Wires - strikes, cutters and detectors

[rotorque]

Has anyone out there been through wires with a Wire Cutting kit on? I guess there is no need to respond if you have and they didn't work.

- can anyone else give us an idea on how well they work.

[Lu Zuckerman]

To: Rotorque

I have often questioned the efficacy of these so-called wire cutters. First of all the cutter mounted on the top of the fuselage is higher in most cases than the tip path of the rotor and would cause contact with the blades before the wire made contact with the cutter. Secondly, if the wire were to make contact with the cutter and be cut the tension on the wire would cause it to whip and be entrained with the spinning blades. Third, if one wire was cut then there may be two to three more wires in the path of the helicopter. Since it takes energy (forward motion of the helicopter) to result in a shearing of the wire then the helicopter will lose some of its’ forward momentum and not be able to cut the remaining wires. The same can be said for the cutter mounted in front of the skids. And finally, what if in the process of cutting the wire contact was made with the adjacent wire by the cut wire or better still, the fuselage of the helicopter? The flash alone would most probably cause the helicopter to explode.

One final thought (OK two final thoughts). Would the flash between the two ends of the separating (cut) wire flash over and weld themselves to the cutter or cause serious damage to the cutter as to render it ineffective to cut the remaining wires if there was sufficient forward momentum? Also, what if the helicopter was flying at an angle relative to the wires? Would this cause the helicopter to skid down the wire and impact the transmission towers?

The best way of avoiding wires is to know where they are and if they are installed looking for the orange balls that are mounted on the high-tension lines. Another more expensive way to avoid wires is to install a LASER RADAR, which was developed by a UK firm several years ago.


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The Cat

[This message has been edited by Lu Zuckerman (edited 09 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Lu Zuckerman (edited 09 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Lu Zuckerman (edited 09 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by Lu Zuckerman (edited 09 February 2001).]

[DPW]

It is my understanding that the wire strike protection kit is designed to cut wires in cruise flight, i.e. level attitude, cruise speeds. If you encounter said wires on approach to land or climb out after takeoff, the climb/descent angle would permit wire contact with various parts of the blades/fuselage prior to intervention by the cutters. There is also no guarantee that the lower airspeeds during landing/takeoff would permit the cutters to do their job. I agree that the most effective way of dealing with wires is to stay out of them.

[Random Background Noise]

There wouldn't be many pilots around that deliberatly flew into wires so its a bit redundant to say that they shouldn't. Most ag pilots will tell you to watch out for the wire that you know is there because statistically thats the most dangerous. I personally know a pilot who was saved by the WPS (Wire Strike Protection System)when he accidently flew through a set of wires. Scratch marks made by the departing wire could be seen on the bubble. Very sobering indeed.
Having said all that I'd just like to add, "I'd rather have 'em and not need 'em than need 'em and not have 'em".

[RW-1]

Wire cutters work ok provided you are in level flight at cruise speed as DPW indicated. They really are only a hopeful last defense to wires possibly being in the area between the rotor and fuse, as you don't want it hitting the main mast.

They are almost to the plane of the rotor, but not higher, or the blades would meet cutter in normal flight. If you are climbing or descending, you likely wouldn't be at the angle for the wires to go into the cutter, they would hit fuse or rotor first, with predictable consequences. If hit at an angle, don't know if it would cut, I would guess that you would as it took tension effect a roll moment to the heli and then the main rotor or tail would intersect the wires, with predictable results.

As it hits the cutter it is guided to the blade which at cruise is more than enough to snap thru it, and as the heli has "Stretched" the wire at that point foreward (if at cruise flight, level attitude, the two ends are pulled away from the 'copter as it continues to move forward, there is at that point of cut, the tension causes those ends to spring away from the heli.

Which the amount of tension at that point it can move the ends get away fairly fast. Likely fast enough that any arc between wouldn't bond them to the cutter. (One should see the results of an arresting cable break, not something I want to repeat twice in my lifetime I assure you.

Realistically it is best to avoid wires altogether. If you see some, FIND the tower and fly over it. Never, if you can avoid it go between towers, as you may not see the wires until the last possible moment.

Had 1 UH-1N suffer a multiple wire strike, the cutter clipped both, there was enough room between them. The cutter had markings consistant with an arc, but I think that when you first hit a wire, you have an arc that now makes the heli equal to the energy level of the wire (power co. Heli's bond themselves tot eh wire before the worker goes to work on them), But if it is at the moment of cutting, I believe the ends move away too fast to be welded to the cutter at that point. If it happened however, I would think it would be a weak point on that wire now being tensioned by the forward speed of the heli and the cutter would still part it (if it were the second? Don't know, ours did a second, but three? Boy I think one could see three wires coming.)



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Marc

[MightyGem]

Following a Australian Army 206 many years ago when it hit a wire. Classic case, one pole on the side of the road, 2nd pole 60m away in trees. Anyway, wire went through the small gap between the disc and the top cutter, and snapped the pitch change rods. 1 dead, 2 vsi. They don't always work.

[heedm]

Regarding the Laser Radar wire detector that Lu mentioned, the only one I've heard about weighed ~600lbs and could only detect approximately horizontal wires with little clutter around them, but not all the time (I forget the percentage..it wasn't 100%).

The idea seemed sound to me, but since I'm planning on avoiding the wires, I fly where the trees are tall (so they clutter the wires), there are many wires that are not horizontal (ie large spans or skyline logging cables), and I have other ways of using that 600 lbs, I didn't think the wire detector would be that useful.

Also, there was a question whether the detector would pick up a wire threat with enough time for you to do something about it.

Does this one developed in the UK have similiar limitations?



[This message has been edited by heedm (edited 10 February 2001).]

[Lu Zuckerman]

To: heedm

The system I was referring to was small enough to be attached to the skids and weighed considerably less than 600 pounds.

It seems obvious that it may not have been placed into production.


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The Cat

[B Sousa]

Lu, They do work if used. One above said they dont work, but the accident mentioned the wires went above it. I have seen the UH-1 after taking out some small Military wires low level. Marks on the cutters and nothing else other than some Field Commander bitching about his loss of Commo. I dont really think they were designed for high tension wires, but if a Huey blade will cut one Im sure the wires cutters will give it a good go.
As you said best prevention is to pretend you dont have them and stay the hell away from wires.
I have lost many friends to this type of accident.

[MaxNg]

To all

I have spent three years patroling wires, mainly 11Kv (single wooden pole) and I have a healthy respect for them.

Occasionaly these wires ran underneath major grid wires and nessesitated the need to fly (hover taxi) under them, it was not always possible to cross near the pylons, which would have given you somthing to focus on however if you draw an imaginary line on the ground joining up both pylons that support the section that you intend to pass under I found that gave better situational awareness than trying to judge the distance to the wire itself.

My heart sinks evertime I hear that some poor sod has become wrapped up in wires. Whilst most of these can be easily avoided by good airmanship there are those that can catch out the very best of us, and in this age of information technology it is not beyond imagination that a system can be devised to protect the unwary. I have had some thought on the matter and would like to here the response on the following from all cancearned.
Most if not all poles (wooden to pylon) have an identity number and if the GPS position and height AMSL is known then a database could be compiled and software writen for integration with existing GPS to warn the pilot when in the vacinity and height of known wires. It would also be possible to display the info similar to TCAS as your track, velocity and height are known (GPS), even resolution advisories given to facilitate timely avoidance.
I apreciate the fact that only known wires would trigger a alarm but here in the UK we don't have many logging wires strung across valley's,
well none that Ive seen!!!!.

Maybe a system combining the RADAR, EMF sensing and GPS datadased detection would provide a second line of defense that maybe saves lives.

[MaxNg]

To all

I have spent a few years patrolling wires; mainly 11Kv (single wooden pole) and I have a healthy respect for them.
Occasionally these wires ran underneath major grid wires and necessitated the need to fly (hover taxi) under them, it was not always possible to cross near the pylons, which would have given you something to focus on however I found that if you draw an imaginary line on the ground joining up both pylons that support the section that you intend to pass under this gives better situational awareness than trying to judge the distance to the wire itself, however this only works well when the pylon run is easily defined and is not much help when operating around power stations where ultimately all patrols end up

My heart sinks every time I hear that some poor sod has become wrapped up in wires. Whilst most of these can be easily avoided by good airmanship, but there are those that can catch out the very best of us, and in this age of information technology it is not beyond imagination that a system can be devised to protect the unwary or the unlucky. I have had some thought on the matter and would like to here the response on the following from all concerned.
Most if not all poles (wooden to pylon) have an identity number. If the GPS position and height AMSL is known then a database could be compiled and software written to integrate with existing GPS types to warn the pilot when in the vicinity (and height banding) of known wires. It would also be possible to display the info in a similar format to TCAS as your track; velocity and height are known (GPS). Maybe even resolution advisories given to facilitate timely avoidance.
I appreciate the fact that only known wires would trigger an alarm but here in the UK we don't have many logging wires strung across valleys,
well none that I’ve seen!!!!.

Maybe a system combining the RADAR, EMF sensing, IR and GPS database detection would provide a second line of defense that maybe saves lives.

[SPS]

A VERY good idea and more relevant now GPS is more accurate (the de-rating of accuracy now removed by US military).

If all wires, posts and pylons were surveyed over a period (maybe during maintenance) then a database (silimar to Jeppeson, or even part of it) could be built up and loaded to any GPS. Even the wires themselves could be shown on the moving map.

Big job? Not as big as putting them all there in the first place and that got done...

All new installations could be entered as they are built as matter of obligation, all exisiting could be surveyed by the firms patrolling, Pilots from every district could send in info. to be ratified by a central mapping agency. All anyone needs to supply their local wire/post info is a GPS and a pen......! Info could even be downloaded to a central computer over the net...All the technology is there right now.

Care would have to be taken that pilots do not become too dependant on such a system and fly into unlisted wires as a result but that would only require the same amount of caution that ALL GPS derived information should be treated with. An EMF proximity warning system could help in that direction too.

I've always thought that EMF would be (should be) easy to detect, one may do it at home (in a crude way) using a $10 microphone connected to any amplifier.

The two systems used in conjunction could be a very important step forward. Wires are a major problem here in NZ (as they are in other Countries). I am going to forward this excellent idea on to NZ CAA right now.

Well done.

[Ancient Pelican]

I flew powerline patrol for about eleven years and the power company had a map coordinate for most every distribution, and transmission pole and structrue, also for , pole mounted and pad mounted transformers, switches, relays etc. GPS locating is perhaps possible. The pole location is known, but I am not sure if the map coordianates are usable as they are not lat/long, most were grid locations from USGS survey maps.
The software memory to plot pole locations for one powerline could be daunting, one line could have a thousand poles on it. Isn't the military working on millimeter radar for this purpose?
Keep in mind if you are just flying over powerlines not look for the lines, look for the pole or structure, they are much easier to see than the line itself! Also, the pole or structure is the highest point on the line so cross over the pole and you will be safe.
Has anyone heard of wire strike kits that will cut the high voltage lines, say 130KV and above? Or the steel reinforced aluminum lines?

[Skycop]

This sounds like a good idea, however in many areas of the UK, for example, there are so many powerlines that pilots would probably suffer an information overload. The warning would possibly be going off so often that it would become counterproductive. We all know what happens then. The pilot turns off the equipment.

I was involved in an RAF trial around 1980 in the Puma, using a device that showed the nearest wires using a magnetic field detection system. The information was portrayed on a small dial presenting the direction of the wires. Where there were many wires it became impossible to decipher where the real threat was.

The device did not enter production to my knowledge.

With any device using a database, keeping it updated is a big problem.

I'm sure it's possible to overcome the problems but as usual it's financial considerations that take priority.

[SPS]

Absolutely it can be a problem in areas where their are a lot of wires, the screen could end up resembling scribble!

I wonder if it would be good to only display the next three lines in your current path?

Agree that the database needs be kept right up to date. Presumably any agency that wants to put up a pole or pylon forming any part of a line would have to seek permission to do so and could database entry/maintenance be made a condition of all and any permission(s) granted?

[MaxNg]

Thanks for the response

SPS
Let me know what kind or response you get.

EMI detection will only work when the line is live, I/R I’m sure is the same but I will take advice on that, if so these have shortfalls in so much as they will not detect Earth, telephone, or Guy lines etc.


As you know the power lines run generally in a straight line and therefore it would only be necessary to plot the first and last in any straight run this would reduce the amount of memory required. I envisage a protected area of 600m (300m either side of the line) the benefit of this is two fold, 1. Gives you time to take avoiding action 2. This would allow for slight doglegs in the runs (reducing the amount of memory needed).

As modern GPS’s are now reliable and the signal and accuracy constantly monitored (RAIM) spurious warnings can be reduced or eliminated, the type of warning given would be dependant on the flight path and velocity of the A/C it would also be possible to make to protected zone around the lines vary in width according to the closing speed of the A/C i.e. 100kts closing would trigger a resolution at 1000 m, 50 kts 600m and so on. This would need the input from a radalt to stop warnings when over flying

Good point about who would pay.

I wonder how much lost revenue, let alone the repair cost the power companies suffer every ten years to this kind of incident? Would they pay towards such a system?
Insurance companies could offer lower premiums to police and medical helicopter operators?

[SPS]

I'll let you know of any response by private post to preserve......well, things...!

In NZ the power companies have agreed to bear the cost of providing and fitting those orange balls on risky lines which is great but identifiaction of which ones are a danger seems to be causing problems. It won't happen overnight and it won't be all lines.

I still prefer the GPS database and detection idea, although the balls work for those who are not so equipped.

So let's have ALL of them...

[Grey Area]

I read about a laser based powerline detection system a few years ago that had undergone promising trials, although it all seems to have gone quiet now.

[Pac Rotors]

Heard a rumour here at Heli Expo today that Erickson are looking at getting a Wire strike kit made for the S-64. Now that will be a heck of a system. Aparently they had a strike not that long ago and shook them into looking at some sort of protection.

With their machines predominantly out working on fires in foreign countries the protection might be worth adding to the machines, but I suppose it also depends on the cost since they only have 19 of the Skycranes.

[Weight and Balance]

The last time I talked to anybody at Bristol (inventor of the WSPS) they claimed several hundred "saves". As earlier posters pointed out, it doesn't work every time, but it works often enough to make it a worthwile investment, in my opinion. Bristol is very careful about statements about what wire sizes can be cut, but I have seen multistrand steel structural cables over .5 inch in diameter cut. By the way, the cable is usually not cut clean through. The WSPS notches the cable, and the continuing forward motion of the helicopter yanks on the wire, causing a tension failure at the notch.

[VLift]

Wire strike protection kits and life vests. Never used either one for its name implied purpose but, given the experience of others I have always been glad they were there.

"Experience is not always the best teacher, it is often costly and painful"

[Pac Rotors]

A German company called Dornier had info at Heli Expo about a system called Hellas which is used by the German Border Guard on their machines and it actually detects wires and warns you where they are and how far ahead.

Never got a chance to have a look at it because I was busy but did get there brochure. Will post some more on this topic when I unpack and have the brochure at hand.

[Ancient Pelican]

I believe Weight and Balance has brought up a very good point about wire cutter kits. The wire size is probably one of the two most important factors. The other factor is the make-up of the conductor. Most high voltage conductors are made of reinforced wire. They have an aluminum outer jacket for conducting the current and an inner sleeve of high tensile strength steel to carry the weight of the conductor. This inner sleeve could be as much as an one-inch in diameter, I don’t think a wire cutter kit is going to cut that. I believe the wire cutter kits are designed to cut copper telephone and low voltage electric line. Just a thought.

[Pac Rotors]

Yeah but according to all the salesmen at Heli Expo it will cut through anything :)

I watched it cut time and time again a piece of wire strung between two assemblies at the show but as anyone knows this is under controlled conditions, and out in the real world it is a hell of a lot different.

[coning angel]

Due to commercial pressures etc, people are going to be killed flying into wires even after being lectured constantly on the subject.
It's one thing to say "I won't ever do that" but what if one day you are flying to take a couple of VIP's home and the weather closes in. etc etc.
With the coming summer and (hopefully) increased amount of flying out there, we can all fly safe and not buckle to peer/commercial pressure "to get the job done"!
Safe Flying.

[paco]

Wires are tricky beasts, and those seen on the way into a site can very often not be seen on the way out, especially against clear blue skies (not so much in bad weather as is commonly thought). People who fly around them regularly, like myself, don't actually look for wires, but the clues to their existence first. I would be careful about blaming pilots for wire strikes without knowing the whole circumstances of the flight.

However, the question of customer pressure has been something I have had to cope with all of my career, on both sides of the Atlantic - and you should see the tricks they try to pull over here - they know the flight manual very well, and your transient limits!

Pilots, and helicopter ones in particular, are in the curious position of being told they are in charge (see Annex 2 of the Chicago Convention), yet also being influenced largely by the uneducated, including customers and management. Nobody tells you that you must develop certain qualities on top of all those exams, one being the ability to say no. I was lucky to be saying no to Generals when I was but a mere corporal, in another life, but other people didn't and I hope I have the breadth of mind to realise that they don't have that experience and the world is not as black and white as some people in their ivory towers seem to realise.

It's not just pilots that should be on PDM/CRM courses, it's also management and customers, and *then* we might start reducing the accident rate! Funny how, if a fork lift driver says he can't take more than 8 barrels, people believe him, yet they always turn up with those extra couple of hundred pounds with a helicopter! Is there a reason why we seem to have no credibility and nobody listens? It's very frustrating.

The only thing I would like to say to fellow pilots faced with pressure is to point out that you are not just saying NO for yourself, but for the next guy, because that customer will have expectations based on the service *you* provide, or the weather you fly in.

Phil

[ShyTorque]

Commercial pressure comes from a number of directions.

For example, on arrival at the aircraft, the customer sees the vacant seat and wants to put a fat friend in it. He doesn't understand about IFR fuel reserves and MAUM so when he is told, sorry but no, he thinks the pilot is an idiot.

Or, having been advised light baggage only, turns up with the world's largest suitcase. When the pilot points out that it has taken two people to lift it into the aircraft and it is too heavy, the customer thinks the pilot is just being pedantic and awkward.

The customer turns up and wants to change the destination to the back lawn of a large private house in the middle of a city ("It's OK, my friend's father owns it and he says we can land there). Pilot points out that CAA permission is required and a Rule 5.1 (c) exemption letter is required for a landing in a congested area, the customer thinks the pilot is a pedantic, awkward idiot.

On being told the weather is too bad for even IFR flight, (cloud on the deck and freezing temperatures at low level) the customer points out that the aircraft has radar and can therefore land anywhere in any conditions. Besides, he has just phoned a friend at the destination (a small field in the middle of nowhere) who said the weather is fine. He doesn't understand the requirement for a weather diversion airfield so he thinks the pilot is a stupid, awkward, pedantic idiot.

The customer turns up 2 hours late so it's dark now. He can't understand why the pilot thinks it's so difficult to land in an unlit and unmarked field in the dark. After all, he's been there himself (admittedly by day and ok, it was a couple of years back, but he's sure he can show the pilot where it is.....).

And there's an awful lot more...

The most difficult thing about this job is knowing when to say "NO!". Those that should have, often end up wishing they did have :rolleyes:

[SASless]

Wires and Helicopters....

Simple fact of life as a helicopter pilot....you fly around in areas of wires....at heights that they exist in....and you will one day find yourself becoming a statistic. The blessed things can catch you faster than a suspicious wife....in an area you know like the back of your hand.
Think not....try flying around in an area where loggers use the Hi-line method of logging. They can string a wire faster than pilots downing the first free pint at opening time.
Ever see the alpine firewood haulling wires in Italy and other areas in the Alps.....mighty hard to see and thousands of feet above the ground.
Cable car wires....some of them run into some very high places.
Mobile balloon radars in the USA....used by the government to interdict the narcotics smugglers.....get a wee bit off course some very hazy day! The balloon is up there about 15,000 feet above cloud and there you are putzing along at a mere 3,000 with your head up and locked.
Let your guard down and partake of some of that much maligned nap of the earth flying or seeing just how close you can come to the green bits when you think no one is looking......without having done your route recce first before getting into the trees.
I guess we never have had an occasion to experience deteriorating weather....that is what I call wrongly guessing what the weather is going to be like when I get someplace....never happened to me...nope...not even once. (Yeah Right!)

Anyone of you out there that thinks it will always happen to the other guy....and that you are immune from eating a set of wires....keep your insurance paid up. Your next of kin will thank you for it.
I would like to see an honest poll of our members to see how many have ever undertaken a near-fatal closeup thread count of wires while flogging around in a helicopter.

I popped over a ridge near Homer, Alaska.....in the middle of absolutely no where.....at nought feet and max knots in a 500D....comfy as you would want.....to discover the only set of power lines in what must have had to be 300 nautical miles. I missed them by an unknown distance....had my eyes closed at the time (tensing for the impact...knowing I was dead!) and failing to cut the tail boom off after turning myself into a Soprano with the cyclic.....to come to the realization that complacency is very subtle in its onset. It sometimes leaves in a flash!

[rotorboy]

Sasless,

Had mine (power line experience) awhile back . Made me leave my instructing/powerline job in the the flying motorcycle. My boss at the time had me flying powerlines in a r22. Not the smartest thing to be doing. was flying along wiht the lineman looking at insulators and the wind did a 180 and i started to settle. came about that close to eating it , was able to turn it into the wind away form the line, scared to death that the t/r was going to strike or get hung up. Never been so white in my life.

Then I went to reading gauges in a 61 yanking lumber. dont know which was safer. Guess it beats Nigeria, huh?

RB:ok:

[SASless]

That particular fright of a lifetime....wish it was the only one of that intensity....was in mid-September 1981.....at about the 5,000 hour level...three ATP's under my belt...two helicopter and one fixed wing....and a stint in Uncle Sam's vagabond air circus.

[Devil 49]

Anybody know an online source of flying stats that breaks down by type operation: number or hours/landings total fleet; aeromedical; aerial application?

Recent posting of wirestrike info in another forum has me wondering at relative risk of different specialties. Aerial application presents as having the highest risk, they operate where the wires are. Wondering how aeromedical shakes out beyond, the raw numbers.

If you've already done the work, that info appreciated also.

[Helinut]

I have done quite a bit of this sort of number crunching over the years. Generally, the biggest problem is getting relevant stats on the amount of flying, however you want to define it (flying hours/numbers of movements etc.). The accidents/incidents are usually much better recorded and can be analysed from their recorded details. The UK CAA do split hours flown for offshore, but not much further than that.

[SASless]

The flight safety foundation (fsf) has yearly reports that will go a long way towards answering your questions. EMS still seems to be the risky place to be....from what I remember of the stats. Weather and wires are the leading causes of problems....oddly enough. That web site is flightsafety.org .

[Heliport]

BBC News report Helicopter in power lines scare

A television crew filming aerial shots of Loch Ness had a scare when their helicopter hit power lines. An Inverness-based helicopter hired by a private film crew snagged the lines near Fort Augustus on Friday at 1300 BST.

None of the three people aboard were hurt, but the helicopter was slightly damaged in the accident north of Kytra Locks on the Caledonian Canal.

Full report here (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3193223.stm)

[Woolf]

a bit concerned by the following comment:


Jerry Francis, chief executive of the firm (PDG), said the accident had not been life-threatening.

He said: "Of course it could have been more serious. It can be any time you get into a helicopter or plane or car.

"Obviously any incident like this could be worse but fortunately this is just a minor incident and that is how we are treating it .
"The aircraft made an immediate landing. It wasn't a forced landing or anything like that.

"Nobody was hurt and there was little damage to the helicopter."



Now, the fact that the helicopter did actually strike the power lines signals that they were not seen by the pilot. It doesn't sound like a "minor incident" to me. What if they had been a bit lower?

Don't think these comments do the company any favours. What does everyone think?

[SASless]

Oh...he probably saw the wires....at some point. They can be hard to see sometimes....the interesting fact in the US is that fixed wing aircraft hit more wires than do helicopters. I was a bit surprised to learn that....always thought we had the lion's share of them due to the nature of what we do with the helicopter.

[RDRickster]

SASless, that interesting. Where'd you find that statistic?

[JKnife]

If they are the wires I suspect they are, then they are strung across the valley and have bright coloured balls on them to aid visibility. I think these highlighters were put in place because of a wire strike by a fixed-wing aircraft and other near misses!

I seem to remember that one of the Red Arrows hit these wires in the mid-80's when they were in transit up the Loch at low level en-route to either Kinloss or Lossiemouth.

However, the Hawk that hit the wires didn't hit the top ones but the bottom ones which were reportedly 70ft AGL!! The wires that were hit were also at the side of the valley, not in the middle. The engineer flying with him ejected and both of his legs were damaged as the cockpit glass did not disintegrate due to the high tension cable damaging the Miniature Detonation Cord preventing it from working properly! The pilot was able to continue flying the Hawk and landed it at Inverness Airport.

[bell4can]

According to the french media, a B3 from the company Mont-Blanc Helicopters crashed this morning (09h45) near Chamonix.

Two die in French Alps helicopter crash


CHAMONIX, France, Jan 14 (AFP) - The pilot of a French helicopter and one of his two passengers were killed Wednesday when the craft hit cable-car lines in the French Alps, ski resort officials said.

The cause of the accident, which occurred near the town of Chamonix, was not immediately known.

The officials said the helicopter was transporting two ski-slope safety officers when it hit the overhead cables of the Grands Montets cable-car system and crashed near one of the supporting pylons, at an altitude of 2,600 metres (8,600 feet).The third man, who was injured, was being cut from the wreckage.

© AFP


:( Bell4can

[[email protected]]

Very sad to hear this as it is only 2 years ago the same company lost another helo plus pilot plus 2 pax in Flaine when the rotors hit a ski lift cable.

[wish2bflying]

I don't get it. I would have thought a valley with cables strung across it would be a no-go zone except under extreme circumstances, and then treated like a black-night IFR descent - with extreme caution.

Does anyone who knows the area better have an opinion on this? Surely it would be easier to fly right over, or through the next valley, rather than risk this sort of accident?

--
Michael.

[Ascend Charlie]

Wish 2 B:
The text said they were carrying ski slope safety officers - perhaps they were inspecting the slopes at low level?:8

[wish2bflying]

The report said they hit the cable car system, not ski lift cables. Anyway, it's pointless for me to make any assumptions until seeing a full accident report, I just continue to be surprised by wire strike incidents at sites like this.

:confused:

[bell4can]

Apparently (from the french press) the safety officers' mission was avalanche control .

[expedite_climb]

I was up in the Alps at new year, and was amazed by these choppers, always up and down, and quite often with plenty of cloud above and below them on the mountain.

Weather out there must be pretty naff out there at the moment, as there are loads of snow showers about.

A sad day.

[LGNYC]

French version w/ details


Accident d'hélicoptere en Haute Savoie: deux morts, un blessé grave

CHAMONIX (AP) - Le pilote d'un hélicoptère privé et l'un de ses deux passagers ont trouvé la mort mercredi matin dans l'accident de leur appareil sur le domaine skiable des Grands Montets, à 2.600m d'altitude, au-dessus de Chamonix, a-t-on appris auprès de la gendarmerie.

Le pilote, Daniel Poujol, 59 ans, est mort sur le coup. L'un de ses passagers, Gérard Croz, un pisteur de 38 ans, est décédé des suites de ses blessures peu de temps après l'arrivée des secours. Le second passager, Jean-Bernard Petit, 55 ans, également pisteur, blessé au dos, à la cuisse et à la tête a été transporté à l'hôpital de Sallanches où ses jours ne sont pas en danger. Toutes les victimes de cet accident vivaient dans la vallée de Chamonix.

L'appareil, un écureuil B3 appartenant à la société "Chamonix Mont-Blanc Hélicoptères", effectuait du déclenchement préventif d'avalanches à l'aide d'explosifs lorsqu'il a heurté, pour une raison inconnue, les câbles du téléphérique des Grands Montets. La remontée mécanique était à l'arrêt au moment de l'accident en attendant que les pisteurs aient fini leur travail de purge des avalanches.

