Denied Boarding by Air Canada after showing up on time -- then charged $400 to rebook [Archive]

RatherBeFlying

14th Dec 2005, 18:01

Our CEO is bouncing off the walls today -- when he's not happy; nobody's happy, especially when a major business deal has been put on hold.

He was booked to fly AC878 from YYZ to Zurich Dec. 13 at 1840 and arrived at 1645 to see a lineup snaking through the hall. AC passenger agents were going up and down the line asking for people going to Paris and Delhi and taking those people ahead of the line to get them on the plane on time.

Nobody was calling for Zurich passengers; so, he stayed in line. When he got to the checkin at 1755, he was informed the flight was closed and that he failed to respond to the call for passengers to Delhi! Not being an AC employee, our CEO did not know that the flight continued to Delhi and that the call for Delhi pax included Zurich pax.

He then lines up at the rebooking counter and at 1820 is airily informed that:[list=1] no AC pax ever have to stay in line for over an hour -- after having done just that:rolleyes:
he has to pay $400 to rebook:{[/list=1]I suspect that AC filled his seat with a Delhi bound standby or overbookee as AC certainly makes more money that way than by flying an empty seat from Zurich to Delhi :E

MarkD

15th Dec 2005, 01:55

RBF

has your CEO gone ex YYZ before? Until BA brought in e-check-in the queue was a nightmare to LHR (with lots of south Asians with huge plastic wrapped boxes). Now it's fast bag drop for me - probably as fast as a First/Club check-in!

The only time I e-checked in on AC I was hand luggage only so went directly to the gate with my home printed boarding pass but I believe a similar system to BA's is available to pax with bags.

Maybe this hardcharging CEO of yours should have asked the passing AC type "what about Zurich"?

http://www.aircanada.com/en/travelinfo/traveller/checkin/index.html

RatherBeFlying

15th Dec 2005, 11:19

MD

He'll be trying the web checkin today, but I do note that you still have to show up 2 hr. ahead of time to check your bags.

Next Question:

How do you find the Express Baggage Checkin lineup when the ginormous checkin hall is stuffed full of people:confused:

OZcabincrew

15th Dec 2005, 13:02

how come whoever booked it for him (ie secretary) didn't find this out at the time of booking and inform him? and yes, another thing would be to actually ask ground staff.

I love it when you get passengers booked on an 1830 flight and turn up at 1825 and hit the roof because they can't get on the flight when they arrived 5 minutes early! "The flight doesn't leave until 1830, i'm here at 1825, why can't i get on the flight!!!!????"

What a sad person he is to make everyone elses life miserable if he's having a bad day!

:mad:

you gotta laugh

RatherBeFlying

15th Dec 2005, 13:30

OCC

AC requires pax to show up 2 hr. ahead of time for checkin on international flights -- he was 5 min. short of that.

He has remarked that if any AC rep had so much as whispered "Zurich" within his hearing he would have jumped at the change to bypass the line.

He wasn't taking his frustrations out on anybody, but it did put a damper on the day.

The other issue is that AC knows exactly how many pax are booked; so, why didn't they put sufficient checkin staff on duty?

striparella

15th Dec 2005, 20:52

^ Lol you make running an airport sound so easy!

It sounds like the system worked to me - AC pulled out pax from the queue so they wouldn't miss their flight.

Yes, maybe AC should have shouted "Delhi via Zurich", but at the same time your boss should have used some initiative and asked about his flight.

Five minutes really makes all the difference at an airport!

RatherBeFlying

15th Dec 2005, 23:40

So how's somebody going to Zurich the first time supposed to know the flight continues to Delhi and that he should be listening for that as well as Zurich:confused:

rsoman

16th Dec 2005, 08:13

Good for AC that its staff did not call out "pax for ZRH" instead. There would have been a riot (Although RBF's boss and RBF would have been happy).

I agree with RBF that the correct call indeed should have been "ZRH and DEL". Incidentally the DEL flight went non stop till very recently, The ZRH stoppver was only introduced only a month or two back.

Globaliser

16th Dec 2005, 10:22

RatherBeFlying: So how's somebody going to Zurich the first time supposed to know the flight continues to Delhi and that he should be listening for that as well as ZurichI think that most experienced pax who are standing in the queue would be likely to use their initiative to ask the queue combers about the ZRH flight, even if they didn't know that it was the same flight as the DEL.

