Sentry Photo

[Dr Illitout]

Just saw this over on the Airliners.net phot site. I don't think that I have ever seen the E-3a photographed do well!!
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=938628&size=L&width=1024&height=695&sok=JURER%20%20%28qngrfgnzc%20%3E%20qngr_fho%28ABJ%28%29%2C% 20VAGREINY%2024%20UBHE%29%29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20ivrjf%20qrfp&photo_nr=7
No I'm not the photographer. Nor am I connected with airliners.net or am I going to get any money for this!!

Rgds Dr. I.

[Logistics Loader]

I have....!!!
But not an E3a this one...

Its a Brit version the E3D

[maxburner]

Sgt Rick Brewell took some fabulous shots of an E3 and an F3 in formation over Fylingdales, back in about 91. Nice as this one is, Rick's are more interesting.

[Tarnished]

Rick's are more interesting .......

'cause you're in one of them per chance????

[Logistics Loader]

i know of rick through a fellow photog...

cant fault his pics

1st class....

[Navy_Adversary]

Excellent image!
Whilst watching Discovery Wings (I think) the other night a programme was comparing the early days of Trans-Atlantic air travel and the Boeing 707 v Comet.
Now how would a Comet look rigged up for AWACS?
Nimrod ermm not quite the same.
Maybe someone can get busy on the photoshop:ok:

[Tarnished]

How would a Comet look rigged up for AWACS?

A lot like this:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/penric/nimrod4.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v463/penric/nimrod2.jpg

Didn't work though. Hence E3D from Mr Boeing.

Tarnished

[Logistics Loader]

Is it the Japanese Defence Force using 737 for AWACS???

http://www.adf-serials.com/gallery/albums/wedgetail/DC_3Axx_001.jpg

My apols to the Aussies

http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/737aewc/images/737AEWC_6.jpg

This was the pic i was thinking of

[West Coast]

"Is it the Japanese Defence Force using 737 for AWACS???"

More along the lines of a B767 than a guppy.

[Talking Radalt]

"I shall call him.....:E.......Mini-Sentry"

[brickhistory]

quote:

"I shall call him............Mini-Sentry"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Spewed my coffee when I first read this line, but then thought about the JASDF 767 AWACS. It actually is a huge bird compared to the E-3. The rotodome on the JASDF bird is the same size as the E-3 (30ft x 6 ft) and looks much smaller on the wide-body.

The 767 gets a lot better gas mileage and altitude ability compared to the E-3. Pity my USAF won't find the $$ to re-engine our E-3B/C's.

Brick

[Widger]

I know where that photograph came from. It was taken by the passenger in seat 3A of the B737 I was controlling the other week!


:uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: :uhoh: :ugh: :\ :\ :\ :\ :ooh:

[Kim Il Jong]

Sorry a geeky E3D question:

Can anyone tell me what the rearwards pitot probe type thingys are above the wings near the tips??

Clearly I don't expect an answer if they are a classified ew type thing.

Cheers

[Logistics Loader]

Fuel dump valves ????

[brickhistory]

question:
Can anyone tell me what the rearwards pitot probe type thingys are above the wings near the tips??
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HF aerials

[Runaway Gun]

Guns!

OK not long enough. Guns guns guns guns !!

[flipflopman RB199]

Come on LL,

I don't come on here speculating on Mover issues that I have no idea about, please don't proffer answers on engineering issues when you too clearly have no idea what you are talking about.
It doesn't make you seem popular or clever

[Logistics Loader]

RB199,

I did not say that i knew what they were !!!!
read the post ....i put ??? after fuel dump valves thereby stating a question....!!!

I've been around aircraft long enough not to try and infer i know everthing....hence why i queried it too as i geuinely did not know what they were....

One thing i have never been afraid of is to ask advice if im unsure, as in this case...!!

[flipflopman RB199]

So why bother posting exactly LL?:confused: ???

Can anyone tell me what the rearwards pitot probe type thingys are above the wings near the tips???

Obviously you couldn't, so why have a shot at an answer???

If you were genuinely unsure as to their purpose, why not wait until somebody replied as to their purpose???

I'll give you a clue though. In general, fuel dump valves are around 3" diameter and 5" long, have a two way ball valve which is electrically operated via a 24v actuator. They are similar in construction and operation to fuel shut off cocks, and are buried deep in the wings;)

Edited due....... to disjointed............english

[Logistics Loader]

Thot fuel dump valves a more plausible answer than guns....
that di make me chuckle :D

[Kim Il Jong]

Cheers RB199,

As yours is the only vaguely sensible answer i'll go with that. looking at E-3a pics it looks like they were originally at the wingtip (He guesses) but were moved on the e-3d to accomodate those ESM/ECM pod jobbers at the wingtip.

[brickhistory]

they are the HF aerials.

[Hammer Head Too]

KIJ

If you look back at the picture of the ill fated (and totally useless) AEW Nimrod you will see similar wing tip pods...in fact identical! It was decided/insisted that the same system was used post Nimrod so the tips of E3D are turned through 90 to allow the loral? pods to be mounted.:confused:

[RileyDove]

Nimrod AEW - The problems with the Nimrod AEW were more of the combination of the parts than the parts themselves. The positioning of the radar is the optimum method of mounting for
the most effective scanning. The aircraft radar did work it's just that the cooling of the systems in the narrow bodied aircraft couldn't be effected very well . Whilst many choose to knock it
I am sure that the radar for it's time in comparison with the Sentry was more advanced.Had we had ditched the Nimrod airframe and used something like a short bodied Airbus A300 we wouldn't be totally reliant on Boeing.

