Heli Advertising

[chopper1]

What do you all think of helicopter advertising - and subsequently reduce operationg cost? Have a look at our marketing program (by the way we are not an operator) on our website

Wouldnt you agree that such a program creates a healthier industry, more profitable operators, more PAID jobs for pilots and raise the standards (or reduce accidents)?

[Pac Rotors]

I just looked all through your site and not sure how you come to the conclusion that it helps improve the industry or the safety. All you are doing is selling seats on joyflights and advertising on the side of helicopters.

If anything the mockups of the signage on the side of them looks tacky. Look forward to your response.

[chopper1]

well..i suggest you look again!!! alternatively...if you like we could send you our marketing concept?!?!

best regards from "downunder"

[RW-1]

Just don't try heli banner towing, it's murder ont he tail rotor :)

[leading edge]

I have to agree with Pac Rotors. I fail to see how you are promoting or improving safety in any way.

The signs look terrible and cheap, at least paint a whole helicopter, it may be more expensive but you will attract higher calibre customers who have the dollars to do things properly.

If I were an operator, I would not let you put any signs on my helicopter, neither would I rent it to you at cheap rates for scenic flights. I would do it all myself and cut you out of the picture.

You have no capital investement or risk when compared to a real operator, you require no maintenance infrastructure and you employ no pilots or engineers. You have no skills and add nothing to the industry.

You are just another one who is trying to scam money from an industry which is already hard up against it trying to make a dollar.

You are in fact a leach on the real helicopter industry and your idea isn't even original. There is another one in Melbourne also trying the same scamming tactics, Helitours I think they are called.

Go and plague another industry with your shonkey tactics and leave ours to real operators who invest real money in people, training and equipment.

[John Eacott]

I'd have to agree with Leading Edge, I've got a particular down on third party wannabees, especially the outfit in Melbourne who are a drain on the industry. The operator(s) who support them are equally foolish, allowing it to happen. One of these fringe dwellers, who became a real pain some 10 years ago, caused all sorts of problems for the industry at large, and CASA was totally ineffective in dealing with him.

As non holders of AOC's the whole set up is often legally doubtful, but it's so much easier for CASA to chase up operators/pilots who have exceeded their duty times by 15 minutes http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

And as for aerial banner towing, we do it all the time. Tail rotor is never the problem, but a close inspection of the MGB mounts (and spike in the 206) is often called for, the drag from the larger flags is quite extreme. I flew the largest flag ever under a 117 a couple of years ago, and 35 knots was flat out!

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/gallery/aerialcrane/bk117_gp_flag.jpg

[chopper1]

We have noticed the various opinions - which proves to us again that some "downunder" operators are JUST too scared to even think about alternative marketing ideas.

Perhaps they will rely forever on "misleading" enthusiastic men and women to take up flying helicopters as a career....take their money....promise them the world...and then leave em out in the cold!! Or even worse...knowingly hire out machines which have defects...but due to financial pressure of the owners/operators are not grounded. Ethics?...Gentlemen! We have seen it all...

Chopper1 is merely trying to assist existing and genuine operators to improve helicopter flying as a more affordable form of transport.....help to reduce the costs via getting businesses involved in advertising (i.e. pay the lease costs of machines). We are not taking a cent away from your businesses but are interested that you make more profit!!

If our marketing concept will reduce operating costs....then operators are able to reduce flying costs....make a decent profit....PAY the pilots and instructors a decent wage...train em properly instead of having them clean the hangar 9 times a week...(or even worse do the shopping for the wife...or become the family babysitter).

We have received such comments not only from from low hour pilots but instructors including a Chief Pilot!!

P.S. We researched our idea for more than 2 years....and probably spent more $$ than any of you spends in a lifetime finding solutions to improve ethics and viability in this industry...

[helidrvr]

While I fail to see all the lofty benefits (safety??) suggested by chopper1, the idea of stragec alliances is fundamentally sound.

The old theory of "I'll scratch your back, if you'll scratch mine" is well tested, but there has to be some natural synergy between the advertizer and the operator. In most cases this probably amounts to a (partial) barter deal. It's done in ENG all the time.



