A320 V B737

[J430]

It would be interesting to see the debate between A320 and B737 crews on the better in flight characteristics of the two aircraft, particularly those with a fair experience on both types.

Last few days I had my first A320 experience on a new JQ A320 and in particular the flight from Cairns To Brisbane last night was more interesting than I expected. Take offs were noticeably more noisy and with more vibration. Landing approaches a lot less stable, and in fact the decent last night was quite different, it was with a quicker rate of descent than normal, possibly for ATC requirements (or the crew wanting to get home), however it was not as pleasant for the customers.

Conditions at YBBN last night were not too bad, few knots of xwind and otherwise no significant weather. The approach was rolling quite a lot (hard to guess in degrees) but let say hundreds of B737 landings in much more volatile conditions were no worse, so it leads me to think it must be a characteristic of the a/c type. This was all the way on a right base and final and landing for RWY19. Possibly a green F/O getting his hands on the controls for the first few times, however I do not want to persecute the crew.

Can anybody shed some light or if you were crewing on Sunday night offer any explanation? Otherwise it seems to me Mr Boeing builds a nicer plane and one that does not rattle, squeak, vibrate, flex and roll as much under what were pretty good conditions.

Cheers
J:ok:

[Taildragger67]

A more interesting comparison is that one known to most Australian men:

Ford vs Holden...

[757manipulator]

Airbus vs Boeing

2 totally different design concepts, Airbus engineer a VERY efficient people carrier..

Boeing have always been in the business of building bombers...ones that drop bombs..and ones that carry people. Generally a boeing is more engineered than an Airbus..although I wonder how the 787 will come together.

Perhaps a better comparison is..Citroen vs Cadillac

:}

[ACMS]

AIRBUS: built by dummies to be flown by genious's ( sorry about my spelling )

BOEING: built by genious's to be flown by dummies


AIRBUS: Hyundai ( cheap plastic crap, get what you pay for )

BOEING: Rolls Royce


I don't care how Bus drivers justify and defend their Aircraft, it is rubbish.

Roll on the 787

[Redstone]

Airbus = Sky Skoda

[Buster Hyman]

Does the Jet* A320's have the same buzzing noise, or was that only on the CFM powered ones?

[56P]

Having operated both types (9 years on B737 - 200,300 & NG and 7 years on A319/320), IMHO the Airbus has a very nice cockpit and an excellent autothrust system. Apart from that, it's a heap of ****. It appears to have been designed for pilots who can't fly and can't think.

Awaiting the incoming!

[J430]

This thread could go on for year by the sound of it.

Buster H
I think I know the noise you mean, and I did not notice it, so maybe its the CFM as you get it on some 737's...or its something in the Cabin crews carry on luggage:}

So back to sloppy approaches and take offs that make you think the fuselage is extruded like a PVC pipe (and might be), is this the bus or the crews? Two different crews, same aircraft VQQ and two different and sloppy rides.

By the way boys Holden V Ford......Holden by a nose but only because I race one.....I drive Toyota's!!

J:ok:

[Arsey Eight]

J430, I just love listening to back seat drivers. So tell me, what 'experience' do you have to quote, 'sloppy approaches', 'a lot less stable' from down the back of this 'PVC pipe'?

The IAE V2500 does growl on take off, and the buffet you feel on descent is the landing lights being extended (into the airflow).

[Metro man]

Airbus vs Boeing

Ford vs Holden

Jeppesen vs Airservices

PC vs Apple

VHS vs Betamax

Cairns vs Townsville

Anyone got any more ?:zzz:

[Buster Hyman]

The only buffet I've felt on descent is when the trolley wasn't secured by the Dolly!!!:ouch:

[tinpis]

One is bigger.:hmm:
A quick glance up the wingtips told me i was getting into the right one.

The approach was rolling quite a lot (hard to guess in degrees)......... Possibly a green F/O getting his hands on the controls for the first few times,


Nope.

Thronomister left in high range.

[J430]

Gooday Tinny,

Lets hope the media don't read this then, it will have been a near tragedy with 480 screaming passengers, wingtips almost wiping out the terminals and that bloody Thronomister left in high range!!!

Sounds to me like the bus is not as popular with the bulk of you too..... Just as I suspected.

the Bloody french!!......who said that?

EOM
J:ok:

[Speeds high]

It would be interesting to see the debate between A320 and B737

No it wouldn't; debate about blondes and brunettes, now thats interesting!

it was with a quicker rate of descent than normal

Really, how could you tell?

The approach was rolling quite a lot (hard to guess in degrees) but let say hundreds of B737 landings in much more volatile conditions were no worse, so it leads me to think it must be a characteristic of the a/c type

Could have been pilot induced, bit hard to compare aircraft when you have only had the one trip.

Mr Boeing builds a nicer plane

No arguments there (in my limited experiance)

[Sunfish]

Don't know enough about Airbus, but I saw Boeing build the 767 prototype and played around with the mockups and did the engineering familiarisation course.

Boeing builds a very nice aircraft in my opinion, at least from the maintainability point of view. They also listened to their customers (in those days).

Douglas on the other hand built over designed aircraft and and anytime you offered a suggestion all you got told was "We built the DC3, when we want your opinion we'll ask for it."

Typical example - pilot's opening window on DC9 - finely machined castings and forgings, lots of levers and a spring. Boeings one looked like it was cobbled together from old tuna cans.

[Going Boeing]

As far as passenger appeal goes, the A320 leaves the B737 for dead - did I really say that?

[bantios]

Come on guys.. I think some of you are over the top here.

I have flown the 737- 300/400/NG for 3 years now and have recently just gone on the BUS. You could say the 737 is a real mans plane as it involves alot of direct inputs and handling from the pilot. It still has its conventional cockpit. The NG is a bit more modern as it has a glass cockpit but pretty much the same to fly (only faster on the approaches).

The 320 is a totally different concept. There is about 40% less workload for the pilot as everything is AUTO this AUTO that. Auto trim is probably one of the best things ever invented. You could say that your flying the computer rather than the plane itself. This concept is designed on the Crew Resource Management concept where team skills, computers and modern avionics is the key. Boeings are just hard, rigid, man's plane that requires more handling skills rather than computer skills.

As for the rough approach that got mentioned, it's not the plane. The smoothness of the flight varies from pilot to pilot, is weather dependant, etc.

I enjoy both. They are both totally different but excellent to fly.

[Ultralights]

Auto trim? even the Humble aussie made Jabiru Ultralight has that! :}

[Buster Hyman]

...AUTO land, AUTO go-round, AUTOhmyf#*@ingGod!!!....:ouch:

[soldier of fortune]

hey metro man
how about jena jamison Vs brianna banks

[Gear in transit]

Whats with the surging noise that comes from the bus just before engine start and during gear retraction?
Is it just the hydraulic pumps or what?

It's VERY noisy and generally gets everyones attention around the wheel wells.

[Zigzag]

That's the PTU you can hear.

As long as it "surges" consistently (and not too fast or slow), everything is OK!

[18-Wheeler]

As far as passenger appeal goes, the A320 leaves the B737 for dead

Are you joking?

I had the misfortune to travel on a J* A320 the other day and I was extremely unimpressed as to the interior.
As people walked past me, I could literally feel the floor flexing up an down quite a bit, making my seat rock a bit from side-to-side.
Then on landing with the application of reverse thrust I honestly thought the overhead lockers were going to fall off, as they were vibrating so badly and flapping around it really did look like they were about to come loose.

Never again will I set foot in one ...

[Sunfish]

Relax 18 wheeler, it's just a simple matter of economy. Boeing uses more expensive titanium thronomisters, Airbus uses cheaper Aluminium/ Lithium alloy ones that flex.

[Wizofoz]

What can be said is that airlines carefully look at all the factors mentioned here....Then buy whichever is cheaper!!!

[J430]

18 Wheeler

Having seen your posts before you sound like someone who knows something about flying the heavy metal.

I am glad you also noticed the floor flexing and the severe vibration with reverse thrust.

If I had mentioned that it would have been a case of uneducated back seat driver syndrome again.

You can also add this to my list of complaints. As for those wondering yes it was a shabby ride and may have been pilot induced in part but i think I have a pretty good picture.

Avoid the bloody things!!

They must be cheap...anybody know how they compare to the Boeing? no BS here tell the truth...

J:E

[Arsey Eight]

So J430, what do you fly at the moment out of curiousity? I'm hoping you have a sound experience level (apart from FS2004) to make these judgements. :ok:

[J430]

Arsey Eight

To answer your question........ Assume none!!!

This is not relevant. If I had no flying experience it would have been just purely observation of the actual flight performance V previous experience and making a sound judgement for the weather at the time.

I reality my flying experience as a PAX....not as much as some and quite a lot more than most.