Une enquête sur cet accident a été ouverte par la brigade de gendarmerie des transports aériens de Lyon-Saint-Exupéry. AP

[expedite_climb]

Google translator :

Accident of hélicoptere in High Savoy: two dead, a severely wounded person CHAMONIX (AP) - the pilot of a private helicopter and one of his two passengers found death Wednesday morning in the accident of their apparatus on the skiable field of Large Montets, with 2.600m of altitude, above Chamonix, one learned near the gendarmerie. The pilot, Daniel Poujol, 59 years, died on the blow. One of its passengers, Gerard Croz, a 38 year old tracker, is deceased continuations of its wounds little time after the arrival of the helps. The second passenger, Jean-Bernard Petit, 55 years, also tracker, wounded with the back, the thigh and the head was transported to the hospital of Sallanches where its days are not in danger. All the victims of this accident lived in the valley of Chamonix. The apparatus, a B3 squirrel pertaining to the company "Chamonix Mont Blanc Helicopters", carried out preventive release of avalanches using explosives when it ran up, for an unknown reason, the cables of the cable car of Large Montets. The ski lift was with the stop at the time of the accident while waiting for that the trackers finished their work of purging of the avalanches. An investigation into this accident was opened by the gendarmerie squad of air transports of Lyon-Saint-Exupéry. AP

[paulo]

I've snowboarded down past that exact spot so many times. :(

wish2 - It's quite normal for helis to operate in the Grand Montets area at low heights. On a busy day one will usually see several working at quite close quarters as the need arises - the red mountain rescue and blue Gendarmerie ones seem to especially busy in the season.

It sounds like the pilot in this instance was also local, which makes it more puzzling, and maybe even sadder.

-----

FYI... another report:

http://www.pistehors.com/comments/163_0_1_0_C/

[Aerobatic Flyer]

This is very sad. The passenger who died, Gérard Croz, had been the subject of a documentary that was shown on French TV in the Rhone-Alpes region the weekend before the accident.

He was a charming man, with a deep love of the mountains and a lovely sense of humour. He spoke about how he loved to work on the mountain early in the morning before the skiers arrived, and at the end of the day when they had left. Without perhaps being aware of it, he was a fine philosopher who spoke simply but profoundly about man's place in the world as he saw it.

He also spoke at length about the risks involved in his work, and about the colleagues who had died in avalanches and other accidents. He said that he hoped to live to an old age, but that if that wasn't to happen an accident on the Grands Montets mountain would be something he could understand.

The Chamonix valley is a small community, despite the thousands of tourists who flock there in winter. The Croz family are one of about half a dozen who's history in the valley can be traced back for centuries. The cemetries in Chamonix and Argentière are filled with members of this family who have died young in accidents on the mountain, and sadly their number has risen again.

The helicopter pilots in Chamonix do an incredible job in the most horrendous weather conditions. I know 2 people who would certainly be dead today if a pilot in the Chamonix valley hadn't persevered in his attempts to get a rescue team to them just before a storm arrived. It's such a shame that an accident like this gets international news coverage, while nobody ever hears of the lives they save every week. But that, I suppose, is life.

[Heliport]

Threads merged.

[Aesir]

"In reference to post discussing electronic wire warning device!"


I thought such a electronic device warning about wires using GPS and database already existed! or at least is under development.

EGPWS made by Honeywell.

http://www.egpws.com/index.html

Perhaps Nick Lappos can enlighten us more, I belive the unit is standard equipment in a new S-76.

[Shawn Coyle]

Ampitech in Montreal came up with a wire detection system that used radar, and appeared to be pretty good. It was flight tested by the Canadian National Research Council and they thought it worked well. Had a simple interface and didn't weigh too much or cost the earth.
Don't know the status of the company, but heard they may have gone under. Neat idea, but surprised it didn't get taken up by any EMS operators.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Just reading the latest Rotor and Wing over breakfast this morning, and by and large it was a fair read this month. In particular I was reading the article on wirestrike avoidance, and experiments in Norway to reduce the risk. So far, all good stuff, then I came to...

Wire strikes don't kill a lot of people. In the US, for instance, they take 30-36 lives a year. While the low death rate is a good thing, it is an impediment to people seeking means of driving it even lower. At the current rate, it would be difficult to enact a regulation calling for implementation of new wire-strike avoidance gear, said David Downey, manager of the US FAA's Rotorcraft directorate".

Is this correct? 30-36 fatalities per year would be roughly double the United Kingdom's ENTIRE GA fatal accident rate, and our population is only about 1/4 that of the USA. Compared to what is the FAA considering 30+ fatalities per year "low"?

In my own professional life I'm currently fighting to keep flying a fleet of 250 FW aircraft that have been around for about 20 years because CAA have decided on a purely theoretical analysis that there's a risk of a particular mode of fatal accident might happen one day. Surely there's something wrong here - is the information wrong, or does FAA really have such an attitude towards so many people being killed?

Can anybody offer any light on this? because right now this seems rather nonsensical.

G

[LGNYC]

Hi GG,

check this out for example

http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2003/ARG0302.pdf

p. 36 I think. Glancing very quickly I had ~45 fatals with foreign objects in flight. Bet you the majority is with wires.

There's also a lot of other similar reports on the NTSB's site.

BTW - enjoying Ray Proutty's book?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Okay, so the stats seems to be in the right order.

But to treat a cause of 30+ aviation fatalities, per year, in one country as insufficiently important to be actively pursuing ways of bringing the number down - I have to say that troubles me.

G


N.B. Indeed I am, it's nice to have a complete set at last.

[Shawn Coyle]

Genghis:
But remember that aviation is alive and well, and very active in the USA. Lots more people flying, lots more commercial activity - much more than the ratio of population. Same thing if you compare the US to Canada - significant difference in the aviation population and activity in comparison to the total populations.
You might see how many people die in the UK every year in hill walking or sailing if people tell you how dangerous aviation is. (I'm not even going to think about driving).

[Genghis the Engineer]

Okay, a fair point Shawn, can we reduce it to per flying hour?

I know that the light helicopter fatal accident rate (all causes) in the UK is 1 per 53,000 hours (that was from CAA's published summary for 1990-1999). Is there an available figure for total hours flown for the US light helicopter fleet from which we can guesstimate the mean number of flying hours between fatal wirestrikes? That would offer the most meaningful perspective on it I'd suggest.

G

[Lu Zuckerman]

If it is anything like commercial aircraft the FAA will do a cost benefit analysis to determine if a major change to a given type of commercial aircraft is justified. In other words they will determine if it costs less to make the change than it does to cover the costs of insurance payouts (in event of a crash) the change is justified.

However in the case of wire strikes the cost of incorporation of wire strike avoidance (orange balls on the wires) is the responsibility of the power companies not the FAA. The FAA can request more orange balls but if it costs more to make the change than it does in paying out for legal claims then they won’t do it. If it can be shown that the wire strike was the fault of the pilot (pilot error) then they (the power companies) could care less. If the FAA can do a cost benefit analysis why not the power companies.


:E :E

[Flying Lawyer]

Oh ........ those wires!

Saw this in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, Wisconsin when looking for something else on the net


Helicopter crashes near fuel tank
Rotor blade cuts off utility pole in accident

A $300,000 helicopter got tangled in electrical lines, cut down a utility pole and crashed just short of a 10,000-gallon fuel tank at Burlington Memorial Airport, officials said Monday.

The pilot and his passenger suffered minor injuries in the crash shortly before noon Saturday, and the pilot estimated that his helicopter was a total loss, officials said.

Airport Manager Gary Meisner said the pilot, Jeffrey Johnston, told him that he was on his way from his home in Michigan to attend an event at the Grand Geneva Resort in Lake Geneva. Meisner said the crash occurred after Johnston stopped at the airport to refuel.

After refueling, the helicopter began to lift off and got tangled in electrical wires that are about 20 feet off of the ground and about 30 yards from the pump, which holds jet fuel and 100-octane gasoline, Meisner said. The rotor blade cut down a utility pole, and the helicopter sustained other damage after it crashed near the fuel tank, he said.

Meisner said Johnston's helicopter, a Robinson-447, is worth about $300,000. Meisner said that given the entanglement with the power lines and the nearness to the fuel tanks, it was fortunate there was no fire.

Police said Johnston lives in Howell, Mich., and required no treatment for his injuries. His passenger, a woman who was not identified, was treated at Memorial Hospital of Burlington for minor injuries and released Saturday, police said.

As of 2000, the city-owned airport was handling 52,000 liftoffs and landings a year, according to the Wisconsin Bureau of Aeronautics. Most of those involved airplanes, Meisner said.

Federal Aviation Administration investigators checked the scene Saturday and released the wreckage, Meisner said. There was no indication that any mechanical problem caused the crash, he said.


"Just short" of a 10,000-gallon fuel tank?
On this occasion, the journo isn't exaggerating. :eek:

Click here for photo (http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/news/img/mar04/pilot030104.jpg)

[Helinut]

Without this shot including the aircraft wreck, you would wonder what the vertical tubes protecting the tank were for............

[rotorboater]

Difficult to see that tank isn't it, (not)
What is he doing lifting off over the fuel tank in the 1st place?

[headsethair]

SO - how many airfields in the UK have wires 20 ft off the ground 30 yards from the pumps???

Best I can think of is Huddersfield International (as it says on the side of the control caravan) where there's a pump buried down near a hangar and you have to nehotiate your way past a full skip to get there.

On the way out you tend to blow over the plastic furniture on the grass outside the caravan.

But no wires.:ooh: :ooh: near pumps.

[Heliport]

On the way out you tend to blow over the plastic furniture on the grass outside the caravan. Be careful - the CAA prosecuted a pilot for doing something very similar while taxying.

Click here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=19347)

[headsethair]

Fine. But at Huddersfield it is just the furniture - not the people sitting in it. Throwing someone "six feet in the air" would seem to be a difficult exercise with a 44.

[Heliport]

Good response. :D

Difficult with the Twin Squirrel too! ;)
I was only having fun because your comment reminded me of the earlier thread - well worth a read if anyone didn't seen it at the time.
"six feet in the air" :eek:
It didn't happen. It's just a good example of how people grossly exaggerate when there's been an incident, particularly involving aircraft.

[Autorotate]

Looking at the pic methinks the pilot was very lucky not to get whacked in the face with the blade as it seems like it was just about to come through the doorway and greet him.

Autorotate.

[Vfrpilotpb]

WaltonWood , near Doncaster has some rather good wires to avoid also.

Hi folks I m still here but V Bl**dy busy

Vfr

[RW-1]

Departures and approaches to/from the southwest to the Charlie Ramp at FXE have a set of wires as well.

Nothing majorly critical if one is flying the proper approach/departure profile, but one does look at them when departing!

Shari's (My Wife of two months come tomorrow) largest fear is of wires. So when with her, if conditions and loadout permit I'll do a max perf takeoff past the altitude of said wires before really translating forward, this places her at ease a bit.

A grand "Hi" to everyone here, because I've been busy myself and away from the board. (Thanks Heliport).

[The Nr Fairy]

Autorotate:

It's like the R44 is trying to slap the pilot in the face for crashing !

[kissmysquirrel]

removed this post due to nature of the incident and persons involved

[headsethair]

According to FAA data, wire strikes are the single most common cause of helicopter crashes.
I don't think that applies in the UK - but it's hard to find the CAA or AAIB stats.

[Buitenzorg]

headsethair,

You are partially correct. Wire strikes are not the most common cause of helicopter accidents. However, they are by far the most common cause of FATAL helicopter accidents.

Two other statistics that should give food for thought:

-In over 80% of wire strikes, the weather was CAVU;
-In approximately the same percentage of strikes, the pilot was familiar with the particular wire struck.

[Autorotate]

This is from the latest issue of my mag, thought it might be good reading material for all members.

Autorotate.
---------------------------------------------------------


‘Getting Wired’


Wire strikes are one of the more likely, if not, Number One causes of helicopter accidents. They have become so commonplace, that many helicopter pilots categorise themselves as those ‘who have had a wire strike’, or ‘those who are going to’. It is scary to think the helicopter industry has progressed to a point where wire strikes are almost expected, but what can be done about this hazard?

The statistics tell the story. Of the 1,534 helicopter accidents in the US between 1996 and 2003, 89 were attributed to wire strikes, with over 30% resulting in fatalities. Australian data reflect a similar picture, with 38% of the 122 wire strikes recorded over the past ten years, involving helicopters*. Significantly, 38% of all these wire strikes were fatal.

A Minefield of Wires
Wires are found anywhere and everywhere – along and over reservoirs, roads, rivers, ridge-lines, and even in the country. Not only are they everywhere, there are many types of wires – telephone pole wires, high tension power lines, including unexpected guide wires from pole to ground which are usually perpendicular to the rest of the wires, flying fox wires across ravines and gorges, and ground guide wires attached to antennae.

Inevitably it is the aircraft that operate low-level that are most at danger of colliding with wires, such as helicopters doing agricultural work, filming and EMS during outfield landings. The cost is enormous in airframes, lives, and damage to power company infrastructure.

Whose Responsibility?
As seems to be the way in aviation, pilots are often attributed with the sole responsibility for these accidents, on the spurious assumption that pilots can ‘see and avoid’ wires. Relying on un-alerted ‘see and avoid’ as the only defence, has been shown to be an extremely poor method against mid-air collision. Around the world, utility, power generation and telephone companies have largely ignored their responsibilities in reducing the chances of wire strikes – conveniently blaming pilots. In the United States however, the law presently sees the responsibility for wire strikes as more equally shared between the pilot and the wire owner.

The reality is that wires and the towers that support them are difficult and sometimes impossible to see, even if the general location of the wire is known. Complicating the matter further, is the pressure brought to bear by the environmental lobby, pushing utility companies to make the wires and supporting infrastructure even less conspicuous. High visibility markers on the lines would certainly help.


Eye Problems

The human visual system is better at detecting moving rather than stationary targets, and the physical limitations of the human eye are such, that even the most careful search won’t guarantee that wires can be sighted. Research shows that the eye begins to lose its visual acuity at around three degrees off-centre. Beyond ten degrees off-centre, the visual acuity falls away significantly. Unless a pilot is looking straight at a wire it is unlikely to be seen, because a significant proportion of the view may be masked by the eye’s blind spot (where the optic nerve attaches to the eyeball). Or the eyes may focus at an inappropriate distance, due to the effect of an obstruction, or due to empty field myopia (absence of visual cues) – when the eyes focus at a resting distance of around half a meter. An object which is smaller than the eye’s acuity threshold is also unlikely to be detected.

Unfortunately, helicopters are often flown low-level on high workload tasks, increasing the stress on pilots. A pilot’s functional visual field contracts under stressful conditions or increased workload, and the resulting ‘tunnel vision’ further reduces the chance that a wire will be seen in peripheral vision.

Contrast, or rather the lack of contrast, will certainly lessen the chances of a wire being seen. Compounding the problem is that wires become less visible with age. For example, copper oxidizes and turns pale green – becoming almost impossible to see against rural backgrounds or in cloudy conditions. Aluminium wire turns pale grey over time – again impossible to see in low contrast conditions.

Considering the physical limitations of the human eye, the odds are stacked against the pilot seeing wires un-alerted, and even if the pilot is aware of a wire’s presence, fatigue, inattention or task focus can lead to a wire strike of a known wire. A pilot’s ability to see wires is also adversely affected by dirty windscreens, light conditions, the obscuring effects of terrain, and changes in visual perspective that occur during climb and descent. In addition, accurately judging the helicopter’s distance from unmarked wires is nearly impossible. Wires are also difficult to see from certain angles and against some backgrounds, colours and textures. Sometimes a wire will only be seen or be obvious from the ground or beneath/level with the wire. Tell-tale signs such as a line of poles, or a cleared line through the foliage can also be missed.

Causes

Accident reports demonstrate the factors involved with wire strikes. A recent Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) report stated that late in the afternoon the pilot of a Bell Long Ranger 206L-1 was returning from an agricultural crop-spraying task, and while transiting a ridgeline, the helicopter collided with wires and impacted the ground. The pilot was fatally injured. Apparently, the helicopter had approached the ridgeline at a very low height and struck two, three-strand lightweight, high-tensile steel wires of a powerline supplying a repeater site. A wire strike protection system (WSPS) was not fitted to the helicopter. The maximum height of the wires was 31.5 meters (103 ft) for the upper wire and 30.1 meters (99 ft) for the lower. The wires were not shown on the relevant charts, and high visibility devices were not attached. This accident reflects the dangers of helicopters not being equipped with a wire protection device, transiting unnecessarily at a low height, and crossing a ridgeline (where wires can often be strung). The lines were also unmarked.

In another accident, the pilot of a Robinson R22 struck wires after he did a reconnaissance of the proposed landing site by making a descending right turn from 500 ft. During the final approach, the helicopter struck the upper conductor of a dual-conductor spur line, running at approximate right angles to a main transmission power line. The helicopter struck the spur line two bays from the main line – about mid-span at a height of about 8.4 m (27.5 ft). The helicopter was destroyed by the impact and the pilot sustained serious injuries, while the passenger was fatally injured.

This accident occurred early in the morning and there was some low-level cloud. In this accident, the pilot had not conducted the prescribed reconnaissance procedure, and according to the ATSB, he would have had a higher probability of seeing the spur line if he had done so. The flat, (low contrast) ambient lighting was also probably a factor.

In a US NTSB report, the pilot of an Enstrom was flying down the Grand River at about 21 meters (70 ft), late in the afternoon and towards the sun. The helicopter struck power transmission wires strung across the river. The low sun angle and the low-level flight down the river were factors.

Avoiding Wires

The danger height for wire strikes appears to be from around 10 meters above the ground (telephone or electricity wires), to over 100 meters for high-tension power lines. Flying fox wires can appear anywhere, anytime, and at heights commensurate with the surrounding terrain. These are hardly ever marked on a map, and do not have significant supporting structures, or have high visibility markers attached.

The first and most significant defence against a wire strike is to stay out of the environment. If there is no reason to be low, then the aircraft should be flown at a height that will avoid the wire environment. The problem is that much of a helicopter’s usefulness is when it is down low, or landing in an outfield.

Part II on next post...

Reconnaissance & Precautions

Although property owners or ground crews may supply information on known wires, pilots should participate in all aspects of the reconnaissance, including from the ground, if possible. In addition to reviewing charts and talking with pilots who are familiar with the area, a pilot who is about to begin low-altitude operations should first conduct a reconnaissance flight at a higher, safe altitude. A reconnaissance for wires should take in a variety of angles to improve the chances of seeing the wires or their supporting infrastructure.

Complacency in the environment plays a significant factor in colliding with wires. Although the ground crew or property owners will usually tell the pilot about wires on the property, the pilot needs to be concerned about the ones not seen or forgotten about. Wire maps are good tools but should not be relied upon, because the position of wires can change, new ones appear, or are missed in a wire survey. Constant vigilance is needed – an overhead reconnaissance is extremely valuable, but even these can fail to detect wires such as those with support poles hidden in trees.

Many pilots have hit known wires. In the agricultural environment, known wires are often struck late in a sortie. Fatigue and complacency appears to play a role here. Pilots should have regular breaks, eat and drink properly to reduce the effects of fatigue, and avoid letting their guard down towards the end of a flight.

It is easy to become target-fixated when looking at a wire, and the distance from a wire should never be judged by looking at the wire in isolation. The use of a reference feature like a nearby tree should be considered.

EMS helicopter operations regularly operate at the critical wire environment heights, including around unfamiliar off-airport locations, and therefore face significant wire hazards. Often they have little time to flight-plan so they need to be especially aware. They should always be on the lookout and use triangular sighting, especially if crewmembers are in the cabin. They should be looking out to the forward and rear at 45° angles.

On approach to landing or during the reconnaissance-phase of a landing site, crewmembers should be watching for any elevated structures, or gaps in trees along the intended flight path. If there are a series of high towers or poles, pilots should always fly over one of the structures, as opposed to between them. This assures clearances, and avoids the near-invisible web of wires that may exist below. Crews should be careful though, to consider the existence of higher structures and wires in the vicinity of high-tension lines and towers already seen. Approaches should be slow and steep, and crews need to be cognisant of additional smaller telephone and electrical poles and wires that may have been unseen during the initial approach or reconnaissance. Crews should continue their scans during the entire approach, without fixating on any one object.

When departing the area, these same guidelines need to be considered. Pilots should concentrate on making a safe departure, and pay attention to the surrounding area for evidence that may indicate the existence of wires, including houses, barns, pump sheds, poles etc. Often there are spectators, media, family or friends on hand for the departure. Crews must maintain their professionalism, and avoid any impromptu desire to show off. Where possible, if the area above the helicopter has been positively cleared, a towering or vertical departure is advisable if power margins permit (especially twin-engine helicopters).

Helping the pilot
In some instances, spherical wire markers and wire-detection devices may help pilots to notice, and then remain aware of wires.

Spherical coloured markers can be mounted on power lines, communications lines, and guy wires at airports or helicopter approach areas, and at locations where wires cross over rivers and gorges. Some spherical markers used on electrical power lines are designed to glow as a result of the power line’s electrical field; other spherical markers are patterned for improved visibility, or equipped with flashing lights.

Detection Systems
In recent years, aircraft-installed wire-detection systems have been developed, including the Safe Flight Instrument Corp’s Powerline Detection System, that senses the electromagnetic fields developed by live electrical power lines, and emits an audible alert through the aircraft’s audio system and illuminates a red warning light in the cockpit.

The Hellas system, developed by Dornier, a subsidiary of EADS, uses eye-safe laser radar to scan the environment for wires and other flight obstacles, to provide optical signals and acoustic signals to warn pilots about their presence.

A system that was never designed to provide wire avoidance is Honeywell’s Enhanced Ground-Proximity Warning System (EGPWS). During flight tests where the locations of power lines were included in a computer database, the system delivered warnings of approximately 30 seconds to pilots, that their helicopters were approaching lines. Although the system is capable of delivering the warnings, its database lacks the required detail for all wires – but the database is being developed.

The Obstacle Collision Avoidance System (OCAS) is an idea of two former Royal Norwegian Air Force fighter pilots. The Civil Aviation Administration of Norway, the Air Force, and Stattnett SF, Norway’s utility company, support the work.

The system generates low power L-band radar signals from transmitters on mast-mounted antennae, near obstructions such as power lines or towers. It activates ground lights and warnings when a collision looms, and it then illuminates the obstruction, using any lighting near these structures. If the lights don’t convince the pilot to change course, the system broadcasts an aural warning on all aeronautical VHF frequencies at low power – to keep the broadcast from propagating beyond the immediate hazard area. The system also logs data on the encounter for later analysis.

When Avoidance Fails

When avoidance hasn’t worked, there’s the Wire Strike Protection System (WSPS) that is installed on the front of many military and some civil helicopters. WSPS was developed for the US Army and was designed to reduce the chances of the helicopter controls becoming entangled with a wire, with the ensuing catastrophic failure of the rotor system. The WSPS diverts the wire into the cutter blade assemblies affixed to the top and bottom of the frontal area of the aircraft, and these will usually cut the wire. The WSPS system protects 90% of the frontal area of the helicopter, and reduces the hazard from most wire strikes. With the WSPS, the pilot has a 95% chance of surviving a single wire strike. The odds of survival decrease as the number of wires increases. Two wires will reduce the chances to 75%, three wires to 50%, and four wires to about 25%. WSPS is not suitable for all helicopters though.

Wires are killers – and it is up to helicopter pilots to avoid them. Experience has shown that the best methods of reducing the risks associated with flying near wires are education, using valid procedures, and pilots being ever vigilant.


SIDE BAR:
Helicopter Accidents in the US
1996 and 2003
1,534 helicopter accidents recorded
89 (5.8%) attributed to wire strikes

1996 and 2000
30% of helicopter wire strike accidents resulted in at least one fatality
18% resulted in serious injuries.
14% of these accidents occurred at night;
57% of the night accidents were fatal

Data from the Helicopter Association International (HAI)


Helicopter Accidents in Australia*

1994 – 2004
13% of helicopter accidents attributed to wire strikes

122 wire strikes recorded**
38% of these involved helicopters
79% of these accidents were during commercial and charter operations
60% of those were agricultural flying.
38% of all helicopter wire strikes were fatal

* Data provided by Australia’s ATSB
**This figure excludes gliders, ultralights and gyroplanes.

[widgeon]

http://www.amphitech.com/english/s2/index.html


Saw these guys a couple of HAI's ago , they were flying a system on a CHC medium helicopter , not sure if they have delivered any.

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

Just a thorght but I was always tought and teach the safest way out of a confined area if power allows is to climb verticaly till clear of any obstructions including wires. However I was recently informed that on public transport work this is not allowed when there is enough space to permit a normal take off anybody know the regs on this and how they might effect the likely hood of a wire strike?

[WLM]

Is there a WSPS available for R44?
Thanks :{

[JimL]

Crazy,

For the take-off and landing phases; most regulations derive from the ICAO Annex 6 – Operational Standard, which (slightly amended) goes like this:Operations in Performance Class 3 shall only be conducted in conditions of weather and light, and over such routes and diversions therefrom, that permit a safe forced landing to be executed in the event of engine failure. The conditions of this paragraph apply also to operations in Performance Class 2 prior to the defined point after take-off and after the defined point before landing.States take this objective requirement, put in into their code, and publish it as regulations.

For the en-route phase of flight; most regulations are in compliance with the Standard of ICAO Annex 2 – Rules of the Air, which specify (apart from the take-off and landing phases) that an aircraft be flown at a height of 1000ft over built up areas and 500’ elsewhere. (It is difficult to fly into wires when at 500' AGL.)

In the UK (for those who operate to JAR-OPS 3); performance regulations are contained within the Subparts F, G, H and I and overall statement in the requirement for operational procedures in Subpart (D). The Rules of the Air are not prescribed in JAR-OPS, being one of the areas that is left to the individual States (i.e. rules are not harmonised).

If you are interested in a comprehensive debate on the take-off and landing phases, you might wish to visit the recent thread on Category A procedures found here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140896). Whilst this does not specifically refer to avoiding wires, it is covered in the discussion on a safe-forced-landing and exposure.

[ase engineer]

>>>>WSPS was developed for the US Army and

Actually it was developed for the Canadian Forces by Bristol Aerospace - a Canadian company despite the British name.

[CRAZYBROADSWORD]

JIML
Cheers chap will have a look see

[widgeon]

I heard a story , probably an urban myth , that the initial design was inspired by an incident where the large vertical antenna on an CF helicopter had severed a wire. Do they still test out the prototype installations by mounting em on a truck and driving into wires ?.BTW Bristol is now a part of Magellan

[pilotwolf]

WLM... I asked if these were being considered but Tim T's (?) answer was no because of the increased weight to the airframe would make it unfeasible.

PW

[plt_aeroeng]

Wire Strike Protection Systems are actually quite a complicated design problem.

The quoted 90% protection is not a reliable number. The frontal area protected varies depending on type and design, and can be much lower, perhaps as low as 60% if the design is not good. Some of the variables have to do with the dynamics of a wire strike well forward of the cutters, cruise attitude, rotor disk depth in flight, and various protuberances on the forward structure of helos. There are also issues with primary structure not working well with the wire cutters. The wire cutters depend on the forward structure passing the wires into the cutter, while in many types there is a tendency for the wire to dig in at some discontinuity or weak point in the structure.

Nevertheless, well designed WSPSs do provide substantial protection, typically for not a great deal of weight burden. The cost is driven by the analysis and testing required to validate the scheme for the particular type.

The various wire detection systems have the advantage that avoidance rather than accommodation can eliminate serious incidents. On the other hand, they are active systems with failure modes. The real reason why they are not making further inroads is that they all, at this stage, involve significant weight penalty in the range of 30-60 lb., and are quite expensive.

I'm told that Goodrich have a goal of bringing their avoidance system cost down to a level where the authorities could mandate use for medium/large helo installations.

That would be a good result, as wire strike risks reduce the effectiveness of a helo vs. fixed wing. At low level, it is often very difficult to see wires. I believe that some type of protection is very desirable for most helo operations.

[evod]

WLM, After flying in Indonesia dodging 1999 of those 2000 kites in the air i faxed RHC about WSPS. Reply basically said fittment of cutters was unfeasible due to not only the weight of the cutters but the structual changes reqd to the airframe to fit the cutters. I assume fitment of cutters ate to much into the payload of the machine. Shame as they may have come in handy cutting the 200mts of 50lb fishing line that wrapped itself around the pitch links and swash plate after not seeing that 2000th kite.

Cheers

:ok:

[Lu Zuckerman]

I was flight mechanic on a Bell HTL-1 (early model 47) and we were returning to base in Traverse City, Michigan. We had a leaky tail rotor gearbox so every fifty miles or so we would land and I would fill up the gearbox with of all things, fish oil. Very smelly stuff. My pilot, who had been involved in several crashes, was easily freaked out.

While flying in the left seat I was holding the oil can between my legs and reading a map. We were about twenty minutes out when the pilot saw a bear. He very excitedly told me to look. When I leaned over, my legs spread and the can hit the deck making a loud bang. The pilot thought there was something wrong with the tail rotor gearbox and he made a quick turn looking for a spot to land. In the process of making his maneuver he really made a hard over. On that particular helicopter type when there was an excessive side load on the mast it would cause the planetary gears to really growl.