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You are welcome to visit HELIDRVR here (http://www.helidrvr.homestead.com)

[SPS]

DON'T make another one of those TV adverts
where the squirrel lands making the sound of a B47, the pilot and the cop talk in low voices with no headsets or doors and then walk away after turning the ignition off.
The final shot being back toward the Heli (which has changed into a Hughes 500) to show that the rotors stopped in 7 seconds on their own.... :)

[HeloTeacher]

From what I saw, the pictures looked like just computer graphics superimposed on the helo.

While I believe small operaters can gain from association with bigger names, pure advertising is a risky and political business. Few companies really want to be associated with the potential impact of an accident, and many jobs that helos perform don't lend themselves to advertising.

A dedicated paint scheme for a pure sightseeing machine may work, but I don't really think it will pay a significant portion of the overall cost of doing business.

[leading edge]

Chopper 1

I am guessing, because you have not explained how you do business,your website is not specific and I can't be bothered to contact you because I have no interest in your business idea.

You presumably charge your "advertisers" a fee for advertising on the aircraft. Then you will probably pay a portion of that money back to the operator who will suddenly and miraculously pay all of their staff more money!!!

Magically, they can then reduce their charges because of the advertising revenue. You then market their reduced rates to customers who use the helicopter or sell scenic flights. Why though would they need your company? Why not do it directly with the advertiser?

Many clients who charter helicopters want the aircraft to be as anonymous as possible and do not want to fly in an aircraft covered with small ads looking like the Trading Post (no offence intended to the Trading Post)

If I was an operator, I would go direct to a company and deal with them for advertising, Rescue helicopters do it all the time.

The difference is that Rescue aircraft frequently make the news and so give the advertiser good exposure. They even have naming rights which is what they are really looking for during prime time news coverage.

I belive that you may find it hard to sell multiple small adverts on a small helicopter which is never going to get significant media exposure. Where will you put the ads on a Robinson or a Bell 47 or a 300???

Your website shows an airline logo on the cowling of a Bell 206. Is this for real or is it a mock up? I do not know of any airline who would allow their logo on a
Bell 206 when they have no operational control or audit authority.

Most airlines do not like helicopters because they believe mistakenly that the only exposure that they will get is when it crashes. If a helicopter wears an airline logo and then has an accident, it will de facto become the xxx airline helicopter in the media.

If a rescue helicopter crashes during an attempt to save life, it automatically generates some public sympathy although any accident of course generates some bad press.

If I were company x wanting you to put my logo on the side of a helicopter, what assurances would I have that you had carried out an operations and safety audit to make sure that I will not be risking my company's reputation? What qualifications do you or your company have to carry out such an audit?

You claim that you will improve safety, how?

One final question, where did you do your 2 years research? We are all fascinated to know the name of the fairy who helped you with this idea.

[John Eacott]

Chopper 1,

Since I don't hide behind a cloak of anonymity, my credentials are out in the open for anyone to peruse. After 36 years flying, and 16 years of operating my own business with my own AOC and as a f/w and r/w Chief Pilot, I still wouldn't support your proposal. You want to do what I've done (yes, I carry very effective advertising on some aircraft, and have developed it quite successfully over the years) without any of the financial exposure? Give me a good reason why I, or any other operator who has invested $millions of his own money, should support you, who is touting an idea that any one of us could, and often does, manage by ourselves.

Why should we also put our AOC's on the line for you, and our insurance, etc.? I got your spam e mail a couple of weeks ago, and am less than impressed by your proposal. Thanks, but no thanks.

[Qualityman]

Have to agree with the majority here, Chopper1.

How on earth can you claim to improve safety by advertising on helicopters? Does your company hold an AOC or equivalent? Do you get involved in the Maintenance of the aircraft in any way, shape or form? Do you carry out any initial or recurrent training of the line pilots? Do you carry out Quality Audits on any of the Maintenance or Operations areas?

If the answer is no to ANY of the above questions, you cannot possibly have any affect on safety!

By the way, if you try using Adobe Photoshop 5.0 or above you'll be able to get the logos to look like they really are on the aircraft.
Very shoddy workmanship. If you can't get your own advertising to look good, how do you expect to drag in us suckers to help propogate your totally unnecessary and unbeleivable scam!

