NZ helicopter missing (Now found)

[7balja01]

what happened with the thread on the beer company tycoon from NZ who went missing?

[Flight Safety]

I don't know, but I'm sure the proper authorities are looking into both disappearances. ;)

[troppo]

i was thinking the same...toy tossing transformed into name calling and i guess someone cried to the mod

tradgedy about the apparent accident

[cl12pv2s]

Didn't see the thread, but for your information...if the topic starter decides to delete first entry in the thread then the whole thread will disappear. Maybe this is what happened.

cl12pv2s

[SHortshaft]

Maybe Ned felt it was his ‘train set’?

[Silent Supporter]

It would seem that Ned took some observations and criticism personally, and spat his dummy and removed his 12 or 13 posts.

Still no advancement regarding the location of the wreckage thou.

SS.

[Granny]

Yeah Im wondering where it went too! -seems Nod spat the dummy tossed the toys instead of himself and bang went the thread. And I was only just warming up, Quess we wont hear from Nod again cause he said he was dealing with Ignorants (not sure if that word is in the Oxford , Nod) I looked and only could find -Ignominious, ignominy, ignoramus, ignorance, ignorant and lastly ignore, which I certainly hope Nod does not do to us as I still have a couple weeks to go until I head back to work and frankly I need a sparing partner.

[Heliport]

I assume Ned deleted it. As pointed out above, the whole thread is lost if the originator deletes the first post. I was off-line for most of yesterday and the thread had already gone when I logged on at 17:00Z.
I didn't see the exchanges so can't comment on the rights and wrongs of whatever occurred, but Granny's claim that he was "only just warming up", his need for a "sparing" partner, and deliberately mis-spelling someone's name suggests not all the blame was on one side.


Granny
Since you mention spelling - "Quess" isn't in the Oxford either, but "sparing" is, although it probably isn't what you meant to say. It means moderate or economical - qualities worth bearing in mind when 'sparring' with others on the forum.
Maybe we won't hear from Ned again for a while, which would be a pity. Whatever his faults - a shorter fuse, and more prone to extreme over-reaction, than anyone I've encountered in my life etc - Ned made valuable contributions to the forum. I hope you'll use some of your time before you head back to work to make some yourself.


Heliport

[Heliport]

Stuff.co.nz report Ercegs branch off in helicopter search
10 November 2005

The family of missing liquor tycoon Michael Erceg have launched a new helicopter search for him – in a different area to the Government-funded effort.
A family spokesman said they still hoped to find Mr Erceg and his Dutch passenger, Guus Klatte, alive.

While the Rescue Coordination Centre focused its efforts on a new area near Mt Karioi, near Raglan, yesterday, a private detective hired by the family searched the southern Waikato. The family hired investigator Alan Beck at 4am on Tuesday. He wants anyone who reported sightings of the missing helicopter to police to now ring him on an 0800 number.
He believes the last sighting of Mr Erceg's helicopter was near Eltham, where two helicopters paid for by the Erceg family searched yesterday.

Family spokesman Garry Major said "despite the family branching off in their own search", searchers had done a fantastic job. "If (director Peter) Jackson decides to make his next movie a rescue, it should be this one."

Another helicopter from the Rescue Coordination Centre was out searching yesterday, but up to five will complete checking the area today.

Meanwhile, the Government-funded search had almost certainly become the most expensive of its kind, centre spokesman Steve Corbett said.
Hopes were raised yesterday when a search and rescue helicopter spotted a patch of what appeared to be broken foliage near Mt Karioi. A 12-person ground crew was sent in to dense bush to investigate, but had not reached the area by nightfall.

Workers have already spent six days searching for the pair, covering 20,000 square kilometres near Wanganui and Taranaki, with up to 20 helicopters at a time.
"It's almost certainly the biggest aviation search in New Zealand history," Mr Corbett said.

Mr Erceg is the founder of Independent Liquor and New Zealand's ninth richest man.

[7balja01]

let's keep this thread going till the end.

jacob

[Heliport]

New Zealand Herald report Official search for Erceg helicopter ends
11.11.05 7.00am

The official search for multimillionaire helicopter pilot Michael Erceg and his Dutch passenger, Guus Klatte, has ended.

The Rescue Co-ordination Centre decided last night there was nothing else that could be done to find the men, who disappeared a week ago, unless new information came in.