[Yeller_Gait]

Kim,

If you look closely at an E3D, or any other 707 aircraft for that matter, you may even spot another gun/dump valve/hf aerial thingy atop the tail.

Personally, I will go along with HF aerials.

Y_G

[Rakshasa]

And an even bigger one just above the cockpit!


They're what Brickhistory said, HF antenna.

[ORAC]

NimWACS radar? IIRC, it couldn´t point at the coast as the track overload crashed the system. Computers not up to the job and no room/weight to replace them. I believe the nimrods dutch roll also caused problems.

Then there was the Mayday the first time it went above FL260; there was an enormous cracking sound and they gingerly took it home to find the radome cracked around most of the circumference from the internal air pressure.

And, as you mention, the wonderful system of using the fuel as a heat dump. Had to wait until they reached the orbit to turn the radar on and turn it off when they left, otherwise the endurance became a joke.

A different airframe might have allowed changes and improvements to performance, but that´s all speculation....

Things behind cockpits? What about that great British invention, the Shackleton with just the one big spark plug screwed in the top? :}
http://www.airliners.net/photos/middle/8/4/3/833348.jpg

[Wyler]

Ref rear facing pitot tubes.

You are all wrong. They are, in fact, the waste pipe to drain off the water from the dishwasher. This is in constant use on a normal sortie and is situated in the galley, which takes up the back half of the airframe.

[alexmac]

Is that not what they take lady pax up for...to operate dishwasher and spend the rest of the time in the kitchen ;)

[ORAC]

But why are the washing machines and tumble driers so far outboard on the wings?........... :confused:

(Course, the old Shak only had rotary driers in it´s day.... :} )

[Kim Il Jong]

Ooeer, Real confused now, HF it is then. My own fault for momentary lapse into spotter mode. :8

For anyone interested, apparently there is a shackle-bomber or two merrily oxidising into the groung at Paphos airport. Anyone know the history?

[ORAC]

The Paphos Shacks (http://www.aeroplanemonthly.com/news/news_archive/Paphos_Shaks/shak_1.htm )

[PPRuNeUser0162]

There's a new terminal scheduled to be built on the site they're resting on starting in March. Not sure what's going to happen to them then... :ugh:

[FEWNCOP]

Don't know, but being on the most operational aircraft at the South Lincs Airbase, they must be something pretty important - know what I mean. Super Cool

[FJJP]

The wingtip rear-pointing gizmos are fuel dump pipes - it's where the fuel is dumped overboard.

[Foxthreekill]

FJJP....errr no the're not. They are HF aerials similar to our US TACAMO ac.

[brakechute]

The definitive answer from ex-E-3 aircrew... The aerials on the upper wing surface just inboard on the wingtips are HF areials, there are 3, one on each wingtip and one on top of the fin. The pods on the wingtips are ESM pods. Fuel is dumped via dump masts that arre extended from beneath the wing just aft and putboard of the main gear. Hope this clears up this area of confusion.

[Wyler]

OK smarty pants. So WHERE DOES the dishwasher water go then????

[sonicstomp]

Wyler -

The dishwasher water is used to cool the radar - its called LCS (Liquid Cooling System)

:D

[buoy15]

What frequency does HF use with a Dipole aerial only 18" long?
I need to know, otherwise my last 35 years of Electronic Theory and application has been wasted - ie - VLF about 2 miles - SUHF - about 3 inches

Nice shot though Dr Ill

Reminds me of a memorable scene from "The Dirty Dozen" when a condemmed man, acting as a General, reviews a Guard of Honour and turns to the Base Commander and says -

"Might pretty Colonel, but can they fight?"

[BEagle]

Physical and electrical length are not the same thing, of course. For best efficiency something close to a resonant half-wave dipole would be the antenna of choice (although I understand that 'end effects' - whatever they might be - mean that the length would be slightly different). For example, when 27 MHz CB was first introduced into the UK nearly 24 years ago, the 9 ft quarter wave whip aerials used by good 'ole boys - yee hah - in the US were outlawed and base-loaded whips of about 1.5m were all that were permitted in the UK. Interestingly (?), the height restriction was nothing to do with radio but stemmed from the mods and rockers era of the mid-60s when huge tiger-tail topped plastic whip aerials on the backs of the mods' weedy little Lambrettas were deemed a hazard to the public and were restricted to 60". Or so I was once told.

But are the E-3D wingtip antennae of fixed physical length? Or do they exend and retract to match the required wavelength?

[Wyler]

Well done for managing to fit the word 'intersetingly' into your text.
:sad:

Or even \'Interestingly\'.

[mike_346]

But are the E-3D wingtip antennae of fixed physical length? Or do they exend and retract to match the required wavelength?

They are a fixed length.

The dishwasher water is used to cool the radar - its called LCS (Liquid Cooling System)

Hmmm I wonder how effcient that actually would be?! :rolleyes: