Change required...

[collective bias]

Does anyone know the percentages of pilots who achieve a CPL, and then fail to get a job. I once heard that in NZ 1% of CPL's finally enter the workforce. This is sad for the individuals and sad for those working. Some of these people were never going to make it and should have been culled early in the peace. They cause the excess supply and drive the wages down. The civilian system allows too many persons who the military would've dropped to acquire licences simply by spending and spending to finally make the minimum grade. Its my opinion that if you can't show competence and ability through each stage of your licence, the system should MAKE you go. I have lost count of the worthless individuals I have worked with that struggle with the basics of aircraft handling. Yet somehow they get through on pity and luck, into an industry that really doesn't need their incompetence.
In Australasia we have 400hr instructors teaching people to fly. A 400hr instructor has nothing to give to a student but the very very very basics. These people are also struggling and will never turn away the chance to fly, or the dollars. Result - more incompetence.
In Australia you can achieve a CPL with 105hrs. Your can re-sit the exams endlessly and lets face it you don't have to be a rocket scientist to learn the material.
Literally dozens of 105hr wannabes show up at the doorstep of the hanger wanting a job. Some trial period later they are given a check flight and 75% fail MISERABLY. They somehow achieved the minimum standard but did not learn to fly or read an aircrafts handling. AND THIS IS DOING CIRCUTS!!!
We need major O/H of the licencing requirements. Helicopter aviation needs to remove the cowboy element and raise the bar. The minimum standard should be the ATPL theory. You will never need all that knowledge but it will deter the dreamers. As with most countries the hours requirement needs to be 150hrs. IFR exposure training (simulator minimum) needs to be mandatory. If you cannot fly your aircraft in all conditions, then you need to learn.
Sorry for the depression I have caused in the wannabees and for the whinging, I have more to gripe about and I do have some answers.
but gotta go....
Problem: Too many low time pilots, not enough jobs. Problem creates Supply and demand govern everything in life and those at the bottom or not far from it in the aviation industry are

[SPS]

The current system is not perfect, but what would you replace it with?

Schools (good and bad) closing because their will be 99% less students (using the 1% quoted)? And then competition will diminish, bad thing in any free market and even worse should training become a closed domain (especially if gov'ts got more involved).
Be in no doubt that training is cheaper for all because of throughflow and competion,
cheaper for those that have lots of natural
ability and really do belong in the Heli.

Even the highest time pilot in the world (don't know him but I do know one with 30,000) must have had 105 hrs sometime.
We all must start somewhere.

I think that the 'natural selection' I have mentioned on another thread does most of the weeding out.

I agree that 105 is not enough. until very recently it was 400 P1 in UK, until JAA.

But I can't agree with the linking of 'cowboy' to 'low time'.

Quote- "Helicopter aviation needs to remove the cowboy element and raise the bar."

You were low time once but I guess you would have been wounded if called a cowboy by association?!

[collective bias]

Well rebutted SPS,
My intention with the statement 'remove the cowboys' is related to introducing levels of competence higher than currently set. This is a local area term and not justified for the wannabies.
The competitive nature of the training industry is part of the problem. Pushing students through CPL's is the name of the game. They are not accurately accessing individuals worth for the industry they are training for. They are only satisfied to see the minima of skill reached and is boarderline irresponsible. I think they do somewhere during the process recognise that the student is not to standard, but, if you have money & time....
The money orientation and desperation to survive is driving them. Additionally they are training people for a market that is saturated. In OZ I met a guy who went from go to CPL in 4 months. He had no exposure to aviation before that point. He never even trained in a winter environment because he had finished before the change of season. He had the absolute minimum confined/bush exposure and was up in the NT, trying to figure out 40+ degrees C and DA's of 4500+ feet...
No wonder we have so many accidents. Check and training is often non-existent with these small companies and the new pilots are expected to perform increasingly more complex tasks without a core foundation of quality training.

[helimutt]

How the hell is a low time pilot supposed to get experience when he can't get a placement with a company due to lack of hours.
I agree that the incompetents should be weeded out but what if a 200 hour instructor comes along, is a natural pilot and has absolutely no problem teaching a student to fly and pass the exams. Should he be unemployed because of his low hours. What about the scenario of the more hours you spend in the air, the more bad habits you get into? You must be so lucky to have so much money, or wealthy parents. Able to go out and buy a helicopter, build your hours up for free then gripe on about low time inexperienced pilots. If not, the forces is an option for free flying. So which is it?
Weren't you a low time pilot?

[collective bias]

Helimutt,
my comments are only my opinions and like the saying goes "opinions are like arseholes everyone has one..."
Basically I feel sorry for guys who show up with a head full of false impressions and an empty wallet. $50000 buys a lot of future in another form of education and in Aviation it buys you a ticket to learn. Certainly many gifted pilots emerge from their training but some never should've. Those who can't perform are inhibiting the likes of yourself by simply being available.
Everyone is a low timer once and most of us still retain that feeling for a long time, believe me it is still a struggle 1000hrs+. If you can fly you will get the oportunities through time spent as decribed in 'My Services free' thread. Advice from SPS, Tech and Helidrv in there is worth noting.
I feel unless you are very fortunate it is unrealistic to expect a job the day after you get the CPL. If you do - more power to you....
NB:
NO rich daddy, no money (5yrs repayments - with family), no helicopter, no military. 3yrs ground crew in Ag for stuff all ferry time (after acquiring CPL), 1yr hanger time as AME and plenty of self-education expences, 18 months home study for ATPL.
Good Luck

[lmlanphere]

as far as the glut of newly certified pilots that you refer to, it can be looked at another way: companies have that many more prospects to choose from and therefore the quality of the pilot selected will be higher. This of course doesn't help out all the other less qualified pilots, but will maybe raise the bar, and force them to learn more.

[Pac Rotors]

I agree with your comments about low time instructors. I visited a school recently and saw one of the local instructors giving a check ride to an overseas pilot who wanted to rent a helo. When they came back the visitor commented that the instructor had no clue when it came to confined area landings. For the record the visitor had over 5000 hrs. The next day that Instructor was off on a flight with a student gaining experience in guess what: confined area landings??.

Maybe there could be some sort of system where you have to go and work in the real world with a commercial operator before being able to pass on experience as an instructor. I know in Australia the head instructors at Blue Tounge, Becker Helicopters etc are all very experienced pilots who have done their time in places like PNG etc.

Maybe its worth a thought.

[chopper1]

Having met many operators and heli pilots..young and old ones.....experienced an fresh out of school....i agree that the level of training should be raised (not to speak of a character check before the first flight!!).

Not only should the level of training be raised but the honesty of many operators promising the newcommers the world. We all know that most operators only survive by instructing....(a very dangereous situation indeed!!)

We at Chopper1 (www.chopper1.com.au) (we're not an operator but a marketing company) are trying to create a new marketing concept...in order to reduce costs....make an indusrty healthier....create more jobs THAT PAY....and raise the standards overall.....

your reply is awaited with anticipation... :-)

[Pat Gerard]

It is a catch 22 situation. The low time pilots can't get jobs, therefore they instruct to build up hours. To do that, heli-schools need students. They advertise how glamorous a job it is,how well paid it can be, encouraging people to spend money in their schools, creating yet more low time pilots who in turn will have to instruct to gain instruction. It happens everywhere in the world. I suppose it is a business. Fixed-wings schools do it as well.
Difficult to change.

[helicrap2001]

JUst how many are out there looking for that first job in Australia? The last time i was up north there were people working for free in the hanger to get their foot in the door and then getting paid 300 a week when they started flying.
MY advice is go fixed wing or get a real job