A380- MELBOURNE MONDAY 14th [Archive]

ys120fz

12th Nov 2005, 08:43

I agree Buster, there will be a first time only once, but having to mix with hundreds of thousands of yobbos to achiev e that is not for me.

Besides, I'm on the other side of the world.

I recall I saw the Concorde on its first ever landing into Australia. I was about 100 metres wide of the threshold of RW11 in Darwin, back in about '71 or '72, camera in hand. Pity the big blow job of Christmas '74 took all the pics with it, or I could post a few.

There were only two of us watching that day.

If I was there and I could guarantee no crowds, then I'd be watching for sure.

Mr.Buzzy

12th Nov 2005, 09:10

Friends don't let their friends fly Airbus.

bbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzz

And some users have short memories!!!

Woomera

Buster Hyman

12th Nov 2005, 11:51

Personally, I'll be working on the complete opposite side of town, so I won't be there, but I wouldn't mind watching from under the flightpath...whichever it is. No crowds (in theory) and the closest that any punter without an ASIC will get!

John Eacott

12th Nov 2005, 22:34

It looks as if they're planning a 17 arrival: the public viewing park has been worked on for the past few days (on the Sunbury Road) with the adjacent paddock mown and prepared for car parking. Why, they've even put in a port-a-loo (single!), so huge crowds are likely ;) :p

We're planning on putting a helicopter up for photography, no problem from ATC, but Airport Management want to restrict the helicopter numbers to one. Since when did they control the airspace, I wonder :rolleyes:

Buster Hyman

13th Nov 2005, 01:40

Well, I'd recommend Somerton Rd then. Not as low, but potentially not as crowded...then again, it is a work day, could they be overestimating the interest?:confused:

Calligula

13th Nov 2005, 03:31

One upside to the LH EBA getting up is that at least the A380 flying cannot be scabbed to the lowest bidder whilst the CA is stil extant.

Sorry to the EK, JQ and other guys who have been attempting to do backdoor deals with Oldmeadow.

Look here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=198077&perpage=20&pagenumber=3) for the latest PPRuNe EBA!!! :ugh:

Woomera

ACMS

13th Nov 2005, 06:19

Geez I'd love to see the fat ugly thing try to land on Rwy 17.

Pssst It's Rwy 16 at Mel fellas

Although I'm sure Essendon would love a big fat new McDonald parked out the front of the terminal. The kids would love to play in it I'm sure.

If it's not Boeing.................

OZcabincrew

13th Nov 2005, 06:38

On the news they said it is going to be transformed into the Qantas colours for Qantas' aerial photography over Sydney harbour. Are they honestly repainting it in the red and white for the photos? Wow! I look forward to seeing it!

Oz

Keg

13th Nov 2005, 06:43

I borrowed this off Qrewroom (thanks Justin! :ok: )

I won't leave it up forever as it'll blow the band width but you get the idea.

http://members.iinet.net.au/~justinmadden/380QF.jpg

Woomera

13th Nov 2005, 06:51

Keg

Thanks for the thought re bandwidth, but it will be ok for a while.:ok:

Buster Hyman

13th Nov 2005, 07:02

Aww, and I thought Geoff & Marge's photo would be emblazened on the tail!

I hope they don't go for that overkill bold QANTAS in production, especially with the oversized logo on the cowlings! Just like Pan Am's last livery!:yuk:

Dogimed

13th Nov 2005, 08:45

Hey SOF, must you pervade the image of all pilots being TOSSERS.

No need for that response.

Dog

Bolty McBolt

13th Nov 2005, 09:38

Hey Dog..
And your point is ?????

A380, Ugliest aircraft in the sky, Reminds me of a Bumble bee aerodynamically impossible to fly but yet it does...

I Love This Show

13th Nov 2005, 09:49

...They didn't make it so you could like it...

Anyone know what time it leaves SY?

100% N1

13th Nov 2005, 10:13

soldier of fortune- How long ago was it that you lost your passion for your job?

Bolty McBolt

13th Nov 2005, 18:13

I Love this show....

Perhaps the french didnt make the 380 so i would like it.. but if I paid close to $500 million AUD I would expect my concubine to look good especially if the RIDE only offered 70 extra seats compared to the old tart on offer, cost $250 million .
Remember the old tart is a given with no over heads with known training, parts, loading, configs etc

380 cannot do the the required Melb to LAX with cargo unless pax resticted to config of 474 ( same as SQ) which is far from original QF requirement of 540.

Looks like our marketing driven board have been sold a white elephant by another marketing driven company.
Where is the product??? Emperors new cloths perhaps...History will tell the tale

Extra 60-70 seats for a whole round of new spares, training, trouble shooting, service difficulties, gremlins etc etc for almost double the price.....I know where the blame will lay if it doesn't succeed..with the board..NOT.
So you will have to excuse me if i do not have the same enthusiasm as the the SPOTTERS in this forum

ps old tart = queen of the sky..747-400er

Sunfish

13th Nov 2005, 19:23

Bolty, its the cost per seat mile that is driving the transaction, not the number of seats.

Buster Hyman

13th Nov 2005, 20:04

380 cannot do the the required Melb to LAX
I thought that was what the B744ER was for? Oh well, if they chose the 380 (the plane not the car) for this sector & it doesn't "suit the route", then I guess they can still be proud that they didn't order the MD11.:rolleyes:

MarkD

13th Nov 2005, 21:14

if bolty thinks a 380 is ugly I assume he's never seen a Guppy (or a SuperGuppy, or Airbus' Beluga)

John Eacott

14th Nov 2005, 01:28

Fair old size, that thing: coming over the piano keys I thought that we'd have no problems keeping up with it, but size is deceptive, and we were pushed to catch up;) Never seen so many spectators, every approach road was full of parked cars: easily 3000 around the airport :eek:

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Ski/A380.jpg

maxgrad

14th Nov 2005, 01:35

Nice pic John
Glad I don't live in Sunbury any more, (going past that mob to work would be a right bugger:} )

ACMS

14th Nov 2005, 01:54

Grass looks nice and the concrete too.

Shame about the fat ugly duckling in the picture.

If it ain't Boeing..............

ya gotta laugh hey, it can't do what it was designed for????????????? WHAT A SURPRISE.

Big white fat elephant.

And the cockpit looks crap too.

MarkD

14th Nov 2005, 01:58

Anyone on the ground at SYD or BNE: how has the 380 seemed so far in manoeuvering around taxiways and onto stands etc?

edited:

got curious about the range point - these are the published ranges:
airbus.com A380-800 range with max pax 15,000km
boeing.com B744ER maximum range 14,205km ("typical city pairs Melbourne-Los Angeles")

OZBUSDRIVER

14th Nov 2005, 02:54

What part of the apron is the 380 parked at? Thinking of taking the kids over to see it.

Bolty McBolt

14th Nov 2005, 03:14

Mark D
From my info on 380 range. Yes it has longer range but this suffers heavily depending on pay load.(dont know full details) This is why the QF config was changed from 540 seats to 474 (same as SQ)
If not for the seating config change the 380 would not be able to complete MEL - LAX fully loaded.
The 747-400ER can be filled to the gunnels and does it every day.
Your manouvering question..When the 380 is in LAX there are many adjacent taxiways which need to be closed to all other aircraft due to wing tip clearances....but there are plans to fix

SUNFISH..
I understand the cost per seat mile but my point is..
If you are only going to purchase 6-8 of these 380 aircraft (not 20)at almost double the price of the nearest competitor plus retool, retrain, reconfigure terminals, etc etc the cost of seat per mile is going to have to be substantially lower to recoup the out lay for this aircraft.
747 operating cost is a given..not a promise
and perhaps you have not seen the drama that surrounds a reschedule of an aircraft and equipment change. eg a 747 with a 380 or vice versa. Send one set of tech crew home then call others in, more or less flight attendants required. Different catering, new trucks required for upperdeck loading etc.
All this costs money and is ongoing, Cuts into your cost per seat mile.

Only time will tell and shiney new aircraft keep the spotters happy.
:yuk:

Uncommon Sense

14th Nov 2005, 04:52

Latest Picture:

http://images.animationfactory.com/imagedir/animations/animals/elephants/pink_elephant_flying/pink_elephant_flying_lg_wht__ST.gif

Sunfish

14th Nov 2005, 05:23

Bolty, I'm sure that somewhere, in one of the airlines purchasing this beast, there is a sane accountant who has done the necessary cashflow and internal rate of return calculations that show a better return then the Boeing 747.

Remember that the A380 is only going to get cheaper, in terms of seat mile costs, as the fuselage is stretched, the weights increased, more power from the engines etc. It's at the start of its development cycle. I suspect that the 747 is very near the end of its cycle.

Every now and then someone in the industry makes a quantum leap in performance. I'm not sure that the A380 is a qantum leap. I'm hoping the dreamliner is becasue I don't like the idea of arriving anywhere with 474 of my closest companions.

John Eacott

14th Nov 2005, 05:53

A few more shots from this afternoon:

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Ski/A380%202%20copy.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Ski/A380%203.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Ski/A380%204.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Ski/A380%205%20copy.jpg

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Ski/A380%206.jpg

Gone Sailing

14th Nov 2005, 07:54

Hey,

Did anyone see the speed tape on the underside of the wings, along the leading edges ?

The Librarian

14th Nov 2005, 09:18

Bolty said
380 cannot do the the required Melb to LAX

Come on mate, have a think about what you are writing before you start tapping away on your keyboard. If the aircraft can't do MEL-LAX how on earth is it going to manage the far more restrictive sector of LAX-MEL. Take off 300 pax to fit on the 25 tonnes plus of extra fuel needed.

Also the list price for the A380 is currently US$292m (AUS$400m) compared to the 400ER list price is US$236.5 (AUS$324m). Hardly double the cost.

Buster Hyman

14th Nov 2005, 09:21

Great photos JE! Thanks for posting them!:ok:

Ron & Edna Johns

14th Nov 2005, 09:34

Hey, anyone know what sort of approach they got onto rwy 34 at MEL today? Did ATC hit them with the NAREL STAR, rwy 34 with the visual transition? ;) Or did the ATC'ers have a little pity and instead set them up at about a 10nm final? It'd be kind of interesting/entertaining to see something that massive going over EN at 2500' and then pitching down to pick up the 34 profile!

Soulman

14th Nov 2005, 13:44

Ron & Edna,

Yes, it was the NAREL STAR for 34 with (what I think) were radar vectors for a 12nm final (could have been the 34 VOR - can't remember this late at night!).

We were all praying for the right base over EN - but not to be...

Was surprised to say the least - thought it would have been longer. Kinda reminded me of a fat kid who'd ate too many pies. Certainly had some great wing flex on touchdown.

One things for sure - the French love their flaps...

Mr McGoo

15th Nov 2005, 06:06

Seat cost in simple terms is operating cost divided number of seats. Operating costs are fairly static. Therefore if the original number crunching was based on 540 seats, but now it can only do MEL/LAX with 470 seats, then the seat cost will have increased by about 540/470 (= 15%) from the original projections. Only the bean counters will know if this is still cheaper than the B744. If QF management were smart they would have put performance penalty clauses in the contract so that if the Dugong (sorry A380) fails to meet the Airbus marketing hype, they will get suitably recompensed.

Ron & Edna Johns

15th Nov 2005, 06:42

We really don't know EXACTLY why QF is dropping it to 470 seats. A lot of the stuff bandied around here may well be just speculation and rumour. At the end of the day, if the reason is a performance one then, yes, there may well be penalties payable by Airbus. OTOH, if QF is doing it purely to match a competitor's product (i.e. not wanting to appear cramped and tight vs the SQ product) then Airbus ain't gonna be liable for that.

In the end it's all about balancing an airline's product (P/J/Y and what you get in each), perceived value (what people are prepared to pay for that product), costs and overall yield. And obviously we want to maximize that yield. If you increase the number of J-class sets, for example, yes, less seats overall but you are charging more per J-class seat and hence may actually be increasing yield overall. Perhaps that's going to occur at the 470-seat level?

We really don't know - this sort of info is tightly guarded within the inner sanctums. God forbid should a mere pilot learn the truth....

En-Rooter

15th Nov 2005, 07:27

It twas the plenty arrival (instrument procedures, VOR approach) as requested by the crew.

And from another thread the aircraft was not prevented from doing a fly by of the city, they were simply advised that aircraft were being delayed after their arrival and the crew of the airbus decided not to delay anybody else further.

So MJ, ring 3AW back up and tell them that ATC DIDNOT prevent a city circuit due noise.

Or send an apology to me personally at: [email protected]

Woomera

15th Nov 2005, 09:25

Calligula

You are trying my patience!!!

Don't push your luck too far!!!

:mad: :mad:

Woomera

P.S. ACMS's waste of band width was the final straw. Enjoy your week of rest and relaxation!!!
:ok:

BHMvictim

15th Nov 2005, 10:25

High speed tape on the wings, (also on the knee cap fairings above the engines and at various other places all over the structure) most likeley secure wiring to sensors used for testing. Obvious from the fact that it looks quite worn (ie...been there a long time) when u see it close up.

Philthy

20th Nov 2005, 22:26

Couple of photos of the aircraft departing here: www.airwaysmuseum.com (http://www.airwaysmuseum.com)

PLUS: This Saturday (26 Nov) is the Airways Museum Open Day - last chance to see the photographic exhibition of the Melbourne Airport runway and terminal works for the A380.

Philthy