Compensation for delay, BA longhaul

[Agaricus bisporus]

Pax boarded USA E Coast for LHR. Disembarked later due fuel leak. Offered hotac, and pax in question was offered flight home just over 24hrs later from different airport & arrived home 25+hrs late causing major hassles, work etc.

BA have supplied details of times etc stating flight was "delayed" rather than canx (surely mere semantics after 24hrs plus?) and suggesting this is needed for an "insurance claim".

Why should insurance have to pay for a BA delay?

BA website is suitably unclear on detail of compensation, and although it mentions long delays (as opposed to cancellations) in the headings it seems to ignore them in the text.

Can anyone make sense of this? Anyone been here before?

Of course I will be onto BA Customer Services, I'd just like some ammunition from others' experiences first!

[san diego]

There is widespread confusion over compensation for delays. The new EU rules apply for inbound flights on EU carriers but they do not require any compensation for delays and this clearly was a genuine delay caused by a technical problem that you would not want to fly with.

The rules only require airlines to look after customers, including overnight accommodation, which was provided in this case and the opportunity to contact home or work. As far as I can see the airline has done all it is legally required to do, whether it sees fit to offer anything else is entirely up to the airline itself.

[Techman]

Have a look here (http://europa.eu.int/comm/transport/air/rights/info_en.htm). There is more to it than what san diego says.

[Globaliser]

Although I believe that san diego has summarised the basic position very well.

The risk of a delay is inevitable in long-distance travel, whether by air or otherwise. Delays always have consequences.

So who should assume those risks? The system that we have is that insurers pick up those risks for people who are prepared to pay the premiums; those who don't want to pay insurance premiums self-insure those risks.

And there are good policy reasons behind not requiring airlines to insure those risks. If airlines had to pay out of their own pockets, it would put them in a position where they have a conflict of interest, giving them a greater incentive to dispatch faulty or even unsafe aircraft. No, thank you - I'll pay my insurance premiums.

[bealine]

This fuel leak was obviously something that was beyond the normal control of the airline, therefore beyond hotac and refreshments, BA is not obliged to do anything further. (And, before you go on about "adequate maintenance" - BA's aircraft are maintained well over and above the standards laid down by the airframe manufacturer!)

That having been said, if the inconvenience to you personally was considerable (eg you lost the first day of your holiday (vacation) or incurred additional costs at your destination) then BA Customer Relations are usually pretty good about treating each case on its own merits!

As far as the EC charter is concerned, BA has always behaved in accordance with it. However, the charter itself is being disputed and a few airlines are refusing to shell out until the appeal has been heard! So, BA aside, don't rely too heavily on the EC Charter - it's bo77ocks!!!

[Techman]

Agaricus bisporus

Despite the effective indoctrination by some airlines, you can in fact claim compensation for damages caused by delays. As larges corporations know that most people won't take matters further than the first refusal, they will do so. That, however, does not make them right.

As you have noticed, creating confusion and incertainty is a very effective way of getting away with not doing what you are supposed to.

Until someone goes to court that is , unfortunately, the way it is.

[SLF3]

Delayed 24 hours due to an engine fire and emergency evacuation in Houston. Needed a flight to Copenhagen from London to sort out the resulting mess. Flight was booked and paid for (on BA) by my company while I was still on the ground in Houston. BA would not reimburse my company the cost of the flight, refused any compensation whatsoever. Travelling J class on a Gold Card.

The emergency was handled superbly, and BA in the States were excellent. Customer Relations took back all the goodwill gained and more.

I 'fined' BA two J class long haul flights to the Far East, and went CX instead. Don't get mad, get even!

[ManAtTheBack]

Globaliser

You go into an expensive restaurant and are served a microwave reheated instant meal which contains the ingredients described on the menu.

Do you

a) complain and ask for a refund/compensation

b) be glad you took out insurance against poor quality meals in restaurants and contact your insurer

c) do nothing?

[Final 3 Greens]

Manatheback

Sorry, but your analogy doesn't compare.

In an expensive restaurant, assuming that you had complained and got no joy and you didn't wish to go there again, you would offer to pay what you thought the meal was worth.

Then you would tell the restaurant to sue you for the balance in a civil action, whereupon you will counterclaim compensation, because, in your opinion, the food was not worth the money.

Then you let the restaurant owners know that you will report the facts to the local newspapers. If they have any commercial sense, the matter ends there.

However, air travel is a completely different situation and I tend to agree with Globaliser's view.

[slim_slag]

Air travel is only different because you have to pay up front. If you paid after you had picked your baggage up at the destination there would be a lot of people withholding money and telling the airline to come after them in court.

I take out insurance to cover me in the event of my negligence, not the company supplying me. I think that is the gist of manintheback's post.

As for what would Globaliser do? I suspect it would depend on the sign outside the restaurant, he would give Chez BA different treatment from Chez O'Leary :). Funny, as if you look at the terms and conditions of both airlines there isn't much difference when it comes to delay/cancellation - in fact FR kicks in 2 hours earlier than BA.

Agaricus bisporus, BARemedies for Delays (http://www.britishairways.com/travel/genconcarr1/public/en_gb#9b), and Liabilties for damages caused by delay (http://www.britishairways.com/travel/genconcarr1/public/en_gb#15f). So BA are not immune from being sued, they just have to prove they couldn't do anything about it, which is surely exactly the same if you sue a restaurant for not providing you with a hot meal once they had taken your reservation (if, for instance, the electricity failed)

[Final 3 Greens]

Hi Slim

Good to see you posting here :ok: I take out insurance to cover me in the event of my negligence, not the company supplying me. I think that is the gist of manintheback's post. Point taken, but the norms for air travel involves sharing the risk, so the airline pay for somethings, the passenger insures others, e.g. this year to date:

Swiss mislaid my suitcase for 2 weeks and it was forced open before being returned, presumably by customs, since nothing was missing. Swiss paid for the repar and my travel insurance for emergency clothes.

Air France mislaid my suitcase for 3 days and it was forwarded in perfect condition to my hotel. The insurance took up the strain.

BA were nearly 7 hours late on a long haul flight, which was not covered by EU rules and caused us to miss the first night of our stay on holiday. However, they gave us GBP200 in travel vouchers as a goodwill gesture.

If the airlines were liable for every risk, I doubt that many would still be in business.

Just my opinon.

[ManAtTheBack]

slim_slag Manintheback and myself (ManATtheback) are two different people (I was here first).

You are correct in your comments. I do not see the logic if my paying insurance to cover the airlines failings.

However, Globaliser, you suggest that the customer should assume the risk, either in paying for insurance or suffering the consequences of events more within the control of the airline in the first case.

If you book a flight from New York to London and are flown from New York to London after a long delay then the contract has been satisfied. However the expectation of a timely service has not.

If you book an expensive restaurant and are served with a microwave meal matching the description in the menu then again the contract has been satisfied. However, the expectation of the services of a qualified chef personally preparing your meal has not.

F3G I cannot see how the situations are in reality different as they both involve unrealised expectations. In both the restaurant and on the flight the basic requirements are met but the expectation is not.

It is only the fact that the airline gets its money in advance but the restaurant gets its money afterwards that is different.

With regard to airlines not being in business if they took the risks, I think that it would be the less organised ones which would not be. Those that had less problems would pay out less and therefore be both cheaper and better than the competition.

To close this post a thought, how much does it dost the airlines worldwide to sort out lost, damaged and delayed baggage. How much would it cost to sort out the baggage system, and how much would customer satisfaction increase by doing so.

Is part of the problem that the industry delivers some examples of poor service because it passes the problem back to the customer rather than resolves it.

[spiney]

I remember a few years ago a colleague and I were travelling BA BOG-CCS-LGW on Club. The inbound aircraft had a technical problem on landing in Caracas and they didn't fly the leg CCS-BOG-CCS. We had already checked in and were waiting for the flight, when we were informed that it had been cancelled. The BA staff at Bogota apologised for the cancellation and offered us transport and overnight accomodation which we declined since we were able to make alternative arrangements.

The next morning we were flown BOG-MIA-LGW on AA/BA, upgraded to First all the way. A few weeks later we each received 250 quids worth of BA Duty Free Vouchers and a very nice letter from BA apologising for the cancellation and thanking us for our 'cooperation and understanding'.... or something like that... nice.

Could BA have done any more? Don't think so.