View Full Version : Ryanair X-Wind landing
armada
5th Dec 2005, 01:08
Any 737 drivers care to comment on this?
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=968017
sarah737
5th Dec 2005, 08:27
If there is 20 kts wind from the right its a perfect crosswind landing
737 driver says a great picture of a classic wing-down cross-wind landing.
Any other questions, armada?
Nice picture of a beautifully executed wing-down crosswind landing.
catchup
5th Dec 2005, 10:49
Hope, the wind came from the right.....;)
Rainboe
5th Dec 2005, 11:20
From the look of the length of the smoke trail, it was not a hard touchdown. I would assume that it was a superb landing in a crosswind using wing down technique.
DingerX
5th Dec 2005, 11:48
I love those as a passenger. I'll take a beauty like that over winds-calm floating down the runway for a "greaser" landing any day of the week. When they do it right, you know the flight crew is earning their pay on one of those.
Textbook landing - Left rudder input is clearly visible as well.
Are the flaps at 30 deg ??
Hmmm! Could only be 29.5deg? Obviously Ryanair 'getting away with it again':D :D
EDIT: Sorry - let my evil side out there:D. Perhaps we should wait and see if 'armada' has any more questions on it?
Oshkosh George
5th Dec 2005, 12:54
Why all this speculation about wind speed/direction when it tells you in the photo caption that the wind was 033 degrees/32 knots landing on Rwy 28?
I'd say impressive!
Ghostie31
5th Dec 2005, 12:55
Hey, just a quick question for those ryanpilots. what is the engine on that 737? seems to have a very low by-pass ratio. Must be quite a noisy beast!
cheers
Ghostie
Rainboe
5th Dec 2005, 13:16
It's a 737-200 with Pratt & Whitney JT3 (or is it -9, I've forgotten!) engines. You are right they are low bypass and noisy, possibly only exceeded by that wonderful means of converting fuel to noise, the BAC 1-11.
Edit: You have made an assumption (probably correct :D) in this part of your text which may NOT be true. I would prefer to let armada come back and offer us more before reinstating it - so it is in the deepfreeze for now.
Farrell
5th Dec 2005, 13:24
Lovely landing
Can remember a similar one a few years back with the 'Jaguar'. Winds were gusting all over the scale, he got pitched about all the down the then landed in a similar fashion.
Lots of radio button clicks from the four aircraft holding sort.
ALLDAYDELI
5th Dec 2005, 13:54
not a JT9D, thats like on the B747 & widebodies.
deconehead
5th Dec 2005, 13:56
Rainboe and SNAM JT8D-9 (or -15s most likely -15s in this day and age).
Good approach and landing. Well done to a true professional crew.
TakeItEasy
5th Dec 2005, 14:16
Try that with the NG ;)
Nordam hushkitted-JT8D. Do pay attention please.
Nordam 737 hushkits in demand
Stewart Penney, London (30Jul98, 16:03 GMT, 351 words)
US hushkit specialist Nordam has announced orders worth more than $75 million to muffle 56 Boeing 737-200 twinjets, most of which are flying in European skies.
Irish low-cost carrier Ryanair has ordered 16 new shipsets (of two hushkits) and five conversions for its 737-200s, which are the only aircraft in its fleet prior to the delivery of its first 737-800 in early 1999.
Kit deliveries have started and will continue until December 2001. Ryanair chief executive Michael O'Leary says that hushkitting means the carrier can "continue to grow and maintain our position as Europe's largest low fares airline".
America West, based in Phoenix, Arizona, has placed the second biggest order, taking 14 shipsets which will all be delivered by the end of the year.
European Aviation, an aircraft trading and spares specialist based in the UK, has ordered "at least" - says Nordam - ten hushkit sets for the 14 737-200s that it bought from Belgian flag carrier Sabena in February.
Moroccan flag carrier Royal Air Maroc has committed to seven shipsets for delivery by the year's end, making it, according to Nordam, the first African carrier to bring Chapter 2 aircraft into line with ICAO's Chapter 3 noise regulations.
French carriers Euralair International and Air Mediterranee have ordered four sets between them.
Nordam says it has now received a total of 336 orders to quieten 737-200 aircraft fitted with Pratt & Whitney JT8D engines of various types. It has delivered the equivalent of 180 shipsets, and produces 10-12 aircraft sets a month.
Company vice president Jack Arehart says Nordam is now focussing on European carriers as it considers the US market to be "matured".
In addition to hushkits, the Tulsa, Oklahoma-based company produces flying control surfaces, interior structures, radomes and transparencies for commercial aircraft and helicopters. The company also has a repair business.
Hushkitting allows airlines to continue using aircraft which would otherwise be consigned to the scrap heap for failing to meet noise regulations. All of Europe's aircraft must be compliant with the Chapter 3 standard by 31 December 1999.
US airlines, which are regulated under the FAA's equivalent Stage 3, have until 1 April 2002 to quieten their aircraft.
Source: Air Transport Intelligence news
sarah737
5th Dec 2005, 14:39
Ghostie: by-pass ratio 1
TI-Easy: no problem at all to do this with an NG or Efis, but dont try it with a Bus.
TakeItEasy
5th Dec 2005, 14:43
Might be it is conservative working for my present employer, but more than 6° bank, less than 10ft RA, is a Go Around
sarah737
5th Dec 2005, 15:04
At a pitch attitude of4 to 5° the flap track fairing (and not the engine as generally believed) will touch with a roll angle of about 14°.
rageye
5th Dec 2005, 15:54
An excellent landing!
Obviously they were able to use the aircraft again after this landing.
Faire d'income
5th Dec 2005, 16:13
Standard wing down cross-wind landing technique. Nice photo as well.
BTW the wind in the photo is given as '32knots @ 33' which I would take as 330/32kts. O33/32kts would have been on runway 10. :)
You won't find a better bunch of handlers than the Dublin boys & girls, six sector days 900 hours a year with no one watching your back, they do it with their eyes closed and perhaps a little grin now and then when it gets a little sporty, legends.
normal_nigel
5th Dec 2005, 19:32
They think that in Sweden as well.
Oops sorry, that was where they screwed up and tried to hide it.
Silly me
sstaurus
5th Dec 2005, 20:14
Why would that be impossible in an Airbus? Computer wouldn't let you?
kooyheier
5th Dec 2005, 22:42
Sarah737... That's rubbish... can easily be done in an Airbus(320/1).. Have done it many times myself.... And if needs be, will do it again..
Cheerio:cool:
xetroV
6th Dec 2005, 02:30
sarah737:
TI-Easy: no problem at all to do this with an NG or Efis (...)
Correct! http://www.xs4all.nl/~olie/fok/smilies/Smilies/kerst-bigsmile.gif
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/704206/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/963204/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/548704/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/806740/M/
(...) but dont try it with a Bus.
Wrong! http://www.xs4all.nl/~olie/fok/smilies/Smilies/kerst-nosmile.gif
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/611022/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/844919/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/339090/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/550784/M/
reverserunlocked
6th Dec 2005, 08:16
Irish, bunch of wusses - those Dutch however have real balls of steel! ;)
http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/7936/2901009br.jpg
TakeItEasy
6th Dec 2005, 09:54
Woh!
ok, I think, we are really a bit to much conservative.
I haven´t ever seen pictures like these before. I guees, I have to show them my Flight Manager.
The background: We´ve had an incedent round one year ago. Landing also with x-wind of about 35kts, Touch down:
1st : Left main, 2nd: nose gear (that was the problem), 3rd: the right main gear.
A left engine had to be replaced, due to ground contact caused by wrong landing techniq. The left engine had ground contact, because after the left main gear , immediately the nose gear had touched down. (The story so far).
TurtleMaster
6th Dec 2005, 12:35
Not the recommended method for a x-wind landing for an aircraft with low slung engines.
Turtle - the aircraft manufacturer (Boeing 737) does not have the same opinion as you! ;) No 'recommendations' or 'don't do's' are made. Merely advice on body contact angles.