Upon hearing that, he really wanted to get on the ground. He picked out a landing spot in front of what we later found out was a veterinarians office. To get from where we were to that landing spot we had to pass over a turkey farm and in the process we made the turkeys stampede and over 100 birds were killed in the pileup at the fence surrounding the turkey farm.

Oh yes, in the process of landing, we took out the vets' telephone line.


In another instance also in an HTL-1 we were landing between the tower and the main hangar at Dover Air Force Base in Dover, Delaware and in the process we took out the telephone line between the two buiildings.

[WLM]

PW thank you for the reply
EVOD You never told me about this mate....There I am zooming along looking for suitable fishing places you know where.....:O

Better increase my insurance cover I think:p
Cheers
WLM

[Vfrpilotpb]

Wire cutters will only work up to a certain diametre of wire, and will require a considerably forward motion to act as a cutter,
In any metal cutting be it Steel or non ferous material whatever cutter is used the actual cutter never cuts more than 20 to 30 %
of the thickness or the diametre of the object being cut, that is because of a physical attribute that in the metal trade is referred to as " Shear Break".

Steel as used in guy ropes is normally multi cored wound wire, and will carry a tensile strength of between 28 to 42 tonnes, copper is about half of that , but supprisingly Alu can be much higher due to design, so that it caters for such things as distance being strung out and velocity of wind, these are designed to cater for the once in a hundred years massive gale that would beat all others, so if you were to hit such cables at low speed the chance of a clean cut would be sadly not good, alternativly if you hit at high speed the strength of the cable would very simply rip the cutter from the heli body.

best to avoid at all costs!


Vfr:ok:

[snafu]

Three colleagues of mine were very fortunate a few years ago when they hit a set of domestic power lines. They were flying up a valley on a low level nav trip (military support helos) and were heading NE, approaching a village that was on the eastern side of the valley as the valley bent NW. A set of domestic wires were marked on the map heading West away from the village and they spotted a set of telegraph poles in the base of the valley orientated E-W.

They turned NW to follow the valley at about 150' and biased themselves away from the village to avoid it. They then saw a set of wires immediately in front of the aircraft and simultaneously pulled back on the cyclic and up on the collective. (As you would!!):ooh:

The wires went under the aircraft and at least one got caught around the tailwheel. It must have snapped some way away from the aircraft and been pulled across it, because there was scoring on the tailwheel yoke and a nice big witness mark around the tailboom! They landed in a field immediately in front of them and had to be recovered later by a downbird team.

Very lucky boys and a very sobering sight for anyone who later saw the airframe! Local village weren't too impressed with the inadvertent power cut either!:ok:

[Max Dover]

Just heard an Army Blackhawk has collected some wires near Mission Beach Far North Queensland - any more info?

[wishtobflying]

Lifted from D&G:


Sydney Morning Herald

September 26, 2004 - 12:21PM

The crew of an army Black Hawk helicopter escaped injury today after it clipped power lines and made an emergency landing in far north Queensland.

The accident happened during a joint military exercise, about 10km from El Arish, south of Innisfail.

A helicopter ambulance and several road ambulances were rushed to the scene but their services were not needed, a Queensland Ambulance Service Spokesman said.

A defence spokesman said the pilot of the helicopter had been able to make an emergency landing after it struck the power lines while taking part in operation Swift Eagle.

The military exercise had commandoes practising advance force operations such as seizing and holding a sea port.

The spokesman said it was not known yet how many people were on board the helicopter.

"The helicopter got down safely and no one was injured," the spokesman said.

He said an investigation had already begun into the cause of the incident.

Earlier this year six army personnel were injured when a Black Hawk clipped a tree during an exercise near Oakey, west of Toowoomba and crashed.

Australia's worst Black Hawk accident occurred in June 1996 when 18 people died after two of the helicopters collided during a night exercise in north Queensland.

AAP

[Arm out the window]

Do you reckon any news report can ever mention the word Blackhawk without containing a reference to the 1996 midair?

[sprocket]

The Journos must get a a hundred bucks for every extra word they can add somehow related to the topic and to hell with the sadness they may keep dredging up.

I can hear the Wok Woks mooching around in the dark at the mo. Must be NVGing.

[deeper]

A Bell 47 flown by the owner has hit a wire on takeoff from his property. The helicopter was based in the Mudgee area of NSW.

It may have caught fire and been destroyed, just out of a complete rebuild. Lots spent.:ooh: :oh: :oh: :{

[Haggis Hunter]

Ouch! Bit of a bugger that...

[plt_aeroeng]

I was going to suggest that wire cutter systems should be mandated for all new helos, which is a belief that I hold, but:

After reflection, wire cutters are probably not applicable to this situation. Presumably it is transition from hover, where a helo is very vulnerable to contact with ground/buildings/wires. It is however surprising that he would hit a wire in the immediate vicinity of his home base, but then I don't know the exact circumstances.

Nevertheles, wire cutters provide significant protection from strikes en route and, properly designed, with little impact on payload.

[Sandiron]

Anyone know of an EC-130 hitting wires in the Drakensberg in the past 24 hours?

[BAKELA]

EC-130???

Must be USAF if it's true.

The SAAF has C-130's (many marks, B's etc and a couple donated by the yanks...ask Deanw...but not EC-130's). Maybe AAC-130's. :E

[goaround7]

I think s/he means Eurocopter EC130, as in the one that Cathedral Peak uses for visitors.

Don't know of any wire strike though...

[Life'sShort-FlyFast]

Looks like it is true. It was the Eurocopter EC-130 based in the berg. Struck a cable that was set up as part of a slide. Amazing thing is that reports suggest that the ride was "sideways, then backwards etc" and it appears that the driver eventually put it in a field. All walked out. Now the surprising thing is this. During the incident apparently the machine lost a MR blade! How lucky were those guys!!! Man that must have been some ride!

[jeroen_kim]

November 4, 2004

By Barbara Cole

Nothing was going to stop Sally Ingram-Brown marrying Craig Bricknell yesterday, not even a terrifying helicopter crash on the way to the wedding.

And the traumatised, battered and bruised bride finally married her groom after he and priest had to be rescued from the top of a mountain. It all could have ended in tragedy.

The couple, from Durban, wanted a wedding that would make them feel on top of the world and had chosen a romantic spot on Devil's Peak in the Drakensberg.

The small wedding party booked into the Alpine Heath resort where the bridal dinner was to be held. A helicopter based at another resort was chartered to take the priest, the bride's mother, Judy Stead, and the groom's mother, Yvonne Bricknell, up to the wedding venue.

Then the pilot returned to collect the bride, who was decked out in a beautiful wedding dress, her sister Robyn Lambert, who was also her bridesmaid, and her husband Mike, who runs uShaka Marine World, and a photographer, Chris Hearne.

About a dozen people, including tourists, turned out to wave them on their way.

But then they watched in horror as the helicopter lifted, banked right and headed down the valley and straight into a cable (used as a foofy slide) strung between two hills.

As the cable smashed into the glass dome of the helicopter, it sounded like a gunshot, Mike Lambert recalled last night.

The glass shattered and imploded. The cable snapped and then wrapped around one of the four rotor blades. The helicopter began spinning and careered straight down the gorge at high speed.

The bride and bridesmaid were screaming and Lambert was shouting to the pilot to bank to the right. But the pilot, who was desperately trying to stabilise the machine, had lost his headphones and could not hear.

"I honestly thought that my life was about to end. I thought of my wife and children," said Lambert.


The bride said: "It was terrifying. It was the closest I've come to death."

Then, through some absolute miracle they spotted a piece of flat land at the bottom of the gorge and the pilot managed to lift the helicopter almost horizontally to crash land it in the field.

At first the occupants could not get out of the buckled helicopter as the doors were jammed. Then Lambert forced a door open and everyone piled out.

"The rotors were still spinning wildly and we were worried about being decapitated as we crawled away," said Lambert.

Their ordeal had lasted about a minute and left them in a state of total shock . "We couldn't believe it. We weren't even crying."

The pilot said he believed they had been hit by a bird, but Lambert showed him a gash in the helicopter were the cable left its mark.

The onlookers raced to the rescue and a vehicle was sent to return them to Alpine Heath where they were given some strong drinks. The bride had lost her flowers in the crash, her dress was slightly dirty and her make-up had run.

Meanwhile, the groom, the priest and the two mothers were waiting and waiting at the top of the mountain.

The women were becoming distraught as they realised that there must have been an accident.

With no other helicopter in the Drakensberg, Lambert chartered a helicopter from Durban to go and collect them from the mountain and, some four hours later, the worried group was flown back down to the hotel.

Once everyone was assembled, the wedding went ahead but in the Alpine Heath chapel.

"The bride wasn't too keen to get back in a helicopter," said Lambert.

The two Durban helicopter pilots inspected the crashed helicopter and declared it a write-off. "And they told us that if it hadn't been a Eurocopter, which is the safest in the world, we would have died."

[planecrazi]

Now that's a real story!

Very lucky people indeed!!!:ok:

[clipboard]

Who was poling the B4 as the article does'nt mention the pilot's name?

What a catastrophé! Sorry to hear about this.

[Phoenix Rising]

It was On Air's EC130 and I spoke to Genass this morning and they were on their way to look at the wreckage, seems like they were very very lucky to get out of it alive. Rego was ZS-RRP and it was their newest machine.

Genass said the pilot was Shaun or something similar as phone connection wasnt that great.

:E

[DualDriver]

Just spoke to a contact in Durban. The pilot's name is Vaughn (surname unknown) of "On Air"

[MicroFlyer]

Is it just me or is the writer (Barbara Cole) trying to make the Pilot look like an idiot and this Lambert guy like the hero?

At the end of the day, the Pilot was in control of the aircraft, and he executed the safe landing. He might've initiated the problem, but we're all human, and he certainly saved his own as well as the lives of his passengers.

It's also clear that there is major exaggeration in the article. Ticks me off!

My praise goes to the pilot.
:ok:

[clipboard]

If the pilot is Vaughn, then it must be Vaughn Gouws. Vaughn is a great pilot, ex SAAF & Sapphire. For him to end up in this catastrophy, something must have gone seriously wrong. I have a lot of respect for Vaughn, and it is highly unlikely that he would have deliberately done something stupid. There are a lot of possibilities, but I'm sure we will get the real story pretty soon.

Thank God there was no fatalities. Good luck to you guys. I hope you're all OK.

[Recuperator]

Clipboard & Microflyer

I can't agree more with you guys!

I worked with Vaughn at Sapphire, flew with him and seen him perform under pressure in Madagascar under terrible conditions.

Vaughn is not just a positive, conscientious and a nice guy; he is also a very professional and extremely capable pilot! He is someone I will send my wife and 3 month old baby with tomorrow to go and fly! (She might fall victim to his charm though!) :ok:

The article did distort the story as I heard it. Unfortunately that is the sensationalism that goes hand in hand with journalism. :mad:

The glass shattered and imploded. The cable snapped and then wrapped around one of the four rotor blades. The helicopter began spinning and careered straight down the gorge at high speed.

Last time I checked the Eurocopter EC 130 only has 3 blades... Thus she got the story second hand or she can't count... If she can't count, well let’s just leave it at that, enough bad writing done already...

Well done Buddy for putting the machine down safely and saving everybody’s lives!

Congratulations and best wishes to the wedding couple! If this is the worst you will have to endure in your marriage, my only wish will be to be there to share in the joy of your 50th wedding anniversary!:O

[Phoenix Rising]

Had a chat to a friend of mine who is very much involved with On Air. Yes it was Vaughn Gouws and he did a hell of a job landing the 130. Seems like he hit a 'flying fox', you have some other name for it in south africa. Basically where you hold onto a tbar and go for a ride down the side of a hill or across a river etc.

The wire hit the top of the window and broke, then played havov with the starflex and caused major damage to one of the blades to where it wasnt creating lift anymore. Havent seen the pics yet. He said there was also damage to the tailboom. Vaughn did a heck of a job to get the machine down on the ground.

At least they are all alive.

[Goldfish Jack]

Wasnt there a EC120 that went rolling about a few weeks ago in Durban??

Hey what you banana boys doing to those Eurocopters??? Or are they too big for you to fly????

[Recuperator]

Vaughn is not from Natal and he flew Oryx helicopters in the SAAF.

Keep up the good work painting runways, avoid the forums...;)

[Heliport]

ABC News Australia Crashes spark plea for better marked power wires

The national organisation representing crop dusters has renewed calls for power wires to be better marked.

The Aerial Agricultural Association of Australia says electricity wires frequently pose problems for pilots and should be highlighted with markers.

President Peter Mackay says aerial spraying is risky, but accidents can be prevented.

"Well, we'd like to see these power wires marked more openly. They are very hard to pick up from the air and in low conditions perhaps when you've got sun in your eyes, or trees in the background, or that type of thing," he said.

"So we believe there should be a lot more attention paid to the marking of power wires."

[Thomas coupling]

Out of curiosity, how would you like to see them marked?

[Thud_and_Blunder]

I suppose the dayglo orange spheres common in the UK and ME in areas where aircraft low-fly might be a start, TC. Don't know who'd pay for them, though - a lot of real estate to cover. Perhaps the landowners requiring the services of the ag-aviaition industry could be persuaded to cough up.

[Phoenix Rising]

The chances of that happening are a ****es show in hell. The CAA here in NZ took nearly ten years just to get a program going, to LOOK at what type of program would work best, and we have lost a lot more helos to wirestrikes than any country.

Watch this space, in say 10 years time.

:E

[Recuperator]

It is rumoured that the biggest power supply company in Africa said they will not mark powerlines as it will open them up to liability... :ooh:

[goaround7]

Too expensive more likely.

Electricity company will never do it in Africa because:

a) people who live nearby want them harder to see not easier. They'd rather they followed the lead of the cell phone companies' masts - painting them green so we can't see them at all until we fly into them and;

b) it just puts up the cost when the locals steal them to melt them down to make cooking pots or flog them to the local scrap metal dealer for US$5.00 for 50m. The cables and installation are expensive enough but you want brightly coloured plastic balls on them as well ? Forget it ! Local authorities have minority, ethnic, HIV positive, disabled dwarf dance troupes to support, you know...

STOP PRESS: minority, ethnic, HIV positive, disabled dwarf dance troupe\'s funding cut off after group arrested for power line theft.

[goaround7]

Hey ! Don't insult the Goldfish. He doesn't PAINT the runways; he COORDINATES the runway painting. Obviously well qualified to judge who should be flylng ECs or whether they are too big for them....

[helmet fire]

aesthetics V pilot lives. Simple equation where the green lobby has more votes.

