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waav8r
15th Nov 2005, 08:35
SEATTLE, Nov. 14, 2005 -- The Boeing Company [NYSE: BA] today officially launched the new Boeing 747-8 program, which includes the 747-8 Intercontinental passenger airplane and the 747-8 Freighter airplane.

Cargolux, based in Luxembourg, has ordered 10 747-8 Freighters and will take delivery of the first 747-8F in third-quarter 2009. It also holds purchase rights for 10 additional airplanes. Cargolux currently operates an all-Boeing fleet of 13 747-400 freighters.

Nippon Cargo Airlines, based in Japan, has ordered eight 747-8 Freighters and will receive its first airplane in fourth-quarter 2009. The airline also acquired options for six additional airplanes. Nippon Cargo currently operates 13 747 freighters and has six more 747-400Fs on order.

Firm orders from the two launch customers are valued at approximately $5 billion at list prices.

"We are thrilled to have Cargolux and Nippon Cargo choose the new 747-8 and become the launch customers for this next generation of the proud and valuable 747 airplane family," said Alan Mulally, president and chief executive officer, Boeing Commercial Airplanes. "The 747-8 will use the technologies of the 787 Dreamliner to significantly increase the passenger and freighter capabilities of the 747 and offer greater fuel efficiency, improved operating economics, and be more friendly to the environment with reduced noise and emissions."

Both versions of the new 747 will feature GE's 787-technology GEnx engines, meet Stage 4 and QC2 noise requirements, have reduced emissions, offer lower trip costs and have an upgraded flight deck and an improved wing.

"The 747-8 Freighter will be very important in allowing Nippon Cargo to take advantage of the high expected cargo market growth in Asia," said Takuro Uchiyama, president and CEO, Nippon Cargo Airlines. "In addition, the 747-8 Freighter will be the world's most efficient cargo airplane, which is a key attribute with today's high cost of fuel."

Ulrich Ogiermann, president and CEO, Cargolux Airlines, said, "The Boeing 747-400 Freighter has been a cornerstone of our success, and I have high expectations that the 747-8 Freighter will build on that success and expand our capabilities worldwide. The increased payload capacity and much improved efficiency will allow us to continue our expansion and maximize our profitability. Equally important to us and the communities where we operate is the new standard the 747-8 Freighter will set in noise reduction."

The 747-8 Intercontinental passenger airplane will be stretched 3.6 m (11.7 ft) compared to the 747-400 to accommodate 34 additional seats in a typical three-class configuration. The only jetliner in the 400- to 500-seat category, it will have a range of 14,815 km (8,000 nmi) and will feature the new Boeing Signature Interior.

The Intercontinental will be quieter, produce fewer emissions, and achieve better fuel economy than any competing jetliner. It will offer 21 percent more lower-hold revenue cargo volume than the 747-400 and cost about 8 percent less per seat mile to operate. Compared to the A380, it will offer 22 percent lower trip costs.

The 747-8 Freighter will be 5.6 m (18.3 ft) longer than the 747-400 freighter. With a total payload capacity of 140 metric tonnes (154 tons), including tare weight, the 747-8F provides 16 percent more cargo revenue volume than the -400. The additional 117m³ (4,124 ft³) from the longer fuselage offers space for four additional main-deck pallets, two additional lower-hold pallets and two additional lower-hold containers. Cargo can be loaded and unloaded on the 747-8F using both the nose and side doors for maximum speed and efficiency.

Compared to the A380, the 747-8F will offer 20 percent lower trip costs. In addition, the 747-8F will maintain the operational flexibility of today's 747 freighters, with good profit potential at less-than-full loads.

The 747-8 Freighter complements the existing 747-400 freighter family, which is the air-cargo industry's standard. Both models accommodate 3.1-meter (10-foot) high pallets, providing operators with maximum flexibility.

The 747-8 also fits easily in today's aviation infrastructure, flying into more than 210 airports worldwide without additional, expensive infrastructure changes required.

The 747 freighter family currently constitutes more than half of the world's total freighter capacity. Boeing freighters of all models comprise more than 90 percent of the total worldwide freighter lift.

Boeing forecasts the need for about 900 airplanes -- passengers and freighters -- in the 400-plus-seat segment over the next 20 years. Boeing also forecasts that large widebody freighters (65 metric tons and above in capacity) will comprise 34 percent of the freighter market by 2024.

Torquelink
15th Nov 2005, 09:57
Thoughts on first passenger model orders - CX, SQ even BA or VS?

:hmm:

ORAC
15th Nov 2005, 10:59
Interesting. When Airbus started proposing the A380 Boeing said the 747 replacement market wouldn´t be more than 400 aircraft. Suddenly it´s up to 900+.....

Colonel Klink
15th Nov 2005, 11:30
The 747 is the only Boeing model that has never been stretched, until now. The A380 is too expensive for many airlines, and at the moment limited to only a few airports that can accept it. I am not putting down the A380, which may turn out to be an excellent machine in time, but it hasn't had an order in quite a while. So, Boeing have already 34 orders and no doubt many potential buyers queuing up; good luck to them I say.

Groundloop
15th Nov 2005, 12:03
Actually 18 orders, plus 16 options.

Flight Safety
15th Nov 2005, 14:34
It's about time they announced it. :O

I wonder how significant the modifications will be from the base 744 (besides the obvious stretch)? I also wonder how much better the economics will be compared to the base 744?

The press pictures do show an interesting looking wing, without the winglets.

the_hawk
15th Nov 2005, 14:49
from http://edition.cnn.com/2005/BUSINESS/11/15/boeing.jumbo.reut/index.html

Boeing said the 747-8 would cost 20 percent less to operate per flight than the Airbus A380.

Do 5 flights and your costs are nil ;)

Pin Head
15th Nov 2005, 14:52
What about the 787 as well. Busy times at Boeing I guess!

Big Tudor
15th Nov 2005, 15:12
Didn't Boeing pour scorn over the A380 saying that the future was in smaller long range aircraft? So the justification for this behemoth is....

Andy_S
15th Nov 2005, 15:29
And didn't Airbus claim that the future was in large scale hub to hub rather than thinner point to point operations? So the justification for the A350 is.......

Few Cloudy
15th Nov 2005, 15:52
Well, they stretched the upper deck - but I guess that was a while ago!

kooyheier
15th Nov 2005, 16:10
Justification for the A350 is for the aircraft to be a more efficient version of the A330....

mmeteesside
15th Nov 2005, 16:24
Justification for A350?

Point - Hub - A350
Hub - Hub - A380
Hub - Point - A350

:)

mmeteesside

Grunf
15th Nov 2005, 16:29
I guess good justification for both Boeing and Airbus is that they have to match the other one.

So there was no way for Boeing to let the A380 go through alone withthe same holding for A350.

They are all good a/cs just a question of marketing and salesmanship will get the better of them.

Good for contractors / jobshoppers of all kinds:D

Max Angle
15th Nov 2005, 16:48
Stretched by 3.6m and 34 more seats, wow, really cutting edge stuff.

akerosid
15th Nov 2005, 18:09
747-300 = 743, 747-400 = 744. So, new nickname for the new Jumbo:

Budgie? :D

It did surprise me that the capacity expansion was so small, but already, BA seems to have warmed to the new 747, saying there were many unanswered questions about the 380.

As for other carriers: JAL, Cathay, ANZ (which has said it would order it if it were launched), CAL, SAA ?

Wonder if any M/E carriers would be interested? Saudia, perhaps, or one of the newer carriers, like QR/EY/EK?

Flight Safety
15th Nov 2005, 18:16
If some airline requested a passenger 748 with a stretch of 5.6m instead of 3.6m (thus adding a few more seats), and the freighter is certified to that length anyway, would Boeing turn them down?

PODKNOCKER
15th Nov 2005, 20:07
AND 21% more cargo volume...bags always limited cargo...
AND 8% less per seat mile...
AND 22% lower trip costs than the A380...
AND 8000 nm range...
AND B787/777 technology...

74 HEAVEN

Flight Safety
15th Nov 2005, 20:53
There's an interesting article in the Seattle Times about the new plane, and potential customers.

Seattle Times article (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/businesstechnology/2002624320_747advanced15.html)

OhForSure
16th Nov 2005, 07:43
Sometimes evolution is better than revolution. There is a LONG list of airlines that will need 747/744 replacements before long and with 777/787 technology onboard, it should prove popular. It's not as if airlines can fly 744s forever and A380s have proven too big a risk for many. It will sell in my very humble opinion.

Skipness One Echo
16th Nov 2005, 12:16
IS the GE engine the exclusive engine or do PW and RR get a shot at offering a powerplant? never understood why the 777-300ER HAD to have the GE superfan rather than offer the others as well.
You KNOW that BA want it. You just know. Even though they operate 3*744 from Hong Kong over London within two hours each morning etc etc etc

Oh well! :D

20driver
16th Nov 2005, 13:31
Sounds like a good move. Freight traffic is growing at a steady clip and this is expected to continue. Boeing sold 26 747_400F last year alone so the -8 is likely to continue with this momentum.
From what I understand the 747 is better suited to freight as opposed to packages than the A380 so Boeing will likely have this market for a while.
On the passenger side it will be very interesting. I suspect the airline to watch will be SQ.
The pendulum swings back and forth and Boeing is looking very good for the moment.
Does anyone know if the 747_8 will share a type rating with the earlier variants?
20driver

Grunf
16th Nov 2005, 14:53
Don't forget the BCF (formerly known as SF - converted -400s)...sold more then 15 and it keeps going on...

For the type cert it is quite...I guess you're flying so you have to wait a little bit for that answer...as for the FAA cert side that one is much clearer since it is a derivative...

What I mean is that too many systems will see an upgrade so to it might go both ways in terms of a type rate...

MarkD
16th Nov 2005, 16:41
Airbus will probably rue the lack of a nose door in the 380F methinks...

pleiades
16th Nov 2005, 21:48
now I have always thought the queen 'o the skies was a hot piece of kit but look at the new wings and engines!!!!

http://747.newairplane.com/

I'm getting all hot and bothered!:}

Swedish Steve
16th Nov 2005, 22:14
Does anyone know how much 777/787 technology there is? I can see some 777 screens and pointing devices in the cockpit but won't it still have steel cables under the floor, and bungees and bus drums and all the other mechanical bits? Or will it have 777 technology with fly by wire and back powered control columns?

Also it says small changes to the wings, with new wingtips, but the wings in Boeings ads sweep up like a 787!

MarkD
17th Nov 2005, 14:41
How much change can Boeing make before it requires "from scratch" certification as opposed to a "variant" one? (Evac tests, etc.)

747FOCAL
17th Nov 2005, 15:26
As long as they don't change the door layout or extend the upper deck anymore Boeing will never have to recert PAX EVAC and the like. They already proved over 550 PAX EVAC for the Japanese. :)

Grunf
18th Nov 2005, 22:06
SwedishSteve:

A lot of 777/787, that is the whole idea...structure wise and system wise as well...wing is new, not only on the pic...


Let's wait for the PDR to see where is this heading for...and how fast...

JamesT73J
19th Nov 2005, 14:18
The serrated engine casing is interesting, as is the 'organic' looking wing.

But I wonder how much of that will make it to the actual design? The 787 was similarly illustrated a while back, whereas the actual design is alot more conventional looking. It smells a bit of concept.

"Guys, it's a longer 747. How do we make it look cool and new?"

"Widdly bits on the engines and a nice floaty wing?"

"Make it so"

unmanned transport
21st Nov 2005, 07:07
The freighter will not be a SUD (Stretched Upper Deck)
as depicted in the Seattle Times pic. Only the pax version will have a plugged SUD.

Flight Safety
21st Nov 2005, 15:00
UT, it would make no sense to add the SUD to the freighter, it would add about 30k lbs. to the OEW.

zkpilot
27th Nov 2005, 09:59
Air NZ has 4x leased 744 and 4x owned 744... me thinks that ANZ would wait approx 7 years (to get use out of all the new refitting) then return the 4x leased jets and order 4x 748.. the owned 744s are getting on a bit now... the oldest ANZ has being about 15 years old so by then they should be ready to be retired 1 per year perhaps, while 773ER replace them. The 748s being used for the AKL-LAX-LHR routes (which ANZ will be doubling to twice daily to UK shortly). so 4x 748, 8x 772ER, 4x788, with options for another 36 mix of 772 ER/LR, 773ER and 788s. nice :D

Personally I think Boeing has done the smart thing.... not much to develop, similar levels of cost benefits fuelwise, common type and able to fit perfectly into just about every Intl airport...

Packsonflight
28th Nov 2005, 11:45
Does anybody know if this ship is stage 4 noise?and furthermore has MR Boeing relased any numbers on how much this program is going to cost? (design and certification)