Jade Cargo

[fullforward]

Some insight on this new german-chinese outfit?

[fimbles]

Anyone.........

[BlueEagle]

Have you tried this? (http://www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=jade+cargo+airline&btnG=Google+Search&meta=)

[fullforward]

Thank you, but this was the very first source...
A further deep insight would be very welcome...

Rgds

[Van Pelt338]

[email protected]

Also this head hunter has advertised hiring for Jade

http://%20www.vega-aviation.com/

[bolzi]

Hi Folks

I`ve done the whole selection, the sreeening process in FRA with Experts from DLR. I`ve taken the english test and I went in the simulator.
So good so far...
But then they asked me to go to Shenzhen China, to complete the selection by taking the last step and do the medical.
If any of you thought that the medical that applies towards your ATPL license is enough....is simply death wrong.
First of all: they won`t pay for the trip.....unless one day you will get hired!
Secondly the failure rate of this chinese medical is rediciulous.
We were like 12 People, all well experienced Pilots with thounsands of hours, mostly PiC`s and guess what.
80% failed the medical!!!
Even the Post Holder Flight Ops. at Jade Cargo dind`t make it!!!
It seems that if one applies for an initial ATPL in China you will get measured with any 20 Year old applicant for the Chinese Air Force.
But thats not all. There is a system behind this. The Chinese are just trying to protect their own Pilots. The bad thing about tis - they don`t speak english...
Jade Cargo is only going to hire Pilots with experience and a proper education including english...
Another thing noone ever talks about. If you were hired as Copilot
ät Jade Cargo, to get Upgaraded you will again have to pass the chinese ATPL and get this : IN CHINESE !!! ( written and oral!)
So you see there are may different patrameters they still need to sort out.
Until then, most former applicants are gone elswhere.

cheers bolzi

[Wizofoz]

bolzi,

Just out of interest, what pay and conditions were they offering if you got through?

[cruise330]

@bolzi, could you tell us something about the DLR interview, oral, paper pencil, multiple choice,details etc., what did you have to do during the sim-check? english test?
thanks

[bolzi]

hi Folks

about the Pay...once you get hired
PiC 9500$ plus allowens plus 65$up to 100$ per diem
Copi 6500$ plus the rest.
Teh alllowens is ot yet defined. It will very much depend on the situation and wheter they are building their own accomodation.

DLR is no swet if you do speak a proper English...!!
Starts with english test. 90 Questions around an hour..
Psychology test thereafter. the MMPI type with around 235 Questions...be careful b/c you will only get a few seconds to answer each Question.
Tehn they will ask you to participate in a CRM Test. might be tricky if you are to safety minded. What they want is to see that you keep up a regular communication with all type of peope.
Be automatism minded..e.g. Airbus...
The inteniew afterwards depends on your previous test only.
As for ther SIM
you willl find yourself in a B737/300 most probably
usually FRA with a F/D A/T LNAV departure...
once aloft he will aske you if yxou are ready...
turn offall automatics. Handflown airwork. turns with climb and descent.
Accellerations to a certain speed. slow down to flap 15 speed almost to stallspeed.
Then theyask you with radar Vectors for an ILS Raw data.
At the minimum you will find the Rwy blocked...! G/A
Engine failure with a non standard G/A padern.
Back for another Appr. this time ( PIiC only ) a single Engine NDB DME. ( minimum weater )
landing to a full stop.

Thats all for now folks

cheers bolzi

[ltjng]

For your info......the CAAC ATPL exam can be done in Chinese or English.......they have both language version.

[LindbergB767]

Hi guys I am invited for this interview next week in China as well as about 30 others guys

I have only few questions?

Is it a commuting job??
How many days of holliday per year?

They wrote me that the Sim will be on B777
Thank s

[Wong Swee Fong]

Me also...still waiting for interview date. Money good. Shezhen also nice place.

[an3_bolt]

Just a couple of questions if I may and would be grateful if someone has the knowledge to pass it on:
Where is the position based?
Is reloctaion costs paid or assisted?
What about family education allowance?
Medical and dental cover?
Loss of licence program?
Provident or retirement plan?
Where is the pay deposited (which country) and in what currency?
What is the rostering system - ie seniority or assigned?
Annual leave provisions per year?
Any staff travel available and if so is it simply interline or other arrangements apply?
Are you paid properly during training?
In any case, wishing you all safe flying and very best of luck.
Shei-shen (my spelling is not very good)

[typhoonpilot]

DLR is no swet if you do speak a proper English...!!
:hmm:

Ahh, the irony. :)

TP

[LindbergB767]

To AN3 Bolt and all the others interested to join Jade

I was there about 5 days ago and I asked all those questions and I did not get any answer .So they told me I did not have enough motivation and I told them it was true because what is the point to leave my job if they can not tell me if we can get a 10 days Off in row, if they have a medical and dental plan, loss of license, life insurance and annual leave
I met a guy there which is working for Shenzhen Airlines and he told me he d ont have any travelling agreement
No one speak english in town even in the 5 star hotel of Shenzhen Airlines Hotel. It is their Hotel and they did not provide free breakfast.
The test are quite easy. one english test of 188 questions (30 minutes max) Then one CRM test of 90 questions and one Personnality test of 234 questions. All those test are multiple choice. It takes about 1 hour an 30 minutes. Then you have the Personnality interview which is about 40 minutes
I got the feeling that it will be a LOW Cost Cargo Cie.

[Wizofoz]

Quite amazing-

They mounted full page adds in Flight two weeks in a row, but hadn't worked out what they were going to pay or where their prospective pilots were going to live!!

If I were involved in the German connection to these these clowns, I'd be VERY wary of my investment!!

[cruise330]

any news or interview dates? they told me there will be one in the begining of march...?:confused:

[MaxThrust]

Hi chaps have read your thread with interest.

I am 747-400 rated with 5000 hours on type and have not heard a word from this mob. I wonder if they are looking for people who will do anything to get on the jumbo. Most likely you will not have any flight time limitations and if you complain about anything, (once your are employed) you will probably find yourself unemployed very quickly.

Shenzen is a dump like most of southern china so if you go there expect very poluted air and most people will not speak english.

Max

:uhoh:

[Deske1]

No wonder there is not even a reply.

You know the golden rule,buddies first from Air Berlin etc. :\

specially if Jade gets some free type-ratings with the new birds.

[AAIGUY]

Emailed me today for an interiew. 6000hrs tt, 1500 on the B747.
Interview slated for early March

[kotakota]

Come on guys , use the proverbial bargepole..........don't touch it.
Sounds very dodgy indeed.Being set up by people who loathe aircrew ?

[IBTheseus]

I know nothing about Jade. I'll leave that to others. However i get the impression that some posting are new to the region.

It is the norm for business in this part of the world not to operate as in a developed country. The terms and conditions will be be fluid, and are quite likely to change even after you have sign contracts. Dont expect there to be uniform contracts. There may be many different contracts. There may be no mention of bonds, but at the 11th hour, you will be required to sign one. You will need to be flexible in your approach to the job.

The pearl river delta can be a great place to live, and work. Be aware that it is also very heavily polluted. It is said the pollution is like smoking 8 cigarettes a day. As for bird flu...well if it hits, be expecting to be treated in the same way many of us were treated when SARS hit.

IBT

[PIA747]

AAIGUY.

I believe you are on the Classics. Is Jade accepting Classic Captains? what is their age rule?

[AAIGUY]

AAIGUY.
I believe you are on the Classics. Is Jade accepting Classic Captains? what is their age rule?


Don't know, I am 30.
Will post if I find out.

[Start4&3]

:hmm:

Ahh, the irony. :)

TP

Ha ha ha, you beat me to it. I can't believe he passed.

[rwethereyet]

Anybody out there with more info.....I have an interview from 6-10th March in SZX but called the contact person asking for T&C's and only managed to get the official start date of July 1st and that they send you to Seattle for the type rating.....anybody else going!? Any more news!?:confused:

[alexb757]

Very interesting posts.......FYI, I have been invited to interview in Shenzhen in Mar and was somewhat sceptical. Now that I have seen some of the posts, it has confirmed my suspicions.
Well aware that there is always risks involved with a new start-up. However, with the German connection and China being an economic powerhouse, I was hopeful that this might be a good gig. Now, I'm not so sure.
Let's get some facts (based on previous posters & my experience/communicatios with the company even before I travel at my own expense).
1. The medical is the equivalent of a NASA astronaut physical (similar to EVA and the Japanese carriers) designed for 20-year-old air force pilots with an 80% failure rate. No chance for any discussion or waivers, even for minor ailments.
2. You pay your airfare to the interview which may cost hundreds of dollars/pounds/euros which will be refunded on subsequent employment. Based on 1. above, the odds of a 40+ year old making the medical is minimal therefore, the company is saving money right from the git go because the vast majority of candidates who do travel there will not make it. Smart move, Jade.
3. No details on pay, benefits or accommodation given. Even in the interview. That's amazing! They expect you to travel all that way, jump through all the hoops and cannot even answer the basics??? What kind of company is this or will be?
4. Very little chance for FOs to upgrade or at very least, prohibitedly difficult.
5. Little or no job security.
Does this sound like a company that will value its employees regardless of national origin?
I don't know about anyone else out there, but when I seriously consider a company (start-up or established) I draw up a list of pluses and negatives. I previously had a bunch of pluses for Jade but now the negatives outweigh the benefits. Sounds like one big risk. doesn't it?
I'm rated on the classic with less than 500 hours yet I got a quick response from their initial ad back in Nov 2005 (maybe because so many better qualified guys are failing the selection?). I've flown in China (not lived there but elsewhere in Asia) before and also cargo so know a little about that part of the world. Plus I know plenty of guys that have either flown for EVA and various Japaneses carriers. Not making direct comparisons but it seems there are just too many -ves here, at least for me.
Someone asked about age limits and bonding.
The age limits are on the original ad and pertain to whether you are type rated on the -400 or not. I've been told that the training is in SEA with Alteon (formerly Boeing FlightSafety).
Bonding is not mentioned in the ad, probably not answered at the interview and if it is a condition of employment, will most likely be sprung on you just prior to training! There are many different types of bonding and this could be a major area if you don't know what your'e up against. Looks too good to be true? Then it probably is, is the usual story. I'm beginning to think that this is so true.
No one so far has mentioned Chinese visas. What's the scoop there? I asked Jade about that and was told that if you have a British passport, you can get a landing visa in HKG through one of the Chinese travel agencies - but no specifics given. One would be going there as a private citizen by invitation on business (F class visa), not as a tourist nor as a crew member on a gen dec. What about non-British passport holders? The process for the US citizens involve personally going to a Chinese consulate/embassy in America to complete the paperwork and then up to two weeks to process! Talk about making it difficult! Any comments on this from anyone who has done it?
I do not live in Europe, so I don't think they would be sending me to FRA for anything. I've been told to come to Shenzhen for everything - 737NG or 777 sim is what I've been given.
To go or not to go to interview, that is indeed the question! More food for thought........
I'm surprised that the Germans are not more involved in the selection process or are they? Maybe they have an agenda? Lots of unanswered questions.:confused:

[alexb757]

Hi chaps have read your thread with interest.
I am 747-400 rated with 5000 hours on type and have not heard a word from this mob. I wonder if they are looking for people who will do anything to get on the jumbo. Most likely you will not have any flight time limitations and if you complain about anything, (once your are employed) you will probably find yourself unemployed very quickly.
Shenzen is a dump like most of southern china so if you go there expect very poluted air and most people will not speak english.
Max
:uhoh:

Not doubting you, Max, but I've been told the opposite about Shenzhen! Never been there myself but my source is a Chinese person living in the UK. Same said person also tells me that most people speak English there being a "special admininstrative area" (like HKG). Again, that goes against some other previous comments on this thread.
So, my question is, who do you believe and what do you believe? Just trying to get accurate info here. Further comments, plse.

[alexb757]

Hardly inspiring words, Theseus, cultural differences or not. What then is the GREAT incentive for people to go half-way around the world for a maybe? To get screwed??

I know nothing about Jade. I'll leave that to others. However i get the impression that some posting are new to the region.
It is the norm for business in this part of the world not to operate as in a developed country. The terms and conditions will be be fluid, and are quite likely to change even after you have sign contracts. Dont expect there to be uniform contracts. There may be many different contracts. There may be no mention of bonds, but at the 11th hour, you will be required to sign one. You will need to be flexible in your approach to the job.
The pearl river delta can be a great place to live, and work. Be aware that it is also very heavily polluted. It is said the pollution is like smoking 8 cigarettes a day. As for bird flu...well if it hits, be expecting to be treated in the same way many of us were treated when SARS hit.
IBT

[jetjockey696]

Hi Guys

Please could someone give me the HQ address for Jade cargo and shenzhen airlines.. I have been searching through the web.. only to find that the shenzhen airlines website is in chinese no english.

thanks

JJ696

[alexb757]

It's not that hard to find. Virtually all foreign websites will have an English translation link somewhere on the home page. You might need to know some basic Chinese though!!!!

Here's the info:

Address: Jade Cargo International Company Ltd., Shenzhen Airlines, Flight Operations Bldg, 6/F, Baoan International Airport, 518128 Shenzhen, Guangdong, P.R.C.

Tel: +86 (755)299 10 279 Fax: +86 (755)299 10 309

Website:www.jadecargo.comEmail:flightrecruitment @jadecargo.com

Now you can ask them all the questions everyone here is dying to know! Keep in mind that probably because of cultural reasons, they may not want to answer many questions as that is seen as disrespectful at worse or lacking in motivation at best. Good luck!!!!!:ok:

[AAIGUY]

If anyone is going to go on the 6th, I look forward to meeting you.

[alexb757]

If anyone is going to go on the 6th, I look forward to meeting you.

AAIGuy - check yr PM;)

[jetjockey696]

Thank you Alexb757 for your address. Greatly appreciated. I check out most chinese sites, myself and my parents (chinese) could not find the english sites.

In some funny way, it is a basic elimination process already...if you can;t read chinese you are gonna find it TOUGH in this airline.

All wannabe's...life tough already..what's a little more.

jj969

[alexb757]

Thank you Alexb757 for your address. Greatly appreciated. I check out most chinese sites, myself and my parents (chinese) could not find the english sites.
In some funny way, it is a basic elimination process already...if you can;t read chinese you are gonna find it TOUGH in this airline. All wannabe's...life tough already..what's a little more.
jj969

Having said that, English is obviously a mandatory requirement here being the international language of aviation. Jade even require you to take a test in English fluency as part of their hiring process. Good luck!

[Deske1]

Having said that, English is obviously a mandatory requirement here being the international language of aviation. Jade even require you to take a test in English fluency as part of their hiring process. Good luck!


Hope they ask the same from the local pilots also.......:bored:

[alexb757]

Hope they ask the same from the local pilots also.......:bored:

I'm sure the English test will the SAME for all. Think about it. Why are they recruiting internationally and particulary Western pilots? Not only do they have to have technically competent pilots, but ones whose command of English is above average.
Communcations with ATC, other aircraft etc. is vital if you are going to fly internationally otherwise safety is compromised. Like I said before, part of Jade's selection process is an English language proficiency test. If you are going to interview, they would have told you this. How easy or hard it will be remains to be see. Let's just say, not many airlines have an English test as part of their selection, therefore Jade is taking this aspect seriously.
So, get practicing!

[IGS13]

Any update from the ongoing interview process? Pay, start date, terms and conditions? Opinions of Shenzhen?

[alexb757]

Any update from the ongoing interview process? Pay, start date, terms and conditions? Opinions of Shenzhen?

Hold your horses, IGS! The interviews are on-going all this week. Give the candidates a chance to get home first!!!:hmm:

[columbia747]

just finished my interview,sim,medical and waiting for the final results from the stress test.All by all a very positive experience.The people I met from Jade are all motivated,helpfull and the chief pilot seems to be a nice person.It is a young start up company looking for motivated pilots,people that are prepared to go one step further and prepared to push the company in the good direction.It is normal that in the beginning a lot of things have to be sorted out and you can not expect that you will make straight away fantastic salaries.China and especially the Senzhen area is fantastic to make a living and on top of that you can fly a beautiful brand new 744.Off course you always got the guys that expect everything from the first moment they set foot in a company and people that are specialized in moaning and complaining,even if they make 20000 usd.I give Jade my confidence,and will be most happy to join them:ok:

[14L]

for me it apppears pretty strange as well what they offer.
have heard they don´t give contracts after positive screenings and further funny things.

have been invited four (4!) times now each time responding I am not willing to come as long as they don´t pay for the trip ( as CAL does i.e).

C´mon people the market is opening for us all it´s time to take the rudder into our hands. if they need pilots why the hell don´t they pay for the trips?? Why the hell do the airlines still treat us like dogs.

No drivers no ops. damn it

app dragon air and qatar now

cheerz

[alexb757]

for me it apppears pretty strange as well what they offer.
have heard they don´t give contracts after positive screenings and further funny things.

have been invited four (4!) times now each time responding I am not willing to come as long as they don´t pay for the trip ( as CAL does i.e).

C´mon people the market is opening for us all it´s time to take the rudder into our hands. if they need pilots why the hell don´t they pay for the trips?? Why the hell do the airlines still treat us like dogs.

No drivers no ops. damn it

app dragon air and qatar now

cheerz

Well, one reason might be that they are a start-up and as such have no interline agreements in place, limited funding and no airplanes on the line.

While I agree with you to a certain extent, I'd like to point out that there are plenty of other, already long-standing carriers (in the US) such as Atlas/Polar Air, Kalitta Air, Omni Air International etc., all of whom ask the candidates to foot the airfare to interview. Some will pay for the hotel - just like Jade - others expect you to do it all, if you want the job. Besides, Jade said they would refund the airfare, if you get hired.

Like it or not, it is becoming "normal" practice for may airlines as part of their cost-cutting measures and this is why you should do your homework on the company and why you would want to work there. If you feel it's too much of a burden or risk, then don't go, is the simply answer.

Another way of looking at it, is that most job hunting expenses such as travel to interview (especially air transportation overseas), is a tax deductible (see your tax advisor for more details). I've used this many times when I've considered the risk worth forking out hundreds, if not thousands in going to various interviews. Sometimes you might get the company to go half-way and reimburse you half the airfare, it really depends on the airline and even tthe country. If you don't ask, you don't get, is a good adage.

Keep in mind that the airline business is unique when compared to most other professions. Yes, another company may pay for you to relocate to another part of the country or even overseas, but that does not mean that every company will do it! The airline industry is truly global and unfortunately, it does mean travelling long distances to interview and get the job.

I'm not saying I agree that airlines should get the candidate to pay to get there, I'm saying what I have experienced in recent years and this is not uncommon at all. At least Jade were up-front about it, so you knew before you went what the deal was. I, too, was called for interview and that was one of the deciding factors why I did not go (there were others). And I might change my mind later.

[alexb757]

You did not mention what these strange things were!
Again, I'm not saying it's the bees knees but if you did your homework, you might understand a bit more what an airline like this is all about. Also, if they called/emailed you, did you ask specific questions of them? I always have a list of what I consider basic, fundamental questions. I gather as much info as I can from their website and forums such as this and ask people lots of questions. Then, I decide if it's worth my time (and money) to go or not go.

Not sure what you meant by not offering contracts. Did you ask? What is your source?

The biggest thing here is that this is the first time that there is a foriegn interest in a mainland Chinese airline, so they are bound to have teething problems especially if they are a start-up as well! You have to consider the Chinese cultural thing in that they are probably not used to having lots of foreigners involved in the business on their soil or doing it Western style. Having said that, I understand that the management pilots will all be Westerners and I assume have the know-how of how to run an airline. One source tells me that the reason that things seem in disarray is that they are still ironing out the details of it all. Maybe in China they don't have contracts, I've no idea. But I think things will change slowly as they will have to embrace the global culture if they are to be a success.

[LindbergB767]

I am sorry guys but a Cie who can not tell you what is the package they are offering do not look pretty serious to me
By the way ALEX it is a new Cie .but This is Shenzen Airlines starting a new Cie with Lufthanza . Even the pilots working for Shenzen Airlines do not have any travelling agreements.
With their system they can interview 1000 pilots without spending one cent This is pretty cheap
AT least They should tell what is the package THEN you decide if you are ready to spend that kind of money
When you buy 6 brand new Aircraft for 1,200,000,000 US and that you are looking for experienced pilots you should be able to pay for their planes ticket

[Loopy]

I am amazed to see the number of whores still on the street willing to pay for their travel and even type rating. As an individual I can’t do much but to spit on their face when ever I come across the few of them.
These are the same people that carry their own Vaseline when called to Ops. For favors or backstabbing instructions.

[columbia747]

there are still pilots in the world that like their job and love to fly a beautiful b744,that has nothing to do with vaseline.By the way other people more down to earth have to pay for their travel aswell when they go for an interview..........so time to come out of your ivory tower and get in the real world where there is competition and people that make 1500 usd per month for a living;)

[alexb757]

I am sorry guys but a Cie who can not tell you what is the package they are offering do not look pretty serious to me
By the way ALEX it is a new Cie .but This is Shenzen Airlines starting a new Cie with Lufthanza . Even the pilots working for Shenzen Airlines do not have any travelling agreements.
With their system they can interview 1000 pilots without spending one cent This is pretty cheap
AT least They should tell what is the package THEN you decide if you are ready to spend that kind of money
When you buy 6 brand new Aircraft for 1,200,000,000 US and that you are looking for experienced pilots you should be able to pay for their planes ticket

Yes, I know! I did my homework on Jade and know all about them being a new airline, the connection with Germany etc. etc.
I did my homework and decided not to attend! One of my reasons was the airfare which, for me, would have been more than yours!

If everyone did their homework diligently, then you would know what the "deal" is then you could make an informed decision based on your personal circumstances.

Loopy - maybe you haven't heard but there are all kinds of people out there with different circumstances. Hard to believe, I know but not everyone is like you:} !! You know nothing about them, so cannot judge them.
I do not decry them trying. Maybe it's right for them. Each to his own I say.
Just do your homework and THEN decide whether to go or not. This really is not rocket science, guys!!!:ok:

[14L]

Alex,

you do a lot of homework as it seems, a good preparation is always hal´f the way to get anywhere. Absolutely correct! Well ,done. I do my homerwork as well and I a part of it is collectiong information.

you asked me about my sources, I ´ll tell you: I know to buddies who went do to shenzhen and passed the interview. they did not get any piece of paper, nothing. They don´t even know when or if they will get something.

Jade has no idea of how operation will be, no plans no detailed information. C´mon...

I am sorry but in my eyes this is ridiculous. They announce to payback for the expenses blablabla. They don´t give any benfits, you go home with nothing in your hands after the interview, even if you passed lot of funny things going on.

What kind of airline can this be?? Wow coop with Lufthansa how shiny! fly 747 more shiny even, based in shenzhen super shiny. How about giving people an idea of what they have to expect? that would be less shiny but transparent for everybody.

cheerz

[ZSSSZSPD]

hello there guys, esp. those who have been to Shenzhen for the interview :
I submitted the online application last week, haven't been called back yet.
Just kind of wondering if Jade is recruiting Chinese pilots from the mainland?Was there a yellow face there with you during the interview?
I saw the hiring ads in a Chinese BBS.Only the basic facts of the company and minimum requirememnts ,nothing about the pay, bond,insurance,etc.
I know it is a joint venture outfit,but I guess the lufthansa side isn't much involved.I don't know much the airline recruitment in the rest of the world. But if being hired by a Chinese airlines,it wouldn't surprised me if the T&Cs was to be unveiled at the last minute and be changed afterward.They do that, and we are used to it.Having said that, I sitll hope that Jade isn't as disgraceful as other Chinese counterparts.
P.S. very intrested to know how difficult is the English test.Is there any other kind of test(like TOEFL etc.) on the same level?

[AAIGUY]

Lots of Yellow faces, including a Chinese FO flying the -400 for Air China

English test was hard. It is paired with the DLR and 7 out of 12 failed that day.

After a week there. I have NO IDEA about the actual package.
I am accepting another position elsewhere.

[alexb757]

I agree wholehartedly with what you say. All I was trying to say is that the chinese are different to the rest of the world! So, don't expect the same rules and way of doing business, that's all. And if you don't like the sound of it or, they don't answer your questions satisfactorily, then DO NOT GO TO THE INTERVIEW!!!!!
Everyone is an individual and has different needs or wants. It is up to you to look at the big picture and decide if this is for you. If you are not happy with what you see/hear, then decision made! But if you get excited by shiny this and that then you run the risk of being disappointed. If you still go, knowing full well that questions are not being answered, then who can really blame for going and not getting the facts. EACH INDIVIDUAL has to make up his or her mind about that. I can only say what I did and that was, I was not satisfied with the info I was getting (I did have friends who went, despite the risks - but that was their decision), so, even though I felt flattered that I was invited, I did not go because, it was TOO BIG A RISK FOR ME!!! And judging by the responses coming back to me by those that went, I MADE THE RIGHT DECISION - FOR ME!
I had no real idea how it would turn out, but made the decision that I would not go - at least, not for now. I asked for feedback from frineds that did go and they proved me right. They spent the money and got nothing. I saved a lot of money and did not waste my time.:)
End of story......I hope you will view this as an excercise in human nature and decsion-making and I wish you well.

[alexb757]

Lots of Yellow faces, including a Chinese FO flying the -400 for Air China
English test was hard. It is paired with the DLR and 7 out of 12 failed that day.
After a week there. I have NO IDEA about the actual package.
I am accepting another position elsewhere.

Hi AAIGUY.
Your comments all seem to back up what most "feared" on this company and that is, that they are ill-prepared at this moment in time. That is an inherent risk associated with all start-up companies. Their start-up dates (July 1 for Jade) get pushed back further and further because of unseen circumstances or indeed, problems of their own making sometimes.
I have worked for start-ups before, so I'm a little more tuned than some people about this kind of thing and factored heavily in my own choice in not attending the interview. Seems like my hunches were right on the button - for a change! For you living in HKG, this was presumably, a nice few days off and a 40-minute train ride? For me it would have ended up being a trans-Pacific flight of some 14 hours, hotel and day stop in HKG, then further transportation to SXZ plus 3-4 days out of my busy schedule. All at my own cost. That's a helluva lot to ask for nothing in return and quite simply, I was not prepared to do that unless there was up-front talk. Heck, it seems that virtually all the people that went came away empty-handed! That must inevitably put a great big question mark over their recruiting methods and indeed, their start-up date subsequently.
I'm happy to sit it out and see what happens down the road before I make any decision on my long-term future f I'm going to be working overseas half-way around the world. Sooner or later, Jade will discover this too otherwise they will remain a paper airline.
Thanks for all your info and feedback. Very enlightening, indeed and let's hope we all learn a lesson or two from this.
Good luck with the new job!

[falcon330]

Hi chaps have read your thread with interest.

I am 747-400 rated with 5000 hours on type and have not heard a word from this mob. I wonder if they are looking for people who will do anything to get on the jumbo. Most likely you will not have any flight time limitations and if you complain about anything, (once your are employed) you will probably find yourself unemployed very quickly.

Shenzen is a dump like most of southern china so if you go there expect very poluted air and most people will not speak english.

Max

:uhoh:You forgot the fact , people in china(man) spit in the street, be ready for medicals to send you to the moon and mars, i lived in china for more than 12 years, trust me on this!!! did anybody say Germans??? there are so many jobs guys! keep on looking!. Happy findings!

[alexb757]

Just real curious now. Has ANYONE got anything good to say about this outfit or their experiences? It all seems negative......:{

[rwethereyet]

Gentlemen,

Just finished the entire interview process and was selected for the job.(There were 38 candidates and only 9 were selected during this screening) so this means that there are people who are interested.Yes, I did do a great deal of homework before attending and weighed the pros and cons (first time that I had to pay to attend a screening but guys at Cathay, Emirates, Singapore also have to pay for their initial transport to the interviews:hmm: .Jade did provide for accomodation and the whole screening process was very well handled and we were provided with alot of facilities....only had to pay for food which is relatively cheap and good here.):ok:
Just to clarify a few points,the T&C's are disclosed during the final interview and the VP Flt Ops has answered all questions that were asked (to the best of his ability with the current information he had) and the type rating course dates start on the 27th March/3 April/10th April.The entire package is not too bad(compared to other deals on todays market) but don't forget that this is a start up and this is also China so there is alot to iron out still and Rome wasn't built in a day.....:ugh: .
Jade is taking as much a risk by not taking any money upfront (like SINCargo and China Airlines) for the type rating so technically, someone could do the course and get the rating on his foreign licence and just walk away.....it's a two way street as I see it and other viewpoints are welcomed.
If you look at the big picture,there is Shenzhen Airlines, Lufthansa cargo and a big German Development bank backing this project so there should be some kind of funding behind it.They have already upfronted 90 million dollars and haven't turned a wheel yet....:cool: .....think about it.
It was a big gamble to attend and maybe it will pay off and maybe it won't but how are you supposed to find out if you don't try(call me naive). Not everybody is in the same position and I respect all points of view (except for Loopy who needs to grow up,get some manners and a:mad: life).There are many jobs out there and they will need reasonably qualified people so even if this outfit doesn't take off,then it's time to move to plan B.....Just to answer a few other remarks mentioned, yes the place is full of yellow faces but this is CHINA...helloooo and the Chinese were not offered any positions here.Too much red tape for this to happen.
That's all for now so good luck to everybody in their future endeavours...Alex757 check your pm......
;)

[Phil Squares]

Gentlemen,

Just finished the entire interview process and was selected for the job.(There were 38 candidates and only 9 were selected during this screening) so this means that there are people who are interested.Yes, I did do a great deal of homework before attending and weighed the pros and cons (first time that I had to pay to attend a screening but guys at Cathay, Emirates, Singapore also have to pay for their initial transport to the interviews:hmm: .Jade did provide for accomodation and the whole screening process was very well handled and we were provided with alot of facilities....only had to pay for food which is relatively cheap and good here.):ok:
Just to clarify a few points,the T&C's are disclosed during the final interview and the VP Flt Ops has answered all questions that were asked (to the best of his ability with the current information he had) and the type rating course dates start on the 27th March/3 April/10th April.The entire package is not too bad(compared to other deals on todays market) but don't forget that this is a start up and this is also China so there is alot to iron out still and Rome wasn't built in a day.....:ugh: .
Jade is taking as much a risk by not taking any money upfront (like SINCargo and China Airlines) for the type rating so technically, someone could do the course and get the rating on his foreign licence and just walk away.....it's a two way street as I see it and other viewpoints are welcomed.
If you look at the big picture,there is Shenzhen Airlines, Lufthansa cargo and a big German Development bank backing this project so there should be some kind of funding behind it.They have already upfronted 90 million dollars and haven't turned a wheel yet....:cool: .....think about it.
It was a big gamble to attend and maybe it will pay off and maybe it won't but how are you supposed to find out if you don't try(call me naive). Not everybody is in the same position and I respect all points of view (except for Loopy who needs to grow up,get some manners and a:mad: life).There are many jobs out there and they will need reasonably qualified people so even if this outfit doesn't take off,then it's time to move to plan B.....Just to answer a few other remarks mentioned, yes the place is full of yellow faces but this is CHINA...helloooo and the Chinese were not offered any positions here.Too much red tape for this to happen.
That's all for now so good luck to everybody in their future endeavours...Alex757 check your pm......
;)


At SQ, you don't pay for initial transport to the interview!

If the T&Cs are so good, why don't you share them with everyone else????

[rwethereyet]

Hey PS,
No need to get aggro about this:suspect: .....needed to get some shut eye and here are the T&C's they offer......and for my own info,even if you go for the SIN Cargo interview, don't you have to pay your own way!?Anyways, it's the principle of the thing....I would rather shell out 600 bucks to get across here than have to sign a $20000 bank loan guarantee....you will understand the rest in the description.....
Secundo,I never said that they were "so good" as you put it but rather stated that they were "not too bad compared to other deals on the market".....just to clarify a couple of points :} .

As for salary,it's USD9500/month for captains and USD6500/month for F/O's and here are the drawbacks.....this includes housing/per diem/and will be paid in equivalent yuan currency to be deposited in a Chinese bank account (as far as I understood). This has to do with the Chinese tax laws.....
For non type rated pilots, a monthly sum of USD1200 will be deducted from your salary for three years but you will be fully reimbursed this cumulative sum after completeing the 3 years.( It's a big gamble on their part :ugh: since you can technically walk away from Jade with a full 744F type rating).....
During initial training, you will only be paid USD6300/month until completion of your line check.
You will have to apply for a Chinese ATPL and this has to be done before you start line flying.This involves a theoretical exam like the FAA one.
They do pay for loss of licence insurance,medical insurance,overtime after 80 hours (rate is USD100/hour), fly a maximum of 100 hours/month,relocation fee of USD2000 on a one time basis, subsidised schooling (no amount was given),37 days paid annual leave just to name a few.....
The proposed start date was July 1st but this has been pushed back to July 25th since Boeing has a delay in delivery due to a strike.
The first training class starts on March 27th then the second on April 3rd and the last on April 10th......in Seattle.Now it is up to the individuals that passed to take it or leave it.......everybody has an agenda.
Hope that this answers some of your questions.....;)

[Phil Squares]

Hey PS,
No need to get aggro about this:suspect: .....needed to get some shut eye and here are the T&C's they offer......and for my own info,even if you go for the SIN Cargo interview, don't you have to pay your own way!?Anyways, it's the principle of the thing....I would rather shell out 600 bucks to get across here than have to sign a $20000 bank loan guarantee....you will understand the rest in the description.....
Secundo,I never said that they were "so good" as you put it but rather stated that they were "not too bad compared to other deals on the market".....just to clarify a couple of points :} .

As for salary,it's USD9500/month for captains and USD6500/month for F/O's and here are the drawbacks.....this includes housing/per diem/and will be paid in equivalent yuan currency to be deposited in a Chinese bank account (as far as I understood). This has to do with the Chinese tax laws.....
For non type rated pilots, a monthly sum of USD1200 will be deducted from your salary for three years but you will be fully reimbursed this cumulative sum after completeing the 3 years.( It's a big gamble on their part :ugh: since you can technically walk away from Jade with a full 744F type rating).....
During initial training, you will only be paid USD6300/month until completion of your line check.
You will have to apply for a Chinese ATPL and this has to be done before you start line flying.This involves a theoretical exam like the FAA one.
They do pay for loss of licence insurance,medical insurance,overtime after 80 hours (rate is USD100/hour), fly a maximum of 100 hours/month,relocation fee of USD2000 on a one time basis, subsidised schooling (no amount was given),37 days paid annual leave just to name a few.....
The proposed start date was July 1st but this has been pushed back to July 25th since Boeing has a delay in delivery due to a strike.
The first training class starts on March 27th then the second on April 3rd and the last on April 10th......in Seattle.Now it is up to the individuals that passed to take it or leave it.......everybody has an agenda.
Hope that this answers some of your questions.....;)

FYI, nothing aggro about my question. It was just a statement.

And to set the record straight, SIA/SIA Cargo you DO NOT pay for transport to the interview.

[rwethereyet]

Has anybody that went through the interview process in early March heard anything from Jade yet:confused: !? I only received an e mail stating that I passed all the medical tests :eek: and that they will be in touch.......
Has anyone signed a contract yet?Courses were supposed to start on the 27th March,April 3rd and April 10th (which I was told I would be on.....!?!?)
Anybody out there.......anybody!?

[jetjockey696]

Hi guys

I know that my post is 1 dot left of the ILS, of the orginal post. I need help to track down the address or email address of HR Dept of Shenzhen Airlines,

I have seen all the horror stories.... I guess I am a person who like it rough..

So who do I write the my life story to in shenzhen air

Thanks

JJ696

[alexb757]

Hi guys
I know that my post is 1 dot left of the ILS, of the orginal post. I need help to track down the address or email address of HR Dept of Shenzhen Airlines,
I have seen all the horror stories.... I guess I am a person who like it rough..
So who do I write the my life story to in shenzhen air
Thanks
JJ696
Are you trying to get into Shenzhen Airlines or Jade Cargo?
This thread is for Jade. Shenzhen Airlines is one of 3 entities that bought into Jade Cargo International........?????????

[jetjockey696]

Hi Guys

I am sorry, I am want to apply for Shenzhen Airlines. I trying to get into this airline, because I am from this area of the country, but now i abroad.

I was wondering any have or know anyone in the recruitment area for shenzhen. I could write to (email or snail mail)

Thanks

JJ696

[inop]

why would anybody from a western country want to work for 6500 U$ before tax,without housing/per diem AND live in a place like shenzen ??????????

[jetjockey696]

The reason for me, only me! that is i am chinese, lived in the west for 30 years. I have family in shenzhen, I was born 1 hr away for the airport. I like shenzhen it alright, not to far from HK, you have everything there, if not, go to HK and get it.

I have tried so many places on this planet to get a job, i just need a break, why not china?? So like all of us who try to break into this very difficult industry...I just need afoot on rungs of this very hard slippery ladder, any thing decent will do for now.

China not is not a bad place for pilots, if you are not into highend western life style...this is the only place mistresses are tolerated with the wife :D. The Pay and conditions are better comparing to places like Philippines (F/O <1000USD, Capt. Approx 3000USD around 80 hrs), indonesia, malaysia (my friends fly for Airasia F/O he get 2200USD- 80hrs with no housing or no tax free salary, no food, no pick up, no interline travel, only free vouchers on air asia routes not much use if you live everywhere else other than southeast Asia). I do know that china need to pick up it salary...but to a local chinese pilot it a lot money.

I don't care right now about the pay or conditions, because I am single, I lived in s**t and dealt with s**t..$6500 is alot if you have nothing in china. If you stay away from the 1inch thick fillet steaks and luxury living and live within your means..it OK money. Anywhy if I get attached one day I will move to a better airline..with the hours I slaved.

So any headhunters, recruiters out there from airlines. I am willing to fly for food, drop me a PM. :ok:

Got to go, the warlord is getting a itchy finger, it time to start the props, time to run a few hundred guns cross the country...some time buliding.

jj696

[goc]

''I am willing to fly for food''

Yeap, the future of aviation looks really bright. All of my sacrifice and hard work flying cargo, air ambulance...becomes meaningless since there will always be someone willing to work for food to get ahead in this business.

jetjockey696--I assume you have no experience but the basic license. How about you aim for a piston or turbine job somewhere to get you started. After flying unpressurised aircraft in various wx conditions (3am, moderate icing, fatigue, wx at the mins.) you'll come to appreciate a paycheck every month knowing that you earned it.

[Latif-Returns]

jetjockey696 is right!

$6500US isn't bad considering what MAS and AirAsia pay...

But if you pay peanuts I guess you get monkeys :}

[rwethereyet]

OK guys, back to my original question.....has anyone received any info from JADE!?!?:confused: I was told of a start date around the 10th April!?
Thanks.

[jetjockey696]

Dear B737 rider

I have read your post today. Since you work there, is there any chance you can give me ideas of how to apply for this company...directly. because people advise to go through agencies as such. I have enough of agencies they say no to this and that... a hassle..I just want to show Shenzhen airlines this is what I got kind thing.

I know I am sucker. I just need the experience, not the money or conditions just yet.

So any email, mail, fax etc. and who to contact, so I can send my CV.

thanks

JJ696

[zhengdong]

According to my experience, I have some experience to be shared with you guys

1. Most of Chinese airlines are short of pilots especially experienced captains. In China, Chinese pilots are very difficult to change their employers since all employers regard their pilots as capital assets. Many lawsuits arise from the pilots resignations. It sounds funny that Chinese pilots would not resign without employers approval. Right now there are many private newly airlines being set up. There don’t have pilots. They headhunt pilots from established airlines. But the established airlines are also facing the shortage of pilots. Now pilot becomes a popular career in China.
2. Although most of Chinese airlines are short of pilots, they are not very prepared to hire expat pilots. Hainan is the first Chinese mainland airlines who had hired two Australian B737 captain on 2002. They just worked for Hainan for two years and left. I sounded the two guys were happy with Hainan Airlines. From the beginning of 2004, Shenzhen Airlines hired almost 60 expat pilots. Most of thos expats are captains. Now there are about 20 guys still flying. As many expat pilots said, there are many problems happened in Shenzhen Airlines. All of them are focused on the their managing level. Sometimes the salary is not important. Most of the complains focus on the flight safety management, roster, international training, English communication, etc. We had one US captain resigned from Shenzhen because he was not happy with their flight safety management and moved to Hainan. He is happy with Hainan. Different Chinese airlines has different managing level. By my idea, Hainan is the best Chinese airlines in China Mainland.
3. As for the screening procedures, it was easy before 2005. But at the beginning of 2005, with more and more expat pilots coming, CAAC worked out a regulation for the expat pilots recruitment, screening, management. The Chinese airlines who want to hire expat pilots have got headache on the new regulation. As the regulation, the screening will take very long time and cost a lot of money. So for any expat pilot who wants to fly in China mainland it would be thought about carefully.
4. If you are lucky to pass all screening procedures and got your CAAC ATPL license, you may have more options to move to any other Chinese airlines who are madly seeking pilots.
5. Different airlines have their different policies. Jade Cargo doesn’t pay your interview tickets.But Air China Cargo may allow you to take their flights to Beijing to take interview.
6. If not wear color glasses, you will find that Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen are good places to live for foreigners. I realized that Beijing has some air pollutions. Shenzhen and Shanghai are better.

Just want to share with you about the information of flight jobs in China.

Thanks.

[Fly747]

I know the post above is advertising Mr Mod but it sounds authorative and maybe deserves a wider audience in a thread of it's own.

[SRS]

I hear that Vega-Aviation , based in Macau, also have many foreign pilots working in China. The man to talk to is Capt. Rogrigo Passos. Sorry but I do not have details but you can find what you need on their web site.

[MACH.8]

Any folks out there with latest info on Jade Cargo, please.
ie; Start of operation date, T&C, airplanes arriving in Shenzhen etc.

Understand some pilots already in US doing training.

Many thanks

[alexb757]

Any folks out there with latest info on Jade Cargo, please.
ie; Start of operation date, T&C, airplanes arriving in Shenzhen etc.

Understand some pilots already in US doing training.

Many thanks

Not much news either. My friend who attended the first interview and passed the selection, until a few weeks before the firts class had not heard a word and he was supposed to start on Apr 10. Have not heard back from him, so no idea if he actually started or not.
Apparently, they put back the start-up date from Jul 1 to Jul 25 or thereabouts.
Awfully quiet out there on this outfit........

[klink]

Today an ad in FLIGHT
Apply online at: http://pilot.jadecargo.com
NO Pay or conditions mentioned..

[alexb757]

Today an ad in FLIGHT
Apply online at: http://pilot.jadecargo.com
NO Pay or conditions mentioned..

Most of these airlines do NOT post anything like that with initial adverts. You have to be invited to interview to get those details and at your own cost, too.
Have not heard from any of the guys who did attend the early March interviews/selection process. All gone very quiet, Draw own conclusions....

[MACH.8]

Many thanks alexb757 and Mack Tuck for the info..

[alexb757]

Many thanks alexb757 and Mack Tuck for the info..

For what it's worth, Jade has a new ad, still looking for Capts & FOs in flightglobal.com - the on-line equiv of Flight International Jobs. It's basically the same ad that came out last November but it asks all candidates who have not yet been screened, to resubmit their apps.
I guess they are not getting either the quantity or quality of people they were hoping for. But, I could be wrong.......

[moon_towers]

The reason for me, only me! that is i am chinese, lived in the west for 30 years. I have family in shenzhen, I was born 1 hr away for the airport. I like shenzhen it alright, not to far from HK, you have everything there, if not, go to HK and get it.
I have tried so many places on this planet to get a job, i just need a break, why not china?? So like all of us who try to break into this very difficult industry...I just need afoot on rungs of this very hard slippery ladder, any thing decent will do for now.
China not is not a bad place for pilots, if you are not into highend western life style...this is the only place mistresses are tolerated with the wife :D. The Pay and conditions are better comparing to places like Philippines (F/O <1000USD, Capt. Approx 3000USD around 80 hrs), indonesia, malaysia (my friends fly for Airasia F/O he get 2200USD- 80hrs with no housing or no tax free salary, no food, no pick up, no interline travel, only free vouchers on air asia routes not much use if you live everywhere else other than southeast Asia). I do know that china need to pick up it salary...but to a local chinese pilot it a lot money.
I don't care right now about the pay or conditions, because I am single, I lived in s**t and dealt with s**t..$6500 is alot if you have nothing in china. If you stay away from the 1inch thick fillet steaks and luxury living and live within your means..it OK money. Anywhy if I get attached one day I will move to a better airline..with the hours I slaved.
So any headhunters, recruiters out there from airlines. I am willing to fly for food, drop me a PM. :ok:
Got to go, the warlord is getting a itchy finger, it time to start the props, time to run a few hundred guns cross the country...some time buliding.
jj696


jj696,

can you drop me PM
tks.

[jetjockey696]

Please check your messages moon towers

thank you

jj696

[sizematters]

$8000 US Dollars a month for Captains...................provided your type rated, less $1200 a month if not type rated so a non type rated Captain will bank $6,800 US Dollars, No loss of Licence, No medical insurance, no provident/ pension fund....................this is based on flying 50 hours a month (Flying hours not credit hours)

The way they explain the salary is this:

Base Salary is $5,500 a month but they GUARENTEE to pay you for 50 hour at $50/hour hence you will get $8000 as a CAPTAIN, but they expect you to fly 80 hours hence the additional 30 hours @ $50/hour to make it $9,500......................of course there is not a hope in Hell you'll fly 80 hours a month, you'll maybe do 50 as they will be busy training for at least two years

Days off.........Guarenteed 3 consecutive days a month, but 9 days off total, maybe 2 in Amsterdam, I in somewhere else and a couple of blocks of 2 or 3 in Shenzen......................

Per Diem...........$3 us dollars an hour............BUT............from the time you LAND at the destination till the time you LEAVE the destination, after all they are paying you $50/hour flight pay, why do you need any more???


This whole offer is a joke. they are getting some takers but all Non Type rated who are getting a very nice -400 course with British airways, and no doubt when they have a few hours under the belt they will just go work for someone who is prepared to pay a realistic salary.................

lots of excuse's about "you have to appreciate we are a start up, and things will gt better (yeah, right, please Mr.Tooth fairy) the guy who tells you about the salary scheme is so embarrasssed he can hardly look at you then mumbles about how, these scales are hard to decipher !!!

the bond is a joke though so if you want a type rating and 6 months being paid peanuts to then go elsewhere, come and take advantage of this very generous scheme..............you sign on and they deduct $1200 a month for 3 years end of story, so if you wait to pay day and leave they can chase you round a bit but I doubt they'll see any money back, even if you have to pay them the 1200 you can go work elsewhere and be considerably better off...........

Lots of very pleasant people at Jade, but the selection process is a joke and they will end up employing a lot of "bottom of the barrel" because no one who can do the job will work for this money................they actually passed some people on the sim ride who I personally wouldn't let loose on a push bike to the shops, let alone look after a shiny new -400..................still the first insurance claim is inevitable and that will obliterate the cost savings from the "Cheap" crews for the next 50 years...................

Final word, UNLESS YOUR DESPERATE, AND IN NEED OF A -400 RATING

FORGET IT !!!

[alexb757]

The writing is on the wall here, isn't it?
Salary/pay - well below industry standards, even for a start-up. All start-ups use that famous phrase because that's the only way they can justify it.
Also, the more complex you make the pay and per diems etc, the more likely that there is a hidden agenda such as....you'll never make it to 80 hours a month.
Interesting that the majority of "successful" candidates are not typed. Normally, you would expect at least a 50-50 split.
$1200 out of your monthly pay towards the training costs for 3 years. Who came up with that figure and more importantly, how was it derived? To the uninitiated, a 744 type on average costs around $12-30K, depending on which training organisation you use. Boeing's Alteon in SEA charges around $13,000 (not including hotac). So, at that rate, if YOU were paying the type yourself at the SAME deductible rate, it would take approx 1 year to pay it off. My question is why are they insisting to deduct 1200/month for THREE years??? That's far too much. It would be cheaper if you bought the rating right off the bat!!! Are they going to give any of this "withheld" money back after 3 years if you stay? With interest?
As you can see, this whole thing generates far more questions than it answers. It is clearly not the plump job that it first seemed. I suppose if you want to fly a nice new 744 and build some time it's OK but at what sacrifice? Are you paying a hefty mortgage at home? KIds in school or university? How often will you get home?
You really need to weigh the advantages - such as they are (or not!) against the downers before you decide if this is for you. IT might well be OK for some but I suspect the veterans among us expect a little bit more and not have our intelligence called into question.
Have a nice day!

[figleaf]

To reclarify: Jade are investing in expensive aircraft and expensive training, but they are going cheap on pilots. The contract is $8000 net (they dont seem to have worked out the gross yet though i am sure tax in Shenzen is not secret), for a Capt ,type rated, flying 50 hours. $5600 for a first officer. deduct $1200 per month from these figures if not type rated. There is no accomodation allowance, no medical insurance, very poor loss of license insurance and $3 per hour per diem but not from signing on to signing off, these are from arrival to departure. There is no guaranteed time off at home (eg the usual 9 days per month or so, 12 with Asiana!) The cherry on the cake is that you will have to sit the Chinese ATPL. Above $50 hrs per month you will recieve $50 per hour (it is $160 per hour before.) with one aircraft arriving in jul and one in Nov it will be many years before you fly more that 50 hours so the $9500 p/a is a smokescreen. Also of course if you go on leave etc the salary will drop to the basic 50 hour salary.
The staff of the company are charming and Shenzen is a nice place however they have made a bad decision to be the poorest paying 747-400 operator on the planet. Firstly it sends the wrong messages about the company, secondly it will cost them in the long term: type rated pilots will get fed up when they see their final net salary and move on to other operators. In the unlikely event that the company can retrieve the $1200 per month 'bond' it will still be worth the move because Jade are paying SO far below the market rate. Additionally the company is having to pay for line trainers etc from another source because they do not pay enough to recruit their own type rated experience. ironically this will cost them more than paying the market rate for such pilots in the first place.

Jade's LOWEST offer should be: Min $9750 net capt, $6750 f/o regardless of hours flown. Overtime after 80 hours. Accomodation allowance, loss of license ins, medical insurance, $4 per hour per diem from sign on to sign off and guaranteed min of 9 days at home per month.(The latter could be at no cost with their present planned manning of 12 crews per aircraft by using a sophisticated scheduling system). This package would still be below the competition packages but may make Jade attractive enough. As it is they have badly miscalculated the contract and are likely to attract the waifs and strays of the industry. They will certainly be starting operations wthout enough experienced type rated crews and this can only come back and haunt them.

[alexb757]

To reclarify: Jade are investing in expensive aircraft and expensive training, but they are going cheap on pilots. The contract is $8000 net (they dont seem to have worked out the gross yet though i am sure tax in Shenzen is not secret), for a Capt ,type rated, flying 50 hours. $5600 for a first officer. deduct $1200 per month from these figures if not type rated. There is no accomodation allowance, no medical insurance, very poor loss of license insurance and $3 per hour per diem but not from signing on to signing off, these are from arrival to departure. There is no guaranteed time off at home (eg the usual 9 days per month or so, 12 with Asiana!) The cherry on the cake is that you will have to sit the Chinese ATPL. Above $50 hrs per month you will recieve $50 per hour (it is $160 per hour before.) with one aircraft arriving in jul and one in Nov it will be many years before you fly more that 50 hours so the $9500 p/a is a smokescreen. Also of course if you go on leave etc the salary will drop to the basic 50 hour salary.
The staff of the company are charming and Shenzen is a nice place however they have made a poor decision to be the poorest paying 747-400 operator on the planet. Firstly it sends the wrong messages about the company, secondly it will cost them in the long term: type rated pilots will get fed up when they see their final net salary and move on to other operators. In the unlikely event that the company can retrieve the $1200 per month 'bond' it will still be worth the move because Jade are paying SO far below the market rate. Additionally the company is having to pay for line trainers etc from another source because they do not pay enough to recruit their own type rated experience. ironically this will cost them more than paying the market rate for such pilots in the first place.

Jade's LOWEST offer should be: Min $9500 net capt $6500 f/o regardless of hours flown. Overtime after 80 hours. Accomodation allowance, loss of license ins, medical insurance, $4 per hour per diem from sign on to sign off and guaranteed min of 9 days at home per month. This would still be below the competition packages but may make Jade attractive enough. As it is they have badly miscalculated the contract and are likely to attract the waifs and strays of the industry. They will certainly be starting operations wthout enough experienced type rated crews and this can only come back and haunt them.

Couldn't have said it better myself!
There is NEVER anything to be gained, certainly not long-term, by being the LOWEST paying operator for the type. This type of strategy usually comes back to haunt those that strove for it and in the end, it will end up costing them far more than they imagined. Just think of the possible turnover costs!
Certainly, they will not be getting very many experienced guys or indeed, the most prized pilots - the trainers, unless there is substantial improvement in this package. Heck, I'm just a lowly FO with tons of international experience including cargo and I already get paid FAR more than this, including per diem. What is my incentive to move to a lower-paying job where I also won't get to fly that much?!!
Jade will get what they ask for, which is a pity because there are plenty of ways to keep costs low - even for a start-up, than cream the very people you depend on. I wish them and those who join luck, because they'll all need it..........

[sizematters]

Apparently Jade has some 24 pilots training, mainly with British Airways but some 8 (not sure if 8 pilots or 8 crews, suspect 8 pilots) are training with Boeing (Alteon) as they got the courses at Boeing thrown in with the aircraft purchase......................Of course none of these folks have any -400 experience and in most cases no wide body or Ultra long haul experience, and having attended the screening in Shenzen everyone I spoke to who was type rated wouldn't consider working for the pittance that Jade wants to offer.............................The first aircraft is apparently arriving 25th July and they expect to Operate to Amsterdam twice a week and some obscure place in Italy plus flights to Incheon. They will have seconded British Airways pilots to do Line training for them, so BA must be laughing all the way to the Bank..............................

Jade needs to take a look at the market..................AND GET REAL

[Captain Mercurius]

Gentleman,

German ourfit ,BA training, are you seriously talking ?

The last info. I have received is that, the medical it is extremelly difficult,and the DLR guys give no mercy at all, on their exams.:\

They even failed a guy because he is single parent !:eek:

The screening process it is really meant for astronauts, and Jade Cargo does not give any real support to the candidates meantime on selection process.

Things are not quite well organized in there.

Candidates have to find their way out to solve unplaned events.

Mercurius:

[alexb757]

Gentleman,
German ourfit ,BA training, are you seriously talking ?
The last info. I have received is that, the medical it is extremelly difficult,and the DLR guys give no mercy at all, on their exams.:\
They even failed a guy because he is single parent !:eek:
The screening process it is really meant for astronauts, and Jade Cargo does not give any real support to the candidates meantime on selection process.
Things are not quite well organized in there.
Candidates have to find their way out to solve unplaned events.
Mercurius:

It is nota German outfit!!!!!
DEG and LH Cargo are partners and hold about 49% share. The rest is SHenzhen airlines - take a look at the ads and their website (if you can get to it).
Also, the medical is no secret. It's been mentioned many times before and is similar to what you do with the Japanese carriers, EVA Air or the majority of Asian carriers. The reason for this is that they do not give license validations and if you want to fly their Chinese/Taiwanese/Japanese registered aircraft, you will need to get an initial ATPL from their respective civil aviation authorities. Part of that deal is you also need an initial medical which in any country is going to be the most difficult/intensive. Yes, they do go to extremes as these medicals are designed for "20-year-old potential air force pilots." Therefore, if they have 40-50-year olds applying, many will find it tough unless they go through a fitness program BEFORE attending. That is precisely why so many fail. I'm not saying it's the right way - merely telling those that don't know what it is all about.
So, if you think you might have difficulty making the grade, you really have two choices. Get with the program or don't apply. Simple!
As I have said many times, you need to do your homework and dcide if this is for you. The unprepared candidate WILL be in for a BIG surprise and it will cost him/her in both time and money wasted....:ok:

[sizematters]

Actually they have chilled a bit on the medical front, give the jade guys their due they had various meetings to sort the medical problem and explain to the doctors that you have to make allowance for age.....................
The DLR part is just a pshyc profile, and english test followed by a CRM assessment questionaire, non of which should be a problem to anyone who can speak english.............................the sim assessment is very easy and as long as you don't crash you are likely to pass the sim

trouble is after all that they tell you what they are offering by way of salary


at this point most people lose interest !!!!

[columbia747]

$8000 US Dollars a month for Captains...................provided your type rated, less $1200 a month if not type rated so a non type rated Captain will bank $6,800 US Dollars, No loss of Licence, No medical insurance, no provident/ pension fund....................this is based on flying 50 hours a month (Flying hours not credit hours)

The way they explain the salary is this:

Base Salary is $5,500 a month but they GUARENTEE to pay you for 50 hour at $50/hour hence you will get $8000 as a CAPTAIN, but they expect you to fly 80 hours hence the additional 30 hours @ $50/hour to make it $9,500......................of course there is not a hope in Hell you'll fly 80 hours a month, you'll maybe do 50 as they will be busy training for at least two years

Days off.........Guarenteed 3 consecutive days a month, but 9 days off total, maybe 2 in Amsterdam, I in somewhere else and a couple of blocks of 2 or 3 in Shenzen......................

Per Diem...........$3 us dollars an hour............BUT............from the time you LAND at the destination till the time you LEAVE the destination, after all they are paying you $50/hour flight pay, why do you need any more???


This whole offer is a joke. they are getting some takers but all Non Type rated who are getting a very nice -400 course with British airways, and no doubt when they have a few hours under the belt they will just go work for someone who is prepared to pay a realistic salary.................

lots of excuse's about "you have to appreciate we are a start up, and things will gt better (yeah, right, please Mr.Tooth fairy) the guy who tells you about the salary scheme is so embarrasssed he can hardly look at you then mumbles about how, these scales are hard to decipher !!!

the bond is a joke though so if you want a type rating and 6 months being paid peanuts to then go elsewhere, come and take advantage of this very generous scheme..............you sign on and they deduct $1200 a month for 3 years end of story, so if you wait to pay day and leave they can chase you round a bit but I doubt they'll see any money back, even if you have to pay them the 1200 you can go work elsewhere and be considerably better off...........

Lots of very pleasant people at Jade, but the selection process is a joke and they will end up employing a lot of "bottom of the barrel" because no one who can do the job will work for this money................they actually passed some people on the sim ride who I personally wouldn't let loose on a push bike to the shops, let alone look after a shiny new -400..................still the first insurance claim is inevitable and that will obliterate the cost savings from the "Cheap" crews for the next 50 years...................

Final word, UNLESS YOUR DESPERATE, AND IN NEED OF A -400 RATING

FORGET IT !!!


As a so called pro pilot (????) refrain from smearing durt on other people,are you such a hot pilot:D

[Mudhut]

As a so called pro pilot (????) refrain from smearing durt on other people,are you such a hot pilot:D

Since when is telling the truth the same as smearing dirt?
In these forums it is usually not difficult to find fiction that even George Lucas would have been proud to put his name on, but in this case the true story is actually worse than what was believed.

The truth is out there. Can you handle it??????

[sizematters]

columbia747............................

Never heard of FIGJAM ..................????

[hellofrance]

there are still pilots in the world that like their job and love to fly a beautiful b744,that has nothing to do with vaseline.By the way other people more down to earth have to pay for their travel aswell when they go for an interview..........so time to come out of your ivory tower and get in the real world where there is competition and people that make 1500 usd per month for a living;)
If I understand you love to fly a beautifull B744 for 1500 USD, paying your travel, are you Cpt. ??:bored:

[alexb757]

there are still pilots in the world that like their job and love to fly a beautiful b744,that has nothing to do with vaseline.By the way other people more down to earth have to pay for their travel aswell when they go for an interview..........so time to come out of your ivory tower and get in the real world where there is competition and people that make 1500 usd per month for a living;)

And.....there are still pilots that have absolutely no idea of what the going rate to fly a "beautiful 744" is and will do almost anything to get their hands on one just to say they have flown one. Clearly, you have not been a professional pilot for very long and while your enthusiasm is commendable, selling your soul is not a trait most would be proud of! Heck, a manager a McDonalds earns more than $1500/month! Did YOU know that??!!:eek:

Sure there's competition out there but this has nothing to do with that. As you get older and get more experience you will come to realise that there is more to life than having wide-body time in your logbook. In the end, it's just a job, so why sell yourself short?

Perhaps it's you that needs to get into the "real" world?? :ok:

[sizematters]

Actually I think the poor chap is confused, or maybe his english is not very good, I think $1500 USD is a DAILY rate for freelance work.............................................either that or or he is a complete

Wayne Kerr....................................

[alexb757]

:eek: WOW!!!!

Has Jade seen this??:eek:

It's a while since I had a hamburger......................

[rduarte]

Let me go to Mc DO NOW !!!:E

[jetjockey696]

For the pilots who attended the Jade cargo recruitment interview, I search the topic no mention on the questions they ask at the interview.

I got a interview with them shortly, I am lucky that I am in asia. as I said no one mention the questions they ask at the interview. How about the sim ride (is it in the 777 as they mention or 737...747)??? what is the profile..

I looking for some new news about Jade..any about would helpful at this stage.

JJ696:ok:

[sizematters]

heres some info.................


unless your desperate.........................


don't bother...............................

[Mudhut]

Yepp, that seems about right.

I saw their F/O "contract" recently.
Suddenly the word "slave" springs to mind.
It seems per diems are paid from arriving at outstation until leaving outstation. Contract is on 50 hours guarantee, only that is flying hours, not block as in the rest of the world. On long lay-overs 1 or 2 days will be counted as days off.
Not impressed.......

[B737NG]

Just a small summary: Forgett it quickly, an embaressement to people who work for money. The pay is a joke, the selection is not realistic and the medical is typical Far-East style. Don´t waste the time and look somewhere else until the rates are up to market value and the lesson is learned when they opreate the fleet with ghost-crews (keeps the fleet young at low hours)

Fly safe and land happy

NG

[columbia747]

If I understand you love to fly a beautifull B744 for 1500 USD, paying your travel, are you Cpt. ??:bored:


Yep ,you were still looking for milk and pampers ;while I was flying

[jetjockey696]

Pls check your PM

JJ696

[columbia747]

Actually I think the poor chap is confused, or maybe his english is not very good, I think $1500 USD is a DAILY rate for freelance work.............................................either that or or he is a complete

Wayne Kerr....................................

dear gremlin,

ever thought of the idea that maybe my proper english is better than your own language ,you're trying to name english ?

[jetjockey696]

Hi Guys

Has anyone come back from Jade interview recently. Who has any new info. Who wants to share there experience good or BAD..:ugh:

What's the whole thing like???

JJ696

[AAIGUY]

For the pilots who attended the Jade cargo recruitment interview, I search the topic no mention on the questions they ask at the interview.
I got a interview with them shortly, I am lucky that I am in asia. as I said no one mention the questions they ask at the interview. How about the sim ride (is it in the 777 as they mention or 737...747)??? what is the profile..
I looking for some new news about Jade..any about would helpful at this stage.
JJ696:ok:


There is no actual interview per sei. It is a serious of medical, english , and phyciatric tests. Then a sim in a B737. Standard profile.

After that a small briefing about pay (vaguely) and benefits.. then you realise it has all been a waste of time and a joke.

[jetjockey696]

Thanks AAIGuy

I guess all these tests, is to prepare you for the pay and conditions..then.

jj696

[rwethereyet]

Hello JJ696,

I received your pm but figured that i might as well shed some light on the "Jaded Cargo" operations.....
I did go to the interview/screening process back in Feb and did pass the whole thing including the Chinese medical:D . I am currently on a different contract:O (way better than Jade) in a different part of the world and the way I looK at it, unless you are hopelessly in need of a job, forget about even attending that interview:= .....I did a posting a few pages back about the T's& C's they proposed at the time and from what I have read lately, those have gone down considerably:( ......and it is not surprising that they are not finding people...at least properly qualified people!
The guy who sat in with me for the sim was supposedly a 737 "captain" and was filling in as an F/O since there was no F/O available but I wouldn't even let this guy fly a 737 as an F/O let alone let him loose on a brand new 744!!! I am a wide body aircraft training/check captain and if they are basing themselves on the few candidates that I've seen of which quite a few have no wide body experience (not to mention the parker pen hours:suspect: !!) and no international experience then they will be in for a big surprise!!!:ooh: .
Now, to finally answer your pm about the screening process, the first day will be a DLR multiple choice test (personality test) of about 100 questions then an English test of 90 questions in 30 minutes(if English is your mother tongue, then this is a no brainer),and after all that, the 2 German Psychologists briefly interview you to let you know if you have passed the first phase.
If you pass that, then you have the long medical the second day which is about a 2 hour drive to Beijing University Hospital/clinic....not a bad setup and surprisingly very clean. It's a very thorough physical but if you don't have any restrictions or medical conditions and are in relatively good health, then it should not be a problem.
Once that is finished:rolleyes: (you get most of the results the same day) you go for the sim evaluation(on a 737NG) the next day (times may vary depending on the number of candidates) and it is very straight forward....standard noise abatement take off following a sid on raw data, then climbing to 5000 feet for step turns (a 360 but if you do well, the guy will stop you after 180 degrees and just go the other way then roll out).You're given a heading to a VOR ( mine was in Frankfurt) and told to enter the hold....I just mentioned the type of entry, EFC,entry speed and he said fine and cleared me for raw data VOR approach 25R (if I remember right) with a missed approach at minimum....engine failure on the go around with vectors back for a raw data single engine ILS 25L with full stop landing. a bit of work involved but pretty standard stuff..... had to do this single pilot most of the time since the monkey next to me was f:mad: useless.....and I wonder how he managed to get through the interview since his English was poor and unreadable at best.....anyways.....
And finally on the last day, having passed all that, the chief pilot/director flt ops tells you about the poor terms and conditions.....but he puts such a positive spin on it that this guy could sell sand to the Arabs. Then you wake up.:}
I figured that with Lufthansa Cargo involved it would be a serious operation but boy was I way off the mark.
Hope that this answers your question(s) and like the guys before said,unless you are short of becomimg homeless or flightless, give it a big miss.....
Thats my two cents and a nickels worth....
Cheers,
Rwethereyet:cool:

[jetjockey696]

Rwethereyet

Thanks for the information you supplied, very comprehensive. I guess some of the airline companies around the world "rnotthereyet" ;) .

Thanks again:ok:

JJ696

[figleaf]

Great Wall 744 terms are up to 60,000rmb Capt, plus500rmb hr up to 70 hrs, 900rmb after, annual increments and profit share prob, medical and dental benefits, 2500rmb for staff travel, 12250rmb housing, education allowance etc etc and based in Shanghai. Now that could be fun!

It should make Jade realise that its terms and conditions are way out of line. any company employing 747 capts should be in the region of $12000us per month plus benefits with F/O's on a commensurate deal. They will lose their trained crews after a very short period if they do not review their contract, it will be very attractive for them to move up the road to Shanghai......

[rwethereyet]

Anybody out there with info as how to apply to this outfit or do they just take guys from SIN Cargo!? I read up about them and they seem much more serious than Jade....
A website or any other info would be greatly appreciated....:confused:
Thanks, Cheers
RWTY:)

[Fly747]

They've got a full page ad in this week's Flight mag.
Request app form from:
[email protected]

[rwethereyet]

Thanks Fly747:ok:

RWTY

[afjose]

:cool: :cool: $8000 US Dollars a month for Captains...................provided your type rated, less $1200 a month if not type rated so a non type rated Captain will bank $6,800 US Dollars, No loss of Licence, No medical insurance, no provident/ pension fund....................this is based on flying 50 hours a month (Flying hours not credit hours)

The way they explain the salary is this:

Base Salary is $5,500 a month but they GUARENTEE to pay you for 50 hour at $50/hour hence you will get $8000 as a CAPTAIN, but they expect you to fly 80 hours hence the additional 30 hours @ $50/hour to make it $9,500......................of course there is not a hope in Hell you'll fly 80 hours a month, you'll maybe do 50 as they will be busy training for at least two years

Days off.........Guarenteed 3 consecutive days a month, but 9 days off total, maybe 2 in Amsterdam, I in somewhere else and a couple of blocks of 2 or 3 in Shenzen......................

Per Diem...........$3 us dollars an hour............BUT............from the time you LAND at the destination till the time you LEAVE the destination, after all they are paying you $50/hour flight pay, why do you need any more???


This whole offer is a joke. they are getting some takers but all Non Type rated who are getting a very nice -400 course with British airways, and no doubt when they have a few hours under the belt they will just go work for someone who is prepared to pay a realistic salary.................

lots of excuse's about "you have to appreciate we are a start up, and things will gt better (yeah, right, please Mr.Tooth fairy) the guy who tells you about the salary scheme is so embarrasssed he can hardly look at you then mumbles about how, these scales are hard to decipher !!!

the bond is a joke though so if you want a type rating and 6 months being paid peanuts to then go elsewhere, come and take advantage of this very generous scheme..............you sign on and they deduct $1200 a month for 3 years end of story, so if you wait to pay day and leave they can chase you round a bit but I doubt they'll see any money back, even if you have to pay them the 1200 you can go work elsewhere and be considerably better off...........

Lots of very pleasant people at Jade, but the selection process is a joke and they will end up employing a lot of "bottom of the barrel" because no one who can do the job will work for this money................they actually passed some people on the sim ride who I personally wouldn't let loose on a push bike to the shops, let alone look after a shiny new -400..................still the first insurance claim is inevitable and that will obliterate the cost savings from the "Cheap" crews for the next 50 years...................

Final word, UNLESS YOUR DESPERATE, AND IN NEED OF A -400 RATING

FORGET IT !!!