This call came after the recent downing of two helicopters in Oz whilst doing Ag - and the saying that it is often the wire you know about that you hit in Ag applies to this one. I spoke to a farmer who was involved with the accident near Mudgee and he says they had set up a base for a locust reduction program at the pilot/owner's place. The helicopter was being repositioned by high hover to let a second machine get fuel when he hit the line in his own backyard. Fortunately minor injuries only.

[ATN]

Why not bury them, at least in places where they are a danger ?

The greenies should be happy, too.

ATN

[Lowlevldevl]

A few points.

1. They can't usually be buried. The insulation required to maintain the current carrying properties of the wire makes the exercise ridiculously expensive.

2.It would be a lot easier for the regulators to simply make it illegal for aircraft to fly any closer than say 100 meters from any wire or even ban aerial ag totally, rather than go to the expense of marking all hazard wires with orange balls. You couldn't expect the average brain-washed city-dwelling Joe Voter to waste much time agonising over that!

3.Me, I don't want their markers on any but the worst of the hazard wires. ie; long spans across deep gullies. Ag pilots are trained to look for the indicators of hazard wires (a) a reason to be there. Houses, pump-sheds, any building that looks like it may have a need for an electricity connection. (b)Power poles. (c) Insulators on power poles to indicate which way the wire might run off the pole. The wire is always the most difficult part of the structure to see because human eyes are not equipped to detect long thin objects like wires. You will see them if you look hard enough but you definitely won't be able to tell how far away they are until you get some other cue. Reflected light on aluminium wire from your lights getting brighter as you approach (night), seeing the pole in your peripheral vision, that sort of thing. Once you start training pilots to look for little accessory orange balls rather than the primary indicators I outlined above you will have more accidents not fewer because there will always be lines missed by whoever is in charge of ball-fixing.

The problem is in training. Fixed wing Ag pilots per hour flown hit far fewer wires than other pilots even though they spend much more time in the wire environment. They are taught to respect wires early. Take an ag-pilot flying sometime. Get down around 50 feet or so and go as fast as you can without doing a thorough recce first and see what kind of a rsponse you get. Unfortunately this is exactly the type of action that kills so many new pilots. Like I said, training! A helicopter ag-rating in Australia requires much less training than the FW counterpart. Mustering pilots get almost nothing by comparison. Hitting wires is the number one killer for helicopter pilots and always has been. Why spend so much time teaching pilots to navigate and so little to avoiding wires. Getting lost in a helicopter is potentially so much less devestating than having a wire strike. Of course I don't advocate less nav training, its just that I'm trying to give some perspective.

[deeper]

I agree Lowlevldevl,

Part of a pilots training should include stringing half a dozen wires at varying distances and heights at an airport or narrow gorge then we could zoom along climbing and descending and practice not hitting them, that would be great fun and very educational.:ok: :ok:

[John Eacott]

"Hiding" power lines has been a policy in NSW for many years: they made an issue some time back of how environmentally friendly :yuk: they are by painting the pylons matt green, and blasting the power lines to take the shine off them, so they won't upset the greeny's "wilderness experience".

FWIW, there is a statute on the books that prohibits flying in close proximity to power lines, at least here in Victoria. One unfortunate who hit a disused power line (400+ metre span from single poles, all lines to the poles removed many years previous to the accident) tried raising the issue with the power company. End result, he was prosecuted for hitting the power line :sad:

[Phil Hurst]

The Aerial Ag Association of Australia has been working with regulators and power companies for about 5 years on this issue.

So far:

We have an agreement with the Office of Chief Electrical Inspector in Victoria that the standard 45 metre exclusion zone does not apply to ag as long as certain risk management procedures are in place.

We have run a 3 year trial on markers in cotton country and they are now available in NSW from Country Energy at about $35 each (installed) - they are plastic white reflective markers of about 60cm square that can be applied to a live line as part of routine maintenance. Early days but we hope to have these nationally available.

We have initiated a rewrite of the National Standard on the marking of powerlines as the orange balls are too expensive etc. The committee is yet to meet but will hopefully also address not only the type of marker, but where they should be fitted (eg. long spans across valleys)

We run safety training programs focusing on human factors and powerlines etc - about two thirds of Aust. ag pilots have attended one.

There is progress, but it is slow...

www.aerialag.com.au

[Phoenix Rising]

Got these via email from a couple of friends in Sth Africa. This is the EC130 that had the wirestrike last week. As you can see was very very lucky.

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/drakensberg1.jpg


http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/drakensberg2.jpg


http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/drakensberg3.jpg


http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/Dawson/drakensberg4.jpg

[Hughesy]

:ooh:
Far out, lucky people.
Good job from the pilot to get it down though.
Hughesy

[oldpinger]

Pheonix-
Do you know any details as to how they hit the wires (angle etc) can't work out how they pranged the tail boom and the rotor head - unless it was the landing.

The picture of the rotor head- does that really show a broken starflex???!!!!:uhoh: :eek: if that happened in flight it'd bring tears to your eyes...

Then again if you ask eurocrapter they don't break ever.......

Again, the pilot was a bit of a guru to get it onto the deck safely and/or very lucky.

[Phoenix Rising]

Not sure but will see if I can find out. I understand that the wires broke and wrapped themselves around the aircraft, not sure how. And yes that is a Starflex with heaps of damage on it, see they do break :uhoh:

:E

[NickLappos]

I would take a wild guess and say that the sudden stoppage of the head (the act that broke the hub plate) and the large vibrations could have created torque spikes that caused the tail cone to fold. The damage on the tail looks lateral, and might be a buckling from that awful yaw/lateral spike that the wire caused.
Recall that film of the two Pumas involved in a midair, where the tail cone folded laterally from the vibration?

Wild ride coming down 'll bet. Hats off to the pilot to keep it all right and get it landed.

[Phoenix Rising]

Hey Guys,

Check out the thread in Rotorheads, posted a few pics I got from the Drakensberg of Vaughn's little "incident".

:E

[finalchecksplease]

Not wanting to take anything away from the pilot I think also a hats off for the helicopter makers (not just Eurocopter like in this case but all of them) for developing and designing helicopters that can take loads of “battle “ damage and still enabling the pilot to get her down!
Thanks for sharing those pictures Phoenix Rising.

[farmpilot]

Have a look at the African forum. Plenty of info on the wire strike there........

[Shawn Coyle]

Perhaps a bit of a silly question - why no Wire Strike Protection System?
It would have cut the cables from all accounts.

Do we have any pix of successful use of the WSPS anywhere?

[kissmysquirrel]

Okay, this post'll probably stir the s**t, but I see everyone praising the pilot for his sterling efforts getting safely to the ground, but isn't it strange that no-one has mentioned the fact that the wires didn't jump up and hit the helicopter, the pilot flew into them!! :ouch:
Make of it what you will.
Anyway, nice to see that the aircraft could have such an incident and be landed reasonably safely.

[oxi]

Gee they are an ugly looking thing, inside up frount...never did like that setup.

[the coyote]

kissmysquirrell

I'll bet he didn't fly into them deliberately! No one is immune to error. I dunno about you, but I reckon it's bad juju to say stuff like that.

Those that have and those that will.....

Well done to the pilot.

[Lowlevldevl]

The Coyote,
He didn't fly into them deliberately. He flew into them negligently.
Everybody makes mistakes but he and his passengers were very lucky that this one didn't kill them all. Them that has and them that will?...... thats Bull! Most wire strikes kill the occupants. Wires are the number one killers of helicopter pilots...period!
Professional helicopter pilots don't hit wires. Those pilots that do have not prioritised their risks.
Is it bad juju to discuss frankly an issue as serious as this?
Worse I think to heap praise on a guy who put himself in the position of having to use his superior pilotting skills to extract himself from a situation which could have been avoided by using his superior pilotting judgment.

[Heliport]

ABC Australia report
Helicopter groundings hamper locust fight

About 30 helicopters which were being used for locust control work in country New South Wales continue to be grounded in the wake of a fatal accident this week.

Other methods are being used to keep up the fight against the insects.

Two men died and a woman was injured in the helicopter crash near Dunedoo in the state's west this week which occurred during locust control operations.

The Department of Primary Industries (DPI) has grounded all helicopters while a review takes place.

The DPI has contracted an independent risk assessor to see if extra safety measures should be introduced.

It says while helicopters have been grounded, planes will continue to be used.

There have been nearly 650 new reports of locust hatchings in the past week which continues a downward trend.

[John Eacott]

These were passed on to me recently, from a film job in Utah where the wire strike spoilt everyone's day :eek:

How lucky was this chap, to pull off a 150 yard slide sans blades, tail and then spin 180 to face back the way he came, without rolling over. No luck left for the Lottery ticket, methinks :cool:

http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/pprune/Film%20wire%20strike%201.jpg


http://www.helicopterservice.com.au/photos/pprune/Film%20wire%20strike%202.jpg

[LowNr]

:ugh: Lucky is right, too often this ends with fatalities. Gotta HATE those wires - and keep a better lookout for them!!:uhoh:

[Vfrpilotpb]

Luuucky Chap,

looking at the mast it is difficult to see the top in any detail, therfore the question, when connecting with a wire does it rip the head off the shaft or cut through the actual mast.

The fact that the rear fuselage is missing is that from the rotor being forced backwards whilst still rotating and thus cutting thru the body, or is the cut caused by the movement of the wire?


At whatever state the pilot is in, he can fill in my lottery ticket next week!

Peter R-B
Vfr

[tecpilot]

Please gents be so kind and note the following picture :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v674/tecpi/2539030.jpg

BO 105 swashplate after heavy wire contact...
Sometimes the difference between life and death is only a few inches...
... in this case... luckily, the strong a/c :) and lady luck pointed to the crew side!

But unfortunately the pendulum swings mostly to the other side!

[212man]

Is that the pilot's adrenalin dripping off the tail end of the fuselage?

[on21]

Certainly one to tell the grandchildren. Glad everybody got out ok.

[MaxNg]

There was some years back a Bell 47 (J I think just fully restored) flown into wires, here in the UK buy the owner, whilst on final approach to his field at the rear of his resturant, what made this even worse for the owner pilot was that this happened on the night of his grand resturant opening in front of the local press, and further compounded by taking out the power to to this establishment as well.

I saw the A/c in the hanger, and if I remember it correctly it had the steel wire wrapped around the middle of the two pitch links and pulled them in to the main shaft without breaking them. I think it sustained minor damage to the skids and fortunatly no injuries, (other than bad press):rolleyes:

There may have been some pictures of this taken and if anyone has them they would be great to see here.

[Corax]

It's 2005, flying a helo without wire cutters is like driving without seatbelts and no air bags. This dude is lucky and glad to see nobody got hurt but if I were him, I'd demand wire cutters on my next machine.

[pilotwolf]

Nice idea corax but not possible for those of us who fly the more 'compact' machines....

PW

[blave]

most of you have probably heard of this, but there's a system available (or at least under development?) that detects wires based on their emissions. Of course this means that the wires need to be live to be detected, but it might reduce the occurence of strikes.

I wonder if the system would fit in an S300C? :D

http://www.safeflight.com/products/powerline.html

Dave Blevins

[GLSNightPilot]

VFRPilotpb, he can do what he likes with your lottery ticket, but he can't touch mine. He's used up all his luck for the next few decades. :uhoh:

[David Earley]

Wire Cutters are great things to have, but like most devices, have significant limitations.
They rely on speed to impart the cutting force needed to sever the wire.
If you are fast and low enough to hit wires, then they are a life saver. For those that have to operate down there at speed, they are a must. If you don't have to be there, then it could be argued that you may be lacking in wisdom.
If you are at speed and high enough that wires are not a threat, the 32kgs on a 412 (for example) is probably just dead weight.
If you are on approach, where you are in the wire threat environment,you are usually slower than required to be assured of cutting any wire you strike. In that case, the cutter is not likely to save your hide and any comfort it gives you is illusory. You still need to ensure you do not fly into wires through constant vigilance.
Where economics and performance permit carrying emission detecting gear, and you are fortunate enough to only encounter live wires, then it would be worth having. That is until the day the wire is not energised, such as an HF antenna or phone line, or deliberately strung wire trap.
That leaves us still needing to be very wary and not place unrealistic dependance on cutters, or detectors to keep out of wires.
One pilot I knew working on power line operations got hooked up with an earth wire at maybe 10 kts (before he stopped) which ran from the top inside of the rear T tail fin of a 500D down the side of the aircraft and across the glass of his door. It took a very clear head and hands to figure out how to get unentangled without the tail or main rotors getting involved.
The cutters top and bottom weren't much help.
This is not to say cutters are not very desirable bits of gear. Just don't think they are going to do you much good apart from fast collisions with wires, usually at cruise.

[Flying Lawyer]

Saw this story while in Cape Town last week -

http://www.news24.com/Images/Photos/20050421223914oos_kaap22.jpg

Cape Town - A helicopter carrying Eastern Cape social development MEC Christian Martin and MPL Temmy Majodina crash landed near Stutterheim on Thursday after apparently hitting power lines.
Provincial government spokesperson Sizwe Kupelo said the helicopter was on its way to Sterkspruit when the accident occurred.

The helicopter's blades hit power lines before going down, as the glare of the sun apparently blinded the pilot.

Martin and Majodina were not seriously hurt, he said. Martin told Sapa he was "lucky to be alive".
Speaking from another helicopter taking them to a child support grant launch in Sterkspruit, Martin said the helicopter hit a power line, which "smashed the front wind screen and sliced the metal... It stopped just in front of my seat."
He said the pilot was "very professional" and helped bring the "totally unstable" helicopter to a bumpy landing.

Majodina, the Eastern Cape's public works committee chairperson, said she heard a "big sound" before the helicopter spiralled out of control. "We don't want to blame anybody, accidents happen anyhow," she said.
Majodina had glass shards removed from her eye at a hospital, and Martin was treated for a sore neck.

[Time Out]

The report (http://www.atsb.gov.au/aviation/occurs/occurs_detail.cfm?ID=695) includes comprehensive factual information and finishes with the following:

ANALYSIS

Risk management options for application during an airborne task include reducing the consequence and/or likelihood of adverse events, such as an aircraft striking a power cable. Those options having the potential to affect the consequence of a wire strike include:


the use of helmets and wearing of full-cover clothing by aircraft occupants
installation of wire-strike protection systems
inclusion of advanced safety harnesses
appropriate flight following and search and rescue procedures.
However, in terms of risk, the consequence of an aircraft striking a power cable can generally be expected to be severe to catastrophic. As a result, a large investment is generally made by involved parties in order to decrease the likelihood, and therefore risk of a wire strike. That was the case during the 2004 Plague Locust Control Campaign.

