Female Army Captain Leaves Pistol and Ammo is Supermarket Toilet

[FJJP]

In 40 years of service, I thought I had witnessed just about every act of crass stupidity known to man [or woman].

But this takes the buiscuit. Army Captain from Intelligence [sic] on military exercise goes into Sainsbury supermarket to use the loo. Takes off webbing belt, complete with holstered 9mm pistol filled with blank ammo and promptly departs, leaving it behind.

Surprise, surprise, when she twigs and rushes back to retrieve said webbing, it's gone.

Balmpot, or what? For a start, in this day and age, what on earth possessed her to carry a weapon in a public place? And into a supermarket? Is this another weapon on the streets in the wrong hands?

As a military officer she is supposed to have a reasonable level of effective intelligence and common sense...??

Words fail me. I will be interested to see what the court martial gives her...

[Trumpet_trousers]

Army Captain from Intelligence

Oxymoron?

[On_The_Top_Bunk]

Already posted

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=194528

Rumour is that there were 2 persons on CCTV entering the disabled toilet. :oh:

[ZH875]

Nope, just a :mad: MORON

[SilsoeSid]

With a thread title like;
Female Army Captain Leaves Pistol and Ammo is Supermarket Toilet
I can only assume that FJJP knows said person and doesn't think too highly of her!

However, to be fair, I think I'm correct in saying that they do get cleaned every hour!

;)
SS


p.s. I was told off for starting a thread on this subject without carefully searching! link (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=194528)

[seven4mankind]

Jesus Christ.
Showing off, were we ma'am???
Jesus Christ !!!!

:uhoh:

[VigilantPilot]

Maybe I'm wrong on this, but I don't think people here are thinking about the right type of exercise.

According to the media, the Army Officer was from intelligence. Military exercise does not have to mean cammed up and in combats while the field doesn't literally have to be a field.

[RileyDove]

Time for 'Supermarket EOD Sweep' !

[Data-Lynx]

Captain Khazi (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=16257344&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=captain-khazi-name_page.html)
Occasionally, the Mirror gets the spirit just right.

[adr]

Takes off webbing beltWhere did you get that information? It'd be a curious preference over the gucci clip-on waistband holster that, er, somebody from, er, somewhere, would normally wear on, er, exercise; but if she was indeed wearing a webbing belt, it's a different kettle of fish entirely.

adr

[Champagne Anyone?]

Army Captain...... A Lady.... in uniform.... with webbing on.... Under the uniform..... With a weapon...... Oooooooohh.... suits you maam, suits you!!

(must admit the RAF blue does it for me every time!!:O :O :O :E :E :E )

[Zoom]

It's a sad enough event but I suppose one could say that we all make mistakes, but we don't all steal things. So what does it say about people (females, even) in Britain if the very next person in that particular loo keeps the gun rather than hands it in to the police. That's the really sad part.

[An Teallach]

Apparently it was the disabled toilet. I suppose the Sig will turn up after the next wheelchair-bound bank robbery. :E

[Trumpet_trousers]

Apparently it was the disabled toilet. I suppose the Sig will turn up after the next wheelchair-bound bank robbery.

"I want dat one......."

(with apologies to Little Britain..)

[Two's in]

However crass, moronic, etc, etc, this seems, the only real issue is that this one made it to the papers. Service personnel have been losing weapons since they were first issued with them. Normally much embarrassment and a BOI, but they usually turn up. As Zoom points out, losing it was negligence, stealing it was the real crime (but undoubtedly the CM will hone her weapon handling skills a treat).

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Good grief:rolleyes:

"losing it was negligence, stealing it was the real crime"

Just when you think you have heard it all someone comes up with a gem like that :}

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Pontius Navigator]

In Akrotiri we were not allowed weapons in the mess. We had to leave them in the cloak room - bullets and all!

[Stafford]

I know Pontius,

The food really was that bad :}

[Clockwork Mouse]

If she is what I think she is, she is a brave lady undergoing the toughest selection and training in the world in preparation for one of the most dangerous jobs, protecting us and our loved ones. She screwed up and presumably her future in that line is now destroyed.

Of course the press will sieze on the story to trot out their puerile bile: how can they resist a combination of girl, officer, weapon, toilet?

