Customs procedure, through bags, MAN and LHR

[Westerman]

Thanks for all the useful postings from everyone in so many forums - it's a good site, and a credit to people who take the time to contribute. This is my first post.

Haven't done this for a while. Can one still transfer through LHR 'flight connections' after arriving from incoming international, onto domestic up to GLA, and does the through checked baggage still get transferred, to be collected in the 'domestic' customs hall at GLA? (In the domestic arrival hall, at GLA there's a screened area where 'through bags' have to be picked up.)

In fact, I'm travelling this next time through MAN. Looking at the MAN website there is no mention of through baggage handling. Will MAN forward baggage automatically onto an onward domestic sector, such as GLA? Or will l have to pick up my bags off the incoming intercontinental flight, and carry them to the other terminal for the flight up to GLA?

If no through baggage, are there any transfer desks in the MAN baggage halls where bags can immediately be dropped off for the next sector?

Regards, Westerman

[The_Banking_Scot]

Hi westerman,

It is ceetainly the case at GLA (&EDI) there is a separate bag reclaim belt in Domestic arrivals for "white tag bags" ie bags from a journey starting outside the EU ( have not seen a cusotms officer there).

I would imagine it would be similar at MAN.

Regards

TBS

[agent x]

Thru checking also depends on what type of tickets you have. If the tickets are seperate (one ticket issued for flight to MAN and another ticket for onward sector) then your bags wont be thru tagged and you will have to pick them up on arrival at MAN and walk to the check in area for your connecting airline. However if you are arriving into Terminal 2 it is quite a trek across to T1 + T3 via the rail link and the travelators are nearly always out of service.

If the ticket you have is a thru ticket then your bag will transfer automatically. It would be a good idea to go to the connecting airlines transfer desk - my guess is your travelling on BA or BD to GLA - to make sure that they have a record of your thru tagged bags in their system otherwise you wont get your bags in GLA. Just follow the signs for transfers when you get to MAN, easy really.

Agent x:ok:

[FFHKG]

My experience has always been that through checking is possible provided that all tickets are produced to the agent at the time that bags are initially checked-in - I have used a mixture of old-fashioned paper tickets and e-tickets and this has not presented a problems.

Naturally, this only applies where all flights are with full-service airlines -- LOCO's will not inter-line baggage even to their own onward flights, although it would appear that Air Berlin are going to do this at Stansted according to recent postings elsewhere on Pprune.

I should add that HM Customs do scrutise bags incoming bags at the domestic terminal at Manchester that originate from outside the EC. This is generally done"behind the scenes" rather than front of house - anything suspicious and you might just find that you bag becomes a centre of interest to a not so friendly Customs Officer - I can assure you that it does happen!

[Westerman]

Thanks - so MAN will transfer bags if they're checked through.

My query about customs procedure was not whether they would want to scutinise the bags - of course they will, moreover they'll probably do so both at MAN and at GLA - but whether customs procedures at MAN would, like their procedures at LHR, allow for this type of 'through' arrangement that we have spoken of, so that I don't have to recover the bags mid-journey.

Problems with the ticket agent are behind my posting. The reason I posted is that the ticket agent, instead of being willing to ticket the four sectors on one ticket (thus making it easier for the Asian check-in staff to through check the bags) wanted to tell me that you cannot through-check to UK regional airports because 'you have to go through customs at the first port of entry', and cited this as the reason they need not issue a 4 sector ticket, or even a paper ticket for the domestic sector.

This was, clearly, quite bad advice regarding transfer through LHR, but I was unsure about facilities at MAN. It's difficult enough just to get the flights you need, without also shouldering the burden of bringing agent staff up to speed on interline and HM customs procedures.

I did look on HMRC website for any 'official' statement of whether you need to 'clear customs at first port of entry' but I could not find any remark. Does anyone know of an official description of the customs procedure for journeys to regional UK destinations? I'd like to be able to refer the agent staff to the process. It's a very big business travel agency, so it's worth helping them to help us customers.

I'm very encouraged by the poster who mentioned that he/she had through-checked bags with separate tickets, both paper and electronic. My experience has been less fruitful - the check-in staff also sometimes seem to think they cannot, and a 4 sector ticket helps because the computers default to through-checking.

Thanks for the tip about the T2/T1 travelator trek at MAN. Presumably I can take a trolley on the trek if the bags are not checked through?

regards, Westerman

[EastMids]

I did look on HMRC website for any 'official' statement of whether you need to 'clear customs at first port of entry' but I could not find any remark.

Didn't look very hard then did you... Two minutes on the website found:

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageTravel_ShowContent&id=HMCE_PROD_010220&propertyType=document

See last two paragraphs...

Andy

[Westerman]

Sorry to have offended or disappointed you and everyone else. I did look at the HMRC site - I even searched with 'transfer' but the page didn't come up.

The page is signalled under the guidance:

" Information for travellers

Find out what you can bring into the UK without paying duty or VAT. "

which I imagine is why I assumed it didn't address through-checking procedures onto UK regional airports.

I'm grateful for the link. As I've said before, it's a great site, with many useful posts - yours especially for all of us who deal with staff unfamiliar with Customs procedures.

Thanks again everyone - apologies again that I seem to have wasted some of your time.

regards, Westerman

[ronleach]

Don't need to apologize, wester - it's a useful question. The website leaves something important unanswered:

"But in some cases we must clear both your hand luggage and hold baggage at the transfer airport. The airline will tell you when this is necessary."

In my experience, airlines will tell you this - they also tell you this when it isn't true and not even necessary, like they just guess instead.

1. How does the airline checking you in know which cases require clearance at the transfer airport? The check-in might not be with the airline that takes you to manchester - so how does HMRC inform them (they may not even have a UK office) which rules to apply? Perhaps through an IATA or SITA working group? Any notes?

2. What are the cases where through-checking is not possible and HMRC 'must clear both hand luggage and hold baggage'?

I looked at the site as well - no leaflets or releases etc to airlines advising for through checking to UK internal destinations. (see if someone else finds out from the site in even less than 2 mins!)

Come to think of it, none of the posts have shown any 'official' guidance that the OP's bags can be through-checked through manchester to glasgow, and don't need to be customs-cleared at manchester first. The HMRC site doesn't confirm it, either.

Ron

[agent x]

90% of airlines (and the percentage is increasing every year) nowadays, my airline included, adhere to the IATA ruling that passengers are not and will not be thru checked on seperate tickets be it paper to paper, paper to electronic. The one exception i know of is BA who will thru check on separate tickets as long as its BA to BA or BA to another Oneworld carrier.

The reason for no thru check on separate tickets is the cost of luggage transfer which is included in the price of a thru ticket. Separate tickets are cheaper yes but why should the airline transfer your bag to your next flight (approximate cost to an airline to do this per bag is £90) when you have only paid say £20 for your flight to LHR for example. It loses airlines thousands of pounds every year and makes obviously no financial business sense, especially if said bag goes missing at the transfer point. By thru checking on seperates the carrier who checked the bag thru initially takes responsibility for that bag, both finding and delivering the bag costs money.

At the end of the day you wouldn't go into a supermarket, buy a newspaper and expect the cashier to carry it to your car so you could take it home now would you, why should they?

It is becoming increasingly more difficult to thru check unless you have a thru ticket

The simple answer is if you want your bags to go thru...buy a thru ticket.

FFHKG is one who slipped past the net of the IATA thru check in ruling...happens once in a blue moon, so dont be encouraged that it will probably happen to you as well, it just wont happen. .:hmm:

Agent x:ok:

[Westerman]

Agent x, useful post.

I'm more than happy to comply with airlines' requirements. It's not the airline I have a problem with. My problem is that my ticket agent is saying:

"There's no point me doing this [single ticket] for you because you cannot through check to a UK domestic airport", in this case, transferring at MAN, for destination GLA, "because you have to go through customs at the first port of entry".

I and others on this thread seem to think she is wrong. I need evidence to give her, so that she does the right thing. I need to be able to show her, convince her, that bags can be through checked through MAN. By removing her 'external' objection, she has to think about how to ticket my journey properly. To convince her, I need to show her:

(a) That HMRC Manchester allow bags to be through-checked for customs clearance at the customs-clearance domestic hall at GLA, in the same manner that HMRC staff and procedures at LHR allow for this while transferring passengers

- so far no evidence, but suggestions from some posters that MAN does do this, but HMRC hint that capability is limited in some instances (but what or where, and how are the airlines told what is possible as yet unknown - thanks to Ron for pointing that out)

(b) That IATA rule you mention clearly suggests that bags CAN be checked through, subject to the appropriate ticketing arrangements - could you post a link to the IATA ruling, please, or perhaps quote its text?


I think you can help on this one, because I sense you have genuine knowledge of how these things work. I'd be very grateful if you can confirm that MAN will allow bags through to GLA for clearance, and if will you quote, or paste a link to, the IATA ruling about conditions for through baggage?

And if it all fails, do you know whether I can take a trolley on the travelator trek through MAN?

regards, Westerman

[agent x]

Westerman, I don't think your travel agent knows what they are talking about! They should be able to issue you with a thru ticket regardless of what the customs procedure is. Even if you have to clear customs at the first point, the USA being the prime example of this procedure, you can still have a thru ticket!

Even so on an international to uk domestic journey the bags CAN be labelled thru to the final point on a thru tkt that your agent can issue. You clear your actual bag thru customs at the final point yours being GLA. When you transfer at MAN your connecting airline will direct you to a customs point within the transfer area but you dont pick up your bag as it will be making its own way to your connecting flight to GLA. Basically when connecting onto a flight within the EU your bag clears customs at the final point. If you are arriving from within the EU then your bagtag will have 2 paralel green stripes running down the outside edge. Where as if you come from outside the EU you bagtag will be plain white. This is how customs in GLA will differentiate who has come in from where in the world and priorotise it from there.

Feel free to PM me!

Agent x:ok:

[agent x]

Taken from Passenger Air Tariff General Rules July 2005

Baggage can only be accepted at the passenger handling counters on the day the passenger travels and the passenger ticket must be submitted at the same time. Baggage will be registered and checked through to:

- the first stopover point.
- the point at which the passenger wishes to take possession of all or part of his checked baggage.
- the point to which transportation has been confirmed or has already been requested with continuous connection.
- a connecting point where transfer from one airport to another is necessary and where the passenger is required to take possesion of his baggage.
- the final destination specified in the ticket including any tickets issued in conjunction therewith. Conjunction tickets must have the same form code and be issued initially in numeric sequence.

Hope this helps Westerman. In any case your travel agent should have a copy of the Passenger Air Tariff General Rules so if she has a look at 3.1.2 the answer is as plain as day!

Hope this helps u in your quest for a thru tkt and thru ckin Westerman.

Agent x:ok:

[Westerman]

Agent x, excellent - I'm much obliged. Hope this hasn't spoiled your Sunday, digging around in the manuals, but it's helped a lot.

Hopefully the post will help others. A wider awareness of what airlines are expected to do will help everyone understand what can be done. I'll take it up with the ticket agent tomorrow.

it's a reflection of the quality of the forums, too - there's a lot of expertise on these boards, a credit to those who take the time. Thanks again for a useful post.


regards Westerman

[zed3]

Westerman..... You can take a trolley with you on the great trek as long as you use the lifts from arrivals to the connection tubes .