Interesting Landing Video [Archive]

30th Oct 2005, 07:16

Yes he is!!! Ask anyone at his home station. I hadn't seen that video before; how on earth can it be described as 'good airmanship' to carry on the display without shutting down and checking the aircraft?
And another thing! Just how stupid does that six-wheeled thing look? It's a joke isn't it?

zic

30th Oct 2005, 07:40

Can't see what the fuss is all about - a controlled approach and landing, all within the aircraft's capabilitites and release to service onto a grass strip, and it got a bit bogged - occupational hazard as a batttlefield helicopter.

Concur with the majority of posters that our hero should have shut down and had a look for any damage before continuing. Poor show for an A2 QHI !!!

Zic

Green Flash

30th Oct 2005, 09:08

MG

As regards the vehicle (its a John Deere Gator, 700cc Kawasaki vee twin, 6x4), well, it was a role demo! It would be one thing to steam about the sky with a Gator in the back and another to lug a Landrover around. The spams have loads of them, quite a neat piece of kit.:cool:

Mind you, I think I would have taken the chance to check the undercart whilst the Gator was doing it's thing.:uhoh:

He got away with it. We live and learn.

Twinact

30th Oct 2005, 09:20

How about not allowing the 6 wheeled thing off until U/C check carried out? Surely there was danger of the oleo collapsing during the vehicle offload?

Green Flash

30th Oct 2005, 09:21

Yes, fair call.

Thud_and_Blunder

30th Oct 2005, 11:15

Interesting to note the name given at the beginning of the commentary - it'll be familiar to many. As for shutting down halfway through a display to carry out a check - that's exactly what the CH53G crew did at Middle Wallop during their role demo (1986) after the stinger dug a furrow. No loss of face, no heckling from the pilots' tents, just a realisation that when things go rwong you do something about it.

Back to the vid anyone notice the big clump of mud falling to the ground (with about 2':56" left to run) as the aircraft passed through the overhead?

Oh, and anyone who thinks a heli display can't be interesting (2s in, perhaps) should try and get access to a vid of Charlie Zimmerman's Bo105 display. That'll be the one that won the Greenham Common mil aerobatic display trophy in 1977...

Spanish Waltzer

30th Oct 2005, 12:09

I think many of you have mis-interpreted MG's

Just how stupid does that six-wheeled thing look? It's a joke isn't it?

He wasn't referring to the Gator.......;)

Bright-Ling

30th Oct 2005, 16:56

Aggh the Gator - last seen in combat with said crew trying to drive it into the Chalet area at RIAT.

As there was no showground driving permit, the said Sqn Ldr was telling the Oik that he had an important appointment to attend. (complete with fellow aircrew and techies)

Step up Senior take-no-s h 1 t Warrant Officer with large 'at and pacestick telling crew they ARE NOT allowed in and that it should not be on the showground.

Certainly made all of us in the Breitling terrace smile to see the RAF being told to poke off by the Army! (and MB and crew getting off their toy!!) :)

If only his inter-personal skills were as good as his superb flying.

VigilantPilot

31st Oct 2005, 13:23

I didn't realise how massive a helicopter Merlin is. As it does the special JCB manoeuvre, it dwarfs the spitfire infront of it.

Twinact

31st Oct 2005, 17:42

its a John Deere Gator, 700cc Kawasaki vee twin, 6x4

So the six wheeled thing is actually a motorbike in drag?

Conan the Librarian

31st Oct 2005, 19:12

I suppose there is a good link here, in that the Gator was just big enough to pick up a very much departed Chinook landing gear leg and wheel.... Remember Abingdon?

Conan

XWalterDriver

31st Oct 2005, 19:14

If only his inter-personal skills were as good as his superb flying.

Airmanship is another matter though isn't it! The rear wheels were sinking in on the second landing and I wonder if the guy driving the buggy knew how close he was to getting a short, sharp, terminal headache!

