is military for me

[justanother]

With the current state of the commercial business I am considering whether or not to see if the RAF will have me. Just wondering what you guys think, is it a good life? Will the gov. continue to cut back so there's nothing left to fly? Is it a good move?Fly over the world courtesy of Her Majesty and then see if an airline will give me a job?
many thanks.

[Curtis E Carr]

Your motives for joining are at best questionable. Unless you really wish to join the military, then I suggest that it is not for you.

[The Gorilla]

And your sanity for wanting to join in todays climate!!!:O

[Wyler]

There are still some great opportunities and so I would not be so quick to dismiss it.
You do, however, have to be commited to the way of life and I suspect your particular reasons bring you up short. Probably would not even get past the AFCO.

[BEagle]

Your reasons for joining must involve some positive commitment - it isn't just a financial consideration.

I'd join the RAF I joined in 1968 again like a shot if I was in your position.

Or the RAF of 1978, 1988 - and perhaps even 1998.

But would I join the RAF of today? Not b£oody likely!.

[Jordan3054]

Firstly, if you join the Forces as a pilot, you are an officer /soldier first and a pilot second.

The RAF as you probably know is very picky, and I hear that its not uncommon for them to drop people even half way through their training as they can afford to.

Decide whether you think u will like mil life first of all, then if the answer to thi is yes then try and join. Try all 3 services. However, with the army, if you get into Sandhurst, theres no guarentee you will be going to the AAC (helicopters)so you could end up not flying. If you go the NCO route again theres no guarentee u will be flying. I believe in the RN and RAF its different.

Hope ths helps

PM me if you need anymore info

[justanother]

sorry if i've offended anyone, but i guess what i really want to know is what the lifestyle is like. How much of a social life do you get?food accommodation leave etc.:O

[bwfg3]

Mate, the point the replies above were trying to make is that if you walk into AFCO/OASC with no information/service knowledge you will be likely to be shown the door. However if you really want to join the RAF , the social life can be great, and pay is reasonable, until Brown gets his mitts on his share. But you must balance against this the fact that time away from the UK is possibly an issue. ( why cant we invade barbados instead of iraq? ). My advice is, get the service knowledge and THINK very hard about your reasons for wanting to join up.
By the way, I'm originally from near you. I'm fron Shropshire.. near shrophire I presume? :ok:

[ShyTorque]

"Mate, the point the replies above were trying to make is that if you walk into AFCO/OASC with no information/service knowledge you will be likely to be shown the door"

I think he has realised that - hence his question :rolleyes:

[Samuel]

Every young man should experience the military, it will do you a lot of good, no harm, and will set you apart from all your current mates who lack initiative, and you will learn a lot more about yourself than you do now!

Learn as much as you can about what you think you might want to do, then present yourself to a recruiter or whatever they call them these days, and give it your best shot. It will, however, need to be your very best, totally committed, enthusiastic shot, because you will fall otherwise.

[Clockwork Mouse]

Great that you have expressed an interest in serving your country. However, the tone of your questions indicates to me that you are looking for a comfortable, financially rewarding and fun job and know nothing of service life.

My advice to you, as a former soldier of 34 years service and with a son currently serving as an RAF FJ pilot, is to look elsewhere. Service life, especially as an officer (you want to be a pilot), is not a bed of roses, requires a high level of commitment, a lot of personal sacrifice, is not family-friendly and the rewards are not material. I suspect you would find the loss of personal liberty, the obligations and the petty frustrations an unpleasant surprise.

Become a stockbroker and buy your own plane.

[BEagle]

A carpenter could probably afford his own plane.

A stockbroker might be able to afford his own aeroplane - or helicopter!

:p

[Wyler]

If you fancy the Marines, just turn up to the interview naked, wearing boxing gloves.

[Twonston Pickle]

Justanother,

As a recruiter for the RAF, I agree with some of the posts regards your apparent motivation. That said, you are not expected to have any knowledge of the RAF when you first walk through the door. The recruiting climate is tough and we are only taking the best but if you are serious, go and have a chat with your nearest AFCO. If you want to know where it is or get the tel no, then PM me.

[FrogPrince]

Your age and experience may go against you.