The regulatory requirements affecting aircraft operations below 500 ft above ground level, including in the plague locust aerial support task, were an attempt to reduce the likelihood of an adverse event affecting a pilot during those operations. In addition, the Expression of Interest (EOI) mandated requirements affecting the acceptability of nominated pilots for employment in the locust survey task, indicated an attempt by the NSW Department of Primary Industries (DPI) to further reduce the likelihood of an adverse event during the locust control campaign. Also, the establishment by the operator of specific pilot low-level operations competency requirements defined an additional risk mitigation strategy that was based on the reduction of the likelihood of an adverse event in that environment. Both the DPI and the operator’s requirements were in excess of the Civil Aviation Safety Authority regulatory requirements, and were valid risk management options for application in the locust survey task.

It was likely that Rural Lands Protection Boards (RLPBs) relied on the pilot’s competence and experiential requirements of the EOI when considering the risks affecting their employees during aerial survey operations. The lack of any local control measure that would have allowed the Forbes or other control centre staffs to ensure that the occurrence and other pilots complied with those requirements meant that the Forbes, and possibly other RLPBs unknowingly placed its employees in a potentially higher risk environment than intended. Similarly, the residual risk inherent in the locust control campaign, including that of a wire strike could have been higher than initially accepted by the State Council in order for the campaign to commence.

The emergency nature of the 2004 locust control infestation resulted in the involvement of DPI and RLPB staff volunteers from throughout NSW in the locust control campaign. In addition, operators and pilots from many backgrounds and experience bases were also involved in that campaign. Those circumstances, together with the ‘living’ nature of the Standard Operating Procedures (SOP) and, in some instances verbal amendment process minimised the likelihood of the standardisation of airborne techniques and procedures among those operators, pilots and DPI / RLPB staff. That was confirmed in this instance by the recent consideration of whether a survey helicopter needed to land to examine the bands of locusts and the variation in knowledge of the content and application of the SOPs among the DPI / RLPB staff aboard the helicopter.

It was probable that the pilot was unaware of the rear seat occupants’ perceived lack of involvement in the identification of power cables or other hazards, or communication equipment difficulties affecting that process. That meant that the identification of any power cables and other hazards effectively rested with the pilot and senior ranger. It was likely that, having drawn the pilot’s attention to the wires to the west of the landing area, the senior ranger applied his concentration to the locust band in the paddock once the pilot commenced the final stages of the approach to land. In that case, the identification of the west to east spur line fell to the pilot. Although unable to be quantified, there was the potential that the pilot’s workload during the approach to land in the unfamiliar environment adversely impacted on his ability to detect the west to east spur line. The result was that no-one onboard the helicopter detected that spur line.

The abbreviated nature of the pilot’s induction meant that the pilot had to integrate relevant aspects of his low flying training and previous experience to the specifics of the locust survey task while carrying out that task. In contrast to the pilot’s likely intimate knowledge of the few power cables in the Kununurra area, the density of the power cables in the Forbes area, and the differing environmental and other cues indicating the presence of those cables, suggested that the pilot would have benefited from a practical consolidation of elements of the Chief Pilot’s brief. The lack of that practical consolidation had the potential to reduce the reliability of the operator’s low-level rating/approval/training requirement as a risk management tool.

Depending on respective pilots’ ratings and endorsements, there was a potential difference between survey and spray pilots’ knowledge and skills bases affecting the low-level locust control operations. Adherence to the DPI SOP meant that, in the event that a survey pilot did not have an agricultural rating, the pilot may not be able to contribute effectively to the identification and communication of low-level hazards and sensitive areas by an on board ranger or spotter. That could result in the ranger or spotter unwittingly omitting information that was potentially critical to the safe application of relevant chemicals by a spray pilot. Although a spray pilot retained ultimate responsibility for the safety of that application, the investigation concluded that the SOP compounded the risk of an unsafe or environmentally unsound application by a spray pilot.

The SOP requirement for locust survey pilots to fly along creek and tree lines in order to flush up adult locusts could be perceived to represent a form of mustering manoeuvre. Unless included as an individual operator requirement, or an individual pilot held a mustering approval or had completed low-level training, the SOP required pilots to conduct those mustering-like manoeuvres without the benefit of the competency-based mustering risk controls inherent in the requirements of Civil Aviation Order 29.10. In addition, that procedure placed pilots in an environment identified by the Chief Pilot as being particularly dangerous with regard to power cables and other hazards. There was the potential that the SOP manoeuvre requirement could combine with those environmental dangers to increase the likelihood, and therefore risk that a pilot might strike a power cable or other hazard to unacceptable levels.

This investigation identified the potential for the application of relevant risk management strategies to reduce the residual risk affecting a low-level aircraft operation to a level considered acceptable by that operation’s stakeholders. The majority of the investment in risk management in that environment was found to be in the reduction of the likelihood of an adverse event. In this occurrence, the lack of a robust application of existing risk controls to the locust survey task resulted in the level of residual risk, including that of a wire strike, being above that intended by the State Council, and considered by respective RLPBs when approving the employment of their staff in airborne operations. The investigation was unable to quantify the contribution of that elevated residual risk to the development of the accident.


SIGNIFICANT FACTORS


No-one aboard the helicopter identified the spur line overhead the intended touchdown point in sufficient time to allow the pilot to avoid impacting the wire.

SAFETY ACTION

Operator

The Chief Pilot has amended the company procedures to include the requirement for pilots to restrict the number of persons carried during locust survey operations to two. That was in order to increase the anticipated helicopter power margin, which would decrease the incidence of pilots being constrained to the conduct of heavy, shallow arrivals and departures to/from landing areas.

Civil Aviation Safety Authority

On 31 January 2005, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) convened a round table discussion to consider potential safety activities relating to the conduct of aerial work in proximity to power cables. The participants in that discussion included representatives from relevant industry associations and other bodies and affected Government departments and agencies.

CASA has commenced planning to facilitate a conference in September 2005 involving relevant industry associations and other bodies and affected Government departments and agencies to further progress those safety issues confronting aerial work operations that were identified during the 31 January 2005 round table discussions.

Aerial Agricultural Association of Australia Limited

The Aerial Agricultural Association of Australia Limited has nominated to be included in the Standards Australia committee responsible for the development of the standards affecting the mapping and marking of power cables and their supporting structures.

The NSW Department of Primary Industries

The NSW DPI has commenced an iterative approach to the review and amendment of the NSW DPI / RLPB SOP for Locust Control. That has included:


involving an operator having extensive experience in the conduct of plague locust campaigns in the re-development of the SOP
deleting the requirement for low-level flight along tree lines in order to flush adult locusts up and ahead of the helicopter
developing standard Task Profiles for the aerial survey and spotting tasks that include the following operating height limitations:
- locust survey, not below 500 ft AGL
- locust spotting, not below 100 ft AGL
promulgating minimum personal protective equipment requirements for the conduct of locust survey and spotting tasks
promulgating a minimum crew composition for locust survey and spotting tasks of one pilot and one aviation trained observer. That observer is to be provided by the aircraft operator, be appropriately trained and have a minimum of 50 hours aviation experience. The aviation trained observer is responsible for assisting the pilot with:
- the operation of the aircraft
- identification of hazards and their avoidance
- mapping identified locust infestations
establishing an observer position, which can include carriage of either RLPB / DPI staff or local farmers in the rear of the survey aircraft. If carried, that observer has responsibility for assisting the pilot with:
- local knowledge, including property boundaries and owners and environmentally sensitive areas
- identification and mapping of locusts infestations
other than approved observers, prohibiting the carriage of back seat passengers
prohibiting flight by RLPB / DPI employees below 100 feet AGL
amending the flight following and search and rescue procedures.
RLPB and DPI staff members likely to be involved in locust control helicopter operations have completed the National Parks and Wildlife aircraft operations awareness course.

ATSB

The Australian Transport Safety Bureau has commenced a research project that is examining the potential influence of contractual structure and organisational interaction on the safety of aviation campaign operations such as invertebrate pest management and airborne fire-fighting activities. That examination includes the responsibilities for the management of the unique risks inherent to those types of campaign, and seeks to highlight risk mitigation options for consideration by future aviation campaign participants.

When complete, the research project report will be published on the ATSB website www.atsb.gov.au or be available from the Bureau on request.

[plt_aeroeng]

Wire cutter systems have been getting more penetration (sorry for the pun) in recent years, although they still aren't considered standard fit on helicopters which may be vulnerable to flying into cables.

They also are not really the final solution, more the equivalent of the fast jets' ejection seat. As a one time fast jet pilot, I regarded that as a welcome backup capability, but declined the few opportunities I had to use it. Wire cutters may increase your survival probability, but still leave you with a very bad day.

Laser cable detection systems are reaching the market, and are in service in Italy and Germany. They appear to be under consideration in the US DOD. Their biggest disadvantages are the current cost ($100K ++) and high weight (min 25 lb.) The cost may start coming down now that production is increasing, but it will take some time. My belief is that weight reduction will be much slower.


What is the level of awareness in the operational community of the capabilities and limitations of these systems?

Is there a consensus in the civil operator world as to the cost at which these systems will be attractive enough that many will procure them?

Also, how much of a barrier is the payload penalty? Presumably on large twins it would not be significant, but on a 206 class it may be too much to bear.

Over to all.
;)

[twinstar_ca]

i think any form of WSPS only has to save your butt once to be appreciated.. :cool:

[heliduck]

Twinstar has hit the nail on the head.
As with any safety improvement which costs money I believe it will be the government/corporate contracts mandating these devices in aircraft they hire that will bring them into service. They also have the capacity to pay a higher hourly rate to compensate for the device, & if that means hiring a 206L for the job instead of a 206 so they can carry the extra weight I believe they'll do it. "Duty of Care" has far reaching consequences & if I was a government dude spending tax payers money I certainly wouldn't bare my arse to the lawyers for the sake of a few hundred dollars/hr extra! R44 operators will be watching these developments with interest as the R44 cabin isn't strong enough to support manual WSP, but with 1 passenger could carry this type of equipment. My solution to avoiding a funeral due to wires has been drink lots of water, no beer & a good night sleep. Not to mention that recurring dream - wires, wires, wires, wires.......


Lowlevldevil - What is the murmerings in the Ag industry on wire strike protection these days?

[Milt]

The power lines across the Hawksbury near the junction with the Colo river came within a nat's whisker of taking me out way back in an S-51 doing flood relief.

Those lines still do not have any visibility spheres fitted.

Beware.

[B Sousa]

Twinstar gets my vote. The simple wire strike system looks ugly, a little expense above and beyond. But I have seen it used and it works.
I have lost many friends to Helicopter Grabbers, anything that will let me keep a beer drinking buddy alive is OK in my book.

[McGowan]

Some good points already. I have WSPS fitted to the Bell 407 I get around in and I must say, it is a nice bit of kit but it doesn't or shouldn't stop you from looking out for wires. If you miss the gap they still get you..........
But then I suppose you don't really hit the ones you know about or see, it's the ones you DON"T see.
I haven't had to pay for the system but it does leave you with something of a warm glowy when you are making approaches to properties out in the sticks where wires can be anywhere that Farmer Ed feels like stringing them. It does assist with your wellbeing a little bit.

[Heliport]

Threads merged.

[MightyGem]

WSPS are great if the wire hits the cutter, and doesn't go through the gap between the top of the cutter and the rotor disc. As it did on the Australian Army 206 that I was following. :(

[Aser]

Do you know of any wire detector using mmw radar?

I know of laser or magnetics ones...

Thanks.

[Civis]

Does anyone have links to above?

Thanks

[The Nr Fairy]

See this piccie of G-BXKL (http://www.caa.co.uk/applicationmodules/ginfo/ginfo_photo.aspx?regmark=G-BXKL&imgname=G-BXKL001&imgtype=jpg).

[Aesir]

http://iserit.greennet.gl/waltere/DSC00458_resize_resize.JPG

Here´s another 206 with WSPS.

[H1HU]

http://www.huey.co.uk/galleryhuey/tn_27.jpg

[paul 2007]

You should find some interesting INFO about wire strike equipment here :rolleyes:

http://www.crescentair.com/spares/wskits.htm

Interesting article
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/galkie/wire.html

good animation / explanation
http://www.aero-access.com/images/aa/showcase/wirestrike.html

NOTE: THIS IS NOT AN ADVERTISMENT FOR ANY COMPANIES THAT MAY BE SHOWN

[widgeon]

Bristol used to have a video that showed some testing ,
Has much happened with wire detection systems ? . some years ago there were several that were coming on the market

[Civis]

Just what I needed, much appreciated.

[remote hook]

I'd pay to see a photo of one in action....

RH

[bladewashout]

Is it just me that would be nervous about the wires in this landing? The camera may be misleading but it looks like he goes right under them just before touchdown!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ9IRJ6epko

BW

[Stringfellow Dork]

I think they're just floodlights - not wire-poles (i.e. there are no wires strung between them)...

[2nd2none]

Can anyone give me some information about helicopter wire cutters. Not products but research, how do they work and how effective they are?

Thanks awfully. :ok:

[Rich Lee]

You can find information at this website:

http://www.atsb.gov.au/publications/2006/pdf/wirestrikes_20050055.pdf

This from a WSPS manual:

The capability of the WSPSâ to protect against
damage due to a wire strike has been
demonstrated by Bristol Aerospace Limited
through extensive ground tests using a truck–
mounted helicopter fuselage and various wires
and cables, including a single span 10M (10,000
lbs. minimum breaking strength) cable and a
combination of a 10M and a polyethylene shielded
communications cable (100 pair, 24 gauge
insulated copper wire). These tests were
conducted at various speeds up to 60 miles per
hour.
The effectiveness of the WSPSâ to protect
helicopters against wire strike damage involving
wires and cables commonly used in the North
American rural environment was verified by the
U.S. Army through pendulum–swing tests
conducted at the NASA Impact Dynamic Test
Facility at Langley, Virginia. Tests against a
single span of an 11,000 lb. minimum breaking
strength steel cable were conducted using the
OH–58A, UH–1, OH–6A, AH–1S, UH–60, and
AH–64 helicopters. Swing tests against multiple
spans of electrical and communications cables
with combined strength in excess of 23,000 lbs
were conducted using the OH–58A helicopter.
These tests were conducted with the helicopter in
a horizontal position at time of cable impact. The
test results for the OH–58A are presented in U.S.
Army Applied technology laboratory report No.
USAAVRADCOM–TM–80–D–7, entitled
“Investigation of Helicopter Wire Strike Protection
Concepts”, dated June 1980.
The effectiveness of the WSPSâ to protect
helicopters against wire strikes involving wires
commonly used in the European rural
environment was verified by Aerospatiale
helicopter division through ground wire strike tests
conducted at the French Army CEV/Istres test
facility. A truck–mounted, WSPSâ equipped
Gazelle helicopter was driven into three spans of
Aster 147 electrical cables (.625” diameter, 19
strand aluminum electrical conductor) with
combined tensile strength of 32,100 lbs. The test
results are documented in Aerospatiale report
341A.06.2479.JdG, dated 1 October 1986.
Flight tests are conducted to determine the effect
on aircraft handling characteristics and radio
disturbances, etc., by various military and civilian
authorities on WSPSâ equipped helicopters for
the purpose of product certification. No in–flight
wire strike tests to verify the system capability
have been conducted.

