Mick Goss and Matthew Harding

[attackattackattack]

Did anybody see the prog last night about how badly qualified the rotary world is and how hard the bodies (BHAB et all) are fighting to keep it this way?

I know I should not be surprised at bad reporting of the aviation industry, but I object when a former colleague gets it in the neck, especially when he can not defend himself.

I am particularly unimpressed that the Beeb decided to use Mrs Harding (with whom I have deep sympathy) as the voice of critism. I'm afraid the widow of an accident victim does not make a credible expert witness into the woes of the Helicopter industry.

I realise we can't do anything except know that Mick was a professional and that, without absurd financial and passenger pressure, would probably have gone nowhere near the final flight. I also feel like putting large doses of laxitive in the water at Beeb House in an attempt to wash some of the cr*p out of their sad little bodies.

If you didn't see the programme then don't bother watching the repeat as it will only get you annoyed.

[This message has been edited by attackattackattack (edited 09 June 1999).]

[PurplePitot]

I could not agree more. I have just watched a taped recording of the programme and have to conclude that it is complete and utter tosh. Clearly the last thing the industry needs right now is scaremongering by an organisation that is desperate for viewers and has little credibility beyond that of the Vanessa show.

[Chip Lite]

Sorry Guys, but despite the sentimentality, sensationalisation and superficial nature of the report, it only started to scratch the surface. Fundementally I agree with the fact that ALL helicopter pilots engaged in public transport operations should be Instrument Rated, all helicopters should be IFR capable too. If they had been and were, then some of my friends MAY also be still alive.

[Chip Lite]

Sorry Guys, but despite the sentimentality, sensationalisation and superficial nature of the report, it only started to scratch the surface. Fundementally I agree with the fact that ALL helicopter pilots engaged in public transport operations should be Instrument Rated, all helicopters should be IFR capable too. If they had been and were, then some of my friends MAY also be still alive.

[xyz_pilot]

The question which the bbc did not answer is, why do you need an IR for public transport at night in a fixed wing a/c but not in a rotary.

I am not qualified to answer. Over to the rotary experts.

[attackattackattack]

Chips

I agree that are potential problems in the industry. My main complaint is with the sentimentality, sensationalism and superficiality in the report.

I also believe that there is another important issue, touched upon briefly in the prog, that should be discussed in a more rational way, namely the pressures on Corporate pilots to make decisions that counter common sense.

[This message has been edited by attackattackattack (edited 10 June 1999).]

[Skycop]

This has been discussed for years now but some accidents may not have been prevented if the pilot was Instrument Rated. It could be argued that some pilots then might be tempted to press on even further into bad weather in the hope that their instrument skills will save them. The real killer is pressing on into bad weather, night or day, due to internal or external pressure to get a VFR job done in IFR conditions. Anyone see "Silent Witness" a couple of weeks ago? Another masterpiece doing nothing to help our industry. Don't forget that the helicopter is the only aircraft deemed to have saved more lives than it has lost.

[leading edge]

I live in the lucky country so have not seen the program. Even here, we often encounter weather conditions which would necessitate an instrument rating. I believe that an IR should be an integral requirement of an ATPL everywhere and that annual CRM and ADM training should be mandatory. I too have lost friends in CFIT accidents. The notion that IRs will encourage pilots to press on in the hope that their skills will save them is about as credible as Tony Blair.

I believe that anybody who has an involvement with aviation on a professional basis, including the bosses of companies who operate corporate aircraft, should have to undergo CRM training. When the attitude is right at the top, then we will start to make serious in-roads to rotary wing safety.

[PNVS]

I agree with most replies to this post however Mick Goss was not new to flying hels in IMC, he was a master green IRE in the Army and had lots of practice flying the worst case example. (IE a Gazelle no AP, Trim) As for requiring a IR for flying a Heli in public transport small A/C going short hops in and out of the Brit GP and the like just don't need to join an airway do a hold and fly a ILS. In summary he was probably disorientated and distracted and it cost him his and his passenger’s lives. RIP all.

[Skycop]

LE, I stand by my guns in that the major reason for Helicopter CFIT is attempting to fly VFR in IMC i.e. below safe wx limits, day or night. This is also true for small fixed wing. I whole heartedly agree that if anyone is going to fly in IMC then the pilot and the aircraft must of course be IFR capable. The problem comes for some pilots, not all, deciding when to "bin it" and stay on the ground, if commercial pressure is a factor to launch (especially if bossman is sitting in the back giving the pilot verbal). I'm curious why do you not include CPL(H) for instrument rating. Do you operate helipad to helipad (no approach aids)at night? In my corner of the trade we couldn't actually do our job if we had to operate to IFR regs. (I am not saying I disagree with the notion that we should all be IR'd).