FlightDetent
6th Dec 2005, 12:54
Also the first part to scrape the ground is the outer flap fairing. Just look at the picture and imagine the aircraft banked enough to strike the ground. That (!) is scary. I would say on the piccie, it is only about half way there.
FD
(the un-real)
Mostly correct, FD, but it can be the LEDS or the engine nacelle depending on pitch attitude (737) as Take-it-easy describes. Boeing produce a carpet graph to explain.
Checkboard
6th Dec 2005, 17:06
BOAC, from the current Boeing 737 Flight Crew Training Manual:
Sideslip only (zero crab) landings are not recommended with crosswinds in excess of 17 knots at flaps 15, 20 knots at flaps 30, or 23 knots at flaps 40. This recommendation ensures adequate ground clearance and is based on maintining adequate control margin.
Note ; Reduce sideslip only (zero crab) landing crosswinds by 2 knots for airplanes with winglets.
I sit corrected! Was looking under 'techniques' but have now found it under 'guidelines' so apologies to Turtle. You obviously have a later edition - mine is Oct 31 2002 - and OOI says 13/16/18kts.
Being an ex crab, anyway, ..........:D
Sideslip only (zero crab) landings are not recommended with crosswinds in excess of 17 knots at flaps 15, 20 knots at flaps 30, or 23 knots at flaps 40. This recommendation ensures adequate ground clearance and is based on maintining adequate control margin.
Any idea why the crosswind limits for higher flap settings are higher?
More flaps means less Vref thus slightly higher bank angle needed to keep no crab. Furthermore, the flap fairings are closer to the ground. It doesn't make sense to me :confused:
rageye
6th Dec 2005, 19:16
those Dutch however have real balls of steel!
Don't give those blue guys credit they don't deserve.
A few years ago they touched down a 737 with the wingtip first...
Bearcat
6th Dec 2005, 20:59
"would assume that it was a superb landing in a crosswind using wing down technique."
what a load of sheer horse manure IMO.....look at the body angle.....look at the angle of bank.... any other machine and you'd be writing still explaining why you scrapped a pod....the 200 is a very forgiving machine.
I think way too much wing down and flared too early...having said that there but we all go but for the grace of god. We are all only as good as our last landing....
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/954854/M/
Nose wheel contact - down elevator - I know how my Cessna whould respond to this - but then again - this is not a Cessna.
Does anyone know the story behind this ?
Gargleblaster
7th Dec 2005, 08:30
JEP, simple explanation, this beast must have some very powerful nose wheel brakes ! :D
Re the Dutch: They were probably raised in a Fokker F27, which I guess can be landed with a 45 degree bank. :D
Checkboard
7th Dec 2005, 15:18
ok1, I would hazard a guess that the pitch angles are lower at the higher flap sttings, hence the higher speed allowance.
Doors to Automatic
8th Dec 2005, 16:08
I understand the technique is not recommended for the 747:
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/122621/M/
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/149179/M/
and it has mixed results when used on the MD-11
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/132119/M/
Rainboe
8th Dec 2005, 16:24
Those had nothing to do with crosswind landing technique- they were as a result of trying to hard to recover from offset approaches. The 747 is not for making any more than a mild gesture to this procedure for size and risk of pod scrape reasons.
TopBunk
8th Dec 2005, 16:48
B737-200 engines are P&W JT8D's...the BA ones were -15's giving 15,500 lbs thrust.
Noisy .... hell yes, and lovely with it (iirc about 20% bypass ratio). Start up in about 15 seconds to stable idle (albeit with a big thump as the fuel ignites:D ).
You could set the approach power by the sound heard in the cockpit - on the (very) rare occasion I see one nowadays, I open the cockpit window to savour the crackle of the exhaust as take off power is applied, pure nostalgia and brings back memories of parking in the LGW crew car park in the mid '90's outside the old BA CRC ....... happy days.
checkboard: thanks for reply, I guess you could be right.