OZ - IR issues, EBA's & T's & C's (All Australian Airlines)

[TightSlot]

Use this thread only to discuss IR issues, EBA's & T's & C's for Australian based airlines.

Threads started elsewhere on these issues will be merged into this one.

Abusive and/or hareful posts will be deleted by the moderators, and those posting will be banned.

Over 2 U

[SydGirl]

This thread is going to get very confusing.. considering there are already discussions about :

Australian Airlines
Qantas Long Haul
Qantas Short Haul
Eastern/Southern
Sunstate
Virgin Blue
Ozjet
Skywest
Rex
QantasLink
Antipodean

It's going to be very difficult to keep up when they are all in one thread. Can't we keep them seperate? Different airlines with different issues. They will all just get lost if they are all merged into one thread.

Just MHO.
SG
:}

[GalleyHag]

I have a feeling Australian's are no longer wanted on pprune as it will become more and more difficult to use. Therefore any new member wanting info on a specific Australian airline will just not bother.

[IBAR-ONLY]

I agree galley hag,
The message is loud and clear, no discussions or opinions allowed, I'm not going to bother looking here as well its become a joke.
Goodbye to everyone even the people who I felt like screaming at, I will find another site that allows at least seperate threads, in the short time that I have been reading this I did enjoy the banter. HAve a look at the statistics, it showed Australians as the 2nd most viewers, and yet they are a smaking us on the face.

[B A Lert]

Nothing's anti-Australian! Maybe the mods are simply sick and tired of you precious few slinging muck at one another without the addition of any serious thoughts. Ever heard of the saying 'you reap what you sow.? Oh damn - why I am I wasting time and bandwidth on a few uneducated and uncouth knuckleheads???:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

[mouse78]

Okay, we are all on edge about he EBA etc. I know we work long hours for cr-p pay! But there must be some good news stories around!

Maybe more of you need to taste the life at Club Mildura!

Happy Flying! And for gods sakes keep smiling!


:ok: When you see a smiling face in the bar book, just look out for the MQL girls!

[TightSlot]

No, we're not anti-Australian. (Yawn). A little bit of searching and investigation in this forum will reveal why EBA threads are collected in one place - Largely because a sizeable minority of Australian crew were unable to discuss the subject without abusing each other and anybody else that popped up, in short, without following the rules of PPRuNe.

Things have settled down a bit now, but until there is some confidence that normal Rules Of Engagement have been established, this thread will remain as the collection point for EBA discussions.

The latest person to prove the point is IBAR-ONLY who prefers to rant and rave at the mods rather than to actually read and investigate, thereby establishing the history and precedent: An impressive level of knowledge and aggression from somebody posting for only the fifth (and now last) time!

A large number of Australian crew post in here on PPRuNE - this does not provide any inherent right that exceeds the rights of other nationalities. Quality has a value in here, not quantity.

IBAR-ONLY is now forum banned - You'll probably be able to find him/her in the other forums Dunnunda & Godzone (http://www.pprune.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=24) which have been thoughtlessly provided by PPRuNE as part of our ongoing anti-Australian campaign to drive Australians out and stifle dissent and discussion.

[B A Lert]

Well said TightSlot! We used to think that the Poms were great whingers but I'm now not so sure that the assertion still applies after trawling through a lot of the abuse and personal invective that has been posted. . Anything to get rid of the whingers and moaners who invariably resort to personal abuse has to be a good thing. Go for them. :ok: :ok: :ok: :ok:

[ozskipper]

Errrm, we're not ALL whingers :)

[TightSlot]

Quite correct, ozskipper
;)

[SkySista]

And the other quarter of us are just moaning about the whingers!!! :}

TS, if people calm down, will the posts about different airlines get moved in to airline-specific topics?? (Just wondering :))

You mods have to put up with a lot, I wouldn't have the patience to do what you lot do!!! :D

Though I admit, giving us our own D&G forum was just the most insulting thing possible....! :p :E :}

[m00ving_on]

Sometimes a heated discussion is worthwhile. I agree that merging all eba discussions into one thread will get confusing.

[flyblue]

You mods have to put up with a lot
Especially Tightslot, OZwise :E :E :p

[MELBRO]

Hey SYD base crew

Any news on Saturday's EBA meeting. I know we are suppose to discuss these issues on that other thread, but im hoping the moderator will make an exception. Unfortunately we are sometimes kept out of the loop down in MEL/MQL bases.

Any news would be greatly appreciated.

[lfdlfp]

B A LERT,

Given the "mudslinging and personal insults" that pepper your posts, it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

The moderators should send you a warning message.:hmm:

[TightSlot]

Aaaaah, normal service has resumed at last... For a moment there I was worried that you'd all decided to be nice to each other. Silly me! :p

[m00ving_on]

I wasn't at the meeting but I heard that nothing new or interesting was said...;)

[OZcabincrew]

so what's happening with you guys and career progression? nothing by the sounds of it?

[qcc2]

anyone knows where the domestic eba negoiations are?

[gigs]

given the way things are and have been going in per. i believe 8 day trips are on the cards. 5hrs flying of eastern standard time which ive heard from union rep. and,higher hours for full time crew ie instead of 123 being a roster 130-140 may be a roster. now this is my opinion of what the company will go for and,not what i may wish to happen....given as mentioned 40% almost casual s/h crew that cant vote and a percentile of senior crew who may wish to do the big shopping trip on an every now and then basis,excited junior crew,youd have to ask what percent will vote on a whats best for me basis? anyway we all shall see in time cheers gigs

[OZcabincrew]

I think it will be a big NO to the next EBA. I have also heard from a union rep that they've been approached by the company with the intention of 9 day trips? It really depends on the base in regards to the international flights, who does them etc as international flying in Perth short haul is junior anyway, you can't get a domestic duty anywhere if you're junior! your entire roster consists of "regional international" trips and that is it! There are people that haven't done a domestic flight in 5 months, so, it will be interesting to see how the individual bases vote.

just waiting for the next update

Oz

[gigs]

problem that exists is say hey gigs 9 day trip you want syd per then japan. so,what i mean is a per o/night now has japan for what extra cost?// little as to productivity. not trying to eliminate you as a crew member on this patten oz but me thinks the company may! now given the voting ways of different levels of seniors and zero casual vote??? it will be interesting to see what happens. wish us all luck cheers gigs

[blondeontour]

well QF have decided to change the rules..all future new perm f/as will be on AWA 's..so there is no more progression as the current f/a's are under eba agreements..as EAA has expired they have 12 months to neg a new EBA OR qf can then give all f/a's at EAA a new AWA.This is the new IR laws coming into the workplace ...don't believe the fed govt advertising

[speedbirdhouse]

The ignorant fools who voted for howard have no one to blame but themselves..................

[OZcabincrew]

gigs,

i may be a little stupid, but i didn't really understand one bit of your last post.

[gigs]

a possible purpose of 9 or 8 day trips is to do perth then japan and or singapore out of sydney. example sydney-perth overnight singapore overnight perth overnight sydney. the additional cost ,one overnight in per for this patten. savings is in productivity and no requirements for perth crew for that type of trip. again not that i would like that but its looking like it! cheers gigs

[blondeontour]

QF changed the rules on the progression agreement with the faaa.The new IR laws make all new employees ( any workplace) work under AWA's...there might be one more progression in Jan/Feb..

[QFRegional]

blondeontour

Were you at the meeting?

Did you hear the FAAA Categorically say there will NEVER be any more opportunities to progress once the new IR laws come into effect?

Also if you currently work under an EBA your cannot be forced onto an AWA that forms part of the new laws. Therefore how can we be forced onto an AWA if we havent negotiated our EBA within 12 months?

[OZcabincrew]

i can understand what you mean, all i can say is hopefully we don't get shafted and left with excess crew and no work. Especially with all of these casuals that seem to come online. As it is the bidding system doesn't work (like we already know) somehow casuals are having duties pre-allocated to their line weeks in advance and these are duties that full timers are bidding for but can't seem to get? go figure.

Oz

[QFRegional]

Ozcabincrew

ENOUGH with your bl**dy complaining. You were a casual were you not? Obviously you are now permanent and you still whinge and complain like a 5 year old.

[GalleyHag]

gigs

Do you therefore mean there would be no requirement for a Perth base?

[gigs]

most crew seem to have a problem with the dumping and picking up of duties. my guess is if it doesnt work well then, with longer trips more leave and yes more casuals. i do however think that the company are targeting l/haul first as in per then ,s/haul second. 85 hrs a month couldnt work forever???????? cheers gigs

no galleyhag but,the potential could exist. by that if 9 or 8 day trips were allowed every time we fly to per we could do a per duty. i really dont think the entire work force would go for this type of thing though. all my contribution is is what the compay could do and ,what did i here from oz that yep thats what they were trying for(9 day trips). the other thing i was trying to say in my twisted garbel which oz didnt get was the way voting for this type of thing could work for it to happen. cheers gigs

[GalleyHag]

Thanks gigs, I understand what you are saying.

Like it or not 8-9 day trips and 130-140 duty hours are on the cards. I believe whatever is offered to us through this EBA will be voted up like it or not.

[gigs]

exactly and the end result is we all have to work harder......................what i was trying to say about voting was almost 40% of s/haul dont vote on the eba for s/haul. juniors always say how lucky we are to have jobs i feel many will vote up out of fear. seniors may want the every now and then o/s duty so,whos left to vote? anyway just my opinion. cheers gigs

[labia vortex]

Since the last Shorthaul EBA(read betrayal)
I am enjoying more time at home and shorter trips.
Shorthaul crew are getting their reward ....longer trips and less time at home.
The next Shorthaul EBA will interesting.
See what else you can do for me while screwing yourselves in the process.
Thank you in anticipation.

[gigs]

yow labia vortex,as an experienced long haul dude maybe you could tell us what we should do to help not us but you. oh i should tell you i cant vote because im a casual employee happy to be flying after loosing my job with 'chance it'. my eba comes from monee ponds after short hauls is done voting it is voted on by us on a like it or not style vote! most of us shall of course like it if we wish to be invited by qantas to still fly. so the forgoing being the case should we all just curl up and die? please tell us what we can do? cheers gigs

[mouse78]

okay I set up this thread for non EBA news!! Come on guys! I want to write a book about the experiences of solo/duel crew ops, so get me some stories! Lets keep this an EBA free zone!

:8 When you see a stranger in the SYD crew room MQL is coming to get you!!

PS I will have a quick winge!! Christmas day should not be about seniority, it should be work one, next one off! Here it could be me and another girl every xmas for the rest of our days!! In every other shift work areas they do the one on one off thing, why not the FA's! What do you guys think!

[labia vortex]

The reason, and the only reason, we have ALL been done over is because shorthaul acted unilaterally.
No discussion with anybody else,no conference,no round table.
You(Watkins and Playford)made a kneejerk decision.
This resulted in both divisions being burnt.
Longhaul did nothing to burn you guys.You shot yourself in the foot and shot us in the head.
You were instrumental in the divisional flying agreement being thrown out.
The icing on the cake...agreeing to reduce BANS payment to anyone who transferred from longhaul.Absolute treachery.
Why in Gods name would you agree to something like that?
Absolutely vindictive.
AO was set up for the sole purpose of terrifying you guys and it did exactly that.
QF management knew you were the weakest link.You guys proved them correct.
It is now too late.
Your union has made your bed and now you have to lie in it.
There is now no such thing as shorthaul but rather "regional"
Shorthaul committed suicide and wounded longhaul in the process....Thank you.
Fortunately the wound has not yet proved fatal.
I will not be sending flowers to the shorthaul funeral.
Maybe the viagra driven dwarf will.
A little more strength and conversation would have prevented all of this.
The response will be so predictable I could write it myself.
That is also part of the problem..your assinine predictability

[speedbirdhouse]

Sadly you've hit the nail on the head LV...............

How could one NOT conclude that the shorthaul FAAA have been bought off by QF management???

[gigs]

ask a question and you may get the correct answer. thats what i was getting at.why blame me anyways try to enjoy it still cheers gigs.

[OZcabincrew]

QFRegional,

i'm not whinging, yet expressing my disappointment in the system like you always seem to do. How would you like it if someone junior came into your base and due to a glitch in the system all of a sudden became senior to you and got the trips you were bidding for without even bidding? Unfortunately this isn't just the opinion of me, but majority of short haulers in Perth. I am very junior and i expect that, i don't expect to get anything i bid for and purely do it just to see what happens, but i am happy to get what i get.

Yes i am permanent and love it and never take it for granted, i very rarely whinge at all, infact i never do, i only vent on this site, but when i'm being ripped off due to a problem with a system that doesn't do what it's supposed to do, then i want it fixed. There's nothing wrong with that.

QFRegional, get off your high horse, you're not the only one who's allowed to voice your opinion.

Oz

[ditzyboy]

speedbird -

"How could one NOT conclude that the shorthaul FAAA have been bought off by QF management???"

I don't think any domestic/regional member would disagree. :hmm:

[p m than sword]

Spot on, Lab Vortex,
Hit the nail right on the head.
Isnt gluttony one of the seven sins, or something like that. Shorthaul are having a feast of the int flying, and they are still whinging. You undercut us, now you have it all, and still not good enough.
PS. I wonder if the Hobbit has some room at his house in Syd, for me and the family when I have to move out of Perth.
Shame. Bloody senseless shame.

[sydney s/h]

S/H didnt vote for the last EBA to upset longhaulers. We didn't vote for the bands just to upset the L/H people coming over. (hey i didnt vote yes for the last one - and most of Syd base didnt either).


As far as a S/H funeral - i dont think thats the case. Unfortunatley i think its going to be the L/H division thats going to be dead and buried way before S/H. They call us on days off all the time - flying is increasing. From what i hear, they are forcing L/H onto leave etc.

And S/H are enjoying the regionals. Atleast the people i know who do them are. I personally dont do them. I joined S/H to be home more than L/H or i'd be there.

Anyway, if the next EBA is about 9day trips etcmy vote will be yet another NO!

cheers.

[speedbirdhouse]

sydneysh,

a one off $1000 dollar bonus should be enough to get your lot to vote for just about anything.

No.....?

[OZcabincrew]

Hey! Long haul can have the "regional" flying back if they want anytime! i am too junior to be picky about what turns up on my line, but if it means both divisions being happy, people being able to live where they want and still have the job they want in the base they want, then give the international flying back! I would make more money doing short haul flying (due to no advancement of my DTA as an allowance and also being able to work more hours and not 23hours for a 6 day tirp).

Majority if not all of my flying for the past 6 months has been international sectors, some months i'd be lucky to get one domestic sector, that is even rare.

Short haul because i want to be short haul.

Oz

[sydney s/h]

Speedbird,

I can't speak for "my lot"...only for myself.

No, $1000 is not enough for me to vote for anything. I am a CSM and dont need a $1000 bonus to help my pay. Take off the tax and its worth about $700 odd dollars.

You can take the regional flying and the crappy hours of the day...make that night...and knock your socks off. Not interested! Give me ayres rock returns anyday!

[m00ving_on]

how clever of TightSlot to merge all EBA issues into the one thread. reading it I feel as if I'm on acid.:eek:

[labia vortex]

Voice your concerns to your union.
Shorthaul IS dead.It is now "regional" and perhaps soon to be the "new" longhaul.
Personally doing 20 hour duties on an A380 or 777 LR is not my cup of tea.Shorthaul(sorry..regional) can have them.
Besides you are "cheaper"
Cheap being the operative word.
A mix of your flying and ours suits me.
Did a PER return from Sydney.
What a cake walk.
Only have to do 2 a week to build a roster.
Thank you again shorthaul.
Oh BTW you should also worry about Jet*.
They are definitely coming to get you.
Goodbye shorthaul,hello 9 day(crapp) regionals.
NB. as a 22.year CSS I manage to obtain about 45% of what I require on my roster.Not much chop really considering I have been in the position for 17 years

[Qwannas]

This thread is so messy due to the fact that all Australian airlines IR issues have been rolled into one.

Tightslot, please divide it up a little bit.

QF, alone, is made up of LH, SH, QFLink (Eastern and Sunstate), Jetstar, Australian Airlines (plus the contractors London, New Zealand and National Jet). All companies have their own EBA negociation process and their own IR issues.

IR issues are a very emotional subject at the moment, but largely a very interesting subject. Reading this Topic is so confusing and cant possibly flow with all of these companies rolled into one.

Perhaps you could give the Australian airlines a forum of its own?

What do you think Tight Slot?

[OZcabincrew]

labia vortex,

there will be no 9 days trips if it doesn't get voted up! so it has to be NO!


but hey, things are a changin!

Oz

[crew-use-only]

post deleted in the interest of not playing into managements hands...........

[TightSlot]

OK - I take the point about too many issues on one thread. I've started two more new threads, and this means that you now have a choice of three to post on (I hope that this helps!)

1. QANTAS discussions (All Bases) - Merged (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=194790)

2. AUSTRALIAN AIRLINES discussions (All Bases) (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=195676)

3. JETSTAR discussions (All Bases) (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=195677)

It is worth pointing out that the primary reason for merging the threads originally was because of the volatility of certain contributors: Putting all of the abuse and bile in one bucket made it easier to moderate and prevented other "innocent" users from having to wade through all the unpleasantries that were slowly destroying this forum. Now that the behaviour has improved, we'll see if we can relax a bit. If the abuse and bad behaviour start once more, then expect the mods to start chasing you again!!!!!
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/TightSlot/a_SlyTweet.gif

[trollies_r_go]

TS, what about the other 3 big players downunder? Virgin Blue, National Jet and Jetconnect? Come on, I know your in the UK but.....

[OZcabincrew]

crew-use-only,

read your pm's

[TightSlot]

trollies_r_go if you need to discuss something about these airlines the start a thread. It is not only the three airlines mentioned that do not have specific threads, but also the likes of American Airlines, Air France, KLM etc.
The QF threads have been centralised because of the inability of many of the contributors to adhere to PPRuNe rules. By & large, other airlines don't suffer from this problem, therefore the constraints don't apply. Once we've navigated through a period of time where QF staff have shown that they can argue the toss without resorting to abuse, then the QF constraints will be withdrawn too.