As a pilot......PPL read my profile..... however that has little to do with the topic, except that given the conditions and the experiences on other types, it seemed a far less stable platform on which flying could be conducted. Or the crew was green. If you were the crew on Sunday night, do not take offence, just tell the truth, no witch hunt here. Just interested in the comment, constructive comment on why as a PAX it seemed on two occassions less like a sound a/c. Tthis does not translate to dodgey and dangerous a/c, just less of a comfortable stable and predictable one than the B7 series.

What is your point???? I am telling you how it was...No BS. Just wanted to see what non BS opinions were out there. Seems many agree with my observations. If you were in fact A320 crew or even on that flight I would welcome your comment, but please do not try to shoot me down just on my PPL status, that had nothing to do with it. I was a PAX and possibly just one of a few that compared the ride to the prevailing conditions and noticed an anomoly compared to similar a/c.

I was not trying to compare a C172 to a B777 in a storm for example.

relax mate!

J:ok:

[Capn Bloggs]

how the 787 will come together
With lots of glue.

[2FarCanard]

J430,

By all means avoid the bloody things.

However, methinks that next time the price is right you will be back on one. Otherwise you truly will be a man/woman of your convictions.

[J430]

2FarCanard

For an aviation related username that is possibly the best I have seen so far!

Was booked at 4a.m. due wx spoiling my plans to fly myself. Price, not really but the times and certainly not having to pay a full economy or business class tempted me. Don't get me wrong they were not dangerous, in fact quite OK, but they do not feel as good as the B7XX types.

I even considered going ex YBCG on Australian, but couldn't!

If I could have burned up some of the thousands of QF FF points accumulated I would have, but you can never get a seat unless you book 12 months ahead, and recently had a lot of trouble doing that too!!!

Cheers J

[gaunty]

One has only had to have sat down the back of an all high density economy configured B707-320 series or DC8-63 (250 pax) without dividers in the monsoon or heavy turbulence to fully understand the term "aeroelastic". Concentrated the mind wonderfully.

The DC8 might have been the less so. :ok:

Dunno 'bout the Airbus, never sat down the back.:p The 330 seems a pretty solid ship.

[Flight Detent]

I agree with "18 Wheeler" 100%

When I first moved to Brisbane to fly for a company based near here, they sometimes had me fly as pax down to Sydney to operate out of there.

In those days, Ansett was still up and running, and was by far the preferred airline to travel with. Each and every time I flew to SYD, I flew AN.

My problem was, they operated A320s, so I had to time my flights to either travel by B737 or B767, whichever, both were (are) much more preferrable to the scarebus.

I am a professional aviator, and know quite a bit about the design concept and operating systems of the scarebus types, and I WILL NOT travel in any airbus unless absolutely there is no alternative, and then I'm not a good passenger, I hate it!

Unfortunately, QF are buying some of those A380s, which may force me to travel BNE to LAX via new Zealand or Japan, or, and I never thought I'd say this, via Air Pacific (at least they operate B747).

Cheers

[Capt. On Heat]

I'm only going if it's a Boeing.

[The Bunglerat]

Yes, we've all heard the cliches "If it ain't Boeing," "Scarebus," etc. Everyone's entitled to sing the praises of their favourite chariot - or criticize as the case may be.

Speaking as pax, I have no preference for either. I've heard a continuous annoying rumble when sitting 4 rows behind the overwing exit on the 737NG, and I've experienced the aforementioned rattles and shakes when paxing on the Bus.

At the end of the day, Boeing and Airbus both design machines to do a job, and it seems to me they do the job quite well. I feel safe in either, and I'm also quite satisfied that the very stringent requirements of FAA/JAA certification (not to mention nearly 20 years of proven operation) ensure that any such concerns would be unfounded.

However, I'm guessing that a good number of the wannabe's who love to tear shreds off the Airbus product, would do a backflip without a moment's hesitation if offered the opportunity to fill one of the seats up front. Considering some of the clapped out bugsmashers I've logged time in over the years, I'd be very happy with anything that burns Jet-A1 and gets me up in the flight levels!

[2FarCanard]

Ah yes.

The good old GA days.

I always get a bit nostalgic when i smell the wet mouldy carpet in the leaky aerobridge on rainy days.:{

[F/O Bloggs]

Forget about the other two rubbish aircraft, surely the 717 is the ducks nuts.

I would be interested in the feelings of the Jetstar crews wrt prefering to fly the a320 or the 717.;) ;)

[F111]

Forget A and B and go to F. The Fokker 100 is my pick;)

[Mr. Hat]

Baron v 310

Bonanza v 210