[chopper1]

Again...our research is being confirmed.
As one of the largest and most successful operator in australia recently pointed out to us;

"We know what it is like to be targeted....hell we had to get a restraint order over another helicopter operator after he came into our establishment to punch (name witheld) for " taking so much business off him. Your concept is not new to us but we're always too swamped with running our own show, glad we have companies like yours working out the details. Let us know when your ready."

Chopper1 now wonders if it wouldn't be smarter for some of the "knockers" in here to forward some positive critisism and an open mind to work together on a concept that enjoys increasing popularity with our customers (advertisers)and some of the smarter and marketing minded operators.

We are unchallenged experts when it comes to Internet marketing. With our huge web exposure (av. 5000 individuals per week)and the hundreds of inquiries we receive on a daily basis - WE ARE HERE TO STAY! like it or not!

[Qualityman]

O.k. that's fine.
I accept that your Internet Marketing strategies probably do work in Australia and other locations. Wouldn't like to try it in the U.K. though as our operating costs greatly outweigh most other countries, There are too many airspace / operating retrictions (JAR-OPS!) and British weather conditions are typically bad and can have a great affect on the total number of hours flown each year, VFR or IFR!.

With these factors in mind I don't beleive that your projections would work.

I think that the general question from the posts above is, how can you possibly uphold your claim to increase Safety and improve working conditions for pilots, when you are unable to demonstrate any knowledge of the operation of the aircraft or the procedures involved in acheiving said results?

Just providing a source of added income would not make any helicopter any safer. I'm sure we all hope that the aircraft are as safe as possible before they get involved in projects such as yours.

[Qualityman]

Oh and by the way,

I'd hardly say you were "unchallenged experts" with regards to Internet Marketing.

Every body here has challenged you so far and almost all have had some comment to make about the poor quality of your digitally enhanced images!

[paco]

And Internet Marketing doesn't work anyway......

[helidrvr]

Now I would definitely not agree with the last comment. Internet marketing works very well indeed, IF done professionally. I spent over a year studying the workings of e-commerce and believe me, the possibilities are endless. A friend of mine wrote this marvellous commentary:

The Internet is in many respects is very similar to what was unfolding out west between 1865...and 1885. And every bit as exciting!

Every element that made the opening of the western territories such a dynamic time in our history has a counterpart in the online phenomenon now unfolding before us. The plot is similar. And if you look closely, the characters involved are startlingly alike.

There was the visionary...
Who went out west, looked around and quickly realized that there were empires to be built. There was the land baron...
Who went west with the bankroll that he'd made back east, seeking to buy up & tie up all the resources.
And the shopkeepers and blacksmiths...
Who moved their businesses out west, in order to service the boom towns springing up everywhere.
There was the immigrant farmer...
Willing to sacrifice everything to own his own land.
And the 49'er...
Convinced he's just one more day's dig away from striking it rich.
There was the shyster...
In new territory looking for new ways to make a fast buck.
And the bandit, the gunslinger,and the town marshall...

Just look closely, and you'll see that each has his online counterpart.

Then, as online is today, it was a time of new beginnings...
For many, the magnetic pull of the west must have been the chance to start over...
or to create something new...
in a place that wasn't so hemmed in. It was a place where folks could put their own spin on things. Like online today, the west was a magnet to creative and often eccentric people. And just like online today, being unique was rewarded, instead of discouraged.

There was the broad sweep of it all...
Where there were vast chunks of untamed, unclaimed land. Land just waiting to be developed into whatever the new owners had the vision and determination to mold it into. Out there, the visionary could paint in bold, colorful strokes...with as big a brush as he had the ability to wield.

Then, as now, the timing was critical...
The Internet is very much in it's infancy. And just like the Wild West, the rules are being made as we go along. But trends and patterns are developing. Those who choose to invest the time in learning the rules and studying the emerging trends, can get out in front of them and buy property at $1 an acre. Property that will soon be worth $100 an acre.

Then, as now, money helped...but it's wasn't the absolute bottom line. Online, the make-or-break issue is not the size of your bankroll...but the quality of your commitment...and the creativity that you apply to your challenges.