As for possible damage to the rotor head, nose-wheel mounting frame, cockpit structure, oleo, hydraulics etc...........

G-KEST

31st Oct 2005, 21:10

It might get a mention at the DASC post season displays symposium at Coningsby on Tuesday/Wednesday 1/2 November. We shall see.
Cheers,
Trapper 69
:ok:

[email protected]

1st Nov 2005, 17:07

OOOhhh oooohhh...50 degrees nose down and some wingovers - bring back the Wessex, it would have done a better display.

XWalterDriver

1st Nov 2005, 18:17

Couldn't agree more!:ok:

Fox3snapshot

1st Nov 2005, 18:22

Just out of interest sake (and a possible defence of the display pilots actions) is there any chance that the extent of the nosewheel digging in may not have been readily apparent and that it may have been perceived as a heavy oleo compression and it wasn't till after the departure, undercarriage retraction and return to the paddock that the visual evidence may have been a little more alarming and warranted further concern.

It would have made sense then perhaps to undergo inspection but as everything had functioned normally after there first departure it was decided to press get home and then get it sorted.

Just a thought....:rolleyes:

diginagain

1st Nov 2005, 18:48

He might equally have pulled up, hover-taxied backwards a few metres and taken a look at the ground.

Or, a quick glance at the landing site on his next fly-by, just to see if the Earth really had just opened up and nearly swallowed him

Tigs2

1st Nov 2005, 19:24

Crab and XWalter
Agreed unless perhaps you were down wind:D :D

Two's in

1st Nov 2005, 19:58

Thud and Blunder, I'm sure that Charlie Zimmerman's Bo105 display in 1977 was exciting, but most of them (including this one) are not, especially from the crowd line. As helo pilots, we all appreciate the superb flying techniques and skills that go into these displays, but Joe Public usually doesn't. Anyway, in the meantime does this mean we have to wait another 28 years for the next interesting helo display?

The Helpful Stacker

2nd Nov 2005, 07:00

I noticed this topic on Arrse the other day and was surprised by how many 'holier than thou' attitudes our Army brethren had about this issue. Good to see they are of a similar level on here too.

Having worked on many boggy FARP's during my 6 years with the UK's premier (Stafford based) tactical fuels element I have personally seen many helicopters 'sink in' on exercises and ops yet fly away without any under carriage checks.

The only time I can remember an a/c shutting down to check its under carriage after landing on boggy ground it was a Chinook in that most boggy of locations, Wet Freugh.

Yes I'm aware that these days 'pushonitis' is supposed to be stamped out but even a highly trained pilot is still just human at the end of the day and it happens. Luckily in this case it seems he got away with it, no doubt returned to Wallingford Aerodrome for a chat without biscuits from someone importantish and is now a little wiser.

Of course I realise being a humble stacker places my overall knowledge on this subject (when compared to the many old and bold frequenting this site) at a premium but I have a few spare tuppence's and felt generous today.

hairyclameater

2nd Nov 2005, 12:04

"Thud and Blunder, I'm sure that Charlie Zimmerman's Bo105 display in 1977 was exciting, but most of them (including this one) are not, especially from the crowd line. As helo pilots, we all appreciate the superb flying techniques and skills that go into these displays, but Joe Public usually doesn't. Anyway, in the meantime does this mean we have to wait another 28 years for the next interesting helo display?"

Got to disagree there, with ever increasing distance from crowd line and min altitudes for fixed wing displays, the sight and sound of a big chopper in yer face (ooh er missus) is a definite plus for the screaming hordes, especially at a smaller venue. Merlin is good but wokka is better and the Army Lynx looping and sumersaulting!!? - Its good entertainment.

Charlie Z also won in '83 & '85, a superb display but I'm sure it was lost to the many thousands at IAT with its 10000' crowd line and the tiny size of the '105.

After watching the vid , I now realise what that probe is for - to stop it nosing over- so much for AAR!;)

oldbeefer

2nd Nov 2005, 12:07

Crab - like the wingovers at Bishop's court?

Twinact

2nd Nov 2005, 15:30

Stacker,

Do you mean this site?

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=24924.html

Always worth getting the brown opinion with their long tradition of aviation.

Oldbeefer,

Wingovers at Bishops Court = Promotion :O

diginagain

2nd Nov 2005, 20:30

Always glad to help out with the inter-service communication.

You wouldn't want the other interested parties to miss out, would you?

:ok:

oldbeefer

2nd Nov 2005, 20:37

Twinact - true. Never bent an aircraft - never got promoted. Hey Ho !

Plasticab

2nd Nov 2005, 21:13

I bet the incident report made an interesting read.....but then(allegedly) there wasn't one.

Was the 'display' an auth'd one? Who was in the left seat? Answers will probably see this one 'swept' under the carpet, or will the driver fall on his sword to take the heat off someone else?

It is a rumour network after all..........

AllTrimDoubt

3rd Nov 2005, 06:50

Surely the site recce would have looked at the condition of the landing area? (being grass an'all...)

There was a site recce, wasn't there?

:E :E

Aeronut

3rd Nov 2005, 09:32

I too thought helo displays a bit dull until I saw Dennis Kenyon at North Weald. OMG!

Tigs2

3rd Nov 2005, 13:59

AllTrimDoubt

Really no need for a site recce.

Green Flash

3rd Nov 2005, 14:13

ATD

I believe the commentator mentions that this was the 15th full size aircraft to visit the site. Granted, they might have all been Cessna's and the like but maybe the crew had checked and were aware of this. The might have assumed that the surface was OK. Not defending them, just an observation. How much does a Merlin weigh? (and a Cessna, for that matter?).

XWalterDriver

3rd Nov 2005, 14:58

Tigs2: yes, it could be quite entertaining in a downwind posture! Hopefully, the wind was always at the forefront of 'the plan' for the display!

Crab and oldbeefer: now, there is a story! Did you hear about the certificate that was awarded a few years down the line to certify that wing-overs were flown safely by a certain party?

As for the ploughing - I would imagine the machine would have been around 12 tons for the display so any soft ground would have been assaulted in style. It if had just sunk, I suspect all would have been well, but the whole aircraft rotated around the nose wheel to the point where the rear gear was well off the ground. The forces on the oleo would have been very high.

[email protected]

3rd Nov 2005, 16:14

Old Beefer - yes it was OK at Bishops Court, you just had to pretend you had seen a suspicious vehicle which caused you to pork the wingover and fly into the ground!

Xwalter - no, not heard about the certificate - must have been to protect soemones blossoming career!

MightyGem

4th Nov 2005, 10:06

Always worth getting the brown opinion with their long tradition of aviation
Longer than the RAF's anyway.

Sorry, couldn't resist it. :rolleyes:

The Helpful Stacker

4th Nov 2005, 12:52

Good point.:rolleyes:

Still, its wasn't as if it were the 'proper' Army who first used aircraft, just the Royal (Bodgit and Scarper) Engineers.....;)

MightyGem

4th Nov 2005, 12:58

...I'm also an ex-Sapper. ;)

The Helpful Stacker

4th Nov 2005, 13:48

Failed REME?

;)

(Only kidding, I've worked with the 516STRE guys a fair bit and I know you lot are a good bunch.)

Nantucket Sleighride

4th Nov 2005, 14:30

someone mentioned the size of the Merlin in comparison to the Spit in the foreground, the spit is an RC model...:}

VigilantPilot

4th Nov 2005, 14:42

It wont let me post just 'waahhh'.

:D

sprucemoose

4th Nov 2005, 14:42

How wrong can one website name be? "rcfun" indeed...

Is it just me, or is the guy on the quadbike-thing rubbing his head as he moves away from the Merlin?

