Annoying questions!

[european champion]

I just get so annoyed with all these questions when filling an application form'why do you want to be a pilot?','apart from good pilot flying skills,what attributes do you believe are required of a pilot in a succesful airline?','write your autobiography' !
i dont think we should be judged upon our skills for writing an essay,not everyone has english as his native language.also we cant spend a whole day for filling just one application form,we should find a way to make it easier and quicker and send hundreds of applications every day.
is there any book that has any answers for these kind of 'intelligence test' questions?any other suggestions?

[window-seat]

Don't Worry!!!

Type all your application answers out on 'Word' and save them, before you neatly copy them onto the application form (in your bestest hand-writing), or copy them onto the online form. After 3 or 4 different applications, you will probably have all the answers you need, already done. Online forms become a 'copy & paste' exercise, and can be done in minutes!!
:p

Good Luck

W-S

[european champion]

Thanks for the suggestions.u r right,il just waste some time in the beginning to write all the essays and then save them to keep them.the problem is where to find some material with ideas about things to write,it would be much easier and a lot more accurate.are there any books that help u write pilot application forms?

[scroggs]

If you find that justifying and explaining your ambition is too difficult, and a waste of your valuable time, perhaps you should investigate a career that is less demanding of your intelligence?

Scroggs

[european champion]

First of all i dont think justfying or explaining ambitions is a sign of intelligence or it should be a way for an 'HR Specialist ' to judge someone,anyone can bull**** and write things that they dont believe.
Second, i think u see it from a different point of u,i see it as a wannabe pilot who has sent hundreds of applications as many other wanabes and i dont even get response in most of them,im lucky if i get a 'thank you but sorry...'response.wouldnt that make anyone less motivated to write essays on applications?
Third, where i come from, applications or cvs dont mean nothing,the only people who get jobs are 100% the people who have their father in the airline or who use a politician in order to get a job,simple as that,i dont know how it is where u come from,thats one more reason to lose motivation i think.

[Addy]

If you find that justifying and explaining your ambition is too difficult, and a waste of your valuable time, perhaps you should investigate a career that is less demanding of your intelligence?

Scroggs

Thank you very much professor scroggs, this must be one of the most valuable replies I have ever seen on pprune!

Let me explain some things to you, things you might not understand as you started flying in a completely different time. A time when training was paid for, a time when mcc was paid for, a time when finance-your-own-TR or bonds were things from another planet...

To pay a loan plus interest, keep your licenses valid, all while keeping yourself alive, you need something.

how do you get this something? by working! not part time, no, probably 7 days a week 8-10 hrs a day!

Since you seem to know it all, could you please tell me where I should find the time to write down a complete, high quality, essay, containing a story everybody could've made up, and probably the same story you'll tell during the interview, in the unlikely event you might even get that far?

Oh, almost forgot the old-fashioned way of applying by sending application letters plus CV's...

And all of this not once, nooooo!!! because what's the chance of successful applying with just 1 shot? you'll need to do this at least 600 times to get your interview!

could you please help me out? because I really get the feeling I'm not intelligent enough, I can't seem to fit this in!!!

[boeingbus2002]

Firstly I agree completely that these essay questions are a pain in the butt. However look at it from another perspective.
These companies get 100s of CV's weekly and so they need to filter the applicants to some level.
The main requirement is obviously a commercial licence, which all applicants would have. Next would be experience on type. Well, if you are low hours, and not currently flying, that would effectively mean game over. However there are companies who look at the broader picture and at the person in general.

Therefore, what is there to differentiate Mr. A with Miss B? Both have identical hours and no type rating. If one might have a degree qualification, some say this is biased as not everyone can afford a degree AND pay for pilot training.
Therefore these questions the designed to find out what life experience a person has which demonstrates the desirable qualities a pilot needs. They are not soley looking at work experience either, just skills and attributes that you have acquired and developed. Evidence of how you handled situations and if there is logic to your decision making. Its easy to brag about the things you did, events organised etc. However its the WAY you do this they are interested in, not necessarily "what" you did.
Now some say you dont have time for this. Well as mentioned once you have the base examples, just a little modification is required for each.

Addy mentioned these stories could be made up. Well, maybe. However these stories will become talking points in an interview situation. They will ask you to expand further and then it will be easy to spot the lies! They will grill you on each aspect and question why you chose the particular decision you did.

European Champion - I dont believe Scroggs ever mentioned justfying or explaining ambitions is a sign of intelligence. Merely if you really wanted to become a pilot, it cannot be that hard to explain what factors about the job attracted you to the career.

As I mentioned,I don't like these essay questions either, however try to think of it as another opportunity to sell yourself a little bit more, in order to get to an interview.

[zedex7rrrrrrr]

Nearly everyone on the bottom rung of the ladder would take the very first job that they were offered and they would look everywhere for it. One of the easiest ways to do this is to fire off a hundred CVs with a 'standard issue' covering letter. Perhaps some airlines use these long and drawn out essay questions to find people that don't just want to fly planes, but want to fly planes for them.