But if you posters are soldiers of whatever colour, cut out the self-righteous and ignorant girly remarks unless you know what you are talking about.

[bodach]

.. presumably her future in that line is now destroyed.

I would have thought so, thereby saving herself and possibly others from suffering far more prejudical consequences from any such "screw ups" that took place in an operational environment. Train hard, work easy :ooh:?

It just seems such a basic, elementary error to make, especially if the lady in question was training for *that* outfit.

[Incipient Sinner]

Honestly though, which of us can really say we've not done something similar :uhoh:

[Zoom]

I can for one. I've done some daft things but nothing remotely 'similar'.

Anyway, the last time I put my weapon on the cistern in a public lavatory ..... no, I won't go down that route.

[Squadgy]

Pistol now found, in a post box apparently :confused:

[airborne_artist]

Not forgetting the Wg Cdr who was on his way to/from Northwood, and left his briefcase containing highly classified paperwork at the car supermarket that used to be on the A40, now on the N Circular, in about 1991/2.

WTF was the lassie doing taking a weapon albeit loaded with blanks, into Sainsburys'. Has she no shame? Fortnums' certainly, Waitrose perhaps, but an officer in a shop for common people? Was it her batman's day off?

[adr]

WTF was the lassie doing taking a weapon albeit loaded with blanks, into Sainsburys'. Has she no shame? Fortnums' certainly, Waitrose perhaps, but an officer in a shop for common people? Was it her batman's day off?
Oh, really. Surely it's obvious, old man? Part of the selec^H^H^H^H^Hexercise is to see if one can go into Sainsbury's without running out in horror or blushing and bimbling around in confusion drawing attention to oneself. There are times, in some lines of work, where sacrifices have to be made.

Of course, Sainsbex is an early exercise. A more demanding one comes later, for those outstanding few who get that far: yes, that. Kwiksave.

:ooh:

adr

[Talking Radalt]

Maybe she should've gone to Asda.....
The self-administered smack on ma'am's ar$e would've alerted her to the missing shooter. :E

For cold weather training do they shop at Iceland? :)

[Onan the Clumsy]

Not forgetting the Wg Cdr who was on his way to/from Northwood, and left his briefcase containing highly classified paperwork at the car supermarket that used to be on the A40, now on the N Circular, in about 1991/2. or the BIGOT documents that turned up in a taxi :8







btw, the real training comes when you go to B&Q and have to improvise your own weapon out of various bits of hardware...then leave it in a hastily dug latrine.

[Talking Radalt]

the real training comes when you go to B&Q and have to improvise your own weapon out of various bits of hardware
Onan, don't be silly, that's the A-Team. :rolleyes:

[Wyler]

Give the girl a break. I heard she was busy adjusting the volume on her MI6 Love Eggs (Use Internal Only).:cool:

[Talking Radalt]

Of course, Sainsbex is an early exercise. A more demanding one comes later, for those outstanding few who get that far: yes, that. Kwiksave.
So that was Operation Kwiksave that we saw at a certain police station in Basrah last month? ;)

[Zoom]

And don't forget the naval officer who left his work-filled laptop on a towpath or similar. It must have worked for him since isn't he now very, very highly-placed in the Senior Service?

[Talking Radalt]

isn't he now very, very highly-placed in the Senior Service?


Something about a barrel? :confused:

[WE Branch Fanatic]

......on her MI6 Love Eggs (Use Internal Only).

Surely that would be MI5?

[snafu]

As career moves go, leaving classified on a towpath as a Commander is obviously the way to go. You get to become Chief of Defence Intelligence later in life and then First Sea Lord!:E

[Onan the Clumsy]

......on her MI6 Love Eggs (Use Internal Only).

Surely that would be MI5? actually no. I have it on good authority that it's a Japanese thing :E

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

I have every sympathy with the military personnel involved. She had the equipment with her because it was required and she made a simply mistake. That then got bumped up into a media event.

Those without sin.

I once took 4 rifles plus ammo out of stores in an unauthorised vehicle resulting in a Signal from London. There never was any consequence or threat but the hailstorm of official cow**** was a wonder to behold.

I suspect this woman was in training for a role deserving an incredible amount of respect far beyond that derived by the average officer or serviceman. A slip, a media splash and hopefully no fatal blow to a career.

Cheers

WWW

[West Coast]

Most important of all, what does she look like?

I remember back to the GW, the classic when the ATO was left in a hotel room in Spain by a USAF type. I imagine his ass still hurts.

[ORAC]

Well, somebody has released her name to the press, and her picture can be found on the MOD web site. Might I suggest somebody pull it? Perhaps someone can also suggest what purpose was served in releasing her name to the press, and in their publishing it?

The Times: Army loses assault rifle in exercise

An assault rifle capable of firing 700 rounds a minute has been lost by the Army — the second weapon its senior officers have misplaced this week. Nearly 900 troops searched for the SA80 rifle after a sergeant-major lost it during an exercise in the Brecon Beacons national park in Wales.

The embarrassing loss comes two days after Captain Alice Bromage left her handgun in a supermarket lavatory. Police yesterday arrested a man aged 20 from Ickleford, Hertfordshire on suspicion of theft by finding in connection with the incident.....

[airborne_artist]

OK, fess up time ...

I never mislaid my weapon, in all my service, but I did "help" someone mislay his gat.

'Twas on an E and E in the Black Mountains, when Gary (who lost his life in the Duxford L39) and I were trying to get through a stop line in front of a choke point that we had to pass through.

A pair of Blues and Royals didn't see us approach them, in broad daylight. Rules of the game were that they could capture us if they covered us with a weapon at 25m. We were about 2m away when we jumped them. One was unarmed and ran away, the other had an SMG. After a tussle Gary got him in a full strangle hold, when he then surrendered to us. We took the SMG and dropped it in the long grass about 25m away to slow him down.

At endex Gary and I were summoned to the Training Major and the OC Hunter Force. TM gave us a large rollocking and told us to find the gun asap, and a big wink as we left.

Gary and I were told to find the Gazelle pilot, and within a minute of landing we had found the SMG. OC Hunter Force was quite relieved, I heard later.

[SilsoeSid]

Orac,

Just for you, a link with her picture is here (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005480235,00.html) with a write up that goes;

"TONY Blair sings the praises of Army girl Alice Bromage — who blundered by leaving her loaded gun in a supermarket toilet.

Captain Bromage, who is in her 20s, met the PM when he visited a base in the Gulf state of Oman in 2001.

She was said to be on an intelligence mission when she left her Sig Sauer 9mm in a disabled loo in Sainsbury’s in Hitchin, Herts.

She was tipped to work on top spying missions and surveillance operations — but her bungle could set her career back.

An MoD spokesman said: “It’s too early to say if anyone will face disciplinary action. The priority is to track down the missing gun.”"



What a brilliant cover story for a bit of spying work. You'd never think she'd get into the SIS now.

Just like the cover story in 'Who Dares Wins'.

Bigger pic from MoD website (http://news.mod.uk/img/pressdatabase/images/supportingImages/large/ss2_pm1_tn.jpg)

[Zoom]

Back in the 60s while on Exercise King Rock in Germany, some cadets stumbled upon a Ferret (scout car, not wildlife) parked outside a gasthof one lunchtime with the keys in the ignition. It belonged to the pongoes who were supposed to be tracking down said cadets during the escape and evasion bit. The temptation was enormous but they didn't give in. They did, however, take the maps from the vehicle. The amount of cr*p that flew in the wake of that made the cadets wish that they had taken the vehicle as well.

It reminds me of the time I didn't lose my aeroplane. I left the jet - with absolutely no weapons on it and the ignition keys safely in my pocket - on the pan and went for a leak. When I got back, lo and behold, my jet was still there. Has anyone else suffered from a similar, amazing coincidence?

Must getting near the end of this one now.

[snapper41]

I think you're all missing the essential point of this...which is, what was an officer doing in Sainsurys?? Waitrose at the very least!

