BA "new"( New) Club World 2006

[purr777]

Well it would seem that BA are about to launch what they deem a revolutionary business class cabin. However, from the sketchy plans available it appears that the service is based around what other airlines already have and what BA currently do in their FIRST class.

"Major" plans include:-

Individual service a la eat-when-you-want with "tailored" menus, designed for the modern traveller (calorie content, fat etc) (Good luck BA crews!!). I'll have my low-calorie Japanese style meal at 15:22, please.

Upgraded entertainment ( including for WT+/WT cabins), which will be the same as Virgin's V-port (ie passengers control when and what they watch, text service etc...)

Redesigned 747 cabin layout with a sophisticated lounge style "feel". Current plans see WT+ as 90% likely to be moved forward, but upper deck not ruled out as reverting to M/W class config as in the early 1990s.

Internet access

and...specialist training for all longhaul crews to refocus on passenger needs. No comment.

While I applaud any innovative moves, I feel other airlines are currently offering most of the above already!!!

ps lots of " " :D

[flyer55]

All to be revealed in the New Year !

[Tandemrotor]

"I feel other airlines are currently offering most of the above already!!!"

Kinda makes you wonder how BA ever became the World's most profitable airline, don't it?

[purr777]

flyer55 - But the profits you highlight mask the huge (actually, out of control and worryingly poor) pensions deficit. Announced profits minus the pension deficit = ? (as brilliant profits??)

So yes, on the surface profitable, but actually look at the figures and it's not as rosy. And the main reason BA has a near catastrophic pension problem is because it has been brushed under the carpet for years.

Food for thought.

[Robboflyer]

It's all too easy to knock BA. As a regular flyer (at least 4 sectors a week) I think their service on the ground and in the air is second to none. But above all it is BA, not Virgin or any of the others, who have been the product innovators, both in First and in Club World.

Sure others have copied them, so they now need to do further improvements to stay ahead. But we have a lot to thank BA for.

[sixmilehighclub]

It's easier to learn from others mistakes. After all we don't live long enough to learn from our own mistakes.

All airlines learn from eachother, and indeed, from the information you give purr, other airlines are offering most of it already, but not everything on ONE airline.

A lot of what will be changing is still under wraps too.

Like any business, they must move with change, demand and if something is working well for the opposition why change the formula?

[keeperboy]

BA are shelling out £100M on the new cabin re-fit so i'm guessing the cabin is gonna be good.

BA are only going to offer what other airlines already do?

Don't think so. Correct me if i'm wrong, but only five or six airlines in the world (BA & VS included...and now also EOS) offer true, 180 degree lie flat beds. Other airlines offer what they describe as 'lie flat style seats'. In other words, flat, but angled to the floor, and some of em quite angled indeed!

It is the bed that sells. Anyone that works on long-haul or indeed that travelled in Club (especially on the 'Sleeper Services') will know what I mean. Two minutes after take off the eye shades are on and the pax has changed the seat to a bed. On most of our routes these are business peeps that have meetings the same/next day and just want to maximise their sleep. You do get a few 'shelling out on a once-in-a-lifetime luxury holiday' types, or leisure travellers, but they are definitely make up no more that 20%.

BA already have a full mock up in some port-a-cabins @ LHR. These have securicor guards there 24/7 and those that have been given the tour have to sign confidentiality agreements. Those that I know that have been describe it as 'amazing'.

Agreed, many things will be along the lines of currently offered by others and desperately need updating. A la carte dining, AVOD, internet, self service bar a la Qantas style etc. But the actual seat and cabin environment is apparently out of this world.

The cabin crew training that was referred to at the thread start is not related to the new Club product, although the product will be discussed on the day. It is called 'Premium Academy' and will first be attended by Pursers. It will focus on ensuring 'consistency' of service in Club, apparently something that isnt happening.

Something odd will happen with the new cabin as well. BA being BA likes to fit as many 'premium' seats in and as few WT seats as possible. Currently, on the 747, Club starts in B zone (doors 1) and continues down to doors 2 (low J config) or doors 3 (high J config). But the 'new' Club config will not fit into B zone as the cabin is a tad narrower there. So, WT+ will be moved to B zone, in front of Club, and Club will continue down to doors 4 on the 'high J' aircraft, or where WT+ currently is on the low J. :confused:

[normal_nigel]

I've just seen the new training programme.

Its quite simple. All you have to do is repeat after me.

"I will not rush the service to maximise bunk rest"

"I will not put the window blinds down 30 seconds after the service to maximise bunk rest"

"My mission before a flight will not be to moan when I find out it's full of our premium revenue passengers, because it will infringe on my maximising bunk rest"

"I will not go sick for Wimbledon/Henley**"

** delete as appropriate.

"I will not demand extra money for going to places I don't like"

There that should do it. New Club World service and some money savings to boot.

[OzzieO]

NN Not a BA reject by any chance are you?

[HZ123]

I have seen the new world with its sumptious vision and it is not bad. However, if you expect innovation forget it, you will get a variation on a theme. There is only so much you can do with the budget and space provided. Much will depend on CC commitment and our regular passengers. one has already stated that we seem to be the best !

[Sans Anoraque]

Maybe one day they'll also get rid of their scowling harridans, stop going on strike, stop filling terminals with queing passengers and stop charging double their competitors price.

And before BA CC rush to complain - I've heard it all before and like an awful lot of SLF won't fly BA if there's any alternative whatsoever.

[Xeque]

I really don't understand.

I regularly fly on an airline that upgrades its Biz Class to fill First Class then goes through it's frequent fliers in Economy to fill Biz Class up. It then fills the resultant vacant seats with more economy pax. Result. A full aircraft and a profitable sector.

I do not believe that the privileged few who occupy the first 1/3rd of the available cabin space are actually (really) contributing to the airlines profit.

I have said it before and I will continue to say it particularly during the introduction of the A380 and its (promised) extra space for all.

Make all wide bodied aircraft like the 777, 330/340 ONE CLASS STANDARD with a reasonable seat pitch (like 40 inches).

Create special aircraft (perhaps and ER 320 or 737) with fully reclining sleeper beds and all the luxuries that a Premium Class passenger would expect and do away with the distinction between First and Business.

I don't care how much you spend on a First or Business Class seat (fully reclining or otherwise). You are still going to be sleeping in your clothes with no chance of a proper shave/shower/change of clothing before the aircraft lands.

[apaddyinuk]

Purr777....
Can I ask exactly where you got your information? Yes BA are relaunching their club product and by the sounds of it it really will be something else! But some of your information I have yet to hear! I have seen some of the things which are coming up at the "premium academy" course which all BA longhaul crew will be doing for the relaunch and very few of the things you mentioned are there...for instance,the eat when you like thing is news to me and most BA people especially in the product department which I have an ear or two in!!!
But lets hold off and actually wait and see what happens.
Remember, BA set the standard of all future business travel when the launched Club World 5 years ago, now they have the oppurtunity to improve on an already brilliant design to yet again get ahead of the competition!!!

[Birds2perches]

I think it's easy to BA bash but you can't dispute they are leaders in the market, and yes, despite the huge gapping hole in pensions, they are in a lot better position than they were a few years ago so at least they've moved forward not backward like many american carriers.

This is my gripe with the CW cabin:-

Pax like the CW cabin but as far as being a crew member is concerned, it's the most difficult cabin to work in. I'm sick of balancing on my tippies waving to the pax in the centre because you can't reach them. This stretching and twisting is bad for manual handling. Since working in that cabin my back in knackered. I know in the 'ideal world' you're ment to flip the screen across, but we all know that doesn't work when you've got another pax also trying to eat/watch IFE. So my point is, why haven't they considered improving the practicality of working in this cabin?

[traveller5]

BA Club World is currently hit and miss, mainly because your experience and comfort depends on the attitude of the crew you get on the day. I have had good experiences on the LHR-USA legs and I've also had utterly vile ones because of the crews.

The fact that BA crews have to do a separate course on how to pour coffee nicely in business class sums things up!

[christep]

Xeque,

You've obviously never flown on a proper First Class (BA, CX, QF, etc.). You are provided with a "sleep suit" into which you can change and your clothes are put on hangers in a wardrobe while you sleep (in the case of the better airlines under a nice comfy duvet). It's also perfectly possible to have a shave before landing (2 toilets between 8-14 pax is enough)

[AFA]

Xeque,

I completely disagree. I don`t know what kind of airlines you`ve been travelling with but i think you`ll find full service companies such as BA or Virgin rely almost entirely on premium class traffic, ie the first 1/3rd of the aircraft for their profit. I know my company would prefer to dispatch with front 1/3rd full and the rest empty rather than the other way round.
As far as upgrading everyone forward to fill up the free seats from the front backwards i find that hard to believe or understand. For a start it would cause chaos at the check in stage. Can you imagine 50 biz pax all knowing that if they check in last they`ll be upgraded to first? We`d never leave on time. Also, why would anyone book a premium class when they know all they have to do is pick a flight when the loads in these cabins are light and they`ll be upgraded. More problems would occur once on board. Most airlines only cater for the number of people they expect in each cabin. If the numbers increase it would fall on the unfortunate cc`s head to decide who gets fed and who doesn`t. Finally, nothing, absolutely nothing p*sses off a full fare paying premium passenger than sitting next to or in a cabin full of economy pax who`ve paid less than a quarter of what he/she has to sit there.
This happens on exceptional occasions of course but in my company we are quite strict. People with legitimate upgrades, frequent flyers (with enough points accrued) or staff for instance are upgraded on a space available basis, everyone else stays in the class they booked. Allows us to depart on time once in a while and prevents anarchy in the cabin. If you want an upgrade, pay for it.
Anyway, back to the thread.

[sixmilehighclub]

The fact that BA crews have to do a separate course on how to pour coffee nicely in business class sums things up!
Have you never had to go on a refresher course for anything? Like cabin crew review their medical and saftey skills everyday
and are retested annually, office staff in customer services have to go on courses every year to get up to date with what the company is trying to focus on for the future, and like many companies offer development courses, whats wrong with a course reiterating exceptional customer service and how to deliver it?

People change, get complacent, bored. Courses like this one will be designed to try to freshen up skills, remind crew why they're there and hopefully give them a chance to refocus.

[A300Man-2005]

Slightly off topic, but my personal opinion, is that I hope they get rid of the rear facing seats in Club World.

I always seem to end up in one of those. For the record, I actually preferred the previous style (cradle) seating, which was always a pleasure sit in, especially in the seclusion of the J Class upper deck on a B744.

[apaddyinuk]

Have I missed something??? Where we all sent on courses to learn how to pour coffee differently for Club Pax or is some **** telling porkys again??? :}

And A300-Man....If your ever on one of my flights in Club...Ill make sure your facing forward.... Anything for an old colleague!!! Ill be in DOH next month on a nightstop!!!! LOL!

[Hand Solo]

Its called Premium Academy.

[HZ123]

Having seen it, I cannot imagine anyone is going to get to excited.

[apaddyinuk]

Hahahaha....Oh yeah that!!! I think Premium Academy is more a last ditch effort to get the pursers to sing from the same hymn book which is the one problem with our current service!!! The delivery of the Club service is not exactly difficult but my god do a lot of the pursers make it so!!!!

[A300Man-2005]

Paddy, I am sure you can keep them right. :ok:

[apaddyinuk]

A300-MAN, Id simply show them the how QR do it!!! HAHAHAHA!!! Oh hang on, that was organised chaos!!! LOL! See you in Doha next month!

[ChewyTheWookie]

What's wrong with the rear facing seats?

[backseatjock]

During a recent LHR-HKG flt one of the pursers was telling me how much crew who had knowledge of the imporved Club World were quite dreading its launch.

Notwithstanding any improvements to the slightly narrow and short (though still better than most) beds, the main worry is how J class pax will enjoy being behind WT+ - especially when the SLF starts the mad dash to the exit on touchdown sketch.

Some issue too with the number of toilets for number of J class pax in the new 'cabin'. Should be interesting!

To anyone who thought this might be a trial layout, in order to test customer reception, apparently that is not the case. Same purser was telling me kit has been ordered for fitment across the fleet.

Some good news though. Apparently the upper deck on 747s will remain J class - even more of a scramble to reserve my seat up there from now on.

....excuse the typos on above posting! One question, if anyone can answer at this stage. Will the new BA J-class bed layout be a-la-Virgin ie: at something like a 45 degree angle to fuselage?

Have seen a few interesting reactions to that layout on t/o!

Makes facing backwards, for those who have a problem with that, seem positively normal. The new VS beds and \'personal space\' are pretty good it has to be said - although they could only be better than that which went before!

....excuse the typos on above posting! One question, if anyone can answer at this stage. Will the new BA J-class bed layout be a-la-Virgin ie: at something like a 45 degree angle to fuselage?

Have seen a few interesting reactions to that layout on t/o!

Makes facing backwards, for those who have a problem with that, seem positively normal. The new VS beds and \'personal space\' are pretty good it has to be said - although they could only be better than that which went before!

[Hotel Mode]

There should be no issue with toilets, zone C is already all Club on half the aeroplanes and i have never heard any complaints. Most destinations disembark through door 2 or both 2 and 1 so again no major problem. Even if it is door 1 they will only allow the left WTP aisle to disembark so you'll only be 16 behind. I believe the improvement will be so great as to make any disadvatages seem minor.

[MikeJ]

I've watched this thread as a simple Pax observer. Since a dreadful experience in the 70's in economy, I have never flown long haul that way. The coming of business class was wonderful, and, through the years, I rated BA with the best.

BUT, for the first time I sampled the current 'flat bed' in BA Club earlier this year on 777 to Tobago, and I found it awful. Tight elbow room, hard armrests, but above all, claustrophobic, no space. I used to fly Club for spaciousness.

I've just come back from NZ, flying Air New Zealand business class. Their flat bed was so much better, even to the extent of offering a guest to dinner sitting on the end flat footrest on the other side of the table, complete with seat belt if needed. But my wife and I agreed that all of these arrangements were so much less friendly when travelling with a companion, than the original cradle seats.

I wonder what would happen if an airline made 50% flat bed and 50% old spacious seat, and offered the choice?

Next, I'm going to try Virgin UC!
Mike.

[wingzakimbo]

MikeJ - when you fly Virgin UC, you will notice that they are very similar to ANZ business class seat - in fact identical.
Air NZ bought the rights to use the Virgin UC design

[PAXboy]

A mere pax speaking. Xeque ... and do away with the distinction between First and Business. This must come about as VS ignored have F right from the start and others have removed F. The PW/WT+ option is almost as good as the very first club was 30 years ago! HOWEVER once all folks have removed F, then someone will reintroduce it to gain perceived market share and so the cycle will continue!

christep You've obviously never flown on a proper First Class (BA, CX, QF, etc.). You are provided with a "sleep suit" into which you can change and your clothes are put on hangers in a wardrobe while you sleep (in the case of the better airlines under a nice comfy duvet). You mean like on VS - who do not have a proper First Class? ;)

--------------------
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[christep]

As I see it, VS Upper Class is First Class in all but name. Unfortunately, I have never had the pleasure of flying it since a) I'm hooked into OneWorld FFPs and b) it doesn't seem to get discounted enough for me to be able to afford it (unless you have access to a big corporate discount, which I don't). I can do a OneWorld Explorer 20 segment RTW ticket in First Class for about the same price as a long haul (e.g. LHR-HKG) Virgin Upper Class round trip.

[flyer55]

Both First Class and Club World excellent beds and service ( First more personal )

[Mutu]

I don't care how much you spend on a First or Business Class seat (fully reclining or otherwise). You are still going to be sleeping in your clothes with no chance of a proper shave/shower/change of clothing before the aircraft lands.

As a regular F class pasenger I use the complimentary sleepersuits provided by BA to sleep in and the crew kindly hang up my suit for me, which I then have pressed in the arrivals lounge.....I take up th space of approx 6 economy seats but pay 16 times the fare. I AM a profitable passenger

[Mutu]

MikeJ - when you fly Virgin UC, you will notice that they are very similar to ANZ business class seat - in fact identical.
Air NZ bought the rights to use the Virgin UC design

With respect that is rubbish. The new ANZ flat bed seat is actually a smaller scale BA first bed with a guest seat for dining etc, something which I have seen as a possible new new club world proposal

[EI-CFC]

With respect that is rubbish.

It really isn't. Air NZ licensed the bed from Virgin

Air New Zealand unveiled plans to redesign the interiors and cabins of its long-haul aircraft beginning with a NZ$160 million ($102.4 million) overhaul of its 747-400s. As part of the makeover, ANZ will eliminate first-class in favor of an upgraded business class cabin with lie-flat seatsbeds licensed from Virgin Atlantic and built by Contour Premium Aircraft Seating in Wales

Taken from http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb3078/is_200408/ai_n7722008

[concorde001]

Correct. Air NZ's business class seats are identical to Virgin's. Just take a look for yourself:
Air New Zealand:
http://images.airliners.net/photos/middle/3/5/6/963653.jpg
Virgin Atlantic
http://images.airliners.net/photos/middle/8/2/3/811328.jpg
Photos: Courtesy of Airliners.net

[sevenforeseven]

Virgin Atlantic already have a "dine when you want" service. Virgin also had premium economy beforte BA ever even thought about it.
Its a case of follow the leader.

[Hotel Mode]

Yeah like flat beds virgin thought of them first, they just didnt implement them until 6 years after BA.... As for dine when you want BA have been doing that in first since Flying boats.

[sevenforeseven]

Hotelmode, are we bitter?