Especially when time was ticking on: the OP's boss didn't get to the check-in desk until -45 minutes. The alarm bells would have been ringing in my head long before that time.

Now, I know we all have to start somewhere, and we all learn from experience. That, I suspect, is what the OP's boss will probably have to chalk this up to. He'll never stand mute again, and neither will any of us who read this thread!

slim_slag

16th Dec 2005, 10:30

If this was a lo-cost carrier, we would have all the hi-cost employees on here telling us 'what do you expect, you should have booked with a decent carrier who have discretion and who know how to look after their customers'.

Er, but Air Canada isn't a loco, it's one of these so called full service airlines. Doesn't this just show they really are essentially all the same?

RatherBeFlying

16th Dec 2005, 13:16

The boss showed up three hours early this time around and did get on.

Interestingly the checkin agent let him know he was smart to show up early as the flight was overbooked -- a suspicion we share on his first attempt.

lexxity

16th Dec 2005, 13:59

The other issue is that AC knows exactly how many pax are booked; so, why didn't they put sufficient checkin staff on duty?

Desk availability, staff on duty, etc, etc

But seriously he should have spoken up, most airports these days are reminiscent of the day of judgement so speaking up does help. I know when we've had huge queues that shouting pax for wherever doesn't always work and a voice asking will always get an instant result and help.

Saying that though, I think AC should have cut him a little slack and maybe waived the change fee or reduced it. Using descretion often buys loyalty in the long run.

Lexxity - not a LOCO employee.

agent x

17th Dec 2005, 19:55

Why oh why do they never speak up if they think they are going to miss a flight??!! Its always the same, 'oh no i'll stand in this line until 18:25 even though i know my flight is leaving at 18:30 and no one else around me is going to my destination!' Then they go mental and blame every man and his dog when they get refused! 'Well the airport cleaner told me to stand in this line..blah blah blah!! At the end of the day each passenger should make sure that they make themselves known if they are stood at the back of a line and not just stand there with their mouths open and hands in their pockets!!

Agent x - not a LOCO employee either!:ok:

MarkD

18th Dec 2005, 05:50

RBF

did he use express check/fast bag drop?

Rollingthunder

18th Dec 2005, 06:07

This guy apparently has no presence of mind and no initiative. How the hell did he get to CEO?

manintheback

18th Dec 2005, 08:50

This boss of yours is a joke.

Why didnt he learn all the possible stop--offs of this plane on his route just in case?.

Why didnt he stand up shouting in a large crowd with words along the lines of 'Do you know who I am?'.

Heck, did he think he was a customer or something and expect some service, like someone calling the flight to Zurich?

Avman

18th Dec 2005, 09:09

This guy apparently has no presence of mind and no initiative. How the hell did he get to CEO?

Where I come from, dear boy, those are the very attributes you need to be a CEO. :E

YOWGirl

18th Dec 2005, 23:50

I don't know many CEOs who fly economy class, especially at the lower tier fare classes that charge for rebooking.

RatherBeFlying

19th Dec 2005, 14:05

So if I'm flying from Toronto to Los Angeles and the flight is continuing to Auckland, I should know to pipe up if there's a call for pax to Auckland:}

Frankly if I'm hearing the queue combers calling other destinations, the obvious implication is that there is no concern for my destination and that not bothering them unnecessarily will expedite their getting everybody on their flight

Mind you, from now on I'll be checking my flight number with the first queue comber I see now that I know you can't rely on their announcing all the destinations they're pulling out of the queue. Unfortunately everybody doing this will bog down that process, but it's now plain that that's what each pax has to do.

A CEO of a business with some 10 employees generally gets there by being careful with cash flow.

Anyway he's still in Europe and is a bit more comfortable as he just got reunited today with his baggage which apparently continued to Delhi:mad:

lexxity

19th Dec 2005, 18:02

Frankly if I'm hearing the queue combers calling other destinations, the obvious implication is that there is no concern for my destination and that not bothering them unnecessarily will expedite their getting everybody on their flight

Unless time was getting tight.:rolleyes:

spanishflea

19th Dec 2005, 22:16

A nice long letter to AC head office when he gets back citing his terrible experience, and informing them that neither him, nor any of his employees will be using AC again should do the trick with them.

If it doesnt generate a substantial refund, then really dont use them again, personally this has not yet happened to me, although admmitadley not with AC.

agent x

20th Dec 2005, 13:19

A nice long letter to AC head office when he gets back citing his terrible experience, and informing them that neither him, nor any of his employees will be using AC again should do the trick with them.

