sliding into the right seat of an airline jetThis has been the norm in many Asian countries for several years now.
As a matter of fact I read a report which stated that Chinese and Japanese airline companies are paying for FULL pilot training, post school.
Japan Air Lines has purchased the BAE Flying school located at Parafield Airport, South Australia, to commence ab initio pilot training from February 2006.
The reason graduates aren't leaping out of their skins to become pilots in Asian countries?
Because airline pilots' conditions are comparable with those of lawyers, engineers, and comparable professions which have less responsibility, and are not dependant on 6/12 monthly medicals, and performance standard checks for the rest of one's working life....

Uncommon Sense
21st Dec 2005, 10:23
HI'er,

True - but I think most people become pilots because of the passion for flying, not the comparitive salary with jobs of less responsibility.

In Japan however, the legal responsibilities are much greater with respect to Aviation. Jailings have occurred for near miss type incidents - pilots and ATC.

Pass-A-Frozo
21st Dec 2005, 10:35
lawyers, engineers, and comparable professions Bahahahahahah.
:yuk:

HI'er
21st Dec 2005, 10:38
"the passion for flying

That seems to be moreso the case in Western countries, U.S., I believe.
Choosing one's career in Asia is done much more "clinically", based on salary and award conditions, but I'm not denying there is a percentage of the non-Western population who "love" flying - imo, it's just not as high as their counterparts.

In Japan however, the legal responsibilities are much greater with respect to Aviation. Jailings have occurred for near miss type incidents - pilots and ATC.And airline CEO's voluntarily resign their positions, following even relatively minor incursions of their company's aircraft.
Can you imagine Dixon doing that?

Actually, if it were guaranteed he would, you'd probably have pilots falling over themselves to be the first!

(Bahahaha all you like P-A-F....is your wife's name Dolly? :} - those are just a few of the alternative professions that the majority of pilots are easily capable of achieving.
I ommited Dentristry, merchant banking, and education just to see if you were on the ball - but as one would expect, you possess no "leadership qualities" of the type required to allow you to successfully enter non-governmenial employment :uhoh: )

Blue-Footed Boobie
21st Dec 2005, 15:06
Chimbu Warrior makes the best point of this thread that if Qantas & Jet* can't find enough suitable people then they need to look at what they define 'suitable' as.

Without question the HR boffins and Industrial Psychologists looking to justify their own jobs have loaded the slection process up with a lot of shyte. The selection process has been contracted out and these people need to fail perfectly suitable people to demonstrate their system works.

I know there are some odd characters in aviation who would be dangerous in a flight-deck (having met one or two) but the majority of qualified pilots are motivated and intelligent enough to do the job, especially when aircraft become more automated and level the skill gradient.

Seems to me that the selection process itself needs looking at to match the technological aspects of a modern aircraft, ie Airbus, and not rely on the 70's 80's doctrines of personality assessments and the notion of 'right stuff'.

BFB

haughtney1
21st Dec 2005, 16:21
Just to back up what blue foot says.....

Ive just accepted a great offer with an airline in the UK called Monarch, on the face of it you would think that an airline that operates a mixed charter and scheduled fleet of narrow and wide body Airbus/Boeings would have a regimented and "structured" HR recruitment process. However, the interview for the job was just that, no surveys, no psychometric mumbo jumble, instead a plain old chat between candidate and two mangement pilots.
I asked why Monarch interview this way, the answer was simple, "you can practice to pass tests, you cant practice your personality". They also went onto say that the raft of expensive, and ultimately self serving HR companies got it wrong more often than they got it right.

Something to think about:cool: isnt it?

chimbu warrior
21st Dec 2005, 19:31
Haughtney, I am convinced they hired the right bloke! Enjoy.

tinpis
21st Dec 2005, 19:47
Monarch bloody great outfit.
Get some of the older crew to wax on about the 720 !

Captain Sand Dune
21st Dec 2005, 22:29
Sounds like Monarch have got it about right. Always thought that the best qualified people to conduct an interview for a prospective pilot employee would be...............another pilot.
After all, the pilot ain't gonna be working with the HR people (if they've got any self respect!).

Skypatrol
21st Dec 2005, 22:56
OI,
Nice post. I know the first change J* can do to their recruiting policy and that is to get rid of the atrocious policy of paying for endorsements, something which our wonderful mates at DJ started up for us!

tifters
22nd Dec 2005, 01:02
Interesting post OI.
Just to add a bit to your views, keep an eye out for Chinese avaition....when they open their doors, lookout!!! I dont think that they will have fantastic offers, ala Cathay A scales but they will have to offer some decent packages to entice guys/gals to live up there in Beijing/Shanghai.
It may not have an immediate affect in Oz but there will be a flow on effect when Asian/Middle Eastern carriers cant find enough pilots as they are all heading to Beijing. Fingers crossed!!!
Although, whenever we get excited about this pilot shortage thing, something always goes bang!!!
Good luck to the crews at Jet*, look to the future!!!

QFinsider
22nd Dec 2005, 01:05
I think the lil fellas at Impulse may have led the pack in that regard.....If memory serves:E

BackdoorBandit
22nd Dec 2005, 05:37
There are still a lot of pilots out there with multiple thousand hours multi not even getting an interview with any airline.

The big pilot shortage bogey man is a long way off yet - in this country.

Rostov
22nd Dec 2005, 06:04
QFinsider,
What do you mean by that comment. Would you care to explain?

tifters
22nd Dec 2005, 08:17
There may be alot of pilots still out there, but my point is, is lets hope that China opens the door and puts the welcome mat out, otherwise i am sure we will still see the current conditions for alot longer!!!
Maybe contract jobs will be the way of the future, if enough of them are offerred, some of the bigger airlines might see more of the senior guys heading off for a couple of years of profit flying in Asia and the Middle East!!??