QF 777 Syd - Lon direct

[The PM]

Just saw on the channel 10 late news flagged as "breaking news". Apparantly QF have announced the intention to operate 777LRs on the Sydney to London route direct in an all business class configuration.Anyone got anymore details?

[Keg]

This from news.com.au John.

QANTAS is reportedly holding negotiations to launch non-stop business-class flights between London and Sydney.

Boeing's 777-200 LR Worldliner aircraft last week broke the record for the longest flight by a commercial airliner, and has the capacity to link any two cities in the world.
However a non-stop flight from London to Sydney would be impossible with the full complement of 300 passengers as it would use up almost all its fuel, not having enough of a safety buffer required in case of diversion.

However the removal of 100 seats and the addition of three more fuel tanks would make the direct flight possible, hence the pitch at the business-class market.

A Qantas jumbo flew direct from Sydney to London in 1989, but there were no passengers.

Britain's Daily Telegraph newspaper reported that Qantas was in talks with Boeing about the possibility of a non-stop flight.


Advertisement:
Competition on the London-Sydney route is intense, meaning any airline that could offer quicker non-stop flights would get a big jump on rivals in the premium fare market.
It would also save Qantas money on landing fees en-route to Europe.

Boeing's rival Airbus has offered Qantas a long-range version of its A340-500 but that could carry only 120 passengers.



Looking at it stiill. I reckon it's a goer. One of my colleagues the other day reckoned it'd be about three years before we saw the first A380 in all economy. He may have over estimated the time frame if this gets up.

Final decision on aircraft type still not due until after board meeting on 7 Dec. Anyone want to lay odds AGAINST 777? :E

[The PM]

How long till you have your bid on a seat in Keg ?? :ok:

[OZcabincrew]

and i wonder, if the order does come through for the 777, like the Airbus currently operated by Qantas, will this be a shared aircraft between long haul and short haul crew? (although i don't see short haul crew being willing to operate to London) will be interesting.

Oz

Oz

[newsensation]

Qantas Mainline 777 Business Class
Jetstar International A380 No Class

[Calligula]

The B777 or any new type will be introduced into service after the new IR laws take effect.

As such, it will be a 'green fields' operation and will not be crewed by QF mainline people (either SH or LH) although it will be a 'red tail' a/c.

The only way it will be 'a goer' is if the company can reduce crew costs to make up for the missing 110 seats. Even taking out landing fees, seat costs per mile will be too high - especially heading west.

No doubt they will be able to do this with some help from Australian pilots.

In other happy news, I see Borgetti is alrady talking about Jetstar operating the A380 (yesterdays SMH).

Just the thought of 500 boguns being flown to LHR by our JQ brothers warms the cockles of my heart.

[Buster Hyman]

A Qantas jumbo flew direct from Sydney to London in 1989
And here I was thinking it flew the other way!

Still, if they do it, I'd hate to be the one emptying the honey cart!!!:ugh: :yuk:

[akerosid]

I was just trying to work out the trip time between the two cities, using SIA's JFK-SIN/vv as a basis. Not completely accurate I know (the 777 is a little faster than the 345), but for want of something better ...

SIN-JFK/vv Average 18h25

Distance 9,524mi

SYD-LHR/vv

Distance 10,557mi

I'm guessing that's about 1h40-2h flying time, so let's say about 20-20h30?

Anyone have a better guess?

Anyway, if we assume 20h30 (average for both sectors), a rough schedule would look something like this, assuming 10h time diff:

Dep. SYD 20.00 Arr LHR 0630 +1

Dep. LHR 1200 Arr SYD 1845 +1

[enicalyth]

It would be nice to fly Great Circles but politics and geography may say otherwise. Lots of nice people have to say yes and to date the yesfulness has not being encouraging when it comes to making the sky free.

Will the B777 fly on route L888 or what? Let's say it does to the extent that the authorities permit YSSY DCT BIDRU DCT KCA DCT EGLL the route cannot be shorter than 9200nm.

Apart from the legal niceties, what quid pro quo would be expected by the likes of Indonesia, China and the CIS to permit this? And what sort of lobbying would go on behind the scenes by, ahem, companies that have vested interests in the non-success of the venture?

Suppose that on the grounds of driftdown for one thing the B777 (initially at least) is restricted to flying south of the Himalayas. The route on airways is 4122nm to overfly VTBD and 5628nm through Iran and Turkey. It would be a victory for the less than pro-US, pro-Boeing camp (if such a thing exists in this world of universal bonhomie and brotherly goodwill).

Somewhere in between then, 9450nm or 10880 statute miles? Coincidentally about the same distance as YSSY DCT RJAA DCT EGLL.

M0.83 against a 35kt HW all the way is 21hr 30mins. M0.84 against a 20kt HW all the way is 20hr 30mins. Knowing something of the winds I'd favour the upper figure of the two.

Head Winds never balance out Tail Winds. It's the first law of flying and despite the fact that farmers have produced a butter mountain and a wine lake it can only get worse. Some looney in the Common Market is handing out subsidies to start up wind farms!

[ftrplt]

dont you mean tailwinds never balance out headwinds?:O

[Going Boeing]

The Great Circle track between Sydney and London passes just to the west of Hong Kong which would indicate that for most of the year the B215 route through North-Western China would the the preferred route. :ok:

[TAC On]

To all you genii with the time to calculate.

Have you thought of the prospect of heading southeast picking up the jetstreams across to Sth America then swinging up through the Atlantic? 207 min ETOP's gives you a 1300ish NM ETOPS alternate radius. Considerably longer route but maybe the wind trade off is there.

Don't know, just asking.

[gaunty]

TAC On

Eeeerm I don't think they teach that anymore, :rolleyes: I think they used to call it wind pattern planning.

Although I believe our domestics use the techniques westbound.

[Captain Can't]

TAC ON
Have you thought of the prospect of heading southeast picking up the jetstreams across to Sth America then swinging up through the Atlantic? 207 min ETOP's gives you a 1300ish NM ETOPS alternate radius. Considerably longer route but maybe the wind trade off is there.

yes, this is/was being looked at... the east to west (shortest GC route) was debunked by dispatch (under the present situations), and the possibility of going the other way raised... :ok:

[TAC On]

Gaunty

It may not be taught anymore but is still alive and well.

Regularly fly the north pacific. Eastbound stay south around the mid lats and pick up the jets, westbound head up north and get away from the winds. Get above 70N. sometimes.

Works well.

[enicalyth]

I have a summary of a study based on 335000kg BRW 172000kg ZFW 40C+162Y for the 9574nm as follows

H202-R340-A461-A583-A461-G586-B330-B215-A368-G3-R11-G3-G350-UM864-UM611-UZ701-UY76 (Well Lambourne anyway).

If anyone is interested post or pm. As the aircraft is actually in service, provisional data has been superseded.

[Spotlight]

Aircrew rejoice!

Will there be a Ding a Ling a Ding bell for changes of the watch?

[enicalyth]

steady as she goes mr spock, i'll be in my cabin until eight bells.

[DeBurcs]

Just the thought of 500 boguns being flown to LHR by our JQ brothers warms the cockles of my heartYes but it's well-known that boguns never travel any further afield than Bali... :rolleyes:

[karrank]

Batsignal to Greg & Garth!

Crank up the OzOTS & have a bash at SYD-LON-SYD:8

[Ronnie Honker]

The only way it will be 'a goer' is if the company can reduce crew costs to make up for the missing 110 seats.In case you hadn't noticed Caligula, it's an ALL Business Class flight, which means the revenue will be in far in excess of an aircraft operated in a mixed configuration of Club and EY.
That pulls the rug out from your little theory on that one.
I'm occasionally somewhat of a bullsh!tter at times, but it's nice to hear it from a true exponent!