Resign to join Emirates?

[Goose 10]

Emirates fellas,

I'm getting furloughed a second time from a major US carrier (now bankrupt). I've been here for 7 years. I've heard from someone on another board that Emirates will require me to resign my seniority number from my current carrier (even though I'll be furloughed). Do you think it's worth it to RESIGN my seniority number in order to move to Emirates? I have a little over 9K total time (all heavy), retired USAF, and I'm now an FO on a narrow body flying US domestic. I think best case, if I stay here, I'm looking at 2-3 yrs of furlough and possibly a capt upgrade in 7 - 8 years. Worst case I guess we'll strike and liquidate the company.

Recommendation anyone?

thanks,
Goose 10

[Ahad Adump]

Gooseman

I "think" EK only wants a resignation letter from your last employer. It is their security that you will stick it out here and can't run back home.

Your arrangement, with seniority #; is no business of EK.

I know ex-SAS guys have a seniority # arrangement and as long as they showed a resignation letter, EK was happy.

EK does follow up with a phone call, as a YAPIE discovered 10 years ago. So don't try a fake.

My info is a bit sketchy. I'm sure more good info will follow.

[Goose 10]

Dumpman,
Thanks for the info. Guess I did'nt word my question correctly. I've got seven years with a major US carrier and they're furloughing me again because of bankruptcy. Do you think the future at Emirates is bright enough for me to resign from my current carrier in order to join Emirates?

Thanks again,

Goose 10

[6000PIC]

Hi Goose 10 , you should ask which of the two is ordering all those 777`s , get out while you can.

[Gillegan]

Check your PM's.
Cheers
Gillegan

[Bubair]

Goose 10

I think in your situation I would just go for Ek having clear in mind that I'll have to work VERY hard for the rest of my career with very little time off left for family and friends.

And I would also get prepared to deal everyday with the arab endless burocracy.

For these very reasons at the moment I decided not to join EK.

Good luck

[bigmountain]

I believe its a no brainer. But obviously you are you and you will have to make a decsion on various factors.

1) do yo have another option job offer) to weigh aganst the Emirates offer.
2) do yo have experience flying and working in a multicultural environment.
3) Do yo have family and are they willing to explore the middlle east on a mid to long term basis.
4) Are you adaptable to the ever changing aviation scenario.

Emirates has appox 80 odd aircraft and have 45 A380 on order 25 B777 300 ER and have recently ordered additional 42 Boeing 777LR /300-Er etc to be delivered now till 2010-12 . Around 1 aircraft per month nothwithstanding the recent 42 B777 they annonced at the Dubaii airshow.

Dubai is a very cosmopoliton city , not unlike Vegas . It is a booming city . with is landmark Plam Island and Tallest Hotel building Burj AL Arab while they have announced the tallest building in the world to be completed in the next few years.

Tourisim in Dubai and UAE is booming . The growth rate is phenomenal and to meet these requirements Dubai is building up its infrastructure with roads homes and hotels on a campaign basis. Some may complain its a construction site. But Dubai is the best place to be in the middle east.

It offers 365 days of sunshine ( can get quite hot july - sept) Pleasant October -june. Lots of sports activites , restaurants bars cafe , diving even skiing ( just opened its first indoor ski resort)

The Job at Ek is bad to very good depending where people are coming from.

1) Your office ( flight deck) offers a congenial atmosphere ) friendly
2) Job Tax free , housing provided , picked up from home in and dropped in a Vovo or Audi A6.
3) Schooling fees are provided witha 10 % deductible . However the american school fees are somwhat higher for the junior school children and you can look to reachiing into your own pockets to meet the difference. As you kids get into high school the difference is not that much.
4) Meal allownace are not that great but are based on the average hotel menu with applicable crew discounts.
5) You have a roster bid system that has a rotationg seniority. So although yo may be junior in the airline you can also be top bid based on the rotaing seniority system.
6) Min days of 8-9 . But depeding on how you bid you may get 12-14days.
7) Promotion. Min 3 years with 6ooohrs and good repoets on you check rides.
8) Fast track ( previous command) 8000 hours plus 2000 hours command . You can expect command in 18 months if found suitable in
9) From various mailing you can draw your own conclusion about the morale and general feeling of the troops. However its still the best job for a career in the middle east.
10) I might add that there are quite a lot of good things about emirates but at the moment the lackluster middle mangement are clouding over these by their general indifference towards the crew .
11 Good safety record . In house trainig
12) Even if you had a job in a major carrier . If you were looking to work for a dynamic ailrine and an international airline , that will challenge yo professionally, with new aircraft and routes, then this is the place to be. New joiners below you as soon as you can get hold of a seniority list.
13) Your family shoud be able to fit in. UAE and Dubai offer one of the most safe and secure envioroments in the middle east. EK offers 2 flight to JFK daily ( sorry no jumpseats ) just in case some of you get home sick.

I would however ask you to pay a visit to Dubai incase you are invited for the interview, preferably with your wife to make your your own assesment.
I will now leave the others ( Glass is half empty guys) to give you their side of the story.
BM

[miss petal]

Fair posting...
I know people who hate this place to the very core.
But I also know people who love this place and the company compare to otheres.

It's all up to you guys if you're easy to pleased.. ;)
then shouldn't have a problem living in Dubai.

Remind you about the traffic jam in Dubai it's getting ridicilous!! Absolute nightmare...
Two years ago we don't have this problem. Only started last year's winter and this year. Difficult to get to places on time and worst, going and coming back from work you have to stuck at the traffic jam.
Just an example how Dubai grow so fast or too fast? Don't know what's gonna happen next year.

But hey is traffic jam will stop you for coming to Dubai?

And to summarize all the post about Emirates ( the company ) I have to say we're having a hard time at the moment. Honestly I dont' know exactly how bad, cause I'm not a flight deck. Just some friends talked about it a lot in the past year..

Good Luck

[Desert Whine]

What Big Mountain said about the weather is bullsh!t, I'm afraid. It is too hot and humid to go outside for long for at least 3 months of the year. For 2 months either side it is just really hot and humid and not that nice. The other 5 months it's okay with the middle 2 or so quite pleasant.

This is notwithstanding all the dust and sand which is a constant feature of living here in the desert. The sky is brown most of the year. Literally. The year-long "sunshine" finds it hard to break through during summer. The sun sets about 15 degrees above the horizon, often, due to the dust and scum in the air.

I would not describe Dubai as cosmopolitan or much like Vegas except maybe in "boom" nature.

As in boom-towns, inflation is high and greed is the most common denominator.

Yes growth is phenomenal, not least in the area of traffic congestion. You will be stunned, like everyone else, when you see how dangerously and inconsiderately so many people drive here.

The salary may be tax-free but little else is. Services, restaurants, booze, living (if you live out on your own). Not to mention the "lifestyle" tax you will pay here. This is NOT a tax-free environment despite what some people might say.

There has even been talk about taxing salaries, but only for the ex-pats, of course.

But I'm glad BM is able to be so upbeat about it. Someone has to be. Perhaps he's a better man than I am???

[ruserious]

I'm on the fence about Dubai and the airline, while there are some real positives to living and working here, the problem from my perspective is it gets worse (in all respects) every year, the longer you stay here the more you want to get out.
NOTHING of any significance gets better in Dubai over a period of time.

[Goose 10]

All,
Thank you all for your honesty and candor. My big gripe is that I'll have to resign my seniority number (getting furloughed soon) to join Emirates. It's not a big deal for us to go to Dubai for 5 or even 10 years but its a big commitment since I'll be burning bridges.

Thanks again,

Goose 10

[in limbo]

Hey Goose. Check your pm's.;)

[meaw]

Goose 10,

I was in your very exact position 2 years ago.My airline (major legacy carrier here in North America) was in bankruptcy,I had 6 years seniority, with no guaranties we would pull out of it and I had an offer to join Emirates wich meant resigning at my airline.

It was an extremely tough time deciding because it's impossible to see the future and the consequences of your decisions.

I spent a lot of time and many sleepless nights reflecting on what to do (I had about 3 weeks to give my answer) talking to some friends that work at EK and also a few that worked there and came back to N.A.

After lots of soul searching it was too difficult to give up the seniority number , and say that I was leaving for the next 25 years ( I was 35 at the time).It worked out well because my airline pulled out of it and is now profitable, growing and I went from a couple of numbers from a layoff to flying widebodies.

But a big part of me wanted to go......and if I didn't have to go for so many years, I would be at EK.
I knew that if my airline survived I would be a widebody skipper eventually and not have to leave my family and friends behind for almost 25 years.

But if you are in your mid to late forties, and a narrowbody FO, looking at being furloughed for 2-3 years .....I would go in a heartbeat.(after you and your family go spend a 2 week vacation there to see if they like it......my family loved it)

I never worked for EK but have friends there and friends that were there and came back and all said the exact same thing:
it's really good the first 2 years or so, OK for another 2 or 3 years but after that you start to wish you were home.

You will here lots of pros and cons from all sides but my personal opinion after going through the torture you are going through was all about age: if youre looking at being recalled at 45 to 5o years old and would only spend 10-12 years in DXB I would personally be on the next plane out.

Finally youre airline might not be as attractive a place after they decimate the pension,the pay, the working conditions etc...

As the smart veterans of EK post here often: go see for yourself and bring your wife.

Good luck my friend and if by the way you happen to work for Delta we all really respect you guys for putting your foot down and demanding fairness and respect because it's enough of pilot gouging.

MEAW

[Riker]

He could be working for Northwest. I met a bloke at Delta who is still there having started about 5 years ago...

From what I have heard, you cannot trust EK's management. They can change your contract AT WILL. Dubai might be an attractive place to some people, but you can always visit and not live there - it's pretty expensive. Personally, I would avoid EK if I were you because you have a position (although about to be furloughed) with an established airline that will probably get healthier in time. I say go find a good corporate jet job while you wait out your furlough... Good luck!

[ratpoison]

Dubai offer one of the most safe and secure envioroments
Hahahahahaha. Yeah, try saying that to the Phillo maid found in the dumpster at the ParknShop. Or maybe the little THREE year old found on the Jumierah beach raped and murdered. Or the constant bag snatching from street level to restaurants. Day in and day out of continuous breakins and expat families robbed and threatened by the well known mafia. Yeah, real "safe and secure".

Goose, besides what the Pro-Dubai squad try to tell you, treat the place with every suspicion and know that it is the same as any other sh*thole city in the world ie drugs and prostitution is ripe and the usual muggings, rape, murder, robbery and the list just keeps going on. But a lot here have run away from something deep back in their lives and need the place to hide and live in denial. Hope this helps with your decision. ;)

[6000PIC]

I`d choose EK , although one mustn`t forget that Dubai could go from the sidelines of this war on terror , to the frontlines in a jiffy.

[tiramisu too]

No worries mate come to Emirates, lots of layed off people here like desert whine dour and sour and who is always complaining....

You will love it!

Keep running!

[MTOW]

When I was in the same position you're in, I was told by a fellow who'd lived in Dubai that there were only three things wrong with Dubai...

- June, July and August.

I'd highly recommend that you and your wife come over and take a look at the place for yourselves. It's everything that the "glass half full" AND the "glass half empty" people say it is. However, at this time of year, you may be lulled into a false sense of security re the weather. It's almost perfect for the next three months. Would that it was so in the ***ing summer!

[radnav]

Please bear in mind that most of the newer Emirates pilots are perfect specimens of the " Stockholm Syndrome".

The majority have under 7 years service, many much less than that........ and nearly all have come from Carriers that were bankrupt, defunct, Chapter 11, merger nightmares, charter companies or hail from regions of the world which are virtually unlivable for one reason or another. For very few was Emirates Airlines their childhood dream to work for.

To a large group of staff, Emirates was their only choice and hence their saviour. Being positive is one thing having clouded judgement another.

Is EK fantastic...no...Is EK terrible....no. You will ultimately become your own judge should you come.

But be careful taking advice from "newbies" who would encourage you to throw away the chance of a career job in your home country... remember "It ain't over till the fat lady sings."

Nearly always the "Stockhlom Syndrome" eventually fades away and then the blinkers come off. Worse comes to worse well Emirates will probably still be going in 6 months time and the jaded sun will still be trying to fight its way through the ever present dust cloud.

[SecurID]

Dubai safe? Yes it is, but no more or less than a lot of places. At the Rugby 7s this year was a prominent sign at the entrance to the car park:

No Food
No Drinks
No Weapons

Now that was not there last year....