Desperately seeking new topics..!!

[helimutt]

We need some more interesting topics to get our teeth into. Becoming a bit quiet in here recently and as I haven't got a flying position at the minute, I need mental stimulation.
Unless of course, someone can offer me some instructional work in the UK?

[Whirlygirl]

I tried, Helimutt.... got more of a response to the question I asked re the limits for the forward comp at the canadian site...
Replying to much of anything here it becomes a battle of wits with specific individuals.. that gets tedious..

[SPS]

We'll just have to keep trying, everyone got so used to fire and brimstone that it has left a bit of a void.

Its a little like a battle of wits but it does hone your fielding skills and makes me think more than twice before making any statement.....

Now should I have said that......? :)

SPS Oriented SN in a world geared to NS

[rotorfan]

Helimutt - I'd like to see some discussion on flying techniques following tail-rotor failure on a variety of ships. I'm a low-time R22 pilot with a bit of time in the CB300, too. I notice that not all helis have a vertical stab, so all yaw-control is by tailrotor only. How do these ships handle with dead pedals. Does it mean an immediate auto? I'd love to hear some stories of any pilots who actually had the failure, and also comments by experienced instructors. Also, what's your favorite way to demonstrate the problem? Thanks in advance.

[Thomas coupling]

Rotorfan: now that could be a good topic: "tail rotor failure". Why don't you start one on that...it should get quite lively?
It makes a change for someone else to start another fire!!!

http://www.gograph.com/Images-7298/AnimatedGif/redstar.gif

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Thermal runaway.

[SPS]

Rotorfan-

"I notice that not all helis have a vertical stab, so all yaw-control is by tailrotor only."

Sorry, can't go with that. It is just a combined V and H stab. It still helps with
directional stability about the yaw axis and also holds the tail down as you would expect a H stab. to do on may types. In that respect it is aiding stability about the pitch axis.

If that were not the case and the Heli suffered a COMPLETE loss of TR thrust then nothing, even entering auto would be likely to save it and the pilot.

First important thing on TR 'failure' (in my opinion) is that many of the occurrences heaped under this banner are completely misdescribed. If it still works but you lose control of its pitch (for whatever reason)then it is not a TR failure at all, but a TR control failure.

If the driveshaft breaks it also is not TR failure becuase you still have a viable TR but nothing is connected to rotate it. It is a TR drive failure.

Only if the blades become detached (for whatever reason) is it a true TR failure.

I know that Helimutt is poised and well able to describe the techniques used in the various situations above and I'll move over for him to describe them.

[helimutt]

I have to disagree with SPS slightly although what he says is true.
But. If a low time pilot is flying along minding his own business and suddenly
his tail rotor drive goes, a blade fails or the pitch change controls failed,
I would bet that his first thought would be "tail rotor failure", no matter
what the real cause was.
Depending on the type of helo he/she is flying (got to be PCorrect)then there would be the yaw to contend with.
In all of the above scenarios there will be no tail rotor control so if there is enough altitude, enough airspeed must be maintained to help the vertical stabiliser give some directional stability.
As it is reasonably easy to demo to a student a jammed TR, the possible vibration and severity of the yaw cannot be determined until it happens.
What if the pitch controls have jammed in one direction adding to the yaw?
If anyone has suffered from this I would like them to post what they did and what
the cause was. It's not exactly the most frequent cause of accidents but it doesn't
mean someone's mobile phone or (make up kit) isn't going to slip down to the pedals
and jam one of them at a critical moment.
I have been told of students locking up on the controls and jamming the foot pedals but
haven't experienced this myself yet.
I don't think it's necessary to enter auto immediately but this is one option if a
suitable landing site is directly below.
The a/c must be levelled with the skids (hopefully below the fuselage), and parallel
to the a/c's track.
If a run on landing is carried out(speed helping with directional control) then the
collective could be used to yaw the aircraft back in line with the landing track on
touchdown.
If you have either pedal stuck on you, I would doubt a safe or suitable landing could be carried out without the luck of a lottery winner.
Or I might just be talking a load of old B******s!!!!!!!!!

Forgot to mention that at low speeds, the a/c would probably start to rotate pretty quickly and not be recoverable.

[This message has been edited by helimutt (edited 13 February 2001).]

[The Nr Fairy]

This link points to an accident report involving a Police Twin Squirrel which had a T/R control failure at low level in the hover. Worth a read to see how the pilot coped with it.

http://www.open.gov.uk/aaib/jan01htm/gsaew.htm

[Thomas coupling]

Shall we start a new topic then!!!!


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Thermal runaway.

[lmlanphere]

concerning autorotation as a means of dealing with TR failures, I've wondered how the manufacturer who states that an auto is the only acceptable method of dealing with the situation expects the average pilot to compensate for the unavoidable yaw experienced during collective application just prior to touchdown....

[212man]

The manufacturer probably considers the result of the yaw before touchdown to be an acceptable result when compared to the consequences of not entering autorotation. ie Hitting the ground at great speed whist tumbling about all 3 axes.

No one said a TR failure is going to be manageable, and there is no certification requirement for it so to be. With luck, skill and knowledge, they can be dealt with given ideal circumstances and a forgiving type.

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Another day in paradise

[gokel]

I know about an accident with a 205 because the driver iniciated an autorotation when he lose left pedal in a deep aproach,thinking that he had lost tail rotor.

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[IHL]

I tried getting a topic going on professionalism and wages but it seems that there is not alot of interest in those areas.