Dont count on it. How many people say 'im never flying with xyz ever again so there!!' when something doesn't go their way and its usually..as in this case...the fault of the passenger i.e not having an ounce of self initiative. AC wont be interested or bothered that they are gonna lose a handfull of cheap tickets from them...you can count on that.

Agent x:ok:

Globaliser

20th Dec 2005, 19:23

agent x: Dont count on it. How many people say 'im never flying with xyz ever again so there!!' when something doesn't go their way and its usually..as in this case...the fault of the passenger i.e not having an ounce of self initiative. AC wont be interested or bothered that they are gonna lose a handfull of cheap tickets from them...you can count on that. I agree with that. And a long letter is less likely to be read properly by customer relations people than a short one.

However, a letter that might have an impact is one that says something like "Unfortunately, I fell foul of this particular situation (described), and I have a suggestion for improving matters in the future: Queue combers should state the intermediate destination [ZRH] as well as the final destination [DEL] in case there are other pax who, like me, didn't know the final destination of my flight."

"Might", not "will", but it seems to me to be the only type of letter that could produce a positive response, even if it is only a sincere apology rather than a standard form letter.

spanishflea

20th Dec 2005, 19:49

I agree with you both, thats what I expected first time I sent a letter of complaint, but I recieved an equally long response from the customer services manager giving me detailed answers to all the points I had raised. Since then I have yet to recieve a response I have been dissatisfied with when writing to airlines.

In this case there is a clear breakdown of communications, IMHO AC were in the wrong, and depending on the quality of their customer service, based on my past experience in the UK, I would expect at least some kind of an explanation or apology.

10secondsurvey

29th Dec 2005, 22:57

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

I just don't understand why some of the posters here work in airlines (a service industry - no sniggering!) and yet seem to hate serving punters. So, this guy goes to Airport, the line combers don't call out his destination (Delhi and Zurich? - I wouldn't have made the link?), and he is somehow then automatically percieved as some dim-witted jumped up arrogant git - just because he is a business man. I'm in business, but I'm not a jumped up arrogant git - in fact I'm pretty much like any other air traveller, and even though I fly really often, the same thing could have happened to me. In my experience the opinions expressed by some previous posters exemplify the belief system of thick no-hopers who hate anyone who has achieved anything in their life?

I ask the question again, why are you working in a service industry??

The Airline was at fault, no excuses accepted. This guy should most definitely never use this airline again if at all possible - they sound pretty pathetic. In fact when he got to the check in desk, the staff should have apologised profusely for treating him in such a shoddy way, and upgraded him. It was the Airlines fault- unless passengers are now expected to be telepathic.

zed3

30th Dec 2005, 11:32

10secondsurvey..... my thoughts entirely , and I do work in aviation .....(work?) I PAY for my seat and expect ..... service , is the wrong word but you know what I mean .

lexxity

30th Dec 2005, 13:42

10second, I agree that the airline should have been a bit more leniant with the rebooking charges (as a goodwill gesture), but it is still the passengers responsibility to make sure he is on time for his flight. Obviously this gentleman was on time but stuck in a queue, all he had to do was ask the customer service agent who was calling out flights a question. It is really not that difficult to do. That is the point here.

Sometimes you just have to take responsibility for your own actions.

I do work for an airline.

rsoman

3rd Jan 2006, 09:42

Hey RBF

Educate ur boss to take a moment to look at the flight departure boards scattered around the airport first! Most airports show the multiple destinations of the flights (if it is a multi sector flight) against the same flight number. I have seen it in LHR, in FRA, in BKK (where I once boarded a flight to Madras which was continuing to Bangalore and Hyderabad in India) and after hearing you weep about how your CEO was shafted, I paid a close look at what my teeny weeny home airport (in comparison to your YYZ) was showing as well, when I was there a couple of days back. There was an Air India Express flight shown as arriving from "Dubai via Cochin" and the Departure board showed flights of the same airline going to Abudhabi via Muscat and another separate Gulf Air flight (not a code share) also showing a departure of "Abudhabi via Muscat".

So instead of taking out your ire on AC and its staff (and the way the staff turnover is happening in this industry there are a lot of greenhorns around - and the greenest are usually given the task of "floor walking" in most airlines), it might be worthwhile for some people to spend a moment taking a look at the flight departure boards instead of being on the mobile to finish of all the worlds business as half the business people seem to do (not saying your boss is one of them) .

Cheers

plt_aeroeng

3rd Jan 2006, 21:50

Another example of the "new" Air Canada and its attitudes. (I note that an AC pilot complained in the Canada forum that there is staff bitterness that they all took big pay cuts, yet management is rewarding itself with multi-million dollar stock payouts.)

From the first post, it appears he actually made it to check-in some 45 minutes before flight. That should be sufficient time to make it through security and to the gate. It's appalling that the airlines can't make allowances for these circumstances. If he is given a boarding pass and told that it is contingent on him making it to the gate, he just might have gotten there.

I'm also tired of the constant overbooking scrambles at the gate, which may have a lot to do with this story. The newspaper said recently that AC had over 80% load factor system wide in December, which is so high that they must be overbooking a high proportion of flights.

By contrast, WestJet, which managed a load factor of over 70% on generally short haul routes, advertises that it never overbooks. If AC loses its near monopoly on international travel from Canada it will be vulnerable to any airline which rediscovers passenger service as a discriminator.

In the last year I retired, so have reduced from a 2-3 time per month airport agony to an occasional one, and am quite glad about that. Air travel has gotten so much worse over the last five years, without a significant drop in fares.

striparella

3rd Jan 2006, 23:03

I think everyone here has forgotten about Airport Brain Syndrome.

Where perfectly good, intelligent people turn into complete idiots the second they walk into an airport.

It's a classic case.

rsoman

4th Jan 2006, 11:21

Go to England, get a National Express bus ticket to Milton Keynes and board from Golders Green. You do that, and you will learn how to know where your next flight on any airline to anywhere from anywhere will go- BECAUSE- You will have learned how to open your mouth and ask (or check in their website beforehand where your buses final destination is beforehand - the one which appears on the destination board along with the bus number) !

NB: this was three years back - now I dont know if they have the same terminals as they have at Victoria Coach Station which lists all the stops - but even then you have to look at the display board first !!!

I agree with "striparella" , "FREEQUENT FLYER" outside the airport, "FIRST TIME FLYER" once inside!!!!

And by the way an informed guess on the loads on the flight in question - 80% DEL 20% ZRH! Or am I being toogenerous (on the ZRH loads!).

manintheback

4th Jan 2006, 19:20

I think everyone here has forgotten about Airport Brain Syndrome.

Where perfectly good, intelligent people turn into complete idiots the second they walk into an airport.

It's a classic case.

Then Air Canada should hire better people.

YOWGirl

4th Jan 2006, 21:56

Reluctantly, I must agree with striparella.

As much as I hate to diss my Frequent Flyer Brethern (and Cistern), it amazes me how seemingly competent intelligent biz class regulars turn into slack jawed yokels seemingly unable to read from the departures monitor without moving their lips and displaying deer-in-the-headlights expressions at the thought of more than 2 people ahead of them in the Gold checkin lineup. Particularly stunning when recognizing tech execs boggled by the concept of the kiosk checkin.

slim_slag

5th Jan 2006, 08:34

Used to work in a burger bar and you would be surprised how many people would have trouble ordering a cheeseburger and fries. No doubt some of these worked for an airline.

So if we are known to be as ignorant as some of you claim, surely that means the airline (and it's customer service orientated employees) should try even harder to make sure we are looked after at the airport? So stop blaming those who pay your wages and improve your procedures.

rsoman

5th Jan 2006, 08:52

Hire Better People! Train Employees Better!
Well, next time you high power executives decided on chopping off the training budget before anything else the moment you want to save a few dollars, or decide to outsource some services likewise, then remember the end result can be something what MR RBF Boss experienced!
Sometimes it can be rather more serious, like one of Alaska's aircraft having a hole opening up in the fuselage while on the air (caused by a ramp incident by an employee of a subcontractor!)
Something to think about? eh?

lexxity

5th Jan 2006, 10:05

Then Air Canada should hire better people.

As I've said before, it goes both ways. If you are intelligent enough to buy a ticket then you should be intelligent enough to ask questions if your flight time is getting near.

Air Canada or any airline these days just does not have the "people", better or otherwise to ask every person in a queue when their flight is, those staff they do have should be checking people in and not floor walking.

Sorry Manintheback but you are wrong on this point.

manintheback

5th Jan 2006, 11:59

Air Canada or any airline these days just does not have the "people", better or otherwise to ask every person in a queue when their flight is, those staff they do have should be checking people in and not floor walking.
Sorry Manintheback but you are wrong on this point.

The initial point was ACan not calling out the correct destinations of the aircraft thus confusing the passenger. How is it acceptable for an airlines own employees to not know where their aircraft are going?

A business is there to provide the service, not for the passenger to demand it or be misled.

And maybe to underline. T4 at Heathrow the day that loon in Manchester walked onto the apron with a brief case causing a major security flap throughout the UK. Queue at T4 for security stretched outside. BA staff walked up and down shouting out planes and escorting PAX through security including me - I got my flight.

BA are now making lots of money and have had a massive rise in their share price over the last 18 months or so.
Air Canada have been on the edge of bust more than once in recent times and are in poor financial health now.

Go figure why that might be.

If you dont look after your customers, someone else will.

agent x

5th Jan 2006, 13:15

BA are now making lots of money and have had a massive rise in their share price over the last 18 months or so

How many routes have they chopped out of MAN recently...including Rome i think? :E

As for the comment about AC not knowing where their aircraft is going what twadle!! Isn't it common sense to know where your plane is headed BEFORE you get on whether there is a transit point or not???! But then, I guess not...goes hand in hand with.....

"what do you mean it's not an e-ticket route??! I booked this 10 months ago (and never thought to ask where my tickets were)...oh look its says Paper Ticket on the itinerary i never read! "

"huh my passport is expired??!!"

"how was I supposed to know what the baggage allowance was??!! (looks at ticket that says 20kgs)...has 84kgs.

People who travel should learn to take responsibility for themselves and their own actions. Yes the staff are there to provide Customer Service...not to baby, molly coddle and spoon feed each and every last piece of information into the passengers from the second they arrive to the second they step on the aircraft!! Aren't they making information screens big enough or what is it? OOh I know Lady Lexxington....lets put a limitless age restriction on the unaccompanied minor service so a member of staff can stick a nice badge on their suit so that everyone knows they are super special, makes sure they get from A to B wiv out twipping up or scwayping their ickle knees and hold their hand all the way there !!!!!

Agent x

manintheback

5th Jan 2006, 14:09

How many routes have they chopped out of MAN recently...including Rome i think? :E

Eh? - Whats your point?

As for the comment about AC not knowing where their aircraft is going what twadle!! Isn't it common sense to know where your plane is headed BEFORE you get on whether there is a transit point or not???! But then, I guess not...goes hand in hand with.....

er - well if you read the thread starters original statement, the Pax knew where they were going, AC just 'forgot' to mention it

Now I must admit I also had to consider this, and do you know - when I check my ticket and I'm flying to say Zurich, I expect the ticket to say er Zurich...... remarkeable. Oddly I've never considered it might end up in Delhi. But then I'm obviously brainless.

Yes the staff are there to provide Customer Service

precisely - my definition of service includes calling out the correct destinations of a plane - obviously yours isnt. And given Air Canadas financial status - well go figure

enuff said

agent x

5th Jan 2006, 14:19

precisely - my definition of service includes calling out the correct destinations of a plane

but earlier you say;

er - well if you read the thread starters original statement, the Pax knew where they were going, AC just 'forgot' to mention it

..but the AirCan staff were calling out the correct destination, was it or was it not going to Delhi?

Read this bit again.....

People who travel should learn to take responsibility for themselves and their own actions. Yes the staff are there to provide Customer Service...not to baby, molly coddle and spoon feed each and every last piece of information into the passengers from the second they arrive to the second they step on the aircraft!! Aren't they making information screens big enough or what is it? OOh I know Lady Lexxington....lets put a limitless age restriction on the unaccompanied minor service so a member of staff can stick a nice badge on their suit so that everyone knows they are super special, makes sure they get from A to B wiv out twipping up or scwayping their ickle knees and hold their hand all the way there !!!!!

Its always someone elses fault never the passenger..ohhh nooo....the passenger is always right. YEH!

Does someone want a special badge aswell manintheback....?

lexxity

5th Jan 2006, 15:04

The initial point was ACan not calling out the correct destinations of the aircraft thus confusing the passenger. How is it acceptable for an airlines own employees to not know where their aircraft are going?

I don't recall saying anything about the staff not knowing where their a/c was going and I am not going to get in an argument about who is and isn't making money, that is for another thread. Mearly to say that sometimes you just have to speak up.