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View Full Version : Boat...or is it a ship? over to you TD


Loose rivets
30th Oct 2005, 04:19
One has had it variously explained that a ship is

A/ a vessel over one hundred tonnes

B/ a vessel capable of shipping another vessel...I suppose like large lifeboats etc.

Or is it C/?:confused:

ORAC
30th Oct 2005, 04:32
Technically, a ship is a square-rigged craft with at least three masts, and a boat isn't. With regard to motorized craft, a ship is a large vessel intended for oceangoing or at least deep-water transport, and a boat is anything else.

Informally, ships have to be big enough to carry boats, and boats have to be small enough to be carried by ships.

There are exceptions, fishing craft, even if ocean going vessels, are normally referred to as boats - and submarines are always boats......

Bern Oulli
30th Oct 2005, 06:33
and submarines are always boats......

Well, quite. When did you last see a submarine with lifeboats dangling from the davits?

I had a boat, all 28feet of her, but she carried a dinghy. Did that make her a ship, by definition?

Papa Charlie
30th Oct 2005, 06:37
Then of course the ones with wings on are flying boats not flying ships... ;)

Caslance
30th Oct 2005, 06:46
What about the Flying Sub in "Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea"?

Was that a boat or a 'plane? :confused:

ORAC
30th Oct 2005, 07:13
Oh yes they can Bern Oulli up to 4 of them..... ASDS (http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/cno/n87/usw/issue_14/asds.html) http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/cno/n87/usw/issue_14/images/ASDSFEE.gif

GROUNDHOG
30th Oct 2005, 08:01
And why are superyachts called yachts when they don't have any sails? Are they actually little shipssince most carry one or more speedboats, helicopters etc?

Oh and why don't they get out of my way when I am sailing ( motor gives way to sail unless etc...) and insist in powering past my little boat about six feet away and at twenty knots spilling my drink in the process.!

tony draper
30th Oct 2005, 08:24
Mr ORAC seems to have the rught of it,all I know is if one had went into the Shipping Fedreration on the Quayside(the Pool)and said
"Mister I wanna runaway to sea, can I go on one of yer boats "?
Yer wudda been beaten about the head ,prolly raped and flung out into King street.
We had a Submarine that carried a Airyplane,one presumes in a waterproof hanger, one of the M class, one does believe, there were three of them, and they all sank.
:cool:

SET 18
30th Oct 2005, 08:25
I was once given the "definitive" answer to this by a sailor. Don't quote me if it is nonsense.

Apparently, a boat will always angle into a turn, whereas a ship always angles out! He said that that was the real definition, and would apply in all instances.

Does this make sense ORAC?

ORAC
30th Oct 2005, 08:28
originally with guns Mr D, and converted to airyplanes. All sank because they either forgot to put the bungs in the guns, or left the hangar door open......

tony draper
30th Oct 2005, 08:39
One of them had a 12 inch gun tother had the airyplane and the third had a swimming pool one thinkS Mr ORAC, the one with the huge gun was found just recently.
:cool:

BOFH
30th Oct 2005, 08:39
Oh and why don't they get out of my way when I am sailing ( motor gives way to sail unless etc...) and insist in powering past my little boat about six feet away and at twenty knots spilling my drink in the process.!

Groundhog, by and large, stinkboat drivers (they are not sailors) are the scum of the sea. Despite many pleas, my chandlery has been unable to acquire the torpedoes I have ordered.

As for your drink, decant it into a cyclist's water canteen. Works a treat if you are on a beat.

BOFH

tony draper
30th Oct 2005, 09:35
Remember sailing up through the St Lawrence seaway in a large cargo vessel through a place called thousand Islands,very restricted seaway, hundreds of the little feckers skittling about.
Captain,was a large Jockistani chap bellowing through the bull horn,
"Gerroot ma way ya wee feckers or will run yers doon the noo"
:rolleyes:

Loki
30th Oct 2005, 10:13
I think Orac almost has it right; a ship has to be a sailing vessel of three masts, however, they must all be square rigged. For example, a three masted vessel which is only square rigged on the fore and main masts....the mizzen being entirely fore and aft rigged would be a barque. A two masted square rigger would be a brig etc, etc.

airship
30th Oct 2005, 11:30
Boats would not have inspired Henry Wadsworth Longfellow to write:

Ships that pass in the night, and speak each other in passing, only a signal shown, and a distant voice in the darkness; So on the ocean of life, we pass and speak one another, only a look and a voice, then darkness again and a silence.

tony draper
30th Oct 2005, 11:46
Ships are for Business, boats are for pleasure.

Dirty British coaster with a salt-caked smoke-stack
Butting through the Channel in the mad March days,
With a cargo of Tyne coal,
Road-rail, pig-lead,
Firewood, iron-ware, and cheap tin toys.
:rolleyes:
Says it all really.

When Drapes learned that one is sure the last phrase read, Cheap tin trays.
:confused:

Heres a proper ship,spent a year of me youth on that there vessel,ah!happy days.
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=http://www.merchant-navy.net/Images/Thirlby.JPG&imgrefurl=http://www.merchant-navy.net/Pictures/thirlby.html&h=400&w=736&sz=60&tbnid=xBwR8ty7BKwJ:&tbnh=75&tbnw=139&hl=en&start=1&prev=/images%3Fq%3DMV%2BThirlby%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26c lient%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official_s%26sa%3DG

airship
30th Oct 2005, 11:55
Couldn't see a swimmin' pool on the Thirlby, Mr. Drapes. Indoor one :confused:

tony draper
30th Oct 2005, 12:50
The swimming pool was under that awning thing on the aft accomodation,we had to empty the bloody thing every time we loaded cargo,otherwise twas a bugger to get into trim,we filled it up again once we was at sea,held quite a few tons of water yer see.
Only ship I was ever one that was Air Conditioned and had a pool,luvly ship she were.
:cool:

Wyler
30th Oct 2005, 12:58
My understanding is that a ship has at least three decks above the waterline. Everything else is a boat.

Onan the Clumsy
30th Oct 2005, 12:58
For example, a three masted vessel which is only square rigged on the fore and main masts....the mizzen being entirely fore and aft rigged would be a barque I heard they're quite difficult to sail,. Much worse than their one masted cousins, which are of course known as a byte

airship
30th Oct 2005, 13:02
My understanding is that a ship has at least three dicks. All of whom eagerly await the next port of call. Everything else is inconsequential. :O

GROUNDHOG
30th Oct 2005, 17:55
Saw a small yacht of Falmouth today in a SW7 and that had one dick on it as well... fortunately a fast orange boat was on hand and managed to get alongside, the latter had big letters painted on and it wasn't easyjet more like RNL...something.

Some people!!!!!

G-CPTN
30th Oct 2005, 18:07
>Heres a proper ship,spent a year of me youth on that there vessel,ah!happy days.
http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?i...cial_s%26sa%3DG

What happened in 1981?

Loose rivets
30th Oct 2005, 18:14
"Gerroot ma way ya wee feckers or will run yers doon the noo"

See, I told you Drapes could speak Jockistani.



As for the original question, I'm quite clear now.


All three decks that are above water on a ship, tilt outwards in the turn while someone is busy reefing its square sails and shipping its boats. Hangers, swimming pools and large guns are obviously optional extras.

Kah! Should have known that.:hmm:

tony draper
30th Oct 2005, 18:33
She was probably scrapped in 1981, atually quite a long life for a Tanker,the old girl is prolly razor blades now.
:{
,
Co-incidently was talking to a Complete stranger in me park once re the merits of the Jack Russel Terrier,the conversation drifted as it does, and it turned out he had sailed on her in the late seventies.
:cool:

BlueEagle
30th Oct 2005, 22:43
Talking to a RN submariner in a pub once and he said there were only two types of sailing vessel, they were submarines and targets!

G-CPTN
30th Oct 2005, 23:07
>was talking to a Complete stranger in me park once re the merits of the Jack Russel Terrier,the conversation drifted as it does, and it turned out he had sailed on her in the late seventies.

Was the Jack Russel Terrier a boat or a ship?

Fg Off Max Stout
30th Oct 2005, 23:43
As a fishhead mate told me:
Boats roll into a turn.
Ships roll out of a turn.
Set18 is right.

pigboat
31st Oct 2005, 00:53
Two quick questions Tony. Have you ever heard of the bulk carrier MV Monksgarth, and do you know what happened to her?

Send Clowns
31st Oct 2005, 01:20
A boat has only one continuous deck above the waterline, a ship more than one. Hence a submarine is a boat, as despite the multiple decks only the weather deck is above the waterline (well, when it is surfaced!). The definition was given to us in the RN, and only has exceptions are when something that is neither a ship nor a submarine is commissioned: HMS GLEANER is still Her Majesty's Ship, despite her single deck. HMS DARTMOUTH is still a ship, despite being made of brick and on top of a steep hill!

Note this doesn't affect subs as they are titled HMS but it stands for "Her Majesty's Submarine".

It is true that many boats roll into a turn, but not all do. A picket boat, a lumbering 13-m craft used to train RN officers to handle a vessel with twin screws, certainly heals out of a turn. All depends on weight, C of G and forces from the rudder (or screw for an outboard) compared to centrifugal effect.

Blacksheep
31st Oct 2005, 01:28
Boats roll into a turn. Ships roll out of a turn.
Right. So, trim error or not, my fifteen foot stinkyboat with the forty horse Mercury on the back was a ship.

... and therefore wearing the double-breasted blazer with the four gold rings and the peaked cap with scrambled egg wasn't "a bit over the top" as certain people in Changi Yacht Club alleged? :}

Actually I was almost certain it had something to do with having at least one full length deck, running from bow to stern above the waterline.

Lock n' Load
31st Oct 2005, 05:47
According to the Admiralty, a vessel with a waterline length over 45 feet is a ship.

tony draper
31st Oct 2005, 08:06
Cant say I know the vessel Mr pigboat hardly suprising, remember we had more Merchant Ships than one could shake a stick at at one time however here is a picky of her.

http://www.merchant-navy.net/Pictures/monksgarth.html

Loose rivets
29th Apr 2006, 17:31
My thread (puffs up chest) of some time ago. It all got very silly.:}


http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=196329&highlight=ship+boat