Shortage of aircraft leaves the Paras without wings

[Mr C Hinecap]

From the Telegraph today:

The RAF has become so stretched by operations that it can no longer spare aircraft or crew to train paratroopers.

Members of the Parachute Regiment are having a major part of their training curtailed because jumps keep being cancelled.

Senior Para officers are worried that commitments in Iraq, Afghanistan and the Balkans are harming the training that is vital to keeping the Armed Forces among the best in the world.

Parachute Regiment commanders have complained that recruits who have passed the tough P Company selection course will be sent to Afghanistan in the spring without gaining their coveted wings.

A company commander said: "The latest batch of recruits will not even have done the basic parachute course."

The Ministry of Defence refused to give the numbers of paratroopers who had passed the two-week course in the past year, suggesting that The Daily Telegraph request them under the Freedom of Information Act.

It is even considering leasing aircraft from the Polish air force to help with the parachuting crisis.

One TA soldier has gone on three courses but each time failed to do the required six jumps. On the latest course, this month, the reservists were promised two sorties at the start of the week but both were cancelled.

"Good quality people are becoming increasingly brassed off," the soldier said. "It is a complete waste of money, effort and resources." A Para officer said: "The regiment has a first-class esprit de corps, possibly the best in the Army, through the common experience of the combined challenges of P Company and parachuting.

"If you start dismantling this training process that is common across the ranks then you risk losing what binds the officers and men together to make such a feared, effective and disciplined force."

The situation has been aggravated because the new Hercules Mark 5 transport aircraft can safely drop paratroopers from only one door instead of two because of the propeller wash.

The RAF admitted that "a lot of courses were being cancelled at the last minute" because operations always had to take precedence over training.


Oh well - Para Regt to have role cut next? :bored:

[airborne_artist]

I remember the airborne phase of a number of exercises being cut in 82/3 because so many Alberts were being used to supply the FI before the opening of MPA.

Plus ca change ....

[Wyler]

If we start leasing Polish aircraft, who will jump first, Paras or crew?

Genuine question: When did the paras last jump in anger?

[g126]

Genuine question: When did the paras last jump in anger?


Irrelevant, it is part of the training that makes them the best in the world, it helps form their reputation. Would you want to go up against anyone who had jumped out of a perfectly airworthy aircraft six times?:)

[The Helpful Stacker]

Genuine question: When did the paras last jump in anger?

Suez I believe, although a small contingent from 2 Sqn RAF Regt made a para insertion in Sierra Leone after the major fighting had finished.

[Runaway Gun]

Let's just hope that funding doesn't take away their parachutes.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Would you want to go up against anyone who had jumped out of a perfectly airworthy aircraft six times?

Jumping out of the plane isn't the difficult bit, I'm an RAF stacker and have managed to complete the jump phase.

What gives the Para's their reputation is P company, but if the resources thrown at the Parachute Regiment were given to 'hat' regiments I have no doubt their troops would gain such a reputation over time.

Regiments such as the Royal Green Jackets are some of the finest troops in the British Army at being infantryman (well Riflemen actually) with the comparatively limited resources afforded to non-Para regiments.

It is strange in a time of cut-backs throughout the Armed Forces that an anachronism of the Second World War is still afforded the large amount of resources it requires when in recent history its specialisation hasn't been called into use.

[GeeRam]

Genuine question: When did the paras last jump in anger?

Suez I believe

I believe you are correct.

I believe it's also the only en-masse drop since WW2.

As for lack of a/c, well there's always the option of leasing the Air Atlantic fleet of DC-3/C-47's, I believe some of them are static line equipped...:E

Could make 'em jump in crunchy boots, itchy BD, heavy Denisons and '37 Patt webbing as well...........:p :cool:

[Wyler]

g126

GET A LIFE MATE!

All I asked was a simple question.

Thanks to those who answered.

[g126]

Wyler,
Get a sense of humor mate.
last part of post was meant to be tongue in cheek.

All I meant was, whether they jump or not anymore, it is part of the training. Apologies if it was slightly of context.

[Wyler]

g126

:ok: Its that Friday feeling, been a long week.

[g126]

No worries, I know that feeling.

[BlueEagle]

Every worthwhile army has it's 'shock' element. The parachute troops and the marines are ours and within each 'shock' element we have some specialised units. These troops are the first in, by any means, and without them a cause may be lost, should the need arise for airborne/rapid arrival and it not be available.

Mass drops are unusual these days but it would be a very brave man that said that the need for an airborne operation was minimal, as soon as it was said the need would arise, somewhere.
Right now I would think that, due to their non-commitment in the Middle East, a number of European air forces could offer an abundance of para dropping aircraft, since we are in the EU why can't be use them?

[ExGrunt]

I believe it's also the only en-masse drop since WW2

The cheese eating surrender monkeys have a bit of form on this front:

Dien Bien Phu - May 1954 started with a para drop

and

Kolwezi - 1978 - 2REP battalion level drop

Incidently, it was the later event that led to the decision to retain a parachute capability in the UK.

EG

[The Helpful Stacker]

I don't think anyone is suggesting we don't need any parachute capability at all but do we need so many?

As I've already said, given a similar amount of funding I believe there are many 'hat' infantry regiments that could equal or eclipse the Parachute Regiment as 'shock troops'.

The concept of mass air-dropping troops is dated. Against a 'sophisticated' enemy the large amount of transport aircraft involved are too easy a target and against a less-sophisticated enemy the process is wasteful.

Of course there is always a need for small bodies of men to be parachuted in, such as Pathfinders or those sneaky blokes from Hereford but to maintain battalions of parachute trained troops in these lean times when hard working line regiments are being cut to pieces seems incredulous.

'Air-mobility' is the future and you don't need wings to jump out of helicopter in a low hover.

[southside]

When was the last time they jumped in anger ?

If it was Suez that makes almost 50 years of training without an operation involving a parachute drop. Hmmmmmm.

Whats the point then?


I don't think anyone is suggesting we don't need any parachute capability
why do we need a parachute capability?

[Wyler]

If we are finding it hard to justify the Paras, what about 2 Sqn RAF Regiment?
I can't think of a Main Guard Room anywhere in the world that needs reinforcing by air drop!

(Running for Cover....:D )

[airborne_artist]

I think there's an inherent (and in my view sensible) view in Armyland that while mass para-insertion is unlikely, it's a mobility option that we have to maintain, just in case we need it. While they might not be used in a full war setting, the use of airborne troops to secure an airfield/beachead to extract British nationals from a country in meltdown is not too far-fetched.

Bear in mind that the Para Reg now also includes the Special Reconnaissance Regiment.

Let's hope there's enough airframes for HALO training.

[Climebear]

Bear in mind that the Para Reg now also includes the Special Reconnaissance Regiment.

airborne_artist - No it does not. The SRR is something completelty different from the organization that will be formed to sp UKSF that will include (in the main) 1PARA.

PRESS NOTICE: New Special Forces Regiment for the British Army (http://news.mod.uk/news/press/news_press_notice.asp?newsItem_id=3212)

Announcement about future role of 1PARA in FAS (see para 17) (http://www.army.mod.uk/infantry/org_role_loc/the_future_infantry.htm)

Mention in Hansard (http://www.publications.parliament.uk/cgi-bin/newhtml_hl?DB=semukparl&STEMMER=en&WORDS=parachute%20regiment&ALL=&ANY=&PHRASE=%22Parachute%20Regiment%20%22&CATEGORIES=&SIMPLE=&SPEAKER=&COLOUR=red&STYLE=s&ANCHOR=41216-08_spnew0&URL=/pa/ld200405/ldhansrd/vo041216/text/41216-08.htm#41216-08_spnew0) "The fourth infantry battalion reduction will therefore be found by removing the 1st Battalion the Parachute Regiment from the infantry structure, and using its highly trained manpower as the core of a new, tri-service ranger unit.

I don't know what the Bear is doing though!

[M609]

since we are in the EU why can't be use them?

There is a Nato pool of transports which only a some nations participate in. Not sure if the UK is one of them.

This pool had Nowegian C130s flying (yes they still fly!!!) German paras in Germany this fall, as payment for something the GAF did for the Norwegian MOD elswhere.

[Twonston Pickle]

If we are finding it hard to justify the Paras, what about 2 Sqn RAF Regiment?

I do hope this is tongue-in-cheek, particularly as it has been pointed out that the RAF Regt have carried out the most recent operational jump.

I cannot believe I am defending the rocks but they do have an operational role to take and hold enemy airfields for conversion to friendly use, as well as FARPs etc.

[Green Flash]

This might be a possible thread branch-line! but what happened to all the Andovers?:confused:

[The Helpful Stacker]

but they do have an operational role to take and hold enemy airfields for conversion to friendly use, as well as FARPs etc.

Because TSW lads are always tripping over the rocks that go out to assist them....:rolleyes:

I think perhaps some folk on here read a few too many Warlord comics as a lad and believe it as gospel.

Yes, 2 Sqn RAF Regt did para-insert a small patrol in Sierra Leone but it was after the main hostilities had ceased, the Para's and RM's had gone.

Every two bit country in the world owns ex-Soviet AA weapons these days and lumbering C130's lining up for a drop or slowly descending troops are just too easy a target for mass para-assaults to be considered a serious option.

[Onan the Clumsy]

If they can make it to Texas, we'll get 'em through six piddly jumps. It might only be out of a C-182, but the chances are that if they've never seen one, they'll at least think it's something bigger than a C-130.

We even have a fridge stocked with cold ones. (for afterwards of course)

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y272/onan_the_clumsy/grover001.jpg

Here's a big Texas Howdy to y'all. Y'all jes c'mon in now.

[Wyler]

I know someone who was thereabouts when oit happened and the feeling was it had more to do with securing future budgets than an operational need.

(Don't shoot the messenger)

[OFBSLF]

Didn't they drop their airborne soldiers in northern Iraq?Also Panama and Grenada, IIRC.

[diginagain]

IIRC, the meatbombs jumped from Transalls out of Wunstorf some years back, mit der Germans.
I heard that they were keen to jump wet into the Steinhudermeer, for some obscure qualification, until someone mentioned just how shallow it is in parts.

[oldfella]

There are lots of disciplines being missed at the moment due to a lack of aircraft. As well as the troops not getting qualified the crews are missing out on quals and currencies. If the equipment is compatable use other nation aircraft to get the troops qualified. If not look to use one of the aircraft stuck in mod programmes at Cambridge or Boscombe.

[FrogPrince]

So I should buy myself a second-hand An-2 from one of the Baltic States and hawk my services around the MoD then.

Anyone want a part-share ?