Then, as now, not everyone struck it rich...
Many a dreamer was lured out west by the get-rich-quick stories they'd heard. "Thar's gold in them thar hills!" Most of them rushed out west without any survival skills...or work ethic...and were never heard of again. Those who made it back home, often did so as broken men.

History can teach some valuable lessons. And one of the most important ones lies in the fact that the real window of opportunity in the west lasted only a few brief years. If you waited too long to stake your claim, the best land was gone; and you were faced with the same problems that you went west to escape. Just like today...there were no guarantees...only opportunities.

Then, as now...
If you caught the vision...and if you could hold that vision...you could carve an empire. One that would radically alter your family's available options for generations to come. The same magnitude of opportunity exists today.


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You are welcome to visit HELIDRVR here (http://www.helidrvr.homestead.com)

[This message has been edited by helidrvr (edited 06 February 2001).]

[chopper1]

First, the quality of graphic design on websites have generally very little to do with how well a website works. Its a matter of taste and the opinions are greatly divided even in our own organisation! Its all about the technical knowhow of how the web works and how to get traffic to a site!

Second our comments re. safety stem from the following thoughts and have been confirmed by our advisors which are seasoned and highly qualified helicopter pilots and indeed are in CASA's interest(including my own experiences...although only holding a PPL)

If a heli business is operating with a healthy profit, pilots will be trained better and maintenance of the machines will improve! = better safety record!

[Qualityman]

And so you help to emphasise my point once again!

Any reputable Helicopter Operator will take all necessary steps to ensure that all their aircraft are maintained to the required standards , and that their pilots have all relevant qualifications and recurrent training, regardless of the monies available.

If injecting more money into the Maintenance and Training Programmes suddenly improves safety, surely that should raise questions with regards to the effectiveness of the original systems.

My comments are in no way intended to imply that the operators who do become involved with your Marketing Strategies are providing "unsafe" or "unacceptable" levels of service (whether to aircraft or crew). I am sure that they, as we all do , continuously strive to maintain a safe, reliable, and more importantly, reputable Operation.

In my experience extra profit being available usually results in the complete Operation being expanded in some way, i.e. more aircraft, more crew, new equipment.

You cannot buy safety or quality of service, it has to be acheived.

[chopper1]

qualityman! unfortunately in many cases machines are often NOT maintained as they should. We have first hand reports from pilots (NOT operators of course) which have forwarded reports to us re: "cheating" on regular maintenance or in two cases regularly go way over the hours on the blades.

We have also received reports that careers were short lived due to pilots insisting and challenging many fine and "highly ethical operators", to strictly comply with required maintenance!

But let us make it very clear here...we have no intention to establish a private CASA!
But simply assist genuine operators in their marketing efforts.

And not suprisingly we have, as mentioned previously, received a number of encouraging and very helpful messages from open-minded operators not only from Australia but from all over the world.

We still look forward and indeed invite all forum participants to come forward with positive critisism and suggestions! Its all about lateral thinking Gentlemen! :-)

[SPS]

Your initial question -
"What do you all think of helicopter advertising"

I think you have the reply.

If you are convinced you are right then stick with it and confound all. Post your success details on pprune in 12 months time.

[kissmysquirrel]

Agree with SPS and quality mans commnts

[Thomas coupling]

Helidrvr: Wow! someone lit your blue touch paper, regarding internet marketing. Am I right in assuming you have a vested interest in this area? I have learned that over 95% of internet marketing is ineffectual! Can you comment on this. Reading your website (a very professional one I must add), leads me to a section where you are promoting what we in the UK would describe as pyramid selling. Does this carry with it a more successful track record across the water than it would here? It strikes me that everyone is into it in one form or another? I hope it works for you but I do admit to the whole subject leaving me with a bad taste, because of the bad press that goes with it... Good luck with your cookiecutter.....

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Thermal runaway.

[Cyclic Hotline]

Although this concept would never appeal to me personally, there are very similar ideas in North America, utilising cars for advertising. Essentially you get the use of a car for free, or at a reduced lease rate, if you meet the eligibility criteria; which includes how often, and where you drive.