[toolguy]

Has anyone, or does anyone know of a crew, that survived a wire strike with the cutter gear working as advertised?

[Matthew Parsons]

Yes, there was a Bell 412 involved in a wirestrike a few weeks ago. It was a small power line, about 1/2" diameter. No visible damage to the aircraft.

[212bushman]

Toolguy,another incident occured some 20 years ago by a Aussie UH IH. I heard it was seen by a Victorian farmer hitting & cutting 2 wires. This made the frame pitch up initially,& then down as each cutter did it's job.
The a/c landed & upon insp ,could only find a dent/ding on the underside of one blade.

[waspy77]

Follow the link below to an article about Selex s LOAM laser based wire detection system

http://213.152.249.18/Rotorhub/Default.aspx?Action=745115149&ID=9b490645-9646-488c-a10e-f160de36f083

[Crashking]

most of you have probably heard of this, but there's a system available (or at least under development?) that detects wires based on their emissions. Of course this means that the wires need to be live to be detected, but it might reduce the occurence of strikes.
I wonder if the system would fit in an S300C? :D
http://www.safeflight.com/products/powerline.html
Dave Blevins

Good idea and good point. I'm just a private pilot and not a pro like you guys, but the single most important piece of info I know about wirestrikes is very rarely publicized, so I'll put it here. On all sizable cross-country power lines (pylons can be of any type) there is, in addition to the supported conductors, a grounded lightning arrestor cable. Its purpose is to act as a lightning rod and to carry strikes to earth first thru the pylon itself rather than have the lightning travel the conductors and mess with the powerlines. To do this it has to be a bit higher than the rest of the structure. The LAC is typically much thinner and harder to see than the conductors, and it is stretched more tightly from pylon-top to pylon-top. Look for them the next time you see a big power pylon, a long thin wire from the top of the pylon to the next ones. Many a pilot has flown over the "sag" in the cables only to meet the LAC many feet above it. I reflexively look for them and am astounded at many of them there are and how hard they are to see. And since they normally carry no current, they wouldn't register on an emission-detecting wire avoidance system. But they're there, a fact well known to the power companies. And now YOU. :ok:

[vortexstate]

Attended a job with a power authority the other day whereas we filmed a set of 11,000 volt power lines that had to be re-erected after a R44 collected them. Seems several weeks ago, the R44 was flying low along the river and hit the lines only to fuse them together and they broke. :ouch: :ouch:
The R44 didn't crash, I don't know how, but kept going along it's merry way. The wires came down between two tents at a camp site luckily missing everyone. One of the unhappy campers rang CASA and informed them of the situation.:oh:
I bet the pilot went straight out and got a lottery ticket after emptying his pants.

[maxeemum]

Just interested as to where the lines are (location of incident) as there is a chap that lives in my area that owns his own R44?

Thanks,

Max

;)

[BlenderPilot]

We just had an Airbus A320 clip a whole set of 120K volt powerlines during approach to MMZC, one set of wires broke against the nose gear and engines and the other slid all the way back to the vertical stabilizer and snapped.

Now that is a new one.

Mexicana A319 hit power lines during approach
Air Transport Intelligence news
Rainer Uphoff
Tue, 10 Oct 06 08:24:16 GMT

Mexicana has admitted that one of its Airbus A319s was involved in a landing incident during which the twin-jet struck power lines on final approach to Zacatecas Airport in central Mexico.

The crew of the aircraft, a three-year old example bearing the registration N882MX, immediately aborted the approach.

A spokeswoman for the airline confirms the details of the 24 September incident and adds that the crew opted to proceed to Guadalajara, rather than attempt another landing at Zacatecas.

Guadalajara Airport, she says, was chosen "because of the better airport and maintenance infrastructure available". It is unclear whether the CFM International CFM56-powered jet suffered any damage.

[MPT]

G'day Maxeee,

There's a report of a R44 II hitting wires 41nm NW of Bowral and sustaining damage to both MR blades. That sound like the one?

Betcha the wires that the plane hit resurface with markers attached and I betcha the ones the Robbie hit don't!!! They even mark wires for cranes up here, but not helicopters, oh no........:ugh:

Cheers,

MPT

[robsrich]

On Sunday 12 November, The New Zealand Herald reported on an accident involving an R44 helicopter. It is summarised below in the interests of flight safety. Full acknowledgement (with our thanks) is given to reporter Miles Erwin and The New Zealand Herald.


Bravery of 'speared' pilot

Sunday November 12, 2006
By Miles Erwin

The family of a helicopter pilot last night told how he saved the lives of his three passengers - despite having been speared in the stomach by a steel power line after crashing into power cables.

Paul Sutton, a pilot at Scenicland Helicopters in Greymouth, was flying three police officers on a search mission when he crashed into power lines near Punakaiki. The windscreen smashed as the severed cables sliced through the cabin.

As Sutton fought to control the chopper, a 3cm piece of wire pierced his stomach, lodging in his intestine.

Bleeding heavily, the 30-year-old father of two managed to fly the Robinson 44 aircraft 500m to a beach, where he made an emergency landing and evacuated his passengers. Realising the helicopter could be reached by high tides, he then flew it 50m to high ground and 500m further to a paddock.

Sutton is recovering in Grey Base Hospital after three hours of surgery. He is expected to make a full recovery.

His relieved family told the Herald on Sunday they were amazed by his bravery and skill as a pilot, saying he had been working "on adrenalin".

His mother Linda Sutton said: "I think he just went on overdrive. He knew he was hurt but he didn't realise he was so bad. As soon as he landed he made sure his passengers were okay. I can't believe he did all that. I don't think anyone realised he was as badly hurt as all that."

She said all the occupants were incredibly lucky, especially as the power lines had been disconnected for maintenance.

"There were other bits of the wire in the back seat as well as in the passenger seat.

"They were bloody lucky - it's just one of those things."

Linda Sutton said the passengers didn't really know what happened initially and feared they had been shot at. Moments before they struck the cables, they were searching for evidence after the recovery of a naked male body two weeks ago.

"The chopper never vibrated. He knew something had happened but Paul just kept his calm and landed it. His chest was bleeding. It sounds like they thought they had been shot at," she said.

Sutton's wife, Kim, said he told her he was trained to look for power poles. But the pole was obscured by trees and he flew straight into the wires.

The three police officers were unharmed, and the machine was undamaged except for a broken windscreen.

The NZ Transport Accident Investigation Commission is investigating the incident.


End:

[robsrich]

On Sunday 12 November, The New Zealand Herald reported on an accident involving an R44 helicopter. It is summarised below in the interests of flight safety. Full acknowledgement (with our thanks) is given to reporter Miles Erwin and The New Zealand Herald.


Bravery of 'speared' pilot

Sunday November 12, 2006
By Miles Erwin

The family of a helicopter pilot last night told how he saved the lives of his three passengers - despite having been speared in the stomach by a steel power line after crashing into power cables.

Paul Sutton, a pilot at Scenicland Helicopters in Greymouth, was flying three police officers on a search mission when he crashed into power lines near Punakaiki. The windscreen smashed as the severed cables sliced through the cabin.

As Sutton fought to control the chopper, a 3cm piece of wire pierced his stomach, lodging in his intestine.

Bleeding heavily, the 30-year-old father of two managed to fly the Robinson 44 aircraft 500m to a beach, where he made an emergency landing and evacuated his passengers. Realising the helicopter could be reached by high tides, he then flew it 50m to high ground and 500m further to a paddock.

Sutton is recovering in Grey Base Hospital after three hours of surgery. He is expected to make a full recovery.

His relieved family told the Herald on Sunday they were amazed by his bravery and skill as a pilot, saying he had been working "on adrenalin".

His mother Linda Sutton said: "I think he just went on overdrive. He knew he was hurt but he didn't realise he was so bad. As soon as he landed he made sure his passengers were okay. I can't believe he did all that. I don't think anyone realised he was as badly hurt as all that."

She said all the occupants were incredibly lucky, especially as the power lines had been disconnected for maintenance.

"There were other bits of the wire in the back seat as well as in the passenger seat.

"They were bloody lucky - it's just one of those things."

Linda Sutton said the passengers didn't really know what happened initially and feared they had been shot at. Moments before they struck the cables, they were searching for evidence after the recovery of a naked male body two weeks ago.

"The chopper never vibrated. He knew something had happened but Paul just kept his calm and landed it. His chest was bleeding. It sounds like they thought they had been shot at," she said.

Sutton's wife, Kim, said he told her he was trained to look for power poles. But the pole was obscured by trees and he flew straight into the wires.

The three police officers were unharmed, and the machine was undamaged except for a broken windscreen.

The NZ Transport Accident Investigation Commission is investigating the incident.


End:

[bomb]

I would go by a lotto ticket after that.

Bomb

[bomb]

I would go by a lotto ticket after that.

Bomb

[Whiskey Oscar Golf]

Jim,
Recon is the best way to avoid those wires. Plenty of it and all over, there are some nightmare spots out there, SE Queensland springs to mind around all those coal fired power stations. Not just those big buggers, the swer lines are the ones that surprise you.
Every person I know that hit one knew they were there but it was something else that caused the strike. Big fence posts, terrain jumps,livestock, people, vehicles etc. Some of them said nothing would have helped others said a more complete recon might have avoided it.

Check the charts and they should be marked but nothing beats the eyeball. Mark em on your nav so they pop up when you're close.

Good luck

[bushy]

Lots of ag pilots and others are dead, as a result of running into wires. Much could be done, by the power companies,to prevent this. But very little is done. This is probably because the electricity organisations were government run.
It IS possible to make wires and poles much more visible. Sure, it costs money, but lives are worth money.

I guess someone will have to sue them to make something happen.

[scrambler]

Should we make it user pays? Should the cost of making every wire visible be borne by the Consumer or the people whom we are trying to protect from the wire?

[AB139engineer]

Has anyone out there been through wires with a Wire Cutting kit on? I guess there is no need to respond if you have and they didn't work.

- can anyone else give us an idea on how well they work.

I know a pilot back in the late 80's that hit a unmarked power line with a Jet Ranger and he survived thanks to his helmut.The wire cutter kit worked and the machine suffered extensive damage, as it crashed into a lake after impact with the wire.The helicopter was rebuilt and still flys today.

[scooter boy]

What I think would really help is to have all the HT wires added on to the GPS database - they can put them on the quater-mil chart so why not the GPS database. Reading a map in the 44 is difficult at the best of times and when you really need to know where the wires are you can bet that the map is the last thing you want to get out.
It would be really helpful in those situations when you end up hopping over the lowest plyon while trying not to be enveloped in the murk.
Clearly there are lots of other just as dangerous cables out there but the HT ones are usually the highest and would be a good start.

SB

[Colonal Mustard]

If your that low then it is`nt safe to fly, backtrack from whence you came and set down, that`s what choppers are for...........:ugh:

[CYHeli]

Scooter Boy, according to your profile, you have an Instrument Rating. As a Doctor, I thought that you would be able to do a better risk assessment and make a better plan.
Don't go skud running to avoid the murk, land or go IFR. There is no middle ground, dragons with long metal teeth (wires) await you there...:eek: That's why there is a lowest safe.
IMHO, wires are not your problem, airmanship is... Fly safe for your family & friends.

[Bravo73]

Scooter Boy, according to your profile, you have an Instrument Rating.

I'll save you the barracking that you're probably going to get, CYHeli.

SB does have an instrument rating - but it is an IR(A), not (H). He owns a fixed-wing aircraft as well as an R44.

From what he writes on here, SB seems to be one of the most safety concious (and sensible) PPLs who post on here.


:ok:

[alouette3]

Question for the grizzled rotorheads: At what speeds are helicopter wire strike protection really effective?
The reason I ask is because a fellow helicopter pilot and I had a 'freindly' debate on the need or the effectiveness of wire strike protection in HEMS helicopters. Don't get me wrong, I will take any device that saves me from balling one up.But, given the typical EMS profile,is it (more often than not) required? The only time I would need wire cutters (to use the crude coloquiolism) is going into a scene in poor visibility or at night. Assuming I have done the recce and the folks on the ground have given me the location of the nearest powerlines,but, as it happens, we both missed one. Would the cutters work if I engaged one at almost hover prior to landing?
I seem to remember some data that suggests that they are effective upto 15 knots of forward speed but not below. True or false?If true, where can I find that data ? Coming back to the assumption, I don't ever go charging into an LZ ,day or night at anything like 15 knots. And, on my way to work,I cruise at altitudes where Edison and Bell have not done their dirty work,yet. In fact, the big issue these days is cell phone towers that are burgeoning all over the country.
All input appreciated.
Alt3.

[widgeon]

I recall talking to one of the engineers at Bristol Aerospace some years ago , the Max certified speed was determined by the maximum speed the truck they used for testing could reach on the runway in Winnipeg , I do not recall a mimimum speed

[aclark79]

True (15 knots and still effective). It has been shown to work in real world conditions at speeds of 15knots. Of course there are a number of factors so its not going to work all the time.

[Ag-Rotor]

I reckon if a helicopter can be fitted with a wire strike kit and is predomenantly operated low level you should have one installed.I fitted one to a H 500 when I was using one on Ag work and although I was fortunate to never have to use it, it gave me a feeling of being on the frount foot should I encounter a wire. A chap who did some work with crash investigation's,once told me that the odds for one wire survival was as high as 90%, and an evan 50% when multiple wires involved, thats significant. Another piece of equipment that if you don't have it, its no use to you and if you do have it, it might just save your life.

[ChopperFAN]

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