Optimism points also go to the people responsible for the Concorde in Virgin markings you see right near the end of the film!

MightyGem

4th Nov 2005, 15:07

Failed REME?
Royal
Engineers
Minus
Education. :}

Twinact

6th Nov 2005, 15:47

sprucemoose,

I think he's holding his toupee against the intense Merlin downwash!

:D

rolandpull

7th Nov 2005, 00:42

Wot no movers involved?I don't belieeeeeve it!

r supwoods

7th Nov 2005, 19:26

Another intersting landing ....

http://www.dcfp.navy.mil/mc/video/F-18landing.mpg

Excaliber

10th Nov 2005, 16:00

What exactly is the time limit on rendering an incident signal? :O

Compressorstall

19th Nov 2005, 18:35

Did anyone actually answer Plasticab's question?

"I bet the incident report made an interesting read.....but then(allegedly) there wasn't one.

Was the 'display' an auth'd one? Who was in the left seat? Answers will probably see this one 'swept' under the carpet, or will the driver fall on his sword to take the heat off someone else?

It is a rumour network after all.........."

Always_broken_in_wilts

20th Nov 2005, 00:59

For those SH folks that remember the Bitburg 7 and the Poland 5 I am sure will agree that if any skullduggery went on then some promotion seeking bastard Flt lt, cheers Dickie, will dob the unfortunate miscreant in:sad:

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

Thud_and_Blunder

20th Nov 2005, 07:31

ABIW,

Interesting sentiment. I was the Chinook captain who handed over the Bitburg task to the crew involved in the occurrences there. I was also the one "dobbed" to go down to the Falklands 3 days before Christmas to take over from the pilot who had been involved in the shenanigans - if you remember, he was stopped in the departure lounge at Brize and told to go back to Germany to participate in the investigation. So you think the promotion-seeking Flt Lt was wrong, do you?

Well, I don't. A measure of how naive I can be is that when SKPR told me the reason for the investigation it took me 2-3 days to be convinced there was a case. I had no idea that people I worked alongside (the 2 crews on the second half of the Sandhurst task) were capable of being so stupid. Despite the fact that I suffered an additional short-notice S Atlantic summer (with the pilot of the Merlin as Sqn Cdr - a story for another time, perhaps) I am grateful to all whistle-blowers for helping rid us of unpredictable, unstable operators. "Unfortunate miscreant"? Yeah, right...

Different form of alleged-misdeed from the one being discussed in this video, though. At least MB didn't deliberately set out to flout significant numbers of rules or operate in a manner contrary to the spirit of the organisation.

Twinact

20th Nov 2005, 07:49

Thanks T and B,

I can see this thread taking a completely different direction now as ppl clamour to find out what the Bitburg 7 and the Poland 5 actually did.

:rolleyes:

FJJP

20th Nov 2005, 12:49

So what did happen?

Compressorstall

20th Nov 2005, 15:34

I thought all Plasticab was after was some open-ness? It's only when you say nothing that people think you have something to hide...

Is there something hidden?

EnnArr

22nd Nov 2005, 08:48

Can anyone tell me what has happened to the link to the display video? It seems to have disappeared from here and the RCFun website link wont play either.........a senior officer conspiracy perhaps? Surely not a cover up?

Hmmmmmmmmm ;)

Compressorstall

22nd Nov 2005, 19:01

It could be that they didn't like us posting a link to their site...or it could be a cover-up?? Suggestions please.

wg13_dummy

22nd Nov 2005, 19:39

So what did happen?

You had to be there to appreciate it. ;)

:mad:

EnnArr

23rd Nov 2005, 16:15

........and it all went quiet.......I knew it, its a cover up! Involve a couple of senior officers, no incident signal, add in some video footage, a bit of commentry naming names and what have you got?

What a great example to set our young, impressionable aircrew.....we'll be pressing on regardless! (sung badly)

Anyone who can find the footage, please get it back on here for our amusement. I thank you.

:ok:

Bright-Ling

23rd Nov 2005, 17:43

I have the whole long version (6:36s......zzzzzzzzzzz!!) - and have just edited out a 1.3mb 38 second clip of the juicy bit if anyone wants to host it.

Compressorstall

23rd Nov 2005, 20:01

If nothing else, it might be a good example for the Flying Supervisors' Course.

So wg 13 - which seat were you?

zic

24th Nov 2005, 08:18

Given the strength of feeling why doesn't someone put in a CONDOR or whatever they are called in the new purple era since the demise of IFS.

Still v poor show from an A2 QHI and allegedly his Boss :\

Compressorstall

27th Nov 2005, 09:30

Has anyone got the video saved - it has some use for a brief?

Twinact

27th Nov 2005, 10:14

Click your right button on the link and select 'save target as'.

:p

RCFun.co.uk

30th Nov 2005, 10:40

Hi Guys,
The video was filmed by me. The site of origin of Merlin video[/URL] is mine.
I am sorry to disappoint those of you with a vivid imagination but there was no cover up or conspiracy. The simple facts are my bandwidth usage went from 300mb a day to 8gig a day once you guys found it. which meant that I was getting bills for over £50 a month for going over the download quota on my site.
I had to change several things and upgrade my site which is why the video disappeared for a while.. It is there now but i may have to remove it again as it looks like i may be getting another large bill due to the amount of interest in it. If any of you have a bit of webspace and would like to host the video please let me know otherwise I may have to take it off for good.
I have been in touch with the PR officer for the team (Gareth) and the video does not appear to have caused any problems ...

I dont want to take the video off if I can help it, so in the meantime I would like to ask that if you link to my site please use
WWW.RCFUN.CO.UK (http://www.rcfun.co.uk)
There is a video list or people can go through the gallery on page 9.

just a quickie for Bright-ling I have the whole long version (6:36s......zzzzzzzzzzz!!) - and have just edited out a 1.3mb 38 second clip of the juicy bit if anyone wants to host it. The video does have copyright :)

So if the video disappears again you'll know it is not a cover up nor conspiracy or anything else from the brass .. Its my wallet saying ouch.. enough is enough lol
Later guys :)

Bright-Ling

30th Nov 2005, 11:17

tutt tutt - advertising on this forum is banned, is it not.

Shame on you

Oh- and I left the copyright on it

B-L

P.S. If we are advertising websites My fave spotters site is here (http://www.ba.com)

RCFun.co.uk

30th Nov 2005, 12:28

The comment was made "tongue in cheek" :O and meant no offence hence the smiley.. I have read it again and it can be taken as me being stroppy. Honestly though, if i was that upset about it I would have contacted you personally not publicly..
This sort of stuff is done all the time and if that isnt acceptable by me or anyone else posting vids then its best we dont post them :) .. My only real gripe was the cost of the bandwidth usage due to hotlinking instead of going through the site..
I apologise if the comment came across as me having a dig at you..

The advertising hmm.
When pprune allow hotlinking to my copyrighted files, ignore my e-mails, use bandwidth I pay for, encouraging people to this forum I feel One link to my site isnt too much to ask..

Again I apologise
For anyone who is not sure what "Hotlinking" is please follow this link it is very informative All about hotiinking and bandwidth theft (http://altlab.com/hotlinking.html)
It is hard to type in text and not have it misread as being stroppy
This is not a stroppy post :ok:

Take Care All :)

Bright-Ling

30th Nov 2005, 12:55

I for one appreciate your efforts - but I too host videos and 1000s of photographs for all to see. I am now of the opinion that if I don't want anyone to steal the pics I won't post them.

I have had loads of messgaes from mod's about me advertising my websites.... that's all! (let alone pedalling an individual DVD!!)

Anyway - back to the topic....and yr great vid. Thanks for sharing it.:cool:

B-L