Virgin Decompression.

[Hippolite]

Virgin Blue Boeing 737 Rapid Decompression

On November 9, 2005, at 0835 local Australia time, a Boeing 737-7Q8,
registered in Australia to Virgin Blue Airlines Pty Ltd as VH-VBI (serial
number 30644), experienced a rapid decompression at flight level 400. The
aircraft was enroute from Sydney, New South Wales, Australia, to Melbourne,
Victoria, Australia at the time of the decompression. The flightcrew donned
oxygen masks and conducted a rapid descent to 10,000 feet. No Injuries
occurred. The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is considering this a
serious incident and will perform an investigation. The Boeing Company has
been notified. Questions about this investigation should be directed to the
ATSB at phone 61 2 6230 4408 or email www.atsb.gov.au.
(airdisaster.com)

[DirectAnywhere]

Gee, they did well to keep that out of the media.

Ooopss...did I speak too soon?!? Anyone like to bet on the headline?? Death plunge, thought I was going to die, everyone screamed, people were praying, 500,000 feet in ten secs etc.

[SM4 Pirate]

Did it happen? I was working then on those sectors and nobody told me; which would be highly unusual; we like to discuss such events.

[Keg]

DJ is in the wars a bit at the moment and can't take a trick! Wasn't there a pretty serious 'incident' at the DJ terminal iyesterday with a specific 'threat' against an aircraft?

Heard it second hand off someone who was listening to a scanner at the time!

[blueloo]

Speaking of specific threats, why was sydney airport closed the other day, at around 5pm, with only 2 minutes notice, and no explaination.

Is there something suss about this? I cant find anything on ATSB. Also the link to the ATSB provided is a dud. And the source is airdisaster.com which is a website made up of dodgy \"facts\" at the best of time.

[OpsNormal]

Keg, you may find that AD has been pranked so to speak. ;)

[twenty eight]

If it happened it would have been only a few minuets after the smelly takeoff talked about here (http://pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=197613). Maybe some has mixed up facts about what happened in that "incident".

[RamAirInlet]

Hi all!

I've finally decided to become a registered member, so that I can actually reply to a few things around here.

Regarding the VB incident, the first I heard of it was on November 9 from someone who works for the ATSB. He said that the aircraft was at FL400, but didn't say how rapid the decompression was. I am pretty certain that it has nothing to do with the 'smelly takeoff'.

There has been no press release issued by the ATSB on the incident as far as I know.

[Buster Hyman]

...I better not post anything here!http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/spezial/Fool/aaa.gif

[Capn Bloggs]

That'll teach them for flying in the stratosphere...

[UnderneathTheRadar]

I thought it happens thousands of times daily?

Pick up bottle...............
twist lid.............
VB decompression!







(sorry)

UTR.

[cficare]

NTSB Identification: DCA06WA003
Scheduled 14 CFR Non-U.S., Commercial operation of Virgin Blue Pty Ltd
Incident occurred Wednesday, November 09, 2005 in Melbourne, Australia
Aircraft: Boeing 737-7Q8, registration: VH-VBI
Injuries: Unavailable
On November 9, 2005, at 0835 local Australia time, a Boeing 737-7Q8, registered in Australia to Virgin Blue Airlines Pty Ltd as VH-VBI (serial number 30644), experienced a rapid decompression at flight level 400. The aircraft was enroute from Sydney, New South Wales, Australia, to Melbourne, Victoria, Australia at the time of the decompression. The flightcrew donned oxygen masks and conducted a rapid descent to 10,000 feet. No Injuries occurred. The Australian Transport Safety Bureau is considering this a serious incident and will perform an investigation. The Boeing Company has been notified.

[Capt Basil Brush]

I heard the cabin alt barely got above 14000', and was not a rapid depress.

I dont think it even made the press.

[Woomera]

I have already moved one of these threads to the Toolshed pending a verification of what appeared to be a dodgy ATSB account.

I have not been able to find any such reference on the NTSB site.

Until someone sends us verifiable information, this thread will remain closed.

Woomera

[glastar]

Wommera,

My son was the Captain in this incident. He called me straight after the Virgin initial enquiry. I had experienced a similar incident whith a broken aircon duct in a B767 at Alice Springs many years ago and was pleased to hear he handled it as I would have.
The only detail I have is that he rolled it into the descent manually and then reinstalled the a/p with the alt set at10000'.

[Calligula]

One hopes that if your 'son' was indeed the 'Captain' on this service he can teach you how to spell 'Virgin' correctly.

[Adamastor]

Never mind the spelling lesson from a person who spells 'Caligula' with a double 'l', glastar. If this rumour is indeed true, I'd like to hear more.

[Capt Claret]

Um, Mr Calligula, sir, um, how is Virgin mis spelt?

No if it were "Wommera" you were upset with, I could understand. :E

[Woomera]

glastar

Professionally executed indeed.

It was not my intention to protect VB by locking the thread, but to prevent any mischief as it was not possible to verify the incident from the information given, nor was I suggesting the original posters were stirring.

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.,

Maybe we are getting a bit paranoid with the usual bear baiting that seems to be a National sport.

We were totally amazed it didn't get any "death plunge" press or national TV, maybe it was so neatly done, that the pax just thought it was a normal descent. ;)

There are lessons to be learnt here.:ok:

Wommera.:\

[Woomera]

Thread unlocked, back to the top.

Now to merge all three threads .............:sad:

Woomera


OK. :ok: I merged all three threads - sorry if it appears a bit disjointed.

[Hippolite]

Woomera

Thanks for re instating the thread. FYI, I got the original notifcation by e-mail from a well known Flight Safety service. I was a bit worried at first thinking I had committed a terrible sin by posting it.

Anyway, it was kept out of the press, the pilot didn't have to turn away from the schoolyard at the last moment and nobody's hurt.

Good result all round then.

[Flight Detent]

As was mentioned earlier, "the cabin hardly got above 14,000 ft", and "rolled ir into a descent and set the a/p at 10,000 ft"

If the pax hardly noticed the "event", presumably because the "rapid" decompression wasn't so rapid, then what were the pilots doing between 10,000 and 14,000 feet cabin alt?

I know, it's that pesky "takeoff warning horn" again!

Just wondering!

Cheers, FD :confused:

[cficare]

Just had a look at the ATSB site (last updated 14/11/05) and no mention of this event!

[Capt Basil Brush]

Flight Detent,

Between 10,000' and 14,000' cab alt, the pilots would have donned their oxy masks, and descended to 10,000'. Or did I mis-read your question?

BB

[Capn Bloggs]

that the pax just thought it was a normal descent
It does help when you don't scream out over the PA: "EMERGENCY DESCENT!!".

[coitus interuptus]

The engineers today told a few of us that the negative pressure relief valve caused the problem. It was a gradual pressure loss, not rapid. The a/c is still in the hangar being attended to.

Sorry to upset those looking at stirring up trouble, but you are wasting your time. The pax had nothing but praise for the crew from start to finish. EVERYTHING from a pax perspective was pretty much spot on. The re-assuring PA from the CAPT after they settled at 10,000' did much to allay any concerns.

A good effort all round I suggest.

[En-Rooter]

This event happened on the day of the 'terrorrist arrests' probably why it was not splashed through the media.

:ok:

[glastar]

Thanks for your comment coitus Interuptus.

Thats my boy.javascript:smilie(':D')
big grin

[Woomera]

glastar. I'm with you!!! My son recently trashed an aeroplane following an undercarriage failure. His passengers could not have spoken more highly of his professional action. The only things that upset him - he stopped a meter off the center line and the firies sprayed his headset with foam!!! :}

Makes ya feel real good when your protege prove there are still very competent and professional airmen in the industry!!! :ok:

You should be justly proud of your son's actions - would love to know how he kept it out of the media!!! :}

To all those who sent us a PM - please stop!!!! The inbox is full. Think I've merged all the threads but if I missed something, PM me or email [email protected]

Woomera

[amos2]

So, let me get this this straight...

a Virgin 737 does a rapid descent from 40 grand at a body angle of -10 to -15 degrees, at a speed of MMO/VMO with the IVSI pegged on the stops at 6000fpm, the boards are up and the masks are, or should be, out and...

the SLF are unconcerned 'cause they think this is "ops normal".

Who's kidding who here?

[The_Cutest_of_Borg]

the SLF are unconcerned 'cause they think this is "ops normal".

Well they were Virgin customers......

OH COME ON!!!:E

Someone had to say it!!!! ;) ;)

[HI'er]

It might possibly have been an emergency descent vs a rapid descent, amos.
And unless the cabin altitude reached 14,000', then the rubber jungle shouldn't have deployed, unless manually activated.

If it was a slow depressurisation that never developed into a rapid increase in cabin alt, then chances are pax would NOT notice anything.
Remember, we're talking about a climbing cabin, which is not the unpleasant experience on the sinuses a descending cabin can be.

Charlie Farley or the Model Aeroplane builder?
I reckon I've got it down to one of you two!

[amos2]

So, let me get this straight...

a Virgin 737 does an emergency descent from 40 grand at a body angle of -10 to -15 degrees at a speed of MMO/VMO with the IVSI pegged on the stops at 6000fpm the boards are up and the masks are, or should be, out and...

the SLF are unconcerned 'cause they think this is "ops normal".

Who's kidding who here?

You happy now Hi'er, or do you have a rapid/emergency descent procedure that differs from that, that none of us, including Boeing or Airbus, have ever heard of? :ok:

[HI'er]

Declaring an "emergency", and descending, is not the same as a "rapid descent".

You, Airbus, and Boeing, are not all, one, and the same! :p :ok: (In spite of what YOU might believe).

You might try a little more understanding, because of your superior experience, Amos.
These young punks are growing up in a far more cut throat environment than you and I.

Do you really believe that the majority of slf know the difference between 3 degrees a.n.d., and 10?

[wirgin blew]

This event happened on the day of the 'terrorrist arrests' probably why it was not splashed through the media.

Spot on my friend. I am also led to believe that the only media flying that day was on the other aircraft that had the "smoke incident". Therefore my thoughts are that the media assumed that they were one in the same and as the majority of the media were chasing terrorists, aviation could have a rest from the news for a change.

Perhaps we only rate a mention on a slow news day???

[sweetpollypurebred]

Are you blokes on drugs????????????????:zzz:

[amos2]

So, let me get this straight...

there was NO emergency descent from 40 grand with the boards up etc,etc...

no Pan or Mayday call, no sqawking 7700, no problem controlling the cabin pressure or altitude, no turn off track, no belt/smoking signs or ignition being switched on, no turn back to parallel track after 5nm divergence ( saves getting lost ) no PA to the Pax during the high dive, no request for area QNH, no masks deployed etc, etc ( I'm going by memory here ! )

So, what are we discussing ? And why is the term emergency descent being used ??

:confused: :confused:

and Hi'er...how long since you've done a high dive in the sim mate?

the crew are usually sh*tting themselves let alone the punters!

[Woomera]

Catching up with the PMs.

Thank you to all those who responded to the request for verification.:ok:

cficare my apologies if there was an inference that you were up to mischief, it was not intended to be so.

In future and this was an unusual "stealth" subject in that it hadn't appeared in any "death plunge" journalism, would posters please include URLs to the Government or Regulatory sites containing the info.

I know the references were quoted but they appeared to be several levels down and I did not have the time to go chasing them beyond a quick look at the AT and NTSB.

There was no and never is any conspiracy in our moderation.:D

[The Bullwinkle]

the crew are usually sh*tting themselves let alone the punters!
In actual fact, an emergency descent is exactly the same as a high speed descent with the speedbrakes out. This is often used when, for example, inbound to Syd from Bris, ATC changes runway from 34 to 16. Max speed, speedbrakes out, and not once have I heard screams coming from the cabin.

[gaunty]

amos2

I too am similarly perplexed.

A decompression, or threat of, especially at FL 400 is not exactly "routine".

No panic is good, :ok: and glastar was, deservedly, happy with his sons execution of it, is there something missing here.

OR as coitus suggests, the crew handled the whole situation perfectly, beat the ruuber jungle baro to FL140, kept the pax informed and calm and the "press" were somehow put back to sleep.

But in any gathering of more than one person :p there is always going to be someone who can't help himself to be the first with the worst.:sad: Oh moi gawd!! But not a peep was heard.

No biggie, sh!t happens, guess we'll have to see what the ATSB turn up. :confused:

[amos2]

(Yawn!!!)...so, if it's a high speed descent that occured Bull, why are we talking about emergency descents?

:confused: :confused:

[HI'er]

Gawd, you're either bored "(Yawn!!!)...", or you're like a cat with a mouse, amos.

A possible scenario:-
Crew at FL400 notice the cabin alt continuing to climb at (say) 500 fpm, after it should have stopped at around 8,000'.
A quick run through the checklist indicates that they cannot stop the roc of the cabin.
They therefore decide that an immediate descent is required to prevent the O2 masks in the cabin from deploying, and thus necessitating an EMERGENCY descent.
They advise ATC that they REQUIRE immediate descent to 10,000'.
ATC advise them (i) there's no (known) traffic between them and 10,000'; or, instruct them to turn x degrees off present heading and descend.

The crew figure that a descent from FL400 to 10,000' will take about 5 minutes with the boards out, by which time the cabin will probably be close to 10,500' so a level off back to 1,000 fpm at 11,000' (as per the sim) will work out nicely.
Not being an explosive decompression, the pax (and crew) don't notice anything too untoward, and Glastar's son manages a nice soothing, "This is your Captain speaking, we are descending to a lower level for your comfort.....".

Probably not an emergency at the initial stages, and so perhaps a "Pan" was the highest level it got to.

and Hi'er...how long since you've done a high dive in the sim mate?About every 12 - 18 months. To tell you the truth, they're a waste of time in the sim after the initial flurry....sitting there for an eternity to get down to 10,000' or MEA.
It's a shame they can't introduce more of the physiological stuff associated with a rapid decomp - the exhalation of body gasses, the immediate, rapid increase in altitude, and the sudden temperature drop causing the cockpit and cabin to fog.

Anyway, well done to Son of Glastar.
"Having never done anything truly outstanding in his aviation career, Old Glastar became known throughout the aviation community because of his son's exceptional abilities..."

[coaldemon]

I believe there was an airline using a smoke machine for added effect for many years until it was discovered by the OH&S that the smoke was carcinogenic ( quite severely apparently). Legal department shut down the smoke machine real quick. Of course being on Oxy in the sim means the O2 is just straight air from the sim of course so the smoke was coming straight through into the masks....Oh Malboro man where are you now.........

[amos2]

So, this abnormal we're now talking about H...

would that be a pack/bleed trip off, duct o/heat or what? ( going by memory here again, don't have a manual in front of me! )

And if we're just talking about a mundane abnormal why are we wasting our time with dime a dozen stuff, why did it even rate a mention here?

:confused: :confused:

[HI'er]

You're probably right, Amos - although probably not quite an emergency, it might have passed as a non-normal, perhaps classified as "Unscheduled pressurisation change" (...cabin altitude is not under control).
This checklist assumes that cabin pressure will be controllable in MAN mode (you remember the mouse's tit?), and as such no descent, of any sort, is included in the checklist.
However, as there was an apparent failure of the negative pressure relief valve, it appears that Son of Glastar made a command decision for which he - and his support pilot - need to be fully commended.
He chose the SAFEST course of action for ALL concerned. :ok:

why are we wasting our time with dime a dozen stuff, why did it even rate a mention here?'caus we're pilots, and we like to SHARE this sort of sh!t amongst ourselves, in case WE ever encounter a similar situation ourself!
It's always nice to have a copybook example :ok:

[amos2]

Well, this has been like pulling teeth, hasn't it?

And H knows more than he's letting on, for some reason!

So, puting this all together:

1. There was no explosive/rapid decompression.
2. there was no emergency descent.
3. There was a pressurisation abnormal.
4. Crew carried out the non normal c/list.
5. Crew descended, landed, wrote it in the book, went home, had a beer and watched Australian Idol.

QED!!

Now, if that had been an Airbus the book actually tells you to meander down to ten grand! :ok: