Who supports the amphib and arctic operators?

[sstaurus]

I was just thinking about all the amphib and float operators in the tropics and along the coasts, and ski/float operators in the far north and arctic. What are they going to do when their Otters, Beavers, Grummans, etc etc wear out? (what other ones are used?)

Is it basically only Cessna who makes small/midsize floats/skis anymore? I can only think of the Caravan as an option (besides small 172s and the like). Piper? Bombardier only produces the CL-415 now.

Anyways, just food for thought, as Bush flying really interests me.

Thanks for your input!




PS.. why won't Cessna and Piper produce their 2-seaters anymore?

[Genghis the Engineer]

PS.. why won't Cessna and Piper produce their 2-seaters anymore?
Because they can fill their production capacity with 4+ -seaters, on which the profit margin is greater.

Also because there are many smaller companies who can produce new 2-seaters cheaper than P&S, so why compete with them if you can make loads of money in areas they can't compete with you?

G

And in answer to your other question, there are a few options. (http://www.wipaire.com/products_floats_new.html)

[sstaurus]

Thanks for the reply.

Actually I was wondering about what kinds of aircraft specifically, instead of the floats themselves. For example what alternatives are there to the Beavers and Otters when they become too old?

[Opssys]

sstaurus.
An interesting question.
But I was looking at the Chalk's Airline Site the other day and their Turbo Mallards are still going strong, they are still talking about putting their Albatross fleet back into service. So they are not looking for a replacement type this decade.

The Floatplane operators continue to be able to find Aircraft to replace their losses, or provide expansion. Perhaps because as long as it is economic to keep Otters, Beavers, etc in good repair there is NO market for true replacements. The fact that these types are of pensionable age doesn't matter as long as spares are readily available they will keep going (Perhaps the most amazing being the Martin Mars). Tight Margins, affordable parts, airframes still available, these operators are NOT going to create waves to push for replacement types.

If a reasonable market was perceived to exist then Beriev, Bombardier, Shin Maywa Industries Ltd and possibly Piaggio would dust-off their design studies from their archives and start the process of updating them.

Hmm.. Piaggio P136 Royal Gull the almost ideal runabout as there are no Short Sealands Airworthy!
DIH

[JDK]

Interesting Q.

Age isn't an issue, servicability and airframe life are the limits, and that doesn't seem to be an issue.

They've (Mallards, Beavers etc) mostly gone from pistons to turbo-props already where it makes sense.

I love the Sealand, but it was an awful aircraft; compared to the Goose and Mallard, why would you bother? Shorts had to reposition the engines, due to aero and hydro dynamic problems, it was grossly underpowered, and the Norwegeans had to take the wheels off theirs to operate sensibly - a clear backward step.

Interesting you mention the Mars; having visited FT, it's a fascinating Op and story. They've been waterboming since the 60s setting some record of continuous operation in the same job for 45 years, or almost half the history of heavier than air flight. Though they are under permanant threat of 'retirement' due to cost cutting, there is nothing in operation to compare or replace.

New is not necessarily better!

[Conc]

I read a report recently that a company is going to re-start production of the Grumman Goose. Not sure what changes they intend to make if any to the design but sounds interesting.

[Gordon Fraser]

And don't forget the Noorduyn Norseman - first flown, with floats, in Nov 1935.
There are still over 20 on the Canadian register, scattered across Canada, and most still with floats.
A true workhorse - 70 years old and still going strong in some of the world's harshest flying conditions.!!

[canadair]

fair question,
but since the Otter at 51 years of age is showing no signs of a downturn, and the Beaver the same, then they are really only as old as their relative components.
There were almost 500 Otters built, the vast majority of survivors are now being converted to Turbine, ( Vazar PT6, Garrett, or Walter) and those not yet done will no doubt eventually be converted.
Of 1600 plus Beavers built, there is still an amazing number of operating aircraft, and it is interesting to see that many are on their second, third, fourth, etc lives after rebuild from major incidents. ( many Otters are also complete rebuilds) and Beavers continue to be converted to Turbine as well, but not as many as Otters.
So as long as the aircraft are rebuilt after any incident they really have no life limits, and there are NO replacements to the DHC 2, DHC 3, DHC 3T.
Look at the choices, Caravan 208 on Amphibs? it has never found favour with the Otter operators, performance, ease of maintenance, and utility, all are limiting. Beech 18 on floats? too many limitations, Twin Otter, not the same category, this new Quest ( small Caravan wannabe) and there are a couple other, 1 aus, 1 italian attempt as well.
Bottom line, nothing does the job as well as either a Beaver or an Otter, never has.
The best replacement for a Beaver, is another Beaver!
What may eventually ground the DHC 2/3 fleets is insurance, it has already had a major impact on some Beaver / Otter operators, as the rates have skyrocketed.
It is interesting to track the last 5 yrs of Beaver prices, they reached a high of 600K, but you can now pick up a nice Beaver for 300-350K usd, BIG difference, and that is a direct result of insurance.

[gerpress]

A couple of years ago I had the chance to fly the HARBIN Y-12. A Chineese made aircraft, definitely made to replace the TwinOtter, powered by P&W-engines, fully equipped with US-made avionics. The Y-12 is certified by JAA and FAA, marketing is done by a canadian company. Floats are already available, a wheel/ski-version might come up soon.

[nosefirsteverytime]

Strangly enough, beriev seem to be making headway with the Be-200. "Portugal buys for firefighting" (http://en.rian.ru/russia/20051018/41809747.html)

Not a replacement, but an interesting development.