[Data-Lynx]

It is enlightening to know that formal MoD Press pics, for which the military and particularly aircrew are required to present themselves, can be so easily and quickly be offered back to the reptiles if you make a horlicks later in life. One wonders what other pics lay apart in http://news.mod.uk/img/pressdatabase/... The pic of Capt AB was one of many taken during Ex Saif Sareea II at Sha'afa in Oman back in Oct 01. It is facinating that it is the one with the PM that was offered up, presumably because the Sun had managed a copy from another source. OK, another good officer makes a public mistake and will live with the career/embarassment factors. Agree with Incipient Sinner that it is time to move on, obviously, but all this NEC IT stuff could mean that some of those happy smiling Squadron pics now in MoD storage could be back to haunt future miscreants.

[Training Risky]

Does anyone else here think that this trend of "oh well, there but for the grace of god...those without sin...etc,etc! is totally misplaced!!:*

This woman was obviously training to enter a very high tempo operational role - nuff said on that.

She has now displayed an alarming lack of situational awareness and disregard for SOPs (leave the gat in the wagon outside with a guard?)

How can she not be RTU'd when there is doubt about her awareness and capacity?

[BlueEagle]

If they want her to stay she will be forgiven, if not, she will be RTU.

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Can there be anyone else LESS likely to make such an error again?

I say again - those without sin.

Cheers

WWW

[Training Risky]

That's not good enough.

An RAF pilot under training (or even limited CR) can be chopped for a lack of capacity which could lead to him and his crew/pax facing death or injury.

An Intelligence officer who loses highly protectively marked material, which could possibly endanger lives in the wrong circumstances, can be court-martialled and sacked.

Had this weapon not been recovered from its negligent loss and been involved in a bank robbery/mugging, and a civilian suffered death or injury, I would expect criminal charges to be firmly laid at the door of this woman.

[alexmac]

Maybe she should have gone to one of those fancy, automatic washing portaloo's - then when the weapon was left behind it would have got stuck in the plumbing system when the entire toilet turns upside down for cleaning....something to bare in mind for next time :rolleyes:

[JNo]

I bet her fella will never get an earful again about forgetting to put the toilet seat down

[Talking Radalt]

On a lighter note the photo in The Scum is the next caption competition surely? :E

[SilsoeSid]

Surely nothing along the lines of;

AB - Oh No! How did he get THAT, I thought I had removed all those prints out of the photocopier after the last Sqn party!!!


No wonder the pic brings with it the comment;

"TONY Blair sings the praises of Army girl Alice Bromage. "

Link to piccie. (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005480235,00.html)

[FJJP]

An Teallach

She's a bampot. And that comes from one who flew throughout GW1, the Former Yugoslavia and others you don't know about. All voluntarily.

There but for the grace of God most of us DO NOT go. Not with guns. In 40 years of service I never came close to misplacing a single bullet, never mind a gun. And neither has anyone else I served with. It's called awareness, responsibility and respect for a very dangerous piece of equipment.

FJJP

[Talking Radalt]

I'm with you FJJP...
Surely THE most fundamental SOP for everyone from Pte to Field Marshal applicable to any and every operation regardless of it's tempo, speciality or secrecy is to never become separated from one's personal weapon.
To use the nature of the job/training as justification is as unprofessional as misplacing said weapon.


And for us non-edjicated erks, just what the blinking flip is a "bampot"? :uhoh:

[An Teallach]

Having served in both blue and brown, I have to say that the actual opportunities to have a PPW to lose in blue were so few and far between as to be negligible. Caring for a weapon between armoury and cockpit is hardly analogous to the situation this lady was in.

Personally, I think the mods would do the reputation of both PPRuNe and the Forces a favour if this entire thread were consigned to the bin, as they did with the other "Wooooo Someone Else Lost a Gat" thread.

TR - A bampot is an eejit.

Understanding / mitigation is not justification. The lady will very probably be RTU'd.

Why assorted military saints on PPRuNe feel the need to crow about her unfortunate error and put the boot in while she is down is beyond me. Perhaps the answer lies in the fact that the thread title is not "Army Captain Leaves Pistol & Ammo in Supermarket Toilet."

[DP Harvey]

Yep, I did wonder why the sex of the officer was considered relevant in the headlines. Its almost as though there is a point to be made by mentioning it. However, I have no issues with the individual's name being released. Name and shame provides deserved embarrasment and is such a good deterrent.

[Vox Populi]

It wasn't anyone from the 'powers that be' that passed her name to the press, it was someone from the cops.

In the civvie world her name would not be in the public domain (until (and if) charged with an offence), the cops see to that.