It is not unrealistic to consider that some private owners might want to defray the cost of operating their helicopter by participating in this scheme.

However, it was noted earlier, that some of this might be directed at Operators who are exceeding life limits or operating limitations. In my experience, Operators who work in this manner, rarely change their practices, and the last thing any Advertiser wants, is their name plastered all over the TV or news on the side of a smouldering wreck!

[Qualityman]

Chopper1,

Don't get me wrong, I don't intend to totally dismiss your strategies, but as I have already stated, I do not believe your concept would work in the U.K.

I admire your your faith in your product and do wish you the best of luck with it.

My main point is with regards to your statement about improving safety and pilots conditions.

If as you say not all aircraft are maintained properly, and pilots that have queried this have been penalised for doing so, then what makes you believe that Operators who are so Irresponsible and unscrupulous already are suddenly going to have a change of heart and invest their newly found profits into areas they don't care about.

I don't know of one single pilot who would fly in an aircraft they didn't have absolute faith in. Everyone I know would not hesitate to ground an aircraft if they suspected any defects that could affect the safety of the aircraft, their passengers and themselves.

[helidrvr]

Thomas Coupling:

First of all, I thought that my post was very clear about the similarity between the old west and the internet, INCLUDING the fact that 95% of the greenhorns come back disillusioned by the experience. This by the way is just as true for franchises, insurance agencies or any other form of new business startup.

Quote:
>> Then, as now, not everyone struck it rich... Many a dreamer was lured out west by the get-rich-quick stories they'd heard. "Thar's gold in them thar hills!" Most of them rushed out west without any survival skills...or work ethic...and were never heard of again. Those who made it back home, often did so as broken men. <<

What you found on my website - a link to the Cookie Cutter Course - is anything BUT a pyramid scheme. You either don't know what a pyramid scheme is or you didn't check the Cookie Cutter. So let me explain:

1. A pyramid scheme can be defined as a promotion where everybody is looking to convince someone else to become an "associate" but nobody sells a product. This is supposed to make everybody rich. NOT! By the way Pyramid marketing is not the same thing as network or multi level marketing. The former is built on thin air the latter on a real product or service. Virtually every sales organization (insurance, mutual funds, real estate to name a few) is based on some multi level formula.

2. Cookie Cutter is nothing but a training course which teaches a novice the basics of e-commerce. It is an END PRODUCT, not a pyramid of distributorships or associates. There are no commissions. I am offering this very economical ($20) course precisely because so many novices fall into the pyramid trap when they try to get involved with e-commerce.

In the very near future, the internet will be as much a part of the fabric that binds us as the PTT is today - only more so. Directly or indirectly every single one of us will be involved if we aren't already. Does the company you work for have a web site? How about the school? What about this forum, does it make money and if so, do you know how?

You are right about one thing. I absolutely LOVE the internet and the possibilities it has to offer. I spent 18 months studying its ins and outs - what a rush!

Believe me, Cookie Cutter is just a brief introduction. The high level courses cost $500 or more but that is overkill unless you really intend to get into the business. As I already wrote there, my earlier post was the poetic achievement of a friend, not my own. I happen to think that it sums up the current state of affairs rather well.

Finally a personal note. All my life, I have endeavored to stay with the front of the pack; to recognize new trends before they become commonplace. In it's early days, the postal service was as revolutionary as the internet is today. In a few short years, I will lose my ATP and sometime later maybe even my classII medical - such is the nature of things. By then I expect to be well postioned to be a 'player' on the internet.

Cheers http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/cool.gif

P.S. Thanks for the compliment about my web site :)


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You are welcome to visit HELIDRVR here (http://helidrvr.cjb.net)


[This message has been edited by helidrvr (edited 08 February 2001).]

[Captain 2per]

I've seen quite a few cases in Canada where a bush contract inculded a contra deal for placement of the customer's name/logo on the helicopter for the duration of the contract. However, I don't think that the customer paid extra for this - the operator was more than happy to do it in return for getting the contract.

Conversely, I can't see why any charter customer would want to be flying around with someone else's "flag" on the helicopter. Especially in corporate charter, this idea might lose you more charter revenue than it will bring in advertising fees.