Advice from the experts Sought......

[Hofmeister]

I am considering investing a modest sum in learning to fly helicopters. My current employers would require me to sign on for another 4 years to give me the training and as we are all aware, staying around for that long there may be no-one left!!!

I am after some sound advice on what aircraft to do my training on (R22, Schweizer 300, Enstrom, or Bell 47) and whether to do the training in the UK or USA. I have done quite a lot of investigation at schools both in the UK and US. I am aware, for example, of the limitations in the US on the number of hours instruction required before soloing on the R22 etc etc. Can one do a JAA/CAA PPL (H) in the US? Do UK schools still offer NVQ discount on training? Are there any UK schools that train on the Bell 47 - an excellent training aircraft I am told?

I am currently completing my ATPL (A) exams et al. and am a serving fast jet pilot - I am therefore of very modest means http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif - so your help is sought.

[Pinger]

Hey, a fast jet man wanting to learn to fly! Good on yer, Hofmeister. (Your lot taught this fishead to fly once, so no offence!)

My suggestion is if youre going to fly in UK then learn in UK. By the time youve paid flights anf accomodation in US the bottom line is much the same. Civil flying is a lot different to mil, so best to learn it all from the start.

Sadly I fear you will be lucky to find anyone training on the clockwork mouse, youre right, its a superb training machine but there are few left now. http://www.pprune.org/ubb/NonCGI/frown.gif

Enstrom is a real helo, much maligned by those that dont know it and an excellent trainer. It is extremely well built (though an engineering nightmare, but you dont have to maintain it)very strong, forgiving and old enough design to still exhibit the characteristics of a real helicopter. Good choice. Try Southernair at Shoreham.

Hughes 300, another good trainer Im told - Ive never flown one. Good choice too Id say. An outfit at Northampton/Sywell use these.

Robbo. Well, Im a bit biased here. Theyre the cheapest, and I think you therefore get what you pay for. Ive never been in one and I never will. Nasty little toys.

Youll never enjoy flying so much if you do this, Hoffmeister, its the best.

Go for it! :)

[flipflop]

If you are of modest means then check your budget carefully and get some prices for flying training. The only school I know of that flys and teaches the B47 is Alan Mann at fairoaks. I agree that if you want to fly/work in the UK then learn here. The US is cheaper but you get what you pay for!
Learning rotary will probably set you back about 3-5k per 5 hours including groundschool so choose carefully and good luck!!
PS. I have the B47 on my ATPL and love it!!

[Skycop]

Hof, if you are thinking of heli driving for a living - forget it! Believe me, you will be worse off financially than you are now. My advice has to be - use your experience to go plank wing in civvy street - without a doubt. I had the privilege of being taught both by Auntie Betty and I am scraping a living at the moment as a Rotary pilot. The civvy rotary market is not in good shape. I am seriously thinking of giving up and going plank, having left 6 years ago with an ATPL(H) and a CPL(A). As a FW licence holder I am thinking now is the time to use it as I am faced with my next RW contract on reduced terms. I am between ten and twelve grand a year worse off than if I had taken up the offer of Spec Aircrew..go steady.

[Robbo Jock]

I've just spent over £20000 getting a CPL(H) and have recently been told by the Chief Pilot of a large Helicopter company located not a million miles from Aberdeen to "go fixed-wing if you've got the chance or the money" quote. I would agree fully with Skycop, become a Planker.

No regrets (apart from the dosh, of course !) I had ten months of pretending I was a real pilot and the buzz of overcoming the challenge and getting the licence. But, the 'no experience = no job / no job = no experience' gulf is vast and expesive one to bridge in the civil whirly bird world.

By the way R22's are great fun to fly, but make you very twitchy on the Up-Down stick when the engine sounds rough (which, I suppose, is no bad thing.) Bell 47's are somewhat more of a gentleman's carriage in Auto, but you sweat like b***ery in the sun.

[fap]

The Bell47 is a great training ship.

[This message has been edited by fap (edited 03 February 2000).]

[Dauphin]

If you`re thinking of going to the US, you should really consider Helicopter Adventures Inc in California. They are approved as an JAA school and they have british instructors in the JAA program. They also have both the 300CB and the R-22. Great School!!
Got my CPL-H there in dec.-98.

Visit the school at www.heli.com (http://www.heli.com)

[King Air]

Hey huys:
I was also graduated from Helicopter Adventures Inc. In there, the 300CB are always not available, They would try to convince you to use the R22 instead of 300CB since nobody want to take the R22 for the training equipment.
The instructors in there are terrible,they would try their best to waste as many hours as they can in order to build up their flying hours. Certainly I am talking about the FAA side.The CAA side is great.The president in HAI would guarantee everything, you will be realized that they are the kings of the lie.
My suggestion is go to somewhere else, if you don't want to waste money.

[sparecrew]

Hofmeister,

If you want good rotary training then stay with Auntie Betty as the Shawbury course will give you Squirrel and 412 for your licences. That little lot would cost a fortune in civvystrasse and you will get basic SAR training/USL/procedural IF etc.etc thrown in. If they make you sign on for 4 years then go for SAR as this is a marketable qualification with Bristows on the Coastguard S61. There are still rumours that all military SAR will be civilianised in the future so jobs will be there. However, if you want dosh then do as someone else suggested and use your fixed wing time to go airlines - Flying Colours and Air 2 bob are crab friendly outfits. If in doubt, look how many rotary guys from all 3 Services are doing ATPL A and looking for that "Cabin doors to manual" job. Best of luck mate...

[Pinger]

Theres no doubt fellas, rotary drivers(civ or mil) are well qualified for airlines right now - the combination of stick & rudder work with operational judgement and top class IFR skills /handling make you highly useful.

Chief Pilots do recognise this. USE IT!!!

[SARcastic]

Staying fixed wing would seem the sensible option at the moment, as the statistics for north sea heli-traffic is well down - and is likely to stay that way whilst the oil companies brace themselves for realistic prices from the two new main players in the industry. Add to this that pilots are spending lengthy periods on standby, which could mean the possibility of more redundancies unless things pick up - not this year I fear.

[flipflop]

I'll employ anyone who can drink as much Famous Grouse as me. Qualifications are secondary!!
Hic!

[Dances with pigs]

Hofmeister,

I'm currently a PLANKER (?? :eek :) in the left seat of a 320 but I cut my teeth in the chopper world. For what it's worth here's my take on it all.

The R22 is dangerous if you're taught badly (I've 1,000 hours teaching in it) But it is the cheapest and if you can fly an R22 you'll fly the lot. Enstroms are heavy and old but at least have the cyclic in the right place. :) !!!300's are disgusting I hate them. Go for the robbie.

As for the airlines it's not all it's cracked up to be. The life style really sucks unless you're in BA with 10 years service. I fly for a charter co and I will spend almost 11 months of the year out of country....it's an extreme example but it'll show you what can happen. On the other hand it can be truly amazing.

I fly in the airlines, I enjoy it but I miss Choppers and the variety even if the money wasn't great. Like the sky-dude said if you can get a real job and fly for fun that's the way to go.

Avoid helicopter Adventures. I went there in 90 as a bright eyed wee boy and got sweet talked, and promptly shafted. the Owner is a real snake. But certainly try and get a CAA affiliated school in the states and combine quality with price.

follow your head & best of luck.

[Hofmeister]

Thank you all for your replies - I'm sorry that I didn't acknowledge them earlier, but my computer "exploded" shortly after I posted the request. Safe flying to you all.

[Gem]

I am sure that I have heard of a Bell 47 being used around the Leeds area for flight training. The contact was PLH Associates, you will find them in the back of Flyer etc.

Don't forget the 47 burn's fuel like a Lightning on reheat, so it won't be cheap

[eurocopter]

The Bell 47 is operated by Bob Hields, Hields aviation at Sherburn in Elmet
01977-680206