advice for a real wannabe

[justanother]

Ok haven't done this before so feeling my way.
Here's the story, 16 year old with 9 A's and a b at gcse at continuing with A levels. I have always wanted to be a pilot (yeah heard that one before right?) and having looked at this website it looks like i'm trying to join an elite profession with not a lot of room for newcomers. I notice there are hardly any sponsorships apart from flyBE. Can somebody tell me which direction I should head for; military, self funded, commercial etc. or should i just give up and get a real job. My only flying experience is a couple of hours in a glider off the long mynd.
many thanks.

[Özcan]

hello mate i'm just a year older then you and i've already started my PPL i'm moving on to my ATPL soon

one advice is that... do NOT get a big economic burden without a parachute (another job to fall back on until you can get a flying job), many people learn this the hard way by first borrowing tons of money just to realize things won't work out and on top of that need to get educated for a good enough job to start paying your loan back

if you decide to go self-funded like myself make sure you don't goto the first and best opportunity, there are alot of bad deals in this business. I estimate my ppl->fATPL (with me and MCC) to set my back at around £25.000-30k (modular) going to integrated schools can set you back at even more then 3 times that ammount! so keep an eye open and don't trust everyone

[porchini]

If I could start all over again with my atpl - I wouldn´t nessecarily go for the best school, but the most famous. Getting in and getting your ATPL isn´t the hardest part, getting the job afterwards is. I have a job, but it sure wasn´t easy, and there were times, where I was wasn´t sure if the whole pilotstory was my kinda story. No airline (except the one partially financing the school which of course went nearly broke when i finished) had heard of the school. They didn´t have any contacts. So you had to go on the street and make a name for yourself... That made us all hookers without pimps.
My advice is: Go for Oxford or CTC if You are from Britain. Good luck! :ok:

[flighttime2.0]

justanother

With grades like yours in the gcse id be going to uni studying quantum physics, make a fortune and then come back and pay for your flying career with not a worrie in the world!

flighttime

[Dozza2k]

It depends on how motivated/mature you are. Do you want to dive into a career at 18 when you finish A levels? Or do want to go have fun at Uni or working elsewhere for a few years?

I did flying training rather than Uni and it fortunately worked out for me. Its a risky biz not having anything to fall onto I agree. I guess I was just keen to get flying.

I saw it as being at uni for 3 years doing something I wasn't interested in. Working for 3 years to pay off uni debts, and then getting into debt again for flying. I guess I thought lifes too short to be doing something you don't want to do.

ps. if your 16, join the local ATC. That'll give you confidence, team working and free flying for at least 2 years. Plus, you make great mates, and possibly a bit of a peek at what Military lifes about.

good luck in your choice, you have plenty of time!

[The African Dude]

justanother

You sound just like I did when I was your age (God that makes me sound old!!) - I'm only 22! I got similar grades to yours at GCSE and I'm just coming to the end of a uni course in Engineering.

What Dozza said about uni - "I saw it as being at uni for 3 years doing something I wasn't interested in. Working for 3 years to pay off uni debts, and then getting into debt again for flying. I guess I thought lifes too short to be doing something you don't want to do"
.......is something that HAS crossed my mind, as flying is all I want to do.

BUT - towards the end it's become more and more obvious how important it was for me. Fallback career - big bonus in an industry where you could lose your license and job at your 6-monthly medical with no warning. Maturity - airlines look for well-rounded pilots who can take many factors into account when making big decisions: uni will teach you that. It will give you something to write and talk about in answer to those painful 'Give an example of a time when you...' questions that you'll come across when you apply for those sponsorships, other than answers from part-time work during GCSE's and A-Levels. It opens many doors, even ones unrelated to the degree discipline.

As for whether to go mil or civvy, it's also something that's become obvious to me during my time here at uni. On some level I always knew that it would be commercial - but if you're anything like me then the lure or flying (anything) will cloud your decision. So follow your heart - if you were to go and poke your nose through a perimeter fence, would it be at Heathrow or Brize?

Finally, you'll find many people on here will say that flying IS a 'real' job: Just as it has taken 4 years of study and a year of experience to make me an employable engineer, it will also take a hell of a lot of determination and slog to make you an employable pilot. I'm now in the position where I can start to save for the self-funded route if I can't find sponsorship - a prospect that you may also have to face. But don't give up!

:)

[Cait Sith]

Justanother - Can I ask you something? I've wondered about this a lot. If you've done absolutely no powered flying at all, how on earth do you know it's the career for you?
Not having a pop or anything; I just would really like to know the answer. Yours or anyone else's.

[Danny_manchester]

Hi, well done on your GCSE's, but i am afraid to say that GCSE's are nothing but a basic qualification, and you will meet many of us who have 13 or so A's and A*'s, although this is not what airlines are looking for primarily.

Airlines offering sponsorship are looking for students who stand out in Physics, Mathematics and Chemistry, possible also another language at Advanced level, which is at a different level altogether thn GCSE's.

My advice being sort of in the same shoes is to do the best at A levels as possible, and apply with a string of A's.

Good luck.

[spaceman18]

Dont be put off applying for schemes like CTC with little or no flying experience, or at a young age. I applied at 18 with zero hours. It is worth bearing in mind though that applying at 18 would mean starting your career at 20, which is a good head start on most people, but you have to be sure that you're not missing out on anything. Best advice I can give is to get involved in something that shows great teamwork, determination, and motivation. This could be getting your PPL, or raising money to do charity work and trekking in south america?! Best of luck.

[Danny_manchester]

Yeah, but although your intentions will be pilot studies, remember to get a good backup option, incase for any reason you could have your medical cert. taken away etc.

[justanother]

I'm still toying with the idea of going for the RAF, after all you can't do a barrel roll/ loop the loop in a 747 with hundreds of passengers in the back, but there is the downside of losing a social life, getting shot at (possibly by americans) and those flyboy jokes! What you say is pretty sensible though, i.e having a back up plan/career so i'm not living with the parents when i'm 30! But i'm dismayed by all this talk of physics and maths, by B was in maths! and i'm doing history, geography, biology and class civ. now! eek am i just not vut out for this?

[1CCCC]

Dont be put off applying for schemes like CTC with little or no flying experience, or at a young age. I applied at 18 with zero hours. It is worth bearing in mind though that applying at 18 would mean starting your career at 20, which is a good head start on most people, but you have to be sure that you're not missing out on anything. Best advice I can give is to get involved in something that shows great teamwork, determination, and motivation. This could be getting your PPL, or raising money to do charity work and trekking in south america?! Best of luck.


Spaceman18 - I can ask you what, you think, made you stand out from all the other candidates that go to CTC? (Career history, education, hobbies, teamwork, motivation, determination, leadership examples etc.).

I think it is impressive for an 18 year old with no flying experience to be selected. I’m 25 with no flying experience and after reading your post. I feel like I would have to justify why I didn’t start a flying career at 18, although I want to now.

[The African Dude]

justanother

Have a B at GCSE Maths is good enough, but do A-Level Maths with Mechanics, and Physics, as there are aspects which you will need in commercial training.

As you havn't chosen those then I would speak to a training school for their advice.

[G-MANN]

Mmmmm,

Now here's my story. I went to high school and did GCSE's then rather than doing the A levels or Uni decided I wanted to get a job at an Airline so that is what I did.

I only got a D Grade in Maths GCSE level however I'm 25 now and I've been working within an airline operations environment doing ops control, rostering, crewing, fuel planning, route planning, aircraft performance, Etops training etc etc since 1998.

Would that count for anything? I feel I'd be wasting my money doing the training then finding I cant get a job because I dont have the paperwork from a college or university.

I did 20 hours flying powered aircraft in the air cadets which took me to solo standard so I know its something I want to do just not sure if I'd be employable.

Failing that I might just have to fly for fun.

Rgds
G-MANN

[FFP]

Come join the military !

We'll spit you in 16 yrs, you'll have your ATPL (and been paid to get it !) . .

But in the meantime, you are ours, and we will have polishing boots, hiking up mountains, shooting guns and marching everywhere with your shaved head and issued clothes. We need our money's worth out of you first.

It'd still be fun though !

[scruggs]

Hiya,

I was in a similar position when I was finally ready to apply to the airlines. I had 10 GCSE’s and 2 A-Levels. However, after extensive research, I found the ratio of initial applicants to people making it into the right-hand-seat was fairly low. So I decided to play it safe and do a degree, as its always good to have something to fall back on. It was a hard decision. Having wanted to be a pilot from about the age of 7 (so my mom tells me), it was hard to choose to do a degree as it meant another 3-4 years before I could even apply to the airlines.

I completed my Engineering degree in July, and I'm now waiting for the next bout of part-sponsorships to come up such as FlyBe and Thomsonfly etc. However, again I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket so to speak. I've recently started a funded PhD in Physics, and have been in touch with Atlantic Flight Training (AFT) to discuss the self-funded Modular route. This way I can do my flying training part-time, and pay for it out my wages rather then going into huge financial debt. AFT have given me a quote from zero hour to Frozen ATPL, which I'm very happy with (because I can just about afford it). And it should be completed within 18 months according to them.

Anyway, my advice to any wannabe would be to get yourself a good education first. Okay, airlines don't require a degree, but it will come in very handy should you need to find a job elsewhere. I'm a wannabe myself, and I wouldn't have done it any other way. But as they say, each to his own, and I'm sure some on here will have their own views.

What ever you do, best of luck.

Steve.

Happy New Year.

[smith]

Forget sponsorships and part sponsorships, you end up paying for it all in a roundabout way anyway, I'd get stuck in to the training now rather than wait for these "part sponsorships" to come along!

[scruggs]

Hi Smith,

I was leaning towards that opinion myself. The things what attracts me to the sponsorships and the part-sponsorships are the potential jobs at the end. Not sure if FlyBe and Thomsonfly sponsor pilots and then release then at the end of training without an offer of employment, that’s something I haven’t found out. I know Aer Lingus released pilots after training without offering employment, but as some have said here, Aer Lingus did pay for their training!

It’s certainly a difficult one, especially as the FlyBe scheme wont start open for applications again until 10/2006 - going on past trends.

Okay, here's one for all you pilots out there. If you were in my, or a similar situation, what would you do? Wait for the part-sponsorships, or start self-funded training now? Would be great to get the views from the people who know best!

Cheers,

Steve.

[link4]

best advice i can give to all young people out their is if you want to be an airline of mil pilot, go for it and start young, however dont do it just to prove a point, and most of all dont say it in 'the spur of the moment' as many of my friends have done in the past.

Ive just turned 18 and am armed with a PPL in the last year of college, and have started to familiarise myself with ATPL material on the weekends to stay ahead of the game. And am starting integrated course hopefully on the APP. Done my flying with a very reputable flying school, one which i know has punch fights with oxford every night :)

Hopefully if i stick to it i'l land myself a job when im around 21/22, as my friend did with Flybe who's 22 now :cool:

Best of luck to all

Happy new year

[AMiller]

The African Dude

"but do A-Level Maths with Mechanics, and Physics, as there are aspects which you will need in commercial training"

Urrm No and agree.

He should do a subject he likes and can excel at. Granted maths helps. But it is not a requirement. You either have it or you dont. Quite simple mate.

smith

"Forget sponsorships and part sponsorships, you end up paying for it all in a roundabout way anyway, I'd get stuck in to the training now rather than wait for these "part sponsorships" to come along!"