[The African Dude]

also we cant spend a whole day for filling just one application form,we should find a way to make it easier and quicker and send hundreds of applications every day. Sorry to burst your bubble mate but if you're not prepared to spend a whole, single day filling in a form for a job that you are hoping will provide for you and possible your family for the rest of your working life then you're not going to go very far.

I have a few questions for you:

1. If you can't be bothered to explain to the recruiters your motivation for becoming a pilot, how do you expect them to find out whether you'll make a dedicated employee?

2. What makes you think that employers want MORE applicants? You imply that it would be better for applicants to be able to send more applications per day. Did it occur to you that in order to cut down the pile to a shortlist the employer will then have to apply more selection criteria? This, I believe answers your original question along the lines of "What's the point?!".

3. I can empathise with your frustration, regarding the increased difficulty associated with writing English essays when 1st language isn't English. But on the other hand my partner has had to learn French in order to move to Lausanne as she wished - why should it be any different for the rest of us? The world isn't perfect. That's why the more effort you put in, the more barriers you will break down and the more you will accomplish.

So get on with it!


Edit:

As for
"the only people who get jobs are 100% the people who have their father in the airline or who use a politician in order to get a job,simple as that"... are you Spaceman in disguise? Try a more positive attitude - you never know, it might come across in your applications and get you that opportunity!

[scroggs]

Let me explain some things to you, things you might not understand as you started flying in a completely different time. A time when training was paid for, a time when mcc was paid for, a time when finance-your-own-TR or bonds were things from another planet...
To pay a loan plus interest, keep your licenses valid, all while keeping yourself alive, you need something.

Yes, you need money. And your attitude seems to be that if you've paid for it, you need do nothing more. Well, I'm sorry, but you're wrong. You are attempting to enter a highly competitive industry, one where all the applicants have the appropriate minimum professional qualifications. So, as there are many thousands more applicants than jobs, how are we to choose who we bring to interview and who we reject? Simple: we ask a few questions. Your replies to these questions will determine whether or not you get asked to interview.

Now, it's your choice. You can whinge about the waste of your time that these questions represent and watch others go and get the jobs, or you can put some bloody effort in and give yourself a shot at a job.

The people my company employs all have a great deal more going for them than simply the minimum piloting qualifications. If you want to be one of them, you'll have to persuade people that there is more to you than an fATPL. You don't seem to have quite grasped that small point.

First of all i dont think justfying or explaining ambitions is a sign of intelligence or it should be a way for an 'HR Specialist ' to judge someone,anyone can bull**** and write things that they dont believe. Second, i think u see it from a different point of u,i see it as a wannabe pilot who has sent hundreds of applications as many other wanabes and i dont even get response in most of them,im lucky if i get a 'thank you but sorry...'response.wouldnt that make anyone less motivated to write essays on applications?
It's up to you. Do you want the job or not? Companies do not tend to reply to CVs. If you don't like that, tough. Most companies don't use HR people to filter applications; they tend to be filtered by the Flight Ops Department staff, who have a great many other things to do.
Third, where i come from, applications or cvs dont mean nothing,the only people who get jobs are 100% the people who have their father in the airline or who use a politician in order to get a job,simple as that
That is the biggest load of bolleaux I've heard in a long time!

Scroggs

[european champion]

'That is the biggest load of bolleaux I've heard in a long time!'

Maybe u r right,maybe u know better what is happening in my country that u probably never visited than me.

[Cutoff]

I managed to do all my flying and studying, from PPL, IMC, Multi, night, ATPLs, CPL / IR and MCC part time whilst holding a full time job (not flying), a mortgage and a wife. And I relish the essay type applications as it gives the candidate a chance to stand out and really demonstrate that they want to fly for a particular airline. It is this method that got me an interview and sim assessment, not an unsolicited letter and a cv.

I hope that there are many more that cannot be bothered to fill in an application that requires some thought as it gives us that can even more of a chance!!

[european champion]

African dude i agree with u about most of the things,i know companies put these questions in order to select better,who would want to read essays just for fun?
all im saying is that a)im not convinced that this is the best way to filter applicants b)i need to save time,whats wrong with this?
we r going away from the topic,the topic is not whether the airlines should ask these questions or not or whether some lazy people who claim to be extremely busy have time to write these essays or not.
the topic is how to save time,how to send the maximum amount of applications at the minimum time!
from what i have read in various forums there is books that prepare pilots for interviews,some other ones give instructions for cvs or cover letters...etc.
thats why i asked is there any book that has answers to these kind of questions?im sure im not the only one who would be intersted in knowing that,there is plenty of us who would like to know,each one for various reasons,some of us might be lazy,or too busy or maybe just want to read someone else's view so as to write something better,we all deserve a place in aviation.all these authors wouldnt exist if there was no people like me who seek their books,do u think these writers dont deserve an income after so many years of experience in aviation?

[Cutoff]

The other thing to bear in mind is that the answers you give in the application are discussed in the interview, so it is not wise to look at other answers and simply copy or adjust / ammend - or get someone else to answer them for you for that matter. It will soon become apparant if the answers are not yours.

I am very busy, but never too busy to fill out an application to an airline!

[The African Dude]

is there any book that has answers to these kind of questions? Maybe, but the scenario in my mind is this: The time you've spent thinking about where to find such books, researching them and writing on this thread comes to a total of 'x' hours, with nothing you can put on your application as a result. Without suggesting that your contribution to this board is invalid or unwelcome, surely you could have left the internet cable unplugged and got on with writing your own answers as a previous poster suggested?
The other factors with using pre-prepared, or modified, answers from books include:
- The possibility that your recruiters are aware of the books you use and recognise parts of your answers.
- The risk that you do not put across your own individual qualities.
- A likelihood, should you be invited to attend an interview and talk about your answers, that you won't have much to say about your impersonal answers.


we all deserve a place in aviation.WRONG!

all these authors wouldnt exist if there was no people like me who seek their books,do u think these writers dont deserve an income after so many years of experience in aviation?Yes, if they put in some effort for their reward - that's why you EARN money, as opposed to merely RECEIVING it. You wanna earn money? You have to put in some bloody effort, as Scroggs said.

While I do, again, empathise with your frustration, you also passed your commercial training (I assume) which itself required the same application and time and graft that you now need to apply in your search for a job.

I won't say any more, other than to suggest you 'work smart' with your applications rather that 'work hard'.. would the pro's of sending out more applications of lower quality be the 'smart' way? Your choice.

[Captain_Scooby]

Although I am waaaay waaaay down on the piloting career ladder, I thought my experience was a good one to share.

A while back, I applied for a sponsorship position with Britannia. The application form was massive, and there were, I believe, 4 open questions. I spent a total of about 12 hours working on those questions. Now that may not seem a lot, but when it takes 3 hours to come up with just a few paragraphs per question, you can imagine the frustration of trying to get it perfect.

Naturally, as is typical of the aviation industry, I got a letter back saying I had too many hours and that was that.

Still, I kept a copy of my form and when writing a covering letter recently, had a look through and was able to pick out a few experiences, traits, 'buzzwords', etc, that fitted quite nicely into the letter.

So dont look at the time required for these questions as a waste of your life. Be clever enough to keep copies, and sure enough the same questions will appear time and time again, and your answers will only require a bit of tweeking, or updating with new experiences, to be ready to go on the newest application.

You could throw a strop and shout about how its a stupid system. But you aint gonna change it. Ever. The recruitment teams set the hurdles and if you want a chance of a job, you've gotta jump them, time-consuming or not!

CS

[subsidence]

I have such a hard time finding answers to this kind of questions. My problem is, I just have nothing to tell. I`m a young guy, finished school, and right after that started my flight training. Basically I did in my life nothing else as studying and giving my best to achieve my goals(best graduation; averaged 97% in Exams with 100% GNAV, POF, M&B) Of course I attended some kind of social activities but I don`t have one hour of work experience.
Now I`m sitting here with a shiny new frozen ATPL and trying to find answers to those kind of questions, and telling about the decision making skills in a school bigband.
I know I have to improve my profile,and I already do, but it`s damn hard.

[scroggs]

'That is the biggest load of bolleaux I've heard in a long time!' Maybe u r right,maybe u know better what is happening in my country that u probably never visited than me.

According to your profile, you are from UK. If you are from elsewhere, why not tell us where this corrupt place is? As for never having been there, that may be true - but there are very few countries in the world I haven't been to!

Scroggs

[Pauliejet]

european champion, just a brief point. Exactly how did you decide that you deserve a place in aviation? I would not dispute that you've worked hard to study for and pass your exams. However, it doesn't sound to me as if you have the humility to carry out a flying role yet. Handling is important, situational awareness similarly, commercially astute..increasingly useful, and God knows we are all made to understand assertiveness......

...but if you can't learn from experienced people, and wind your neck in in the face of solid advice, dispensed for your benefit, then perhaps you may be better suited for an alternative career...

...You don't sound like a bad bloke, just frustrated, and that we all can understand, so before you pen a blunt response, take a moment of pause to think about what you're saying to this forum, and whether that attitude is similar to what you are projecting in an application, CV or interview.....

I wish you well with it.

[Alex Whittingham]

The essay questions fulfil three purposes.

(1) a basic literacy check

(2) a first level filter. You would be astonished how many pilots, when asked, for instance, to write a hundred to two hundred words on a situation they had encountered in which they had felt a need to question authority stating what the problem was, what they did about it and what they would now do differently seem to think it isn't important to follow instructions. They write 60 words, or three hundred, they don't say what they would now do differently, or they don't say what the initial problem was. Airlines employ HR people to go through each application with a tick sheet checking to see if each applicant has done exactly what was asked. If you think you don't need to follow instructions - oops, into the bin goes your application.

(3) they provide something to talk about at the interview stage. Don't make the stories up - you'll get caught out.

...and now it seems there is a fourth purpose. If you're too impatient to complete the form you won't bother applying.