Is 38 way too old?

[PeterDublin]

Hello
I am 38 IT professional with no prior experience in aviation, other than hobby. Tired and fed up of my job I am thinking about changing to aviation field. I realize it takes money and effort. My question is at my age do I still stand a chance to gain employement?? it doesnt have to be an airline, buisness jets are fine.If there is a chance still,what path should I follow? modular?
I appreciate any advice or personal experiences in the field
Peter

[Flypuppy]

Check out the Reference Thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=131649)

Most of your questions will be answered there.

[Fish Out of Water]

Had a mate who started an integrated course at 36. Still 3 years has no job - 150k for the worse too! Really good bloke and would make an excellent tprop pilot rather than 22y/o's that'll stay for 6 months.

Up to you though, some get it some don't - just be careful with your money and see through the false promises and BS that the schools feed you with.:ok:

[Send Clowns]

And I know a chap who finished courses at 52 and walked straight into the right seat of an F27. 38 is not drastically late, especially in this state of the industry. You might be the oldest in your class, but quite possibly not. I have taught people well over 40.

[jerezflyer]

I am 35 and, like you, serious about a career change from construction project management. I am just about PPL, and the way I think I will be going is to become a flying instructor. Basically, take the minimum risks and do the CPL ground + CPL flight + FI course, then concentrate on instructing at weekends. I estimate I can make CPL+FI in 2 years - this makes me 37, going on 38. This may not allow a career change, but I can adopt the dual role of project manager/flying instructor, with a bit of aerial work thrown in. Keeps the family and bank account relatively happy in the process.

I have also considered going for airline pilot level, however the returns compared to the investment in time and money, bearing in mind age just don't stack up. What's the point of doing ATPL ground, CPL, IR, ME, MCC, FI, then not getting a job as an airline pilot?? (by that I mean cargo turboprop FO at best) . I am of the opinion to train for what you will have a good chance at success.

Just sharing my views, becuase believe me I have thought long and hard about this. From what I hear, most of the time someone in their late thirties with low hours have very slim chances at getting an airline job.

Sorry, forgot, also add to the list of airline pilot qualifications a very expensive type rating which you will have to pay for yourself with no guarantees whatsoever......

[aztec25]

Encouraged by what Send Clowns said. I'm 52 and so don't think 38 is old :-) I'd love to walk into a RHS anywhere but realistically I think I've a better chance of doing CPL.FI and becoming a 'career' PPL instructor albeit a shorter career than most. Am taking a year out to do it. Passed my first 8 ATPL exams last month, hopefully the next 6 in March and the the fun bit - though where to do the CPL is causing me some grief!!

I would dearly love to do an IR but something tells me that would be a waste of money at my age.

I wish I was 38 :-)

Good luck

Az

[Send Clowns]

I'm sure my boss would be delighted to take your money, Aztec :p

Good luck with the final 6.

Jerez

I understand that many of the less mainstream airlines are less worried about age now. Most pilots stay less than 5 years with them anyway, so why should they care, as long as you are under 55? With a pilot shortage rapidly developing, those that discriminate only increase their own costs as they hire from a smaller pool. Some no longer ask you to pay the type rating either. It's the way the business goes. In 5 or 6 years time it'll be different, but the good times are coming.

[aerbus]

hi,
Have a friend that's about 38/39. Has just recently finished on an integrated course and will be starting early nest year with BA on the B737 at LGW!!!

[RoosterBooster]

Mate, go fo it. Just make sure you're really committed. Make use of all your time. Take note from Jerezflyer, his approach is sensible. Enjoy the process and take each step as it comes.

Sometimes you've got to make your own luck.

Keep at it mate.

RB

[jerezflyer]

Take note from Jerezflyer, his approach is sensible Thanks RB - gives me some piece of mind that my "mental w****g" on becoming a professional pilot follows some logical path!!!

PeterDublin:

Being in a full time job as I am, with specific holiday periods (I have 25 working days a year) the time aspect is just as important as the money side of things. Overspending holidays and having periods of income loss is unacceptable to me, in addition to not being financially viable. As a practical example, the way I intend to try and get around this problem is to borrow the following years holiday, say if I need 8 weeks in one year to complete a CPL+FI.

For people in our position the only viable choice is modular: only go integrated if you win the lottery (seriously!!)

My educated guess is that you could probably do CPL+FI in one year, then do an IR before the 3 year exam limit expires using another years holiday (IR can be done in 4 weeks, at least in Spain).

One step at a time, that way you will be managing the risks better.

Hope this helps!!!

[king rooney]

The mandatory retirement age for a pliot is either 65 or 60 as far as I know, so this guy has at least 20 odd years of useful service left in him.

Shouldn't therefore be an issue, should it?

[powdermonkey]

Hi PeterDublin,
I am 36 ( nearly 37) and am only half way through ATPLs. Estimate to be finished all ratings and licences by time I am 38 ( and maybe a few months). I am not worried about my age, airlines need pilots! May not get a rhs on an A320 or 737 straight away, maybe an ATR flying regional for a while. So what? Will eventually get the job that I want. People older than you have done it, if you can take the finacial risk, go for it. Go modular and minimise the cost, be clever and don't waste time. It is a slog but if it was easy everyone would be doing it!! I don't regret it and THERE IS NO GOING BACK!! The disapointment would be too hard to bear, and besides, best not to doubt too much, just have to keep working at it and hope that it will all fall into place. Going modular gives you the step by step approach which allows you to evaluate each step and then decide whether to carry on to the next level... without blowing a stack of cash all in one go.
Best of luck whatever you decide

PM

[High Wing Drifter]

Peter,

I'm 38 and an IT prof too. Regardless of what seems to be said here about age, face to face chin wags with line pilots about the age issue seems to be much more positive and upbeat, although some I spoke to are unhappy with working conditions. The watchword does seem to be flexibility though. I too am most interested in biz jets, that maybe a bit of a long shot though...at least initially. I would settle for BA if the terms suited me :D

Seriously, I am willing to be very flexible, but I will not pay for a type rating, bonding doesn't bother me in the least.

I am doing all my training weekends only. I timed my Ground School so that one set of exams were near the beining of the year. That meant I could carry saved up holiday over to the new year (their rule was the carried over holiday had to be used up by March). Beware, my part time CPL took three times longer than anticipated for more or less min time training for a variety of the usual reasons plus one heaviliy booked instructor. Don't bank on finishing in the theoretical schedule.

FWIW, it does seem to me that, in general, IT bods (amongst others) find the ground school reasonably straight forward.

[PeterDublin]

Thanks a lot for all replies
I think I needed all that encouragment. The best thing is to treat it as a hobby I will start my ppl in Dublin in january and go from there, of course it will be modular way. I am not sure what should be a next step after ppl will be achieved? I hope it shouldnt take longer than 2 years,and lets pray that demand will be there:)
It would be good to keep in touch with some of you guys that are in the same boat, might be good for networking :)
Best of luck to everybody
Thanks again
Peter

[powdermonkey]

PeterDublin

If you do your PPL in Dublin, I take it you will go to Weston, and more than likely NFC!
If you train with NFC, beware!! They are a busy school with a not as many instructors as they used to have....lots went to the airlines over the past few years. My personal experience was as follows ( and lots of people I spoke to said same):
I ended up with many different instructors who although very nice,WERE NOT FOLLOWING MY PROGRESS!. Everytime I got into an aircraft, I was asked what stage I was at, by a different instructor, sometimes by the same instructor. YOU MUST DRIVE YOUR OWN TRAINING. Get the Trevor Thom books or JeremyPratt Books(especially the PPL1 flying training book which contains all 18 PPL training excerices, which are well illustrated).
STUDY EACH OF YOUR LESSONS BEFORE YOU GO FLYING IT, this will save you time and money and will give you a good picture of where you are in your training. Try and stick with the one instructor. You can do your ground school in Bolton street or at weston. I did mine at Weston, but not with NFC, so I don't know what the standard is like for the gnd school. On the whole, they are busy and seem to loose track of your progress and this can get very frustrating( my past experience, things may have changed?)
All I am saying is that your PPL is very much in your hands, take it seriously and WASTE NO TIME....it took me nearly 3years on and off and that was my own fault, it was a big waste of money.
Get it done, concentrate and try not to leave too many gaps during your training as this will mean that invariably you end up going back over things. There is always the FAA option and coming back to convert to JAA PPL.

After your PPL, launch into your ATPLs, distance learning.
You have options here: NFC, would not recommend! IF you can go for 3weeks to the UK (twice) go and do it with Bristol or Oxford, as the level of support is good, or you can look at PTC in Waterford, which means doing your exams in Dublin but your ground school in Waterford ( they use Naples manuals). IF you can take 7months off, you can always go at it full time but not in Ireland, this option is not open to us. A school environment is much better, AS IT IS HARD ON YOUR OWN. As far as working full-time during ATPLS, I COULD NOT DO IT!! Too much to learn for me, I could not cope with a days work and 4 hrs of study at night.
The quoted 3hrs of study a day is B***S***!!!!!! Unless you are a super genius with the memory of 10 very bright elephants.

After that I can give you no other advice as that is as far as I got.

PS you have two other options for PPL at Weston. Skytrace, who are PTC in Waterford, teach PPL ( could be good) and Flightwise ( one instructor) but I imagine you will get continuation in both those schools. Talk to all of them and make up your own mind.

Weston in itself is a great place, I love going out there and it is developing all the time, with improving facilities, increasing jet traffic etc.

Regardless of airline training, if you love flying, do the PPL, you will not regret it, it is a wonderful achievement and you will feel great when you get handed your licence. Remember, it's in your hands, BE EFFICIENT in your training and do your best to minimise the costs by wasting no time and by being prepared.

ENJOY ENJOY ENJOY
Feel free to PM me
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