King Air Type Ratings

[portsharbourflyer]

SSTR seems to be the topic of the month at the moment. Anyway while most of the SSTR thread are centered around 737, A320 ratings, does any one think there is any value in doing a Beech King Air Type rating?

[Danny_manchester]

I suppose it would be a great idea if one intended on flying a King ?. On the other hand, if not ............ i wouldn't bother :D.

[portsharbourflyer]

I think that is rather obvious.
This is not the only occasion Danny M has posted unintelligent answers. Better rephrase the question, is there much scope for employment on King Airs in the UK? of the UK opeators how many would actually operate it on a "multi" crew basis?

I suppose this would be a question better asked in the biz jet/ GA forum.

[Danny_manchester]

Thats highly unfair. I think you will find that i did actualy answer your question. You did not specify what the rating would be for? e.g. career, fun/pleasure, therefore you left youself open to answers like i gave. Now if you say:-

Is there much point in me getting a king rating to fly for an air-charter/air cargo. etc..

Now thats a totally different question than was asked first time around. So the ammended question DOES belong in the GA forum.

However why not search air charter companies on the yellow pages online, and look at their aircraft fleet .......... this will in turn tell you how many companies operate kings, from which you can contact the companies in question and ask directly. Nobody can tell you more on the state of air charter recruitment ......... than air charter companies. :ok:

Just ask, would you hire me with dar dar dar dar hours and a king TR?

They may ask you to send them a CV ......... with your attitude towards my completly valid previous post on this particular thread that ........... Forget the A4 sheets ............... stick with the back of a postage stamp. :ok:

[Meeb]

Any King Air operated under JAR ops for commercial use will have 2 crew. Gama are looking for around half a dozen such F/O's for their new Scottish Air Ambulance contract but due to the nature of the work I think they prefer some previous experience operating in a demanding environment. I would imagine most of their new hires will not have much more experience than right out of flight school however.

As for paying for a type rating, I think you will find that smaller operators are more interested in the person than the rating and therefore would be more keen to type rate the right person. Low cost airlines generally could not give a rats @rse about their employees so welcome anyone with the rating, and there must be about 20 times the 73's in the UK than B200's... :p

[unimuts]

portsharbourflyer,

A good question, but i think if you examine the many job adverts in the printed magazines and various web sites, this may answer your question for you.

If you wish to fly for an airline, then i think flying a single crew IFR aircraft is no good for unlocking your frozen ATPL. Type ratings are always expensive, always type rate on a multi crew aircraft is my best advice, that is if you are paying for it. This will get you towards a full atpl and jet experience and thus fall into the parameters the recruiters seem to want.

YES, It seems many airlines are trading experience for your ability to pay for a type rating and seemingly line experience too. This trade off might work in the short term, but i think it will come back to haunt them at a later date. While talking to an old instructor over the weekend I learn that a certain airline is taking on as many new graduates as it can get, and all with barely 200 hours. But why? Because they are all willing to pay up front for the type rating and line training and YES they are being bonded too for 18 months.

IF no type rating with hours on type, airlines want full ATPL, Multi-crew experience, Jet time( King air is only single crew, might be flown 2 crew but still only single crew a/c). So why spend money on something that will not unlock that atpl?

If you wish to operate in the business sector, corporate market then, yes, I think the investment would do you well, as long as you have a job prior to spending the money

You must look at your long term goal, spending over £10,000 for a king air type rating, I feel will serve well in experience, but not if you wish to join the airlines one day. Why ? Well, you still have to get that frozen atpl unfrozen somehow. So why have to do another type rating at a later date and fly 500 hours, doesn’t make sense.

Whatever the route you choose i wish you all well


Unimuts




:ok:

[5 RINGS]

As far as I can read in LASORS, ATPL subpart G1.2, JAR 23 A/C operated with 2 crews, are acceptable to the Authority.

Waiting for an official feeddback from [email protected] at the moment

[Meeb]

portharboursflyer... as you will no doubt realise, PPRuNe is full of people with opinions and not too much based on fact!

unimuts falls firmly into the first category... :rolleyes:

If an aircraft is required to be flown 2 crew by the UK CAA then they will honour those hours for ATPL licence issue, so that makes unimuts post completely pointless...

A jet airline will not be put of by B200 time, indeed it will be a bonus because you have 2 crew time, and on a turbo prop which is fairly high performance to boot.

BUT... Do not pay for a type rating!! :mad:

[Danny_manchester]

As this question remains, where can one get a king TR?

[portsharbourflyer]

As correctly pointed out the King Air is a single crew rated aircraft, now obviously insurance reasons mean a minimum of 700 hours would be required to operate single crew, however if the AOC and SOPs of a company prescribe operation of the aircraft on a multi crew basis, I think I am correct in thinking this would still count as multi crew time for unfreezing the ATPL. The King Air is however a very "affordable" type rating

I was recently turned down for a second officers position, so feel I have blown my only chance of getting a traditional training bond, now I find that part time instructing is just not building hours quickly enough and full time instructing is just not financially viable. Hence I am merely looking at ways of trying to progress, afraid to say the type rating route when you add the figures up looks quite enticing. Though I will probabably wait another 12 months before rushing into anything, but thanks for the replies everyone, certainly some thing to think on.