The mod press office however has no relationship with the press at all so were powerless to prevent her name appearing. All they ever say is NO COMMENT - red rags to a bull I'm afraid.

vp.

[gijoe]

Mods - please pull this one for opsec.

FJJP - knob

A T - well said.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

"Mods - please pull this one for opsec." Good grief:rolleyes:

If her fizzog is splashed all over the "current bun" and other nationals what an earth is the problem with a few opinions being aired on here, opsec my ar@e:yuk:

DP raises the gender issue and I wonder how, those of you who have spouted "there there, bless, could have happened to any of us, there but for the grace of god" etc etc would have treated this subject if it had been an RAF, male Cpl who had porked up in this manner.

I am not saying your comments are commision or gender based but I seriously doubt that I would have seen any of the pink fluffy "pat her on the head cos she's only a girl" tosh that some have posted.

The person in question has screwed up in BIG way and will have to take their medicine, like most I hope it's not too bitter a pill but this is an extremely serious offence, the implications of which are just too hideous to contemplate.

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[woof]

Opsec my arse.

Not only did she leave her pistol in the loo, it was a DISABLED one at that! Twice she has broken the rules. What next, parking in the mother and child whithout a baby.

Tusch!

[PPRuNe Towers]

Opsec claims? Nah

Career limiting move discussions welcome.

rob

[airborne_artist]

I think you're all missing the essential point of this...which is, what was an officer doing in Sainsburys?? Waitrose at the very least!

May I refer the hon. member to my earlier post:

posted 18th October 2005 12:01
WTF was the lassie doing taking a weapon albeit loaded with blanks, into Sainsburys'. Has she no shame? Fortnums' certainly, Waitrose perhaps, but an officer in a shop for common people? Was it her batman's day off?

And as for those who said, "but for the grace of God..."; well, the bit of the green machine that I was lucky enough to serve with would have kicked me into civvy street in a nanosecond if I'd left a weapon in a public place, so if the lady gets away with an RTU, then she's done well, IMHO.

[Zoom]

I too feel that the media should have made no mention of the captain's sex - then we could have given the captain the real blasting that the captain deserved without fear of being accused of sexism.

I get the impression that the 'there but for the Grace of God....' brigade spend their lives in a state of insipient calamity, waiting for the next personal disaster to unfold. It's as if they feel that it is only God who is stopping them from c*cking up, rather than themselves. If we c*ck up, we should blame ourselves; if we don't, we can take the credit for applying our own good judgement.

For the posters who keep quoting 'Let those without sin.....etc', tell that to the judge/magistrate/CO next time you transgress. Sure, we all make mistakes and if we didn't we would all be living on a higher plane than this. But we should be able to learn from our mistakes, and part of the learning process is accepting criticism and responding wisely to it. I'm sure that the good captain will have the opportunity to do just that.

And to those who want threads pulled when they don't like the content - just change channels.

[Training Risky]

Good, so these aren't the ravings of a madman then.

There are people out there who see the serious side to this.

[FJJP]

OK, I am sorry I entitled the topic 'Female' Army Captain. It is a matter of supreme indifference whether the individual is male, female, commissioned or non-commissioned, Navy, Marine, Army or Air Force.

The point is - what the hell was a member of the Armed Forces doing carrying ANY weapon in a public place, never mind losing it.

This whole case leaves me speechless at the stupidity and lack of awareness of it all...

[Oh, and gijoe, thank you for your well considered and tactful assessment of my character. And, erm, where does opsec come into the argument?]

[XFTroop]

:cool:
As "SPOOKS" is now a female lead short, maybe there's a place for this lady; after all, she is sort of photogenic and also apparently is sort of trained in The Biz!!
:cool:

[Hilife]

With it being intuitive for the male to hold on to his weapon at all times whilst visiting the john and also to holster it before leaving, one has to wonder whether the ladies could benefit from a spot of ‘hands-on training’ in order to prevent a repeat of this unfortunate incident during future exercises?

[6Z3]

"This whole case leaves me speechless "

Hardly, matey, hardly.

[FJJP]

Haven't said a word.

Let my fingers do the talking... !

[An Teallach]

FJJP

Cx your PMs. Cheers