Working in Turkey

[PICUS Turkish]

Hi Folks,

I'm a pilot student at RWL German Flight Academy here in Germany. But I'm also a turkish citizen.

Well, this summer I was talking with the fleet manager of the A340 from Turkish Airlines. I asked him many questions about finding jobs in Turkey and I was really surprised what he said. In Turkey, there is a increadible pilot shortage. He promissed me, that I would not have any problems to get a job there. But what do you thinks, lovely experts? I adress this post to all people who work in Turkey. How can I apply? Do the airlines in Turkey read the online applications, or should I knock on the door myself?

Well, one of my dreams is to work for Turkish Airlines oneday. Is anyone a pilot there? I would like to talk with you. I heard that you must have a completed university diploma. But what does it means? Can I study whatever I want, or do they choose what I have to study? And how long must be the study? 2 or 4 years? And how can I get the "YÖK denklik belgesi"???

Well, the military part is not so a big problem for me. I'm going to the army for 1 month a pay for that 5000 EUR.

And what about the Type Ratings in Turkey? Few days ago, I flew with the crew of AtlasJet in an Airbus A320 and asked the captain about the Type Rating. He said, that the company will pay the T/R first, but than I have to work for the comapany for several years. Actually, it sounds not bad. Than I would have a job gaurantee.

I allready read the SunExpress post. How is the atmosphere at Turkish Airlines?

Is there any skills at TK to get a job there? I will end the flight training in January 2007. How would be the capacity in Turkey in 2007? Will it grow further? And I wrote that I'm a turkish citizen, do you mean, that I would have any advantages, 'cause of that?

Thank you very much for your answers.

PICUS

[PICUS Turkish]

OK Guys,

I see that this subject is a little bit difficult, when you read the "SUN EXPRESS SAFETY STANDARDS" thread.

But now a new question: When more and more airlines but TK is controlled by the military, does anyone who visited a civil flight training has a chance to become a FO there? I mean, when I read here the threads I find out, that the military part is going to put their own pilots into the airlines. What about with people like me. I am a turkish citizen and I am ready to move to Turkey.

TK is in my oppnion one of the best airlines in Turkey. I heard that they stopped to involve the ex air force pilots, because they are too dangerous for the airline. Now they are hiring the pilots from "Anadolu University Flight Training" in Eskisehir, Turkey.

But there is a problem with TK, they are a part of the government yet. So that they just take people, who finished with the university. But I also hears everywhere that TK also hires people from other nationality, 'cause of the pilot shortage in Tukey. Have they their diplomas? How they get the "tasty" jobs? When anyone is out there, who works for the company, please contact me.

Thx


PICUS

[The Blue Max]

Cant tell you much about TK. However, within OHY there are now a fair number of foreign pilots (inclding myself) from all over the world. Pilot shortage in turkey??? You bet!!
Lots of charters expanding plus a few new start-ups.

Why dont you join one of those, build up your hours and then get into TKY???

Anyway, best of luck.....

[LHmain]

PICUS, yes the foreign pilots can look like they get the cream jobs. We pay for this with no job security and the knowledge that we will be replaced by locals as soon as possible and in difficult times we will be the first to go. I have to say though Turkey is a great place and many will want to go there.

[PICUS Turkish]

OK thanks for the answers,

but how did you apply there and for which airline do you fly? You can also PM me.

I would like to work for any airline in Turkey, but what about with Type Rating? I have no T/R and no hours on jet. Is it possible to get there a job with these options? I will finish with the flight training in January 2007 maybe. Should I apply now, or should I wait until I get my frozen ATPL???? This is one of the most important questions?

Thanks

PICUS

[Özcan]

Selamlar!

I'm a turkish citizen aswel (born and living in sweden), i'm 17 right now and finishing my PPL and i will do my fATPL after summer and move home to Turkey as well when i'm done. I've spoken to quite a bit of people and they say that if you have a turkish passport jobs are quite easy to come by as long as you're a turk (not only on the passport ;) )

The people i've asked got their typerating with their bonding to the company but i don't see this as a problem, even when on an entry salary and still having to pay a little each month for your rating, living in Turkey is still so cheap that you'll do fine and you got a job guarantee wich is the most important thing to think about

Accordingly to what i've heard recently THY is recruiting civil, however i think they require 4 years of university degrees in Turkey or something like that. Do not take what i've heard too roughly because I'm not very sure about it either.

Keep working at it and maybe we'll fly together at home one day

iyi günler ve iyi ºanslar

/Özcan

[PICUS Turkish]

Selam Özcan and thanks for your post,

well, I wanna describe now a situation in Turkey that maybe change your minds.

THY has stopped to recruit pilots from the air force. They hire civilan pilots. But they also want a university diploma. Because THY is a part of the government. But I don't know if it the diploma must be for 2 years or 4 years. And I also don't know if it is important what you have studied.

All other airlines in Turkey does not have such a requirement. But in Turkey there is a problem which is growing. If you want to work in Turkey as a turkish citizen you must have a 2 years diploma, because oneday if you worked for a airline for several years and if the time comes that you are now ready to be upgradet as a captain, you need this stupid thing. For all not turkish citizens, you needn't this ****.

So if you're a NOT tukish citizen and you want to work in Turkey => No PROBLEM. Go there and build up your hours. You will be the first to go, if the pilot shortage get closed.

If you ARE a turkish citizen, you MUST HAVE a minimum 2 years diploma in your hands. There is no way out of this rule. Thanks to the Turkish Air Force, the Turks in Ankara brought out a new airlaw. This airlaw is absolutely an advantage for turkish air force pilots who wouldn't have any problems now to work in the civilian sector. But for all turkish citizens means that, we have to study first.

But why is it so? Well, the answer is quite easy. All Turkish Air Force pilots have to visit the University in Turkey. They study there to become an Air Force pilot. That's it!

But for all turkish citizens: If you have any connections with someone in the airline, than maybe the person could open your door.

I heard now, that Sun Express emloyed 20 new pilots from InterCockpit in Germany. All german pilots. What about with us??? With turkish citizens? Must we wait under the rain???

So there must be some changes.

PICUS

[Özcan]

Hello picus

Do you know if the university diploma must have been issued in Turkey?

If Turkey wants to get into the EU they will have to change over to the EASA (the new regulations to replace JAA, and it will not be voluntary like with JAA if i remember right) i'm pretty sure that the strange conditions will be removed when all aviation authorities are controlled from the same authority

[PICUS Turkish]

Ach ach Özcan,

I hope with all other turkish pilots like us, that oneday this rule will be changed.

Well the turkish diploma or degree MUST be issued by the Turks. So if you have a diploma from a foreign university out of Turkey, you must go to the YÖK and take your "DENKLIK BELGESI". With this very very very important thing you will have your diploma issued by the Turks, but studied elsewhere. And please be careful on which University you go. Not every university in Turkey excepts the university where you are. That's it.

PICUS

[guclu]

Dear friends,

1)

Turkish Airlines recruits from Turkish Airforce. Who sad that they are not ?


2)

For Turkish Airlines you have to have graduated from a 4 year University (as far as I know it is not important but they prefer engineering and aeronautical degrees). If the university is outside Turkey you have to present a "YOK denklik belgesi" stating that this university is an accaptable university.

For other airlines there is no such request.


Hope it helped.

Guclu

[PICUS Turkish]

Guclu, you have post! ;-)

[PICUS Turkish]

Sajko,

go to the homepages of the airlines and fill the online applications. Than wait. But Type Rating would be an advantage for you. Anyway good luck.

PICUS

[bafanguy]

Had to laugh at the Pegasus HR online application form. It won't accept a year of birth earlier than 1950 !! This must be a subtle way of telling us old guys not to bother.

Anyway, even when I filled it out...it didn't work when I tried to submit it. All that typing for nothing...

I didn't see any other email or fax contact information for Pegasus on the website.

[Özcan]

IT is still something new in turkey :O

your chances should be alot bigger if you went there knocking doors instead!

[bafanguy]

Ozcan,

No doubt you are correct.

[2Bad2Sad]

Caution please beware, One turkish company now banned from France, FLY AIR, serious saftey complaints.
Dec 5th blacklist published if banned from one then banned from all, no land an overflights 25 EU countrys forbidden.
Effective early 2006.
Look CNN and BBC for current news.

[GoldenFalcon]

Hi Picus Turkish,
I wanna give you some advices as a experienced agabey.
I recommend you to start flying in europe. Because, guys like you with 250Hrs, it is very important to have a very strong basic knowledge. The initial basic jet training in the airline is very important. You will catch many things in the first airline type-rating and in the future you will build up your career on top of it.
Therefore, the place Turkey is wrong for you guys. There is no airline, who can give you a nice experience. Maybe in a practice yes, but in the theory, I dont think so. SunExpress is still the best in Turkey. Even Sunexpress i would not recommend for you anymore. The airline is not like before. Now the company is in the 76 militaries hands, with no idea what is CRM is. It was one of the best in europe, in safety, in training and in payment. Many expilots of Sunexpress are flying now in a major airlines like Emirates, GulfAir. LTU, Qatar. Why ? Because they are started their airline carreer with a good company at that time.
You think TK is the best in Turkey, but its not true. Its the unsafest one in Turkey. Look at the crash numbers in the last couple of years.The military dinasorias they will not counting you as a pilot and will not give you the controls. Because you are young and civilian. They are still thinking, what for standing this alphabets CRM.
Thats why my friends, start your carreer where you can learn more to prepare you for future..
If you ones have the experience and the knowledge then you can go to Turkey to help new civilian pilots like you now. Turkey needs fresh blood and ´´canavar gibi gencler´´ like you in future. We have to finish dinasorias time in Civil Aviation in Turkey.
I wish you good luck:ok:

[SeattlePilot]

Ozcan,
IT is not new in Turkey, the airlines are not really good at them. They don't care about the website management, they don't know about the PR, it's all because the good old attitude of "airline = ex-military pilot".

THY's website is pretty functional..

Onur's , Fly's suck big time.. One should not find interesting the parallelism between how functional the website is and how well the airline is ran..

Bafanguy, try to fax your resume to Pegasus. If you'd like I can pick one up for you when I go there in Xmas.

SeattlePilot (aka FlyingtoIST from the "other" list) :)

[PICUS Turkish]

Hi,

well, finding jobs in europe as a turkish citizen is a little bit more difficult than in Turkey. If you have no Type Rating, no experience on type with min. MTOW 5,7 tonnes than forget it.

It is really very important that you have a passport which allows you to work and live in the EU. So you need a EU passport. I have actually a visa here in Germany which allows me to work and live in Germany, but the german companys would prefer someone who is a german nationality. So why should I try to work in Germany if I have the chance to work in Turkey more easily? I want to live there and to work there. It would be not a problem for me. And in my oppinion, not every ex-miliary-pilot is a strange and dangerous pilot there. I know some of them, who are quite good guys.

Yes, I want to make my dreams come true with the aviation and it is my deepest wish to become an airline pilot oneday. I hope that the safety standards will change as soon as possible and I think, it is also in our hands (I mean here all turkish pilots) to put a signal in Turkey. We will see it.

Best regards

PICUS

[anatolian air]

hi picus turkish

i wanna correct a mistake!
in turkey you can get nice experiances with your first training.you are in germany and you can easily search thoroughly about lufthansa type training!you will see that lufthansa and sunexpress are helping each other.and also tk has the most known training department of europe.realy.and also freebird airlines has the best operation certificate of airbus 320!given by AÝRBUS!

for tk you have to greduate 4 years univercity and that school must be approved by the yök.

last one; in my country everybody is talking but nobady is doing something...(just look at sunex safety standarts);)

i am not a member of sunex but all pilots in turkey know that sunex is the best charter company of turkey.

[housewife]

Sunexpress was the best charter company in turkey before 76 mafia took over, now its not that perfect anymore, definatly not for civilian pilots. Wish it would be different but the atmosphere in the company is dangerously bad.

Good luck but.

[despegue]

What about Pegasus?
Heard good things about their ops. and standards...

[Payscale]

Gynaidem, gentlemen.
What is 76 mafia?

Payscale

[Earl]

76 Mafia?
Was asking the same thing.
Perhaps to do with the retired military pilots that have moved on to the airlines creating a new set of standards?

[Özcan]

hehe have a look at sunexpress thread, it's been thoroghly dicussed there

[sun737pilot]

Hi guys,

some lecture for you.


76 MAFIA MEANS A BUNCH OF DANGEROUS INCOMPETENT EX MILITARY IDIO.. WHO GRADUATED IN 1976. THE MOST DANGEROUS GROUP IN TURKISH AILRINE INDUSTRY. YOU CAN FIND THEM IN NEARLY EVERY AIRLINE.

THE IDIO.. IN SUN EXPR@@SS are very strong because they are supported by GM, &%$#$%


BUT FOR LOW EXPERIENCED GUYS A GOOD MOVE. BUT DONT EXPECT TOO MUCH, NO SAFETY, LOW STANDARTS BUT BEATIFUL COUNTRY, GOOD FOOD AND NICE GIRLS.

Atlas and onur are the best right now. Avoid sun.

[CDB.A300]

Actually the best place to be is MNG in Turkey.
No word of any Mafia here, nice conditions, nice people and very fun.
Good luck to all martyr Pilots of SunExpress.
Bye bye !

[ACP]

The Blue Max, please check your PM, thanks

[european champion]

If i have understood correctly a lot of companies are being run by x military personel.any chance for a greek pilot?would it be worth to apply or my cv would go straight in the dustbin?

[diverine]

Not at all. I know couple of Greek pilots flying for Onur Air and Inter Air. I suggest you apply.
Best of luck!

[MaxBlow]

Hi all,

there're good outfits in Turkey. Best of all used to be Sunexpress.
Following the topic (safety standards) I unfortunately have to change my mind.

Turkey is a great country but when it comes to aviation somewhat
screwed up.

The number of airlines coming and going every year is surprisingly high - and if you look who is behind them (owns them) you'll always find the same names.

Rather small tour operators try to form an airline whereas they try to keep it as cheap as possible. Where do they safe?
Training, mx and labour costs.

Until just a few years ago there was no real flight school for civilians. That explains the high number of military pilots (still way over 90%). All management and instructor positions are filled by these guys and they have their very own way of doing things.

Why is it like this?
The CAA is playing a big role in this as well. It will have to change but also will take a couple of years.

As a military pilot you'll get into the left seat after a year of flying for an airline. As a civilian...well you can imagine!

Stay away from FLY and Onur. I know that nothing changed since they've been banned. Maybe their paperwork is in order now, but the same people are still in charge.

When it comes to websites:
Yes it is new to most of the companies and the old way would still be the best way. Go to the office, present your cv, have a cup of tea with the c/p and you might get a job. It helps when you know someone who knows someone (like in every other company).

I've been there, had a great time but have no plans to do it again for known reasons.
:rolleyes:

[sun737pilot]

If you really need a job or u want bo build some hours than go for it otherwise you will get an ulcer.

Sun Ex was the best airline managed by competent guys. But now it is like all the others , @ns@fe, extremely, but thanks god to Boooing and aiiiiirbuuuuuuuus. Protections, Warnings etc etc.

Trainingstandarts worse than in Uganda. I am not kidding. I am very very serious.

18 pilots left sun ex within 1,5 years. Because of the military system. ITs getting dangerous.

Imagine the Trainingsboss of Sun was actually failed in Hamburg, he was actually failed during his Sim , and than training. And now he is doing training. So think about it.

The previous TM of Sun was a guy with excellent performance. He got an excellent report from LH where he did his Upgrade training.

They fired him with dirty tricky games because he was good.

And the GM is somebody without any backbone and honour.

But again to built hours to find a better job its a good deal. But be careful these guys are dangerous.

[bafanguy]

It has been recommended by a couple of people here that one should just head for Turkey and start knocking on doors to get a job there. While I recognize the value of face-to-face contact, how practical is the suggestion ? I admit I'm a total novice at the expat world and know that I don't know; that's why I'm asking all of you.

I have difficulty believing one can just hop a flight to IST with a pile of resumes, start going around knocking on doors and hope to be allowed to see chief pilots. This is so far from how it's done over here that I can't see it actually working.

Here, no one gets is to see any airline HR manager or chief pilot without an invitation generated by an application or resume being emailed/faxed in advance. Any attempt to do so would only result in being stopped at the front gate by security. This would be an expensive exercise if it were a total failure.

I'd love to be able to sit down with a CP and plead my case but just can't head for IST with nothing more than high hopes.

Has this approach worked for any of you who didn't go through an agency ? Thanks.

[sun737pilot]

hi bafanguy,

this of course works only if you are a turkish citizen. If you know somebody in the company or somebody who knows somebody in the company is a great help and advantage as well.


good luck

[european champion]

Exactly the same thing in Greece,u can only get a job if u know someone from the company or perhaps the prime minister,there is no other way.

[bafanguy]

sun737pilot,

I'm afraid I'd have a tough time convincing them I was a Turkish citizen...

I have good Turkish friends here in the States, but that's probably not close enough.

[The Blue Max]

Hi guys,

Already a lot is said about this topic.
One straight fact I can tell is the following:

If you are an expat(wannabee) wanting to work in turkey,

you need a type rating with at least some experience on it.

Agencies generally ask for at least 500 hours on type.
But I know of one turkish company that invited a foreign pilot for interview with 150 hours on type.
Yes there is a shortage of pilots here but right now they need experienced expats.
What is said about websites is true, they are not reliable.
If you no someone inside you're one step ahead, if not:
give the company a call, call them back and then.....give them another call. (they're extremely bad at returning calls).;
Go knock on doors if you live around but dont come here on a one way trip with a bunch of cv's.

I cant comment on the chances for non rated turkish pilots but my bet is you have a better shot to get in than non rated expats.

Correct me if I'm wrong

Dangerous??? Not (yet) in my short experience.
Lots of room for improvement???? Absolutely.

Still, in the words of Sun737

to built hours to find a better job its a good deal

Anyway best of luck to you all looking for a job here.

[sun737pilot]

Of Course not everybody is dangerous and incompetent. U can find them on both sides.

But Statistically spoken its getting worse. And as I said the A/C Models are so developed that nothing bad happens. I know the guys in sun very well. And believe me a huge number of captains are dangerous. Whats the meaning of dangerous?

They dont know the systems, they dont have good airmanship, no crm, no priorities, no english. The combination of all this plus overconfidence makes a dangerous pilot.

Do u understand what I mean.

[Özcan]

How are the chances for a turkish citizen with a type rating but no time on the type?

[SeattlePilot]

Bafanguy,
i think you have a chance if you send your stuff through the internet. I know SunExpress has a valid email address. I am not sure if they would take a look at it though.

Try also AtlasJet. I know their website works. As far as I recall you are not typed in A320, but they may prefer someone with experience over someone that doesn't have any experience and any type rating.

Be prepared to a lot of things being different compared to the way the things are run here in States. Just the example you mentioned on your post of how things are run in there.

I also know that Sky airlines is looking for crews and they advertised in Flight International. you may get a chance there.

Once again, expect the unexpected.

I am heading over there in 10 days to try to get in with an airline in the country i was born. The last experience i had , four years ago, was extremely unpleasent.. So, my advice would be, expect the unexpected..

Good luck to us all..

Seattlepilot (aka FlyingtoIST)

[bafanguy]

SeattlePilot,

As you suggest, I have sent my information to Sky, Pegasus, MNG, and Onur via their online applications ( where it worked ) and email.

It's interesting that many have said they need experience in Turkey yet they fail to respond when "experience" knocks on their door. It's the 21st century and electronic communication is the rule, not the exception. If they need and want experience in the cockpits, perhaps they should check their websites and email. After all, they are the ones who provided this avenue of communication.

I have done a bit of study about Turkey and talked at length to my Turkish friends. I think working there, for all its apparent challenges, would be a worthwhile experience.

It's all rather an interesting situation, but not a tragedy for me if I cannot connect with emplyoment there.

There are many pilots like me looking for a way to keep flying after completing our careers in other places ( and, no, we are not "owed" anything ).