Danny,

King Air ratings are available at Bristol Flight Centre, Pilot Training College Moncton(Canada).

[GusHoneybun]

If an aircraft is certified single crew, but pressurised (like the King Air, or Citation CJ1) and is operated under public transport, it must have two crew.
If you are just postioning empty, then this can be done single crew.

Other aircraft that are single pilot but non pressurised, can be flown multi crew as long as the CAA approve this (loganair twotter for example).


All of the hours count towards your multi crew requirements for the issue of an ATPL. However, and this is the important bit, your ATPL skills test must be performed in a multi crew aircraft. No execptions, a King Air LPC will not get you a green licence.

As a result, as this is not technically a multi crew aircraft, you do not actually need a full ATPL to be captain. Only meet the minimum requirements for single crew IFR (700 hours).

Gawd bless the CAA

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

I reckon that the rating itself may well cost an arm and a leg. It was about 10K for the TR with Bristol. However, as everything was being done on the aicraft they were charging about 800 quid an hour for additional training; I'd bet you'd need some too. Also, if anyone is interested in using the King Air as a fast hour builder I suspect you'd be dissapointed. Most of the aircraft are operating charters and medivac flights which can be a bit sporadic on the hours. The implication is that it will take forever to get to the LHS. 700hrs does not qualify you to take command of a hot ship like this.

[Trent 900]

I would not pay for a King Air TR. As some people have correctly stated it is only a single crew a/c.
As far as I am aware there are two companies that operate king air's and can log from both left and right hand seat.
1, GAMA
2, Flight Precision. I was told this because I work for number 2.
Most operate with 2 crew, but only the guy in the left hand seat can log it.
If you want to buy a TR mate get either a jet or ATR not king air.

All the best

[unimuts]

Well.

I think as Trent 900 points out clearly, only aware of 2 companies with this ability to log multi-crew time, Perhaps under a dispensation.But for the majority of operators, it is a single crew aircraft. Fact. So wind that neck of yours in meebs.

I had flown many hours on the king air and not able to count them towards my muti-crew time. But i did not pay for the rating, so no problem.


King Air will not unlock the frozen atpl on your skills test.

Dont pay for a type rating is the bottom line.

But again all the best to you whichever route you choose.

Unimuts

[G-SPOTs Lost]

King Air Ratings

You would be better off with a Citation 500 Series rating, there is significantly more scope for work (especially if you use flight safety and have it put on a US PPL) and its a two crew A/C

Its also easier to fly once you get up to speed with the performance and it has more straightforward systems

With that license you can fly

500 (If there are any left in the UK)
501
550
551
Bravo
CItation V
Ultra
Encore

A lot of these are efis/fms/rvsm and high performance, if you get the license put on a FAA PPL/Multi/IR (which as a frozen ATPL holder involves only one 50 question paper with no met questions!! ) and a trip to a FSDO in the US, as well as your JAA license you will pick up work.

You will need to find it though.

The other thing is you will probably end up sat next to some hairy old git with a zillion hours in citations and you will learn an awful lot. Which is a whole lot more attractive than being at the pointy end of somebody elses multi million $ kingair thinking you knowwhat you are doing but not really being sure

If you act quickly you can stil pay for the rating in US$ and avoid the VAT and train in the UK.

PM me for more details

[angelorange]

Beware some Cessna Citations are SPA (Single Pilot Aeroplanes) under JAR: 525, 501, 551, 500SP and 550SP

see: http://www.jaa.nl/licensing/classtyperatings.html

For JAR ATPL issue you need an MPA (multi pilot Aeroplance) type rating.

Even the Be1900 is SPA even though it weighs more than a Jetstream 31 which is MPA due to the way the aircraft was certified!

The B200 is a fantastic aeroplane - there are around 6000 worldwide and most are operated 2 crew.

You can get an MCC exemption through 500 hours multi crew ops on a King Air - especially with a company like Flight Precision Ltd

The Calibration flying they do is highly demanding multi crew ops - eg: on a CAT3 ILS calibration down to 50 feet gear up at 180 KIAS, probably at night into Schipol R36R when everyone else is landing on 06, the FO is often talking to the laser tracker operator who's at the glidepath hut, ATC for co-ordination and calibration run requirements (protection of localiser etc), the Flight inspector (who moans if you are 4 feet off the centre line at 6 miles!) plus monitoring the PIC to make sure he's alert throughout and using those extra pair of eyes for lookout.

Dragonfly in Cardiff are also looking for 2 crew ops on King Airs. Titan does medicac work in a like new machine. AirServ and the UN use King Airs all over the world. There are lots of options - but go and see these people - don't just pay for a rating! Leave your VISA card at home! Much better for your skills and the safety of the industry to get a job - be bonded for a year or so and move on up the ladder with experience!