University Air Squadrons

[wingman863]

Being scheduled for entry to university in september 2006, I was wondering about university air squadrons. Is the idea that you basically turn up to a load of meetings and go camping the odd time and in return you get to fly for free using their facilities?

Sounds like a good way to maintain my flying while i'm an impoverised student but is there the mother of all catches? Like they arn't going to sent you off to Iraq or wherever else to chuck grenades out of a grob tutor are they?

Cheers for any info.;)

[UberPilot]

That is exactly the deal. Just explain this when you turn up next autumn - I'm sure you'll get in no problems.

[Taffer]

I don't know - they might want you to show that you have the intention to become an RAF officer and pilot/nav after uni, and after the thousands of pounds of training they give you.

Or is that just crazy thinking? :confused:


If you just want to maintain your flying hours when a student, get a job!

Better still, if you're militarily inclined, join the OTC, get paid for doing more outdoor/leadership stuff than the UAS could dream about, and use the money to fly!

[BEagle]

It would also be legal for you to take your OTC mates flying with you in your PA28 - and you can ask them if they would share the costs. But you would have to pay your exact share (e.g. 4 of you, you must personally pay not less than 25%) to stay legal. But it wouldn't be legal to adertise such flights around the student union.

Not something you could do in Das Teutor, of course!

[wingman863]

"Get a job." Don't be silly!

Its just that it sounds too good to be true. The cost sharing thing is the same as if I were to do flights with mates on a conventional civil non-commercial rating.

Also, will they train you in the same way a civilian flying school will do, ie: with the objective of getting a PPL?

How much flying will they allow? Presumably you have a certain allocation of hours a month.

Does your degree course matter? Law is what I'm hoping to do but its not exactly military aviation orientated.

Cheers for the info so far guys. Much appreciated.

[Flik Roll]

The flying training is much better than that of the Civvy PPL world.
What you get trained to do will count towards the issue of an NPPL.
Flying is 10hrs per year approximately - may be more depending on hours issued to the UAS and the number of studes that actually fly.
Your degree doesn't really count.

Do you actually want to join the RAF afterwards or are you just after a free PPL?

[wingman863]

Had thought of joining the RAF but decided against it for a variety of reasons. May decide to look at it again after I complete a degree but I doubt I would end up joining. So free PPL it is. Although the majority of it has been completed so it would only be to finish it off with the hours I need. Will definately bear it in mind.

Should I be shot for taking advantage of the system? Is it a wee bit immoral?

[BEagle]

Your profile states that hold a PPL and fly the PA-28.

Is this true? Are you who you say you are? Your other posts tend to throw doubt on that.

You will emphatically not receive a 'free' PPL or 'free' NPPL through a UAS - and as you've clearly stated that you are unlikely to seek a career in the RAF, I doubt very much whether you will be accepted into any UAS.

[Flik Roll]

Unlikely to get past freshers fair recruting if you just want free flying... they can smell it a mile off :E

[snowyflyer]

"maintain my flying"

Not a chance. As an ex UAS QFI of 6 years the selection process will suss you out immediately for an hours builder. As for going to the gulf, please!.............what would you offer in Basra or Baghdad? Chill. For all those keen beans looking at this don't be put off by the new UAS system but go and have a look at the UAS world and see if it lights a wee fire in your soul; that is what it is all about. It was always so.

[Flik Roll]

You couldn't take das teuter to Iraq...

it would melt ;)

[50+Ray]

Firefly has just completed third summer in Bahrain. Buy Blitish!

[hippocrates]

Had a great time on ULAS. Enough flying to keep me happy, but more importantly met people who have become great mates, and learnt a huge amount about service life.
In those days (early to mid 90's) lots of us joined the RAF on cadetships in various branches. I still keep in touch with old ULAS mates from 13 years ago scattered all over the world!
If you are interested in the RAF look into it, but dont join to solely build your hours. :cool:

[wingman863]

Yes BEagle. I am "who I say I am." Training for a PPL.

And as for being sent to the gulf; joking.

Cheers for the info guys. As for the people who have something lodged up their arse, vasaline is on special offer in sainsbury's.

[Uncle Ginsters]

Taffer,
Not sure on your sources here
Better still, if you're militarily inclined, join the OTC, get paid for doing more outdoor/leadership stuff than the UAS could dream about, and use the money to fly!

The UAS get paid, just as the OTC.
The UAS do more outdoor/leadership stuff than the OTC could dream of - without the nause of practice-bleeding on a moor in CS95 every weekend - we even had a number of potential defectors at this year's recruiting.

All other comments stand though - no UAS in their right mind would waste a place on someone who's already decided against an RAF career.

:ok:
Uncle G

[Taffer]

Ginsters,

I am aware that the UAS get paid at a similar rate to the OTC, though I would cast serious doubt on your comment that the outdoor/leadership training is inferior to the UAS.

When we had some UGSAS members attached to us at Summer camp 2 years ago, that was the first time most of them had been in the field (yes, even the 2nd and 3rd years). First time most of them had seen an L85, never mind a GPMG. One lad also managed to lance himself with a bayonet.

The OTC puts you through Military Training Qualifications (MTQ) 1, 2, and sometimes 3, which are training packages starting from the basics (basic tactics, mil. knowledge, etc.) to preparing you to take a platoon commander's role in an exercise.

After that, there's also your troop training (Artillery, Infantry, Engineers) to undertake. Troop members are allowed to join other troops on training exercises, so you needn't be stuck going down the one path.

Don't mean to bash the UAS on this one, but I think the OTC provides a more comprehensive package when it comes to personal development. Again, each unit can vary in quality from uni to uni.


The URNU had better chefs though.:)

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Taffer,

Fully agree! I had the pleasure of tagging along with the OTC for a weekend out playing. Whilst not having been through the actual UAS system, I was DE on the south east's premiere UAS for quite some time, and in terms of field craft and quality time spent in the field, the UAS cannot come close to OTC.

That said, I reckon the UAS have a pretty good AT setup, although I'm not in a position to comment on the OTC side of the house.

[Gary Lager]

Shurely if people have something already lodged up their arse(s), they are no longer in need of vasaline (sic)?

Met a few chaps with a simliar set of priorities during my UAS 'career', all got chopped fairly quickly (assuming they made it through the door in the first place). So you might not get many 'hours' in anyway.

Ho hum

[Uncle Ginsters]

Taffers,
Whilst i'd have to agree that the OTC does far more fieldcraft, i would also like to offer the suggestion that fieldcraft does not equal leadership trg and that an L85 qual is not a guarantee to making a great leader of men.

The OTC is in a different position in that it can offer a degree of core pre-employment trg - the UAS does not offer that professional trg (imagine a month of Supply, a month of Admin Sec....:{) but the Personal Development side is growing (a doubled AT budget this year!) and based around AT and specialised PDT packages. The idea being that you don't have to be wearing greens to be pushed beyond your 'comfort' zone (unless i've missed some crazy H & S rule :O ), and indeed to show/develop some amount of leadership qualities.

And as for the UGSAS studes....am surprised they got out of bed....not all UASs are the same :ok:

Two different systems - horses for courses methinks.

Uncle G

P.S. Gary Lager - are you the same of SUAS late-90s fame? PM me if so.

[Ridgerunner]

Hi,

I have passed the second interview and are heading down to Cranwell in December for my medical. I am physically quite fit and don't have any of the diseases/allergies/ or anything that are asked about in the Medical Questionnaire.

I have applied to the ESUAS and the letter states that after the medical, they will review all the results and decide who gets in. I have almost finished my PPL, but that is not my motive for joining. I will have completed it well before the medical. I am considering the RAF as a career and I am very keen to join mainly cause of the officer training, but I want to see how formation flying and aeros are in the Tutor. I got a good comment from one of the interviewers afterward saying he was impressed- so considering if I pass the medical I should be in right? I am worried however that my requirement to wear corrective lenses my go against me despite the rest of my "package". I am improving my vision through natural vision improvement exercises. For example- my eyesight has gone from 1.75 both eyes myopic to 0.75 in 3 months doing these exercises, and I can see 20/20 if I am not too tired at times, so I hope to pass the eye test.

They say they will review who gets in after the medical, is this really just those who pass or don't, or will they look at how well each of us get through along with our overall result of the interviews. I am very keen to get in and have put significant effort in, both with fitness and eyesight along with wising up on current affairs etc, so I would be pretty dissapointed if I don't get in.

[Uncle Ginsters]

Ridgerunner,
If you're on the ESUAS 'yes' list then the medical is a yes/no standard. It should be only a formality as Cranwell will already know of your eyesight. The line about 'pending the medical' is referring to any unforeseen medical issues that may arise.

Hope all goes well.

Uncle G

[Dimensional]

but I want to see how formation flying and aeros are in the Tutor

Good luck -- both of these will be severely limited compared to the previous system. Gone are the days of coming down from Trip 56 with a surgically-enhanced grin and many cheesy photos of yourself in a Tutor... :{

[Ridgerunner]

Cool,

Thanks for the advice. 'Tis a shame about the changes, but it hasn't altered my enthusiasm for the UAS.

[Flik Roll]

Aeros and formation in the tutor are pretty much the same as they are in any other fixed pitch 180bhp SEP aircraft...

Except the roll rate of 360degrees per week...

:E

[Studefather]

Flick Roll,
Don't be so denigrating of the capabilities of someones first a/c. After all, most students only do 1 degree per three years!

[Another St Ivian]

"fixed pitch 180bhp SEP aircraft..."

Shurely shome mishtake...:p

Join your local URNU, have a laugh, do some sailing and AT and sink your pay/bounty into flying. Or the bar. Either way, it'll be fun!

[Flik Roll]

ASI

yeh shome big fat mishtake it was!

Er, sorry meant VP prop!

:\

Studefather...true, true but they still hark on about how great the 'dog was!

I'm actually quite fond of das teuter...:ok:

[BEagle]

Err - and isn't Das Teutor hauled around by a Lycoming 360-A1B6 of 200hp?

The pedestrain roll rate is pretty accurate though. Worse even than the Slugsby Fruitfly.

[PPRuNeUser0211]

pretty sure it was 180 in my day....

[BEagle]

http://www.ukmfts.mod.uk/pages/current/platforms.shtml states 200 bhp.

Textron Lycoming also give the power of their Lycoming 360-A1B6 as 200 bhp.

[Another St Ivian]

I was pretty sure it was 180hp too.

Textron-Lycoming 4 cylinder, horizontally opposed air-cooled engine rated at 180 hp at 2700 RPM.

http://www.cranwell.raf.mod.uk/Organisation/EFT/CPITLINK.html

(The engine is a Lycoming AEIO-360-B1F air-cooled flat-four - A 180hp engine)

[Uncle Ginsters]

Gents, MFTS have obviously been told '200bhp' so that they'll provide us with a 200bph replacement for the Tutor!! The most cunning bit of procurement propaganda i've seen yet....:O Don't burst the bubble.

[Elmlea]

Gone are the days of coming down from Trip 56 with a surgically-enhanced grin and many cheesy photos of yourself in a Tutor...

Wow, look at the hours erosion... I'm not too long out, but I'm sure in "my day" solo form was something like trip 73.... :sad:

[BEagle]

Great, isn't it? MFTS website doesn't even know the correct type of engine fitted to Das verdammte Teutor! What else have they got wrong?

Textron Lycoming do indeed sate that the G115E is powered by a 180 bhp AEIO-360-B1F.

My apologies for believing government sponsored bull$hit!

[singleseatadnav]

Glad to hear that we are discussing the important issues in life like unemployment, aids, the engine in the Tutor.

The Air Sqn was just a breeding ground for underachievement and lack of talent. The UASs shutting will finally shut the back door to the old boys network and prevent those butt snorkelling / blowing their local Wg Cdr for a place in the RAF. The graduates have had their time...... long live the DE...........

:cool:

[Neeps]

The Air Sqn was just a breeding ground for underachievement and lack of talent.

looking for a bite perhaps?

:E

[Michael Edic]

I'm impressed, someone who is clearly current/ex FE is able to consruct a sentence!!