But Mr Erceg's family will continue with a private search they started yesterday in the belief that they are closing in on the men's whereabouts, in the Taranaki area.

Mr Erceg and Mr Klatte disappeared on a flight from South Auckland to Queenstown.

[helmet fire]

I am wondering if in NZ you guys had something similar to this:

several years ago, each flight had to report it's position points along track, and adjust estimates for the next position when they varied by more than 2 minutes, much like IFR flights have to do now. Along came Dick Smith, and all this was abolished for VFR flights because it was cheaper and less work for the VFR pilot.

I am wondering if the cost of such searches, and there have been many in Oz since Uncle Dick's reforms, have been factored into the claimed cost cutting?

Another issue over here is the continued reluctance of VFR pilots to broadcast on area frequencies about positional information, again at the behest of Uncle Dick's reforms. Would these men have been found if they broadcast positions every now and then, or at least made an area frequency broadcast that they were changing their intended track so the tapes could be used to help track them? What would that have cost?

I hope they are found alive and well, and my thoughts go to their respective families.

Anyone know if they eventually found that guy (and his girlfriend)who went down afet going IMC in his helicopter last year near Milford Sound and Routeburn Track?

[noooby]

That 500 was never found helmet fire. There are a surprising number of aircraft still missing in New Zealand, some that you would think should have been found by now. A Tomahawk took off from Ardmore, just south of Auckland many years ago for a training flight in the designated training area, and never came back. Still a family missing down Milford somewhere in their Piper Cherokee 6, and that's from the 70's I think. New Zealand is not very friendly toward lost aircraft. Dense bush that closes over aircraft leaving little or no trace (remember the Heli-Sika MD500??), inaccessible mountain valleys, and glaciers all combine to hide aircraft from the searchers. Darkly coloured aircraft don't help too much either. ELT's seem to be a problem too. Anyone notice that no ELT signal was picked up?? You would think that with a helicopter this new it would have a 406Mhz ELT, that would go straight to a satellite, but it hasn't activated, or, it isn't attached to it's antenna anymore. Was talking to a kiwi accident investigator last year, and he said that of the last 7 helicopter accidents he ahd investigated, the ELT activated in only 2 of those. Food for thought.

Edit so the spelling police don't complain too much ;)

[noooby]

13/11/2005NewstalkZBThe family search for millionaire Michael Erceg goes into its eighth day today.

The hunt for the liquor baron and his Dutch friend Guus Klatte was called off early yesterday in the Ohura area of the King Country because of poor visibility.

Pilot John Funnell says the search will focus on Mt Messenger, east of New Plymouth.

He says rescuers received electronic information from the area which they believe could have come from a damaged beacon.

The helicopters used yesterday will venture out today.

Mr Erceg's brother Ivan says the helicopters will be joined by 30 people on the ground today.

He says it is a faint signal at this stage, but has significantly narrowed the search area.

Ivan Erceg says fresh pilots will be brought on board to allow others to rest.

[NickLappos]

Weak signals can still be detected. Once at Sikorsky we were told we had an ELT going off, but we could not hear it. The folks from Scott AFB who monitor the signals came back the next day with a picture of the factory, and a spot indicated where the signal originated. The spot was over an equipment crib where the ELT, with its antenna disconnected, had triggered when it was dropped, in its box!

[Hughesy]

Hey Noooby.
What was the story with the MD500?
Cheers
Hughesy

[Steve76]

Helmet Fire,

The system that DS implemented has been working fine up here for the longest time. The key is just as you said: You have to make area position reports.

Even if you think you are the only person in the sky. It goes beyond just letting people know your intentions and into the recording equipment of the ATC types.
It appears to me that a lot of pilots choose not to do this, whether from laziness or lack of professionalism. It is not uncommon to have an aircraft appear in the same airspace without any warning even if you are transmitting. This leads to the conclusion that a lot of pilots are not monitoring the correct frequencies nor switching enroute.

What to do?

[noooby]

Hughesy,

If I remember correctly, a Hughes 500 with pilot and female English passenger took off in marginal weather froma camping hut in the milford area of the south island (very rugged dense bush). i believe they were suposed to be returning to queenstown??? anyway, got stuck on top of solid cloud cover, no idea where they were. last radio contact was that he was running low on gas. never been found. no ELT signal picked up. where would you start looking??

[B Sousa]

I assume Ned deleted it. As pointed out above, the whole thread is lost if the originator deletes the first post. I was off-line for most of yesterday and the thread had already gone when I logged on at 17:00Z.

HP). No doubt your correct on that one. Those of who know Ned know hes a great guy, but if you want to get into a pissin contest with him, he has a short fuse and would just as soon open a can of Whoop Ass than argue.
So for those who wish to do battle with him, do it in a Pub where you can enjoy a beer after all the blood gets wiped away.

[7balja01]

so whats the latest on the downed chopper?

[Te_Kahu]

Chopper searchers buoyed by signals
17 November 2005 ex NZPA

Distress beacon signals being picked up from an area southwest of Hamilton have buoyed searchers looking for Auckland liquor magnate Michael Erceg and his missing helicopter.


As a result of the signals picked up by the private search team the national Rescue Co-ordination Centre (RCC) is also to put up a helicopter today, a week after the official search ended.

Last night private search controller Roger Smith said three beacon signals had been picked up by a two-person team with direction finders on Mt Pirongia, southwest of Hamilton, about 9.30pm on Monday.

The team had also picked up another signal about 6.30am yesterday.

A signal had also been picked up by a commercial plane at 4.46pm yesterday South-west of Hamilton, and an air force airplane following five minutes behind had picked up the "very weak" same beacon, Mr Smith said.

"It's a very positive feeling today. We now feel as though we're finally starting to narrow the search area down."

Mr Erceg's Eurocopter was last seen on radar on November 4 about half an hour after it took off from Ardmore Airfield in Auckland on a flight to Queenstown. Mr Erceg, one of the country's richest men, was the pilot and his passenger was a Dutch beer company executive Guus Klatte.

AdvertisementAdvertisementIt was believed Mr Erceg had reached Mokau on the coast north of New Plymouth on his way to his first planned refuelling stop at Wanganui, but turned back because of the weather and had been heading for Auckland or Hamilton, Mr Smith said.

The private searchers believe the official search, which concentrated on Taranaki, had been looking in the wrong area.

Last night Mr Smith said a fixed wing aircraft, with detection gear, was in the air as he was speaking and would try to pick up the signal.

There had to be something out there, he said.

"This (Mr Erceg's) helicopter's beacon didn't go off as it was supposed to, so it's malfunctioned for some reason."

But it could give off the randomly pulsing signal being picked up now.

RCC spokesman Lindsay Sturt said the searchers had notified the centre yesterday afternoon of a weak signal in the Raglan area, roughly on the flight path of the missing aircraft.

RCC was sending up a helicopter this morning to have a look, although the detection of the signal was being treated as a separate beacon notification, he said.

The centre had not picked up the beacon itself nor had it been picked up by satellite.

[7balja01]

that was quite descriptive.


thanks tah ku or whatever it was?

[gentleben]

It's been two weeks now and this has popped up,

http://xtramsn.co.nz/news/0,,11964-5043345,00.html

[Te_Kahu]

Nov 19, 2005

The Rescue Co-ordination Centre confirmed on Satruday evening that the helicopter belonging to missing businessman Michael Erceg has been found near Mt Karioi near Raglan.

It says there are no survivors on board.

Erceg and his passenger Guus Klatte had been missing for more than two weeks.

A faint voice heard on a radio transmission on Friday had given fresh hope to family and friends searching for the two missing men.

They believe it was a call for help from the millionaire liquour baron but rescue staff say they were not convinced enough to re-open the official search.

It was two weeks since the pair simply disappeared on a flight from Auckland to Queenstown.

Fifteen days since Erceg went missing, his family had believed they had the strongest evidence yet that he was still alive

"I heard a tired male voice, and I could just make out the words 'here' and 'down'," Erceg's brother Ivan said.

Ivan and three others heard the muffled voice on a helicopter radio while searching on Friday.

On Saturday, 12 ground searchers explored the dense bush where the radio signal seemed strongest, but had found nothing.

A Rescue Coordination Centre spokesman says it appears both men died on impact.

[RomeoAlfa]

What the mistery!
Is it so impossible in 21 century find missing aircraft?
What about special military equipment?!! IR sensors,distance iron-detectors?This heli does not made from paper,right?
p.s.Just found this thread.Wrote it a couple of hours before...

[last third]

RA.

The quality of the rescue effort is directly proportional to the resources allocated. All the Mil Tech in the world won't help if the appropriate resources are not rallied in a coordinated effort. In the majority of cases civil SAR agencies are designated operational control and we the Mil only get activated at the 11th hour when all other efforts are either exhausted or deemed unsuccessful.

Fairly challenging country that the helo went down in. Not sure if an ELT was on board or a CPI, however this would have been a place to start.

Thoughts go out to the families and friends involved.

Lasty.

:*

[noooby]

Not a good outcome.
The civilian helicopters that do this kind of searching in NZ have far better equipment than the military. Good DF equipment and Infra-Red cameras. ELT's are mandatory on all Powered Aircraft and Helicopters in NZ. From the age of this helicopter, it is most likely that a 406MHz ELT was fitted. Yet no Satellite signal was received, and none of the helicopters equipped with DF equipment picked up an ELT signal. I am sure they were doing their best to find these guys, these searches are not taken lightly.
Romeo Alfa, you should probably come and have a look at some of the terrain in New Zealand, maybe then you would understand why there are quite a few aircraft still missing in New Zealand. Very rough country in alot of places.
Thanks for the update Te Kahu, have been looking for info on the net to no avail.

[RomeoAlfa]

May be I will visit NZ in possible future.Who knows...

[wesp]

Bloody sad.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3484743a10,00.html

[WITCH]

Bodies of missing men found near Raglan

SATURDAY , 19 NOVEMBER 2005

The search for a missing helicopter pilot and liquor magnate, who went missing with his Dutch beer company executive passenger more than two weeks ago, ended on Saturday.

The bodies of Michael Erceg and his passenger, Guus Klatte, were found in the wreckage of the helicopter at the base of Mt Karioi, south of Raglan, about 7pm today, a spokesman for the Wellington-based Rescue Coordination Centre told NZPA tonight.

"The bodies of the missing men and the helicopter were found by an independent search party and were thought to have also been spotted by a helicopter," the spokesman said.

He said Mr Erceg's helicopter had crashed into an area of bush within farmland at the base of the mountain.

"Both men are believed to have died in the crash," he said.

Mr Erceg, one of New Zealand's richest men, and Mr Klatte were heading for Queenstown with planned refuelling stops at Wanganui and Rangiora, when they went missing on Nov 4.

Michael Erceg's brother, Ivan, who has been leading the family's search for the missing men, was not available for comment tonight.

Police referred all inquiries to the Rescue Coordination Centre.

The official search for Mr Erceg and Mr Klatte was suspended more than a week ago.

[B Sousa]

Sad ending to these threads. We always had hope.......

Romeo Alpha, you seem surprised that an aircraft can go missing. If Im correct in the state of California alone there are over a hundred aircraft unaccounted for overdue aircraft over many years. One body recently found in the Sierra Neavda Mountains was that of a missing airman from WW2.
There are a few websites out there that deal with this and it is an extremely interesting subject.

http://www.lostbirds.com

http://www.pacificwrecks.com/

http://www.tighar.org/

http://www.aircraftwrecks.com/

[Te_Kahu]

Missing men found dead in crashed helicopter

20.11.05 6.15am

The search for a missing helicopter pilot and liquor magnate, who went missing with his Dutch beer company executive passenger more than two weeks ago, ended last night.

The bodies of Michael Erceg and his passenger, Guus Klatte, were found at the base of Mt Karioi, south of Raglan, about 6.30pm today by a Lion Foundation rescue helicopter team using a forward looking infra red (FLIR) camera.

A spoekesman for the Rescue Coordination Centre in Wellington said that the two men had died in the crash.

Mr Erceg's EC120 Eurocopter had crashed on the eastern side of Mt Karioi, south of Raglan, Lion Foundation rescue helicopter spokesman John Funnell said in a statement.

The helicopter had crashed a finger of bush in the middle of a farmer's paddock.

"The search area the rescue helicopter was in was as a result of information received from another pilot who had analysed the radar information of the helicopter's track on the day of the accident.

"The crash site was not far from the last recorded position on the radar track," Mr Funnell said.

Mr Erceg, one of New Zealand's richest men, and Mr Klatte were heading for Queenstown with planned refuelling stops at Wanganui and Rangiora, when they went missing on November 4.

Michael Erceg's brother, Ivan, who has been leading the family's search for the missing men, was not available for comment tonight.

The official search for Mr Erceg and Mr Klatte was suspended more than a week ago.

- NZPA

[7balja01]

are there any photographs of the crash site.

regards.

jacob.

[WITCH]

Detective work led to Erceg's copter

MONDAY , 21 NOVEMBER 2005

By HANK SCHOUTEN
Meticulous detective work by a helicopter pilot and persistence led to the discovery of millionaire Michael Erceg's smashed helicopter.

The bodies of the liquor baron and his Dutch passenger, Guus Klatte, were recovered yesterday.

The wreckage of Mr Erceg's Eurocopter, which disappeared from radar while flying south from Auckland two weeks ago, was found on Saturday in a narrow strip of bush on farmland on the eastern slopes of Mt Karioi, about 20 kilometres south of Raglan.

Lion Foundation rescue helicopter pilot Guy Beange said searchers were directed to the area after Auckland Westpac rescue helicopter pilot Darryl Sherwin had done a careful analysis of error in the radar system that tracked Mr Erceg's fatal flight.

Mr Sherwin said yesterday that, two weeks ago, searchers were advised radar error could be up to 500 meters either side of its last reported radar position. He had flown on an earlier search flight and said that after analysing his own flight path and radar plots – and the radar plot of the missing helicopter – he calculated searchers should look 693 metres east of Mr Erceg's last reported radar position.

It took a few days to find other pilots who could understand what he was talking about and he was delighted when his calculations proved correct.

However, he was not critical of search coordinators. "No doubt something will be learnt from this, but that will come out in the debriefing."

Mr Sherwin said the strip of bush where the helicopter had gone down in a descending turn was in the middle of open farmland. "A second either way and it would have been over an open paddock and they would have found him straight away. Heaps of helicopters might have flown over that same strip of bush without thinking anything could be in there."

Mr Beange said the crash scene was spotted visually, and with the use of infra-red heat-seeking equipment on his Squirrel helicopter.

"There was a small area of damage where the aircraft went in but we also had the benefit of two weeks of dieback, which gave the bush a slightly different colour."

Official search efforts began at Karioi, then rapidly moved south toward Wanganui as possible sightings of the missing helicopter were checked out.

Bill Sommer of the Civil Aviation Authority said crash investigators were likely to be at the crash scene for up to three days. It could take up to nine months to complete the investigation.

Family and friends of the crash victims said yesterday they hoped lessons were learnt from the search.

Independent Liquor director and private search co-ordinator Roger Smith said: "Now is not the time to dwell on any mistakes that may have been made and issues as to how the search was conducted. These questions can be addressed at a later date."

[whopwhop]

This doesnt really give justic to the terrain in which most of the search was carried out.
http://xtramsn.co.nz/news/0,,11964-5047008-300,00.html

And the article
http://xtramsn.co.nz/news/0,,11964-5048885,00.html

Dont know if the link will work!!

[reynoldsno1]

Another apparent factor was the composite rotor blades - they disintegrated on impact into 1000's of pieces. Metal blades would have stayecd relatively intact and may have been easier to spot......

A sad day, though....

[Bob da Builder]

Very sad day for the Helicopter industry in nz and especially the families of those killed. What a tragic ending to the story. There are still to many of these accidents happening in NZ and around the world. The common question always comes to mind, "What do you mean we can't find them????" It Must have been very frustrating for the family.

I was involved in a similar seach for an R22 flown by Mr Burns. He again a private owner went missing somewhere between Taupo and Tauranga (60nm direct track), with no flight following or flight plan, no activation of the ELT. The area involved alot of dense bush and also farm land but his intensional track unknown meaning one huge search area. After days of seaching they where found in a paddock 10nm from taupo aerodrome!

There needs to be a bit of education on the importance of position reporting and flight following on private ops. Tell someone you will call them on each fuel stop and the exact route to be taken. Cellphone kits are cheap and easy way for you to keep people up to date with where you are at.

I never plan for seach and rescue to come looking for me. If they don't know (or cant find out) my last position or track, IM NOT DOING MY JOB PROPERLY!!!
I know the rescue machines have all the gear to find me with, but they should only have to rescue me, not search for me. We dont need more high tech search equipement, we need to change mindsets. I have often sked myself "does anyone know Im here if I go down, well better tell someone"

[7balja01]

does anyone know how many choppers are missing in vietnam?

[Thomas coupling]

Isn't Vietnam over?