!st job on the ramp, advice?

[powdermonkey]

Hi all,

I will be starting a new job as ramp agent(posh for humping luggage) next month. I am studying full time for my ATPL's and am doing this so I can hang around ac, make a bit of money to pay for my flying training etc.etc.

Having never done this sort of work before, I would be very interested in knowing what will be expected of me, what sort of jobs will I initially be doing, will I be assigned to work with someone who is already experienced, type of shift hours etc?

Would really appreciate advice from the people who have experience on the ramp. I would also like to find out how I can progress a little bit and work my way to a bit more responsibility?

Any input would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

[liverpoolmum]

I HAVE WORKED AS SECURITY AT MANCHESTER AIRPORT AND IM NOW AT LIVERPOOL AS LOST LUGGAGE AGENT. TRUST ME YOU WONT BE LEFT ALONE ON THE RAMP UNTIL YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING IVE ONLY WORKED ON THE RAMP AS SECURITY WATCHING YOU GUYS WORK HARD.
WORKING IN THE AIRPORT IS ONE OF THOSE JOBS YOU EITHER LOVE IT OR HATE IT.
BUT CAN YOU DO US GUYS IN LOST LUGGAGE A FAVOUR IF A BAG FALLS OFF PICK IT UP FOR US DONT RUN OVER IT PLZ LOL BEST OF LUCK ANN

[Abdel]

Worked as a ramp agent for Aviance at LHR.......


- Noise pollution - you absolutely must wear ear plugs or guards - even if everyone else isn't (Tinitus etc...)

- Air Pollution - breath through your effing nose!!

- Hard work (Extra hard work during School Holidays)

- Crap Pay - but overtime usually available at good rates

- Knee pain - you must wear those knee pads!

-/+ You may be required or encouraged to join a Union (most BA, Aviance workers do) - this is not necessarily a bad thing!


I was lucky I was at LHR - no night shifts for me, just lates and earlies, but depending on which airfield you are working at there may be a requirement to work nights...


+ Great opportunity to speak to flight crew/cabin crew/Captains etc

+ some interaction with ATC (minimal, over the radio, eg on push back)

+ interaction with Dispatchers, Flight Planners, Ops guys etc


so if you have an aim to learn about the industry you can....big time


. Transport - most staff drive to the airport - but check public transport deals - they generally are cheaper


Plus the feel when you are in a buzzing place like LHR - wow!

Plus, a few of my colleagues were Plane Spotters - this was heaven for them


But I doubt I'd return. Not to put you off!


Baggage/Cargo/Mail handling - climbing into aircraft holds!
Scanning and loading baggage into large metal bins (ULDs)
Driving vehicles such as steps, baggage belts etc
There may be opportunities to learn to drive a tug (pushbacks)

BEWARE - on lates - if the lst flight is delayed a number of staff must remain on site - you could end up going home real late, no lie.

You do sound keen - so after 6-12 months I would advise you to go for a supervisor or lead agent position - get supervisory experience whilst you're there

There will be lots of safety training before you start - LISTEN TO IT AND LEARN!!

There are always opportunities if you can see them - and then take them

I hope this is useful!


Abdel

[older_wiser]

Abdel

Must say your expeirences of working on the ramp for Aviance are in stark contrast to all the guys i know who work there !

The majority claim to be p***** off , overworked and underpaid, and that tends to be a general feeling across Lhr .
In fact the majority of ramp staff at the handling agents seem to going to BA who have been recruiting like mad, though the starting rates of pay there are pretty low most feel a stronger sense of security plus the added bonus of flights, pension etc
BA also have the added advantage of a Strong union which is lacking in the handling agents.

Also it's interesting to hear you say you have contact with crews etc.
When i worked on the ramp this was something that was a definate no no, and since i moved to ops / dispatch i have never known or would allow ramp staff onto aircraft whilst the crew are around.

[Ballymoss]

Having never done this sort of work before, I would be very interested in knowing what will be expected of me, what sort of jobs will I initially be doing, will I be assigned to work with someone who is already experienced, type of shift hours etc? :rolleyes:

I take it you had an interview and were offered the opportunity to ask questions as to what your future employ might entail?:*

Rgds
The Moss:ok:

[Abdel]

Older_Wiser,

Thanks for your post, keep in mind I worked at Aviance pre 9/11 and when it was British Midland (before selling the Handling Unit off to Aviance (and so experienced the threat of strike by our union)) and stayed there until mid 2002.....


>>>>The majority claim to be p***** off , overworked and underpaid, and that tends to be a general feeling across Lhr .

you're right, underpaid, i did mention that in my post (and that overtime is at a good rate), however, the negativity generally came from a lot of the staff themselves - the effectiveness of the union was undermined by these people, i believe.


>>>>>In fact the majority of ramp staff at the handling agents seem to going to BA who have been recruiting like mad, though the starting rates of pay there are pretty low most feel a stronger sense of security plus the added bonus of flights, pension etc
BA also have the added advantage of a Strong union which is lacking in the handling agents.

we in fact had a lot of ex-ba employees (and equipment!) who were seeking a return to ba! and they had a clocking on system, we didn't. you're right, the unions there are so much more effective and strong. ba are a more recognised and prestigious employer too.


>>>>>>>>Also it's interesting to hear you say you have contact with crews etc.
When i worked on the ramp this was something that was a definate no no, and since i moved to ops / dispatch i have never known or would allow ramp staff onto aircraft whilst the crew are around.

the nature of aviance's contracts means they handle a range of airlines, when i was there it included biman, sia, lufthansa, iberia, bmi, sas, and some others, it was not uncommon to be joined by a dispatcher before take off and have them explain their weight figures / loadsheets etc. sas had a small ops room in t2 or t3 - we'd often go in there for a chat. same with the cargo guys at aviance - i spoke to them about what they did.
flight crew would often get their bags direct from the aircraft hold - sometimes you'd get to see the same old faces, a 3 or 4 minute chat was always the polite thing to do.
maybe this has changed recently? i wouldn't be surprised.
i have spoken to ba aircraft-engineers about their job and sought to learn from them as much as i can.

my point to powdermonkey is to take these opportunities when they come.

[powdermonkey]

Hi Folks

Ballymoss

I had an interview last summer with Sky Handling Partners in EIDW, but couldn't take the job as my first module for the ATPL's were going to require a month off during their busy season.
I was told I would be driving steps, luggage, loading etc.

I just wanted to know what it was REALLY like from you guys who are doing or had done the work, to know what to expect.
I have to meet with them next week to give them my driver's licence and passport for ID check and presumably airside pass.
I have not being given the job officially, but as I was offered it last summer I am ( maybe prematurely ) assuming it's in the bag....

This will probably only be for December and January, so I want to work any shift, and as much over time as possible. I know the rate of pay is very low and it will be cold and hard work, but it's only for a short period. I would continue on if they want to keep me so that I may also work during the summer season, but my goal is ultimately the flight deck and this is what I am studying hard for and why I have given up my full-time job! In the mean time, I want to do the shifts at the airport, but I am under no illusion that this will be a picnic or that I will be interacting with the ac drivers, making loads of contacts etc.......just looking forward to working airside and being a bit of a spotter!!!!
If I can learn anything during my time on the ramp with regards to ops, dispatch or absolutely anything, then I will, as ABDEL stated, simply take all and any opportunities which may present themselves, may even get to do some work in dispatch eventually, mabe flight plans, load sheets etc...

Anyway, thank you all for your inputs, I'm looking forward to it!
Cheers:ok:

[older_wiser]

Abdel :

Take your points.

Sorry if you thought i was being negative but i didn't want powdermonkey getting the wrong idea about ramp work.
The points you made are generally true, i thought you meant that you were on Aircraft etc with flight crews.
As a dispatcher / Ops supervisor / load contoller i was always willing to share my experience with ramp / c/in staff however i found that not too many ramp staff were interested, they just want to tell you how to do your job not realising why certain things had to done in a certain way, that however never bothered me as i was ex ramp myself.

The best way to spek to flight crews outside of Working as a Dispatcher is to work either as a pushback driver or on Check in (at the gates).

That said i also feel having worked in all areas contrary to what is generally perceived that Check in is a natural progression to Ops i believe the natural route should be via the Ramp as Load planning / DIspatch is more natural to someone who has worked below wing than to someone who has spent time on Passport checks/ Seat Changes and special meals etc

[Irish Steve]

Powdermonkey,

Be VERY careful how much you let on about aviation knowledge or involvement!!!

Depending on which company you will be working for, there is a real danger that they will be only too happy to use that knowledge and possibly experience for as long as it suits them, and then at some stage, certain people in management will see your skills as a threat, and you WILL get shafted on the thinnest of excuses.

When that happens, you will also get very little help from a union, as it's more than likely that the person doing the shafting will be one of the union representatives, so there will be no enthusiasm about possibly threatening the shafter's position.

I speak from personal experience, be VERY careful!

From a work point of view, it's can be physically hard, often bitterly cold in the winter months, especially on the cargo flights at 0500 or thereabouts, often wet, and at times dangerous if you don't keep your wits about you and your eyes open. You will get masses of training about health and safety, and it's all important, and even more so when you see how some of the older hands will blatantly and regularly disregard the same rules on a regular basis. There was a fatatily at DUB a few years ago when a ramp agent was hit by a prop, and there were still people doing highly dangerous things on that aircraft type despite that incident.

The "average" 757 will have 200 to 250 bags, usually close on 20 Kgs, and you'll probably handle every one of them at least once, possibly twice per flight, and if you're short crewed, you may well end up handling the inbound and outbound bags, and it's supposed to be done in about an hour. That's close on 10 Tonnes!

The working environment at Dublin is dire, as the design of much of the baggage handling areas is diabolical, and at times dangerous!

Be extremely careful of fully loaded baggage containers when going in to the "new" 6 bay off loading area, depending on the weather, and the condition of the ramp, and the brakes of the towing tug, it's all too easy to end up not being able to stop, or get round the bend at the bottom of the ramp, and in the same vein, an LD8 baggage bin on it's side at the exit door of the "new" loading area is also fairly common, and if you're underneath it, it could kill you, as it contains possibly 80 to 100 bags!!!

Be very careful of the condition of equipment such as baggage dollies, cargo dollies and steps. Working brakes on most of these items are regarded as optional extras, and there are many other serious maintenance issues, a while back, a friend of mine reported 18 unservicable fire extinguishers on electric trucks, and a month later, they were still not replaced.

Ear defenders are essential if you plan a long term aviation career.

Baggage handling is the start, depending on which company you go to, you might also end up doing things like towing steps, toilet and water servicing, (usually reserved for the managment stooges), headset operations, pushback driving , and high loader operation, and if you're really good at licking, de icing. You might also be able to get trained on fork lift operation.

The other positions are usually only available after at least 6 months probationary period.

Despite what was said earlier, there are some occasions when you will get to meet and interact with flight crew, but not very often. A lot will depend on the tasks you are doing, if it's baggage handling, then you'll probably not get inside the aircraft, for some of the other tasks, you might, but security issues are making that less frequent.

[older_wiser]

I must admit, i tend to agree with a lot of Irish_steve says.
A lot will depend on who you work for, if you join a handling agent there will be more oppurtunities to climb the ladder quicker, but as steve says that may require making the right connections, if you join an Airline then progress will be slow if at all as no one leaves the top jobs.
Security also determines that it will be quite unlikely that you will get to speak to crew and even if you do again they will tell you very little.
Also many airlines are constantly looking to outsource, virtually all of Heathrow has now outsourced with the exception of BA,UA, AA & AC, who like i say the people at the top don't leave.
Virgin also handle themselves but their ops are at LGW, Load control is done by BKK and they just do turnaround co-ordination at Lhr, though they do have a traffic office.

[powdermonkey]

Irish Steve and Older_Wiser

Thanks a lot for that very detailed info. Obviously Irish Steve you have worked at Dublin and I appreciate your input on this.
It sounds DANGEROUS!!! I am used to being around ac, but only small ga ones like at Weston. I am always careful, but it is easy for things to go wrong. I hope the quality of training will be enough to make sure I don't f**K up. They did tell me that the little trucks, steps etc were tricky to handle and that the ramp was VERY slippy. I hope it will go well. It is only 3 shifts a week at present, with maybe more hours to follow, but I think this is only on a temp basis anyway to cater for the Xmas rush.
I am not there to make contacts, just to earn a pitance while I finish my ATPLs.....of which I will mention as little as possible...thanks for the heads up on that one. I will try however to make it worthwhile and to learn as much as possible...can't do ant harm.
Older Wiser, this is a handling agent which caters for I think 20 odd airlines, and they do have a high staff turnover.

Anyhow, I will do the best I can, and if it works out I will stay and work as much and for as long as possible during the remainder of my flying training.

Thank you very much for your input, I REALLY appreciate it.:ok:

[j_davey]

hi there powdermonkey,

i am currently working for the aforementioned SHP as a dispatcher. As was said before, dublin airport IS a dodgy kip and can be dangerous at the best of times, i would`nt recommend working here with a hangover either!

let me know how you get on!

JD.

[powdermonkey]

Hi J_Davey

Too broke to afford a hangover these days!! All my spare dosh goes into AVGAS..
Hope to get to meet you out there, maybe you can give me a few tips! Think training starts early Decembre....I'm still looking foward to it..I think...is it really that dodgy out in EIDW?
I don't want to study turbines from the inside or have my head removed by a prop! You are all beginning to scare me now..?:uhoh:

[Ballymoss]

Sorry for my tongue in cheek response, I'm just a cynical old B:mad: . Seriously, reading the thread you've had some good replies..........Good luck to you! (You'll not be needing my advice)

Rgds
The Moss:ok:

[powdermonkey]

Ballymoss

No worries there mate, nothing wrong with your reply.
Yep, I did get good advice and many thanks to all who took the trouble....best go out and buy myself an artic fleece or two, was at EIDW as pax today and it was b***y freezing!!!:ugh: