Unions that sabotage war preparedness

[Centaurus]

Not quite sure what forum this subject should be allocated to, but I read in the media that civilian staff who service the RAAF Hornets at Williamtown have been on strike for over four months and have picket lines organised.

Now I haven't a clue what their beef is (probably they want more money - but then again, who doesn't?) - but I just wondered if the effect of the strike is to down grade the Hornet fighter squadrons ability to react quickly if hostilities were to break out where the fighters were needed.

Surely the RAAF should be able to service it's own squadrons with RAAF members rather than rely on union labour from outside which is often subject to political forces?

[Pseudonymn]

Go here, about half way down the editorial: SMH opinion editorial by Mike Carlton. (http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/kleptocracy-rules-us-all/2005/10/14/1128796703807.html)

[Sunfish]

For those of you that can't be bothered, here is the text:

"FOR a glimpse of John Howard's rosy future of industrial sweet reason, let us look at the strike by Boeing aircraft maintenance workers at the air force base at Williamtown, near Newcastle.

On June 1, 35 of them downed tools because they were unhappy with individual work contracts the Boeing company wanted them to sign.

The nuts and bolts of the dispute are complex but, in short, they suspected they were being dudded on pay, penalty rates, skill allowances and the like.

With some reluctance, they asked the Australian Workers' Union to go through the figures; reluctance because, before they worked for Boeing, many of them had been in the Defence Force, the sort of loyal service personnel who felt, instinctively, that trade unions were a bit bolshie.

Not any more. The union discovered they were being paid up to $20,000 a year less than technicians doing a comparable job for a competing company, British Aerospace, working across the other side of the Williamtown tarmac. So the Boeing people joined the union and, as is their right, asked it to represent them in collective bargaining with the boss. That is as far as they got. The company refused to talk."

[HI'er]

You missed a very pertinent part of that article sunfish

"Adam Burgoyne, 39, is a skilled maintenance worker on FA-18 Hornet fighters. A former navy able seaman, he has a wife and a daughter of nine and a son of 13. Far from being some stroppy union bomb-thrower, he is a modest, decent man standing up for what, until now, has been the inalienable Australian right to a fair go.

"I'm just on the tools, and proud of it," he told me. "I love my job, love working on the Hornets. But I haven't got the skills to negotiate with the bosses, with their contracts and their lawyers and that. That's why I need the union."
But of course the pilots' Dispute of 16 years ago is irrelevant to today - isn't it?!

[topdrop]

If they're so vital to our military preparedness, why did the RAAF, outsource the work. Boeing Australia is headed by the workers next best friend to Howard and Andrews - Andrew Peacock. Don't know that he's actually done an honest days work in his life.
Welcome to the wonderful IR world of our cuckoo government.

[Milt]

It's about time for a "Royal Commission" on the effects of 'outsourcing' on the rapidly decreasing capabilities of the Oz Defence Forces to perform their missions.

Timor, Afghanistan and Iraqi committments have shown up serious problems with outsourced support and we continue on a downward capability slope.

Having been at the sharp end of several serious conflicts and appreciated the value of self contained in-house support I would not care to do it again.

[Point0Five]

It's about time for a "Royal Commission" on the effects of 'outsourcing' on the rapidly decreasing capabilities of the Oz Defence Forces to perform their missions.

Timor, Afghanistan and Iraqi committments have shown up serious problems with outsourced support and we continue on a downward capability slope.
I'd be curious to know what benchmarks you're using to assess the ADF's rapidly decreasing capabilities by.

Also, care to offer some examples of these serious problems?

[OZBUSDRIVER]

Bob Hawke started it:mad: Split the military into front line and support. RAAF frontline- ADGs, F111, Hornets and P3s. If you didn't lob something that exploded you were in support of those that did and open to outsourcing. RAAF Willi has been doing this since 1985 or there abouts. From servicing to catering..outsourced. Bob's bit of paper told him that Australia never needed to deploy beyond our shores. My how the world has changed! The rot has been festering for far longer than this flavour of government.

[Elastigirls_Lover]

Get used to this sort of thing happening. Military service is quite simply a cheaper alternative to civilian labour markets. Be it pride or pay, industry doesn't care about why you turn up to do a job, just that you actually turn up when they want you to. That the workers in question happen to support industry specific weapons of mass destruction (which at the end of the day have the sole purpose to defend the mining interests of 'western' nations - I emphasise this point - they serve absolutely no other purpose whatsoever), they should quite rightly be as eligible to bargain their pay packet as the rest of us. If the investment made by a government into the purchase of weapons secures that nations' rights to mining/corporate privileges and profits downstream, then the workers who contribute to such industry deserve a slice of the pie.

[Centaurus]

A quick pick thought - The AFAP representing RAAF pilots. Breaking news - RAAF pilots on go slow campaign - firing only one rocket at a time instead of a salvo....

[ftrplt]

aahh, rockets; now they would be useful. Must be why a realistic combat capability doesnt exist.

[Captain Sand Dune]

Realism depends on the perception of the beholder - and that's half our problem.

- RAAF pilots on go slow campaign - What, so now we're working faster? :} :}

[410]

If you want an example of how imbecilic it's become, the Army's logistic train (read: truckies) have been replaced by civilian drivers. ((Another Hawke/Beazley 'initative'.)

Quite a few people who wear 'the green' asked the question (and were ignored) when this money saving decision was made: who's going to drive the trucks carrying all the necessary supplies into the FEBA should we ever get involved in a stoush in Northern Australia and the civilian drivers (maybe quite rightly) decide it's a bit too dangerous for them?

Or want more (danger) money.

[Ultralights]

British Aerospace-------------- Maintaining and modding Hornets and Hawk, all employed under individual contracts, negotiated as a group (all identical, AWA's) new IR rules.

Boeing---------------- Maintaining Hornets and Hawk, all employed under EBA...............Current IR rules.
were being paid up to $20,000 a year less than technicians doing a comparable job for a competing company, British Aerospace,

[Point0Five]

who's going to drive the trucks carrying all the necessary supplies into the FEBA should we ever get involved in a stoush in Northern Australia
Yeah, let's re-cycle some old doctrine! If it is that bad, we're f*#ked anyway. Why do we need people wearing uniforms to drive trucks?

Is it possible, as per Ultralights comment, that maybe BAe are just a better company for employees? Here's a crazy idea, why not go and work for them.

[DutchRoll]

I'd be curious to know what benchmarks you're using to assess the ADF's rapidly decreasing capabilities by.

I'd love to elaborate on his behalf, Point0Five, if I didn't have any concern about getting a knock on my door by a couple of burly defence investigators!

Over about the last 6 years of my (much longer) service, plus a while in the reserve forces, I personally experienced the most incredible reduction in serviceability/availability among the type of RAAF aircraft (yep, they're currently involved in Iraq) I flew. I will not tell you the figures, but on many days the 'numbers' were truly astounding. Of all the money the current Government boasted it would re-direct into the 'sharp end' (ie, flying operations) of the RAAF by years of outsourcing, civilianising, etc, I'm positive I saw not one red cent while engaged in flying operations. I have absolutely no idea where it all goes.

I was never aware of any effort in my last years of service other than attempts to skimp & save money wherever possible. I had friends in Canberra who told me how certain very important allocations of money were 'raided' to fund tasking ordered by the Government. I'd love to say more, including my knowledge of the current situation (which is not re-assuring), but I'm afraid there is little point.

[Point0Five]

Fair call, DutchRoll. I have no interest in discussing the inner workings of our defence, but I yet again pose the question. Could we have done better previously with the operations we have to support now, given the now prevalent involvement of industry?

The insinuation that the ADF is a lesser being at present does a dis-service to those who are now achieving far greater feats than has been done for quite some time.

The days of milk runs and jollies are over. And for the better, as far as I'm concerned. Truck on. God knows, we're good at it. :cool: