A STOL aircraft for DRC

[Stratocaster]

Hello,


I read quite a lot in the books but to complete my research on the subject I'd like to hear the opinion of "real" people...

The aircraft (to be used privately in DRC) should meet the following criterias:
- more or less 1 ton (2200 lbs) for the pax and beauty cases
- taking-off/landing in about 200m (600 ft) on every type of surface
- spare parts, bits and pieces readily available
- a Playstation/DVD player at every seat would be a plus :p

It goes without saying that it must be reliable, cheap to operate and easy to maintain.

It seemed to me that the Caravan, the PC-6B and the An-14 should be considered. I must admit I've got a bad feeling about the An-14 but if you feel I'm wrong don't hesitate to correct me.

Many thanks in advance !

[Sammie_nl]

Well, just scrap the An-14, me things that the last time that aircraft flew was about a decade or two ago. They can only be found in junkyards and exhibitions nowadays.

If you want to consider a Russian aircraft, try the An-2, older but you won't need spares, just a big hammer. But doubt that they are much available in DRC.

Good luck though

[P68BRAVO]

An 2 there are a lot for sell were I am .If you need one let me know .
Another airplane to consider is the Partenavia P68 ,I have done over 1000 hours on the P68 in DRC in the Kivu region ,based in Bukavu.

[Stratocaster]

Sammie,

Thanks for your reply. What bothers me is that the An-14 is a piston aircraft that has been replaced since by the An-28 (with turbines). Even though the An-28/M-28 is probably still supported by its Polish manufacturer, I guess that engine reliability and parts availability must be a nightmare. Or am I totally wrong on this one?


P68B,

Thanks... but actually no, thanks. An-2 is too big (radial engine), P68 is too small. I mentioned 1 ton for the pax, bowling balls, Steinway grand piano and palimino horses, and I really need that ton (+/- 200 kg).

[Sammie_nl]

Although no expert on the matter, I don't think that Antonov will support the M-28, and PZL will support the An-28. I do think there is quite a difference in them, ecspecially the engines and avionics, the things were you want to be sure to have spares. The M-28 isn't very common in Africa, the An-28 is used more often, but I don't know how well its supported by Antonov or any private maintance company. Its also a fair bit larger then the PC-6 and Caravan. With the An-28 your getting closer towards the Let-410 and Twotter class.

[Treetopflyer]

Well, as far as the Caravan is concerned, you might as well forget it altogether. 200 meters is about the distance it takes for it to got from 0 to 30 knots, i.e. it is not a STOL plane by any means.

I guess for such a short field and a ton payload, there are not many alternatives to the DHC6 and the PC6, on the Western side of aviation at least.

And who would want to bring "bowling balls, a Steinway grand piano and palimino horses" to such a s:mad:thole anyway?

-- TTF.

[Kopeloi]

The list of fixed wing airplanes in that category is not very long. If you operate from 200 meter long runways I can only wish you only good luck. AN2 is maybe only type able to do it, but as you said its "too big" for you.

[Coleman Myers]

Convert an AIRVAN ?.

[Stratocaster]

I'm not really interested in aircraft from Eastern Europe. Ok, it's mostly based on pre-conceived ideas about reliability and operating costs, but if you can prove me wrong, "I'm all ears".

On paper the PC-6 seems to be okay. Any opinion or feedback about the PC-6?

Thanks!

[FlyItLikeARental]

Strat my bru, in 200m with a ton? eish, considered a Mi-17 Helo yet? At least the cabin is cavernous enough to turn into an impromptu opera house with adjoining disco/playstaion park...:}

On the more serious side, Dornier228 or DHC-6. 228 cheaper to run according to my sources, and will get airborne in about 400-600m with your payload. I'm sure we will be able to organise a can opener to get the Steinway in..

Let us know if you find anything.

Flr

[B200Drvr]

PZL now make a version of the AN-28 with P&W PT6's, not sure of the - # but saw it flying in Indonesia.
As for the PC 6, it is a machine of note, and there is not much it cant do with the right driver, however therein lies a problem. It is not that easy to get a porter driver who knows how to fly the machine properly, and it is less forgiving than Pontius Pilot with a rookie at the controls.

[steamchicken]

I wasn't aware they maintained Antonovs in Africa...just used them up!

[alexmcfire]

I say go for the upgraded AN-3, the AN-2 has poor air-con and fuel economy compared. See
http://www.rbs.ru/vttv/99/firms/Polyot/e-an-3.htm

[Ndegi]

"(+/-200kg)" .......has anyone considered the 300hp Islander (800kg) or the Trislander. both have a good history on short strips in PNG and also parts of Africa?

[kiwiblue]

Have u considered the Britten Norman BN-2A Islander... awesome (if noisy) wee machine! If it'll fit in the door the wee beastie will fly with it. In real terms they're an accountants dream to operate. Only number you need to remember is 65KIAS -everything happens there, except the cease and desist committing aviation speed of 39 KIAS (incidentally also Vmca) and exceptionally reliable.

Worth a look, certainly far more so than the P68 previously mentioned

[angelorange]

But check the brakes on the Islander! And don't forget any heavy landings in one will damage the main wing spar!

Have a look at this brand new STOL machine designed for Africa and Alaskan outback - much better than a C208 Caravan and lot sof room for Mountain bikes and the like! : The KODIAK

http://www.questaircraft.com/specifications.htm

PT6 powered, 10 seater with 700 foot T/O roll 190KIAS cruise, 47gph, over 1000nm range with 1hour reserve.

Already ordered by relief organisations for UN work etc - soon to be one in Zambia and Botswana

[kiwiblue]

Hmmm, I'm afraid I have to beg to differ Angelorange...

After several years operating the BN2 it strikes me that only excessive and inappropriately careless use of the brakes leads to that particular problem. One-man one-machine, 2-years without a need to ever change a brake pad. I'll let that speak for itself. Obviously, not taxiing intentionally through standing water with hot brakes will help the longevity of the pads too.

As to the wing spar damage you infer... I believe that particular variety of 'heavy landing' is more commonly referred to as a 'crash'! The Islander is a strong (probably over-engineered) rugged and reliable airframe. The gear legs are massively strong, and a sufficiently 'heavy' (CRASH) landing will lead to wing-spar 'damage'. One photo I have seen was after a 'heavy' landing the fuselage had separated from the complete wing assembly -no visible sign of damage to the gear legs though!

[Stratocaster]

Thanks again for your inputs.

Now let's suppose for a minute that the STOL requirement is removed from my wishlist, would the PC12 be worth considering ? I think it does although we're entering into a new "category" of aircraft (compared to the Grand Carava).

[B200Drvr]

The PCXII would, as they were used in Africa and are almost a STOL aircraft. However at USD$2.5 MIL. It is a bit pricey compared to any of the other machines suggested. PC 6 Runs in at USD$800K and a C208B at just over a million.

[zimoke]

How about a Dornier D228, should do it. Just dont buy off peter

[Ray.W]

Why not get a turbine powered DC3

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Turbine -3 is a pitfall for the unwary.......:E

[I.R.PIRATE]

Its a beeeeeaaaaaassssstttttt, but not for children....

[Cessnafan]

How about a Dornier D228, should do it. Just dont buy off peter
Agreed, dont buy off Peter, In any case D228 is not reliable enough in Africa, you need to be near good maintenance and ground power with those power plants and the nose gear definately not gonna last on rough strips.

[big buddah]

Have you thought about a Cresco. 750XL

http://www.aerospace.co.nz/

[Coleman Myers]

If you are looking at DC3 then why not a DHC5 !!!

[MysticFlyer]

Take a blip man, or tie two together, or make a blip-train! No tracks/rwy required!

[Coleman Myers]

Zimoke - do you not enjoy Peter or do you know something we don't about his planes ?. If the latter is it becuase of a certain time by the sea at the hands of some "zimokes" ?

[FlyItLikeARental]

Zimoke, 228 not able to handle dirt strips? 1200 engine cycles, 600 hours, 1200 landings, NO PROBLEMS:ok: ... If you don't believe me pm me with your email addy and i'll send you pictures.

As for not buying off Peter... go jump.

[TownshipDog]

The Dornier will do it.STOL is it's middle name. Cessnafan, you obviously just know Cessna's. I fly a Dornier 228-201 in africa. We do on average 7 to 9 sectors a day, with battery starts at each stop, in the bush where you dont get GPU's, with complete confidence.. Had to use the GPU once in 11 months, and that was after we used battery power when adjusting and actuator the night before.

As for the nose wheel not handling rough strips...the undercart is built for military applications into unprepared strips. It actually comes off the Dornier Alpha-Jet, which if you get your copy of Jane's out, you will see is a rugged piece of kit.

The Garrets are low maintainence as long you have good batteries. Check the SA Flyer or African pilot this month. I belive one of them has an article about a Dornier which should confirm what I've said. Or just ask any ex-Link driver who has time on type.

:ok:

[Cessnafan]

Township, the dorniers nose gear is tough in the sense that it can take quite a punch without collapsing, however you start picking up alot of nonsence with the hydraulic nose wheel steering. AS for those Garetts, they good when theyr started, but if that FCU decides not to schedule fuel on start(and Murphy always schedules such an event when you're in the gamadulus) it does'nt matter how good the batteries are, you will be lucky to get a second cycle even with lead acids, and when that enrichment valve jams open, have your marsh mallows ready. Having said that,when all goes well its a nice machine to fly, like the crew door alot, short field is good. As for cessna's, my time consists of more of other types including Dorniers.:)

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Agree with CM. The Beefalo would be my choice. Good load carrier, relatively fast and great short field capability. Tough as old boots and a ramp for convenient loading/airdropping.

Best description is she's a Twotter on steroids...:ok:

[spice]

The aircraft of the hour is the PAC 750XL - Ugly looking thing, but an incredible aircraft. Better than the Caravan and can carry more! Lands and takes-off on a dime.
Engine - P&W PT6A-34
Empty weight - 1460kg
Useful load - 1941kg
Cargo door - 122cm x 110cm
Fuel capacity - 841 l
Take off distance, ground roll - 880 ft
Landing distance, ground roll - 866 ft
Max cruise speed at 10 000ft - 169 ktas
Max endurance - 5 hours
Service ceiling - 20 000 ft
Pilots that have flown it says most awesome aircraft they have EVER flown!
Check it out at www.aerospace.co.nz

Just a suggestion, beats anything in Africa at the moment, even the good ol' DC3-T!!!!!!!!

[irishair2001]

This might be the answer to your problem http://www.gippsaero.com/,certainly worth a look

[Solid Rust Twotter]

Airvan is a bit cramped for the crew and can't carry the weight required. You may pick up some prop damage as well. The PAC 750 XL is also going to battle a bit on dirt strips with the prop in such close proximity to the ground. Should work OK but the props won't last as long as they should.

[Mungalui]

PAC 750 XL
I reckon it is going to chow a lot of dirt through that air intake even if the inertial seperator is open.Very low to the ground.Man and is that thing ugly or what?!
Performs well though.Had the opportunity to fly right seat with one of Naturelink's guys.He slammed everything forward for take-off and the engine just stayed within limits.Performed very,very short landing with 7 pax and about 4 hours of fuel. :ok:

[petesevenseven]

I know your'e not interested by aircraft from Eastern Europe!!!

But I'm a BIG FAN of the LET410!!!!

Cheap Reliable makes lots of noise!!!! And just when you thought you'd seen just about everything she can do, she pulls out yet another trick!!!!!

Thats my opinion!!!!

Happy Landings!!!!!!!

Pete77!!!!!!:ok:

[irishair2001]

What about the Gavilan 508,already operating in similar conditions.

[Treetopflyer]

One of the outfits operating in Gabon has Dorniers and they did operate to short & rough bush strips there (mainly on the coast, soft sand and grass strips). The aircraft did the job alright, but this did after a while damage the nosewheel, and they eventually had to change the entire assembly way before its life limit.

Steering is nice to turn around on tight runways, it needs serious maintenance though.

[TownshipDog]

I've heard about jetfly's dorniers, and i'm just talking from my own experience. In all our years operating the machines, we've only had damage from pilots neglecting to remove the pin from the actuator before towing. If you exceed 45 deg on tow you will comprehensively stuff up said actuator. Also most guys don't bother to keep the ram clean (i.e. give it a quick wipe every morning) and this can reduce component life. Spose it boils down to look after your equipment and it'll look after you, that goes for all aeries/women/pets/speed-boats/traffic cops :}