About two years ago I discovered by chance that the upper age limit for Flight Ops Offr had gone up to late thirties. Looking at my financial and family circumstances, I decided it was worth further serious investigation. Having been in the OTC/TA since the age of 18 I was familiar with and mostly enjoyed the ways and workings of the armed forces. However, Flight Ops wasn't on offer when I left uni.

I went to three separate 'sessions' at the local AFCO, taking half a day off work for each (when in fact the whole paperwork / death by presentation process could have been completed in a 'oner'). I rapidly came to the conclusion that AFCO staff were only looking for potential recruits in their late teens or early twenties who could be moulded to the RAF's required shape. (Can't fathom why the upper age limit was extended when it was obviously not what was really required - can anyone enlighten me?) The clincher was some jumped-up AFCO corporal demanding to know why I hadn't returned his call within 30 milli-seconds, as if I was some teenage sprog straight out of college, rather than a mature adult with a reasonably demanding Monday-Friday job.

I was offering a unique skillset and range of experience to the organisation not a blank piece of paper. If you are the same you will chafe at IOT, before you even start working in the 'company' proper. Therefore, you have to want to do the whole forces 'bit' - it is not an alternative to Easyjet !! If you are in any way serious about this you should consider joining a RAuxAF or TA unit nearby before taking the plunge with the day job.

[Twonston Pickle]

FrogPrince,

I went to three separate 'sessions' at the local AFCO, taking half a day off work for each (when in fact the whole paperwork / death by presentation process could have been completed in a 'oner').

The process cannot be done in a 'oner' as you suggest. For a start, the presentations you attend are only run 2-3 times a month at most AFCOs and inveriably do not tie up with the actual day you come into the office. Moreover, there is a gap between the presentation and the interview for your benefit; you need time to take in the information and do your own research to prepare for the interview.

As far as the age limits are concerned, there is no policy of:looking for potential recruits in their late teens or early twenties who could be moulded to the RAF's required shape.

The age limits have been raised to capture the very person you describe; an older, more mature and experienced individual. The RAF has a good mix of all ages and backgrounds for good reason.

I sense a little bitterness at maybe not getting selected first time or thinking you knew better than the organisation? (the RAF has one of the most robust and effective selection procedures in the country - many companies and OGDs come to OASC for that very reason.) By the way, was the AFCO Corporal "jumped up" or did you just have a large chip on your shoulder from OTC/TA days?

Edited to include the age limit for pilot (17.5 to 23) and WSO (17.5 to 25). Although coming to the AFCO right on the upper age limit will probably not give you enough time to go through the process (approx 9 months).

[FrogPrince]

Oh, yes, I'm sure there's an element of 'what might have been' there. However, this forum shows it is possible to be an RAF FJ, ME, RW, bluntie etc. and still become bitter and twisted. :D

'We all have regrets, but you can't say "Yeah, I should have f@@@ing done that".' Ozzy Osbourne.

The chip on my shoulder was knocked off very early on as a JNCO in the TA Int Corps. It was replaced by a confidence in my own capabilities developed over a decade pursuing two parallel careers - civilian and military. I still maintain that AFCO processes can't differentiate between the inexperienced and the older / more mature candidate.

My negative impression at the AFCO may have been misformed. However, the many postings on this forum (e.g. badly-managed course loadings, DAR etc.) show that the RAF ain't as well run as you suggest.

[nutcracker43]

In a word, NO!

NC43

[sikeano]

justanother

remember

serving your country is not about money , it is about pride
raf is not just another job
being a pilot in raf is not like being in an airline,

quote :

__________________________________

( why cant we invade barbados instead of iraq? ).

___________________________________

the above is true therefore do stockbroking or pimp**g you can go to barbados
:ok:

[Jordan3054]

I think the answer to your question is:

Military lifestyle CAN be the right and most enjoyable lifestyle for THE RIGHT PERSON.

My advice to you is to get on a few visits, with all Services, and see where you fit in best, with the kind of people there etc.

I found that certain "types" got on better in different Services, and different units/squadrons for tht matter. The only person who knows if Mil lifestyle is for you is YOU

Plus do you mind time away from home? If the answers no then I sggest you rethink your options.
Regards

[pr00ne]

Samuel,

“Every young man should experience the military?”