Aww didn't get into any?

Bless!

Andy

[scroggs]

There is a world of difference between the various ways of earning a living in aviation. To make a sensible decision about which route to take, you need to learn as much as you can about the jobs that may be available to you. Always remember that it is not about the aeroplane you fly, it's about the job satisfaction you get from flying it.

If you wish to consider the military - a very attractive option - you need to understand that a fundamental tenet of the job is that you may get shot at and killed in the process of completing your task. You must also understand that, for the period of your service, you must subjugate your personal point of view to the needs of the government of the day.

With commercial aviation, remember that there are many more ways of earning a living than by flying an airliner. Far too many wannabes these days are blinkered in their pursuit of the right-hand seat in a 737 and forget that there is a great deal more fun and satisfaction to be had flying (for example) air taxis, freight or in corporate aviation. Don't be in a rush to get to 747s and longhaul flying - unless you are a passionate fan of Sudoku, crosswords and jetlag. There is plenty of time for that...

If you decide that civilian aviation is for you, you must decide not only what your target jobs may be, but how you intend to get there. There are few sponsorships left these days, though the CTC and similar schemes allow you to defer the costs of training until you are employed - assuming you are indeed employed at the end of your training. Should you not be, you may find yourself liable for a very large debt indeed yet with no obvious way of paying it.

Training via the modular route may have less obvious connections with the airlines, but there is no shortage of ex-modular students gaining employment. The debt incurred going this route will be considerably lower than via the integrated route, but on the other hand you will have to find the cash before you take each module.

There is a lot to think about before engaging on the route to professional aviation. This is not Fame Academy; there are no routes which do not require a great deal of hard work and application.

Oh, and ignore The African Dude. You will not require A-level maths for any of these routes to aviation. Your B at GCSE is quite adequate.

Scroggs

[scruggs]

Thanks for that reply Scroggs. Although I have decided on Civilian flying and going down the modular route whilst doing my PhD, I have not said its airline flying or nothing! To be honest, I'd fly anything, anywhere at anytime!

Anyway, cheers again.

Steve.

[Ridgerunner]

How would a Geoscience degree sit with sponsors? It encompasses a mixture of all sorts, Physics, Chemistry, Geography etc and you have to learn to use surveying equipment etc?

I have recently passed my PPL and have got through to the UAS at my Uni, but how would this degree be looked upon, as it is not pure maths/physics or engineering?

[Dozza2k]

shoot me if wrong but its my understanding about these sponsorships/airline jobs want you to have at least the basic academic qualifications, roughly 2 A levels? then its up to YOU. ie....confidence, teamwork, prioritising, maturity etc etc etc

I got an airline job with only A levels. (oh, and a B at intermediate GCSE maths !!!!!)

[scroggs]

Ridgerunner if you have knowledge of any sponsorships, then you presumably have access to the requirements of the potential sponsors? If you do, you will presumably have read these requirements and thus will know whether or not your degree is acceptable to them. Oh - please share details of these sponsorships with the rest of us!

On the other hand, if you are asking (as I suspect) in the hope that there may be some sponsors out there somewhere, I'm afraid you're likely to be disappointed. All the major training schemes out there are paid for by the student. The funding may be arranged by the FTO, but it's you who signs on the dotted line, and it's you that owes the money even if a job isn't forthcoming.

As for qualifications, a brief search of this website and those of the training schemes I refer to will demonstrate that a degree is not required of any student of any of these courses, so your question is superfluous.

Scroggs

[The African Dude]

Sorry - only meant 'aspects' would be of use - such as resolving vectors and the like. Never said that it was a requirement and a quick scout of these boards would show it's not. You can pick which opinions you want to accept and Scroggs, maybe he should indeed ignore me, but my opinion was offered in good faith :)

[scroggs]

OK, AD, but it didn't come across that way - hence my remark. Sorry if it was a bit brusque!

Scroggs