Landing at Northolt

[nouseforaname]

Does anyone know what the situation would be for landing a Single Engine plane at Northolt. Landing at night would be the only reason for going there. And it's the closest to London.

Who are the best handling agents?

regards,

TD

[Captain Dilbert]

This will not be possible due to weight and balance considerations. No single engine aircraft will accommodate the mass of the wallet required to operate at NHT.

[chevvron]

From the AIP; single engine fixed wing only permitted to land under exceptional circumstances (at any time).
You'll have to contact WU Ops to find out what constitutes 'exceptional'.
Plus I think you'll find they only stay open long enough at night and at weekends for their own (RAF) aircraft; they're unlikely to stay open if you're the only movement (assuming you're civil that is!).
Plus the reason Capt Dibert gave.
Plus don't forget your passport if you intend to leave the airfield for business. (No I'm not joking; it's a security requirement and it's caught people out before!)

[Algy]

...and if you depart on 25 please take it easy as my dear old mum lives less than a mile out on the extended centreline and needs her kip. Thank you for your co-operation.

[nouseforaname]

thanks very much. I know someone who lands a GV there at night that's why I was trying to find out more.....

cheers

[Fried_Chicken]

Probably be a Netjets (or associated) GV then. They are classed as "based" at EGWU so can operate outside of published hours (for civilian traffic)

FC

[scambuster]

that's absolute eyewash! Netjets has to comply with the same restrictions as anyone else with regard to PPR and opening hours.

[Fried_Chicken]

Netjets do have to get PPR like everybody else but can operate outside published opening hours (for civilian traffic). Northolt is officially closed to Civilian traffic at weekends but Netjets operate various flights in & out of 'WU then

FC

[Daifly]

Indeed, under a fantastic competition-friendly agreement, NetJets have some aircraft "nominally" based at Northolt and are, therefore, residents.

Resident aircraft are not subject to the same restrictions as the rest of us humble taxpayers who have to abide by 08:00-20:00 Monday to Friday.

Always good of the Brits to support our own industry by making one of Betty's (and therefore our) airports an exclusive enclave for a Portuguese private member's club.

And who said life's fair...?! Bitter? Me!?!? :D

[Daifly]

You're talking out of it when you should really be sitting on it

> Thanks, not regularly accused of that, but your opinion of course.

Nominally???? Check out your info mate!!

> "Nominally" as in they have a number of aircraft based there and yet, as a result, any of their fleet of 90 (-ish) can use the place unrestricted - that's a "nominal" base, mate. My info's fine thanks.

Portuguese????? Head office in London, US owned.....it's only in Portugal because the rest of Europe, except Denmark, doesn't allow the kind of set up they run.

> Er... CS-??? Portguese AOC. When you own a share of a particular aircraft and yet you don't actually, or rarely, fly on it - well, to the rest of the world that would be classed as Charter (when it's not yours), so NetJets get around that by choosing the CS register. It will be interesting to see what happens when EASA replace JAR-OPS in the fullness of time. And if it's US owned it makes my argument (and the majority of the GA Community's in the UK) even stronger that an American Private Member's Club get virtually unrestricted access to an British airfield which we, and that includes you and me as, I assume, UK taxpayers, own!

I'm certainly not on my own in having this opinion - most UK operators feel the same that's why BBGA and GAMTA before it raised this exact issue with both the RAF and Government.

Exlusive enclave????? No way!!

> It's exclusive enough at weekends mate. RAF and Netjets only, unless you're lucky enough to tie in with one of their movements (and then of course they'll deny permission as it's getting towards their limit at the end of the year). Even under European competition law it's not exactly creating a level playing field...

This isn't exactly how the topic started so if you want to continue your "talking out of my arse" discussion let's make it PM?

[Halfa Daily]

Daifly

Was being sarcastic, didn't intend to be rude.......I apologise.

Unrestricted access is a HUGE over exageration.

As for the rest, I agree.......have PM'ed you.

[chevvron]

So do Net Jets have to pay for these openings if there's no RAF movments?

[LHmain]

Hooray for Netjets. They employ pilots.

[Daifly]

They do, but so do the rest of us who are unfairly penalised by the system - resulting in even more owners moving to NetJets (through skewed advertising of Northolt) which results in more pilots moving to them and then copious amounts of threads on here about life for their pilots is atrociously bad...!

OK, so perhaps I've moved that argument through to a conclusion that's not exactly likely to happen, but it just seems that, once again, UK operators are never given the level playing field that other countries provide to their own industry. In all honesty could you see the French Government approving the use of Villacoublay for a foreign operator ahead of one of their own operators? Honestly?

It's not a go at NetJets, it's a go at the RAF system whereby based operators are given preferential treatment for slots. My argument is the fact that NetJets don't actually have specific aircraft based there, just a "nominal basing" for all of their entire 80 aircraft fleet - and that's just NJE...

I'm not sure whether I'm winning any argument here or whether I'm just depressing myself further with the state of British corporate aviation. Obviously if I am winning, support would be gratefully received!

[smallfry]

Daifly,

I don't know much about it, but you seem very bitter about Northolt and Netjets.
As far as I can see there isn't any conspiracy. Netjets invested in Northolt and provides employment in the UK in a meaningful way. NetJets is not just a Portugese operator. It is an European operator, with pilots, staff, contractors, suppliers, and support from most European countries. ( still with a large percentage of those being British). Its Lisbon operations staff are multieuropean too, its not this mononational foreign operator you seem to paint it out to be.

The truth is it is big, and big means commercial strength. It probably employs more Brits than most of the UK GA market put together.( Not based on any information, just a guess). I realise it might take business form smaller operators, and that is regretable, but this is a business, not a charity. I believe most of NetJets new owners are new to bizjet flying anyway, which means NetJets (and other Fractional schemes) are creating new markets anyway.

We as Brits cannot expect the UK government to step in everytime a successful multinational wants to do business in UK. Or is that what you want? How would that improve our market?

I realise that this has slipped from the Northolt argument, but I drive past Northolt often, and what I can see over the fence, is as many non NetJet aircraft as NetJet.

Don't shoot me down, its nothing personal, and I am not professing to know your situation at all.

regards,
small

[Shagster]

Back to your original query......Singles are not "banned" from Northolt. The problem is that Northolt lies within the London Control Zone (class A airspace) and this is where the restrictions on singles lie. You need to get dispensation to enter the CTR from the appropriate authority and include this authority with your PPR application.


ps NJE pay alot for their extra services

[Fly Better!]

OK, so perhaps I've moved that argument through to a conclusion that's not exactly likely to happen, but it just seems that, once again, UK operators are never given the level playing field that other countries provide to their own industry. In all honesty could you see the French Government approving the use of Villacoublay for a foreign operator ahead of one of their own operators? Honestly?

Erm in a word .... NO!

:}

Very well put and I agree with your thoughts 100%