What the hell for?

As for it setting you apart from your mates, the young “chaps” in this neck of the woods, judging from some very recent experiences aired on national television, would rather NOT be involved in some weird sadistic homoerotic humiliation ritual that involves them getting kicked unconscious!

Great deal of damage done to the forces recruitment efforts I fear.

[Bob Viking]

Behave man.
A few pictures in a tabloid of marines getting cosy isn't going to deter anyone who is keen on joining the military. If it does then they're probably not the right type anyway.
Before you start, don't any of you start thinking that I, in any way, condone that sort of behaviour or would want to get involved myself. Just pointing out a fact.
By the way, does anyone else find it really annoying that the same newspapers that claim to be a 'friend to the forces' are the exact same ones that jump at the chance of humiliating them when something untoward happens. Dirty rotten scoundrels. Anyone would think that selling newspapers came above morals! Tsk.
BV:rolleyes:

[nutcracker43]

prOOne,

Not sure that this sort of thing happens on a regular basis. Seems to me that the press got hold of something and have made the most of it, as perhaps are you.

Never knew you in the Air Force but there were a few prOOne types around on the squadron...need I say more?

Just for the record, I suffered comparitively worse initiation processes when I first went to boarding school and it has not left me with any psychological problem...college hazing was pretty similar....tacky perhaps but nothing much...as I said elsewhere 'mountains heave in birth, and a silly little mouse is born' Horace.

NC43

[airborne_artist]

25 years ago I undertook (and passed) selection for 21 - we were never beasted, subjected to an initiation "ceremony" or made to do anything that did not have a military purpose. If we wanted to leave we were welcome to go at any time. If we wanted to carry on, then it was because we chose to, not because any loud-mouthed individual shouted at us. As far as I am aware there has never been any beasting at Hereford, or in 23.

The only beasting I did see was once at Sennybridge. Some regular infantry recruits were also there doing their live range work. Their NCOs started to beast them at 0200 when back from a lock-in. A WO2 from Hereford got out of bed and with one quiet word, they were all back in their pits in no time.

You can't shout at someone when you are spending days in an OP just metres from enemy positions.

[Samuel]

I suspect prOOne is speaking more as a lawyer than as a serviceman, or perhaps the one has subjugated the other and he has forgotten that selflessness, pride, and mutual respect are not typically learned at the Bar, but are in the services. ;)

[Melchett01]

A few pictures in a tabloid of marines getting cosy isn't going to deter anyone who is keen on joining the military. If it does then they're probably not the right type anyway.

Whilst I am totally against bullying and such like, and for once agree with prOOne that it probably hasn't done the whole PA offensive much good, we should also remember that Booties aren't recruited for being choir boys - they're Booties for a reason, don't expect them to suddenly take up macramy back in the blocks.

Seems to me that the press got hold of something and have made the most of it

However, I also have to agree with this point, very similar to one I made on another thread about the problems created by ill informed media/politicians/speculation etc. As with the Daily Mirror pics earlier in the year, there's a lot that doesn't quite add up about this story.

Yes Booties dress up and fight - that's what they do. As for them being 'recruits' ....... surely they would be on the Recruit Trg unit rather than 42. or are they just so good they go straight to 42 skipping trg. And secondly, if they had just come out of recruit trg, I suspect they wouldn't be carrying as much lard as the 2 in the video - I wouldn't be at all suprised to find that these 'recruits' were just a couple of juniors that have been in for a while rather than fresh out of the factory and were at a typical Booty party that got out of hand.

Yet more ill informed speculation from our glorious media?

[Neeps]

justanother, you should join the military for the lifestyle, not just for the oppertunity to fly. If you fly for 2-3 hours a day, what do you want to be doing the rest of the time?

I wouldn't be at all suprised to find that these 'recruits' were just a couple of juniors that have been in for a while rather than fresh out of the factory and were at a typical Booty party that got out of hand.

I think that is the nail being hit on the head there.

[pr00ne]

Samuel,

I speak as I find. Your “selflessness, pride and mutual respect” sounds as if it comes straight from the recruiters propaganda.

In my time, and I am absolutely sure it is the same now from what we hear and read, I saw just as much back stabbing, exploitation, career building at the expense of others, deceit and treachery in the RAF as I have ever seen outside. There is no reason to be alarmed by this, human beings are human beings after all, they don’t possess saintly magical powers after graduating from IOT or recruit training.

[BEagle]

pr00ne - you're quite right about the silly comment: “Every young man should experience the military?”

But young people should have a reasonable level of self-discipline, respect for authority and respect for their seniors. Not the cringeing sycophancy loved by senior officers, just polite good manners and courtesy.

As for someone intimating that the appallingly sadistic homoerotic Royal Marines humiliation ritual shown on TV were "..at a typical Booty party that got out of hand"; well, if that's really the case then a thorough investigation is called for. The behaviour shown was totally indefensible.

If that's a 'typical Booty party', then heads should roll.

[Samuel]

Why is it a silly comment?

Everyone posting here, well most of them, including you and prOOne, must have gained something positive from the experience, and you most likely wouldn't be doing what you are without that background. Nor would prOOne I suspect!

It is arguable that the generation after National Service were precisely the people who had "a reasonable level of self-discipline, and respect for authority".

The backstabbing and sycophancy came with a later generation of officers, and we can all recall times which were more honest! Despite that, something must have been gained from the experience, and you are are all what you are and where you are as a result of that experience! I never dwelt on negatives anyway!

My transition from a blue suit to management showed me that I was far better than most at sorting out fundamental issues, and that the rats in the air force were mere pussy cats to those in civvies!

[ChrisMcQuaker]

Don't Join for any other reason than; it is your sole ambition.

Just make sure it is what you want to do. The little bits of info like food & accomadation are not important. What is important is your trade.

Decide what trade you want before you step foot in a AFCO. Because they will try and change your mind to what they need to recuit. Do not accept anything else than what you want.

[just a bloke]

Justanother,

In exactly 19 minutes, I leave after 19 years and 50 weeks service (I'll be gone by the time I post as I type so slowly).

I wouldn't deign to comment on your motivation, each to his own; if it works, it works.

I have two kids, just hitting their teens. If I was advising them 19 years ago about the wisdom of joining an RAF like we have now, I'd have to say, regrettably, don't. However, the RAF we have now has to be seen in a contemporary context, and my advice to them would be unequivocably yes, fill yer boots - especially if you want to be a pilot.

I have been fortunate, I have not gone more than 3 weeks without getting airborne with my signature in the 700 - I have been scared, thrilled, nearly dead, sad, seen blokes crash, flown pissed, told people off for flying pissed, nearly chopped, not slept, missed met brief, spent too long in happy hour, failed Biggin Hill 4 times, seen the sun every time I flew, muddled through. Not a single regret (we're thinking big picture!!)

If I was advising me, It would be very difficult to say anything other than just try -

it is always better to regret doing something than to regret not doing it.

2 minutes....good luck chaps, be safe.

[Flap62]

Justanother,

I don't know enough about you from your few short posts to comment on your suitability for service life but I feel that your post is typical of the growing number on this forum from wannabes.

There have been literally hundreds of threads on every aspect of service life including pay, conditions, social life and toilet facilities! It is indicative of "modern yoof" that it is just too difficult to spend time going back through past topics and using the search function - nah, that's for losers. I'll just type my question and let someone else do all the work. If, as I think it is, this is the attitude of potential applicants then it really isn't worth the bus fair to OASC and frankly any airline worth its salt will see through it too.

I don't really know why I'm bothering to type this as none of the wannabes will ever read this thread, as they never do - they'll just start another "I'm thinking of applying and can't be bovvered etc" thread!!

[Neeps]

I don't really know why I'm bothering to type this as none of the wannabes will ever read this thread, as they never do - they'll just start another "I'm thinking of applying and can't be bovvered etc" thread!!We're not all that bad, honest. A fair few of us do read most of the things of this forum and prefer to read, not write. ;)

[joe2812]

I rarely post in the Mil forum outside of other's wannabe threads... s'only place I can relate to whats being said!

Like Neeps said, we're not all bad... all of the time...

And no, I don't think the military is for you. The fact you have to ask should raise questions of how much you want it.