English pilots at Air France

[BMI701EGCC]

What is the current situation on English Pilots at AF?The reason why i ask is that my mum and dad are moving to Bergerac in the summer, me wanting to be a future commercial airline pilot is wondering if its possible i could get on at AF?im not that well up on the fench language but im always learning :)

is their any english pilots on the A330 or 747?


thanks PPRUNE,

Scott Waterworth

[Doug the Head]

Well, I suppose it never hurts to ask... :rolleyes:

[Diabolo]

Hello,

Maybe you will be the first.

Presently, No Brits at A330/B747 and the rest of the fleet.

Good luck.

[Piltdown Man]

Fluent French, excellent secondary education and a good scientific degree: Then you night stand a chance! They are a little "picky".

[flyblue]

Doug ,
I have flown with an Irish Captain and at least a British FO in AF. I also know of a few Belgians and an Italian flying as pilots.
A DGAC rule says you must be fluent in French (for safety reasons) to fly as crew on a French registered aircraft, so this is the real obstacle, not the fact of not being French. Plus, the entry tests are set to be difficult even for French mother tongue (but there are schools with training courses for AF entry tests ;) ).
This is what you get on the AF site about the requirements:


CONDITIONS DE RECEVABILITE DES CANDIDATURES 2005

Conditions générales

- Ne pas avoir été éliminé 2 fois à une sélection PNT à Air France quelle que soit la filière.
- Ne pas avoir été éliminé au cours d'une formation PNT à Air France.
- Respecter un délai de 3 ans et avoir effectué 1000 heures de vol pour présenter une nouvelle candidature après la date d'élimination à une première sélection PNT.
- Etre de nationalité d'un pays membre de l’Espace Economique Européen ou de nationalité Suisse et s'exprimer couramment dans la langue française.
- Etre titulaire du brevet théorique de pilote de ligne délivré par la DGAC ou par un pays membre des JAR/FCL. Pour les PL théoriques obtenus avant le 01/01/97 être titulaire du certificat "Facteurs Humains" ou avoir suivi un stage de rattrapage FH au sein d'une compagnie.

Conditions particulières

- Etre titulaire de la licence française de pilote professionnel avion avec la qualification IFR multimoteurs en cours de validité ou d’une licence CPL/IR « multi engine » validée JAR/FCL (licence CPL/IR française en attendant l’agrément JAR/FCL des licences européennes obtenues hors de France) et présenter une expérience significative en heures de vol pilote avion par rapport à l’âge.

Also have a look at the "recrutement cadet" section on AF "Become an AF Pilot" website (I don't know your age but maybe you are young enough) http://devenirpiloteairfrance.com/

Good luck :ok:

[BMI701EGCC]

i understand the biggest obstical is being fluent in the frech language, im studying my A-levels at the moment, in Math, Geography and IT, im hoping to go to an English speaking college in Pau next year, have to see if i can change course content first. it all depends on what my mother and farther decides on though.

i know being an English pilot at AF is a long shot, but i thought i would just ask, would it be possible to get my PPL over in France, my farther is in the property business around the Bordeux area, he has this crazy idead about him creating a small runway on one on his plots and starting up a small commuter airline, i wish!

on that note does anyone know if Bordeux - Tolouse would work with a baron or a beech? :) (crazy i know)

thanks guys, your info is much appriciated


scott waterworth

[Farrell]

Hey Scott

You can of course get your PPL in France - but it is expensive.

And don't be too quick to knock your father's dream of building a commuter airline......stranger things have happened.

The French language is beautiful, and someday, I pray that with enough effort I will speak it well and not like 'une vache espagnol'

There is no better language training than the total immersion method, which you will experience if you move here.

Best country in the world.......except for banks or anything requiring a trip to your local 'prefecture' :E

[36050100]

Air France own KLM, KLM own KLM Cityhopper uk, the former Air UK. There are 150 pilots at KLC uk; I guess we're working for Air France............................sort of !

[jam123]

No chance mate - especially when we beat them for the 2012 olympics!:O :O :O

[saman]

Scott,

I wish you luck with AFR but looking a your posts, a wee bitty work on the English language might not go too far amiss.

[LightTwin Driver]

To fly for AF,you must be fluent in French and then speak said language at every opportunity,totally ignoring the fact that the rest of the world has adopted English as the internationally agreed ATC language



"OO eez calling ?"

[The Real Slim Shady]

Scott,

An English chap, ex bmi, initials ABC, mother British, Father French, works for AF.

He was educated in France and was fluent in both languages.

As Flyblue said, that is the rub.

[flaps to 60]

As well as alll the usual nationalistic preventions to letting in "Le Johnny Foreigner" into AF........Dont you have to have done your supposedly "Work European wide" JAR FCL's in France.

I knew several French born and bred chaps who did their ATPL's in the UK and were to "allez vous petite merde" (as you can see i'll never get a job in AF due to my challenged French linguistics) because they weren't done in France!!!!!

Any non French national working in AF must have something on Spinneta!

Bon Chance mon amie or something like that.

[tournesol]

Hi Scot,
I had to learn English to become a pilot. Trust me that was not easy. In your case you have to learn French and improve your English.
Good luck young chap.

[Complex_Type]

Living in France does not mean that AF is your only career option.

[PPRuNeUser0215]

Agree with the last comment... Work in the UK, commute from France and enjoy cheap(er) houses. Way to go !

[Rogi]

interesting topic

@ FlyBlue,
any info on those schools that do AF selection training ??


Thanks

[skydriller]

You can of course get your PPL in France - but it is expensive.

Hi,

I would just like to add that in my experience, doing a PPL in France will be a lot LESS expensive than doing one in the UK.

Alot of French Aeroclubs are REAL clubs, by which I mean that they are not out to make a profit, they exist for the benifit of their members only. As a result I 'hire' our Robin at around 85-110 Euros an hour depending upon if I fly with an instructor and which aeroplane I take. In the UK I was paying that in Sterling - and more!!

Regards, SD..

[flyblue]

Rogi,
the following are the schools doing the selection training (that I know of).

-Institut Aéronautique de Paris IAP (http://www.iap-groupe.com/) : 5 rue Joseph Sansboeuf
+331 40 08 08 37

-Institut de Langage International Aéronautique ILIA (http://www.ilia.fr/stageformation/stageformation.php?formation_id=3) : 92-98 Boulevard Victor Hugo, Clichy
+33 1 42 70 70 25

also have a look here (http://www.rform.org/)

Many people also find
this (http://www.aeronet-fr.org/phpBB/index.php3?viewcat=20) site useful, and there are lots of websites that give tips on how to prepare the selection tests like this one for the Cadets (http://fanfreluche.free.fr/ctaf.htm) or this one (http://www.flyingmike32.freesurf.fr/)

[Doudou]

The last one is the best, my advice (only MY opinion), don't spend soi much money with ILIA or IAP, Flying mike's software is almost enough, I went all the way till the interviews (missed it :suspect: )with it.
I have to admit ILIA or IAP can bring you self confidence, which can be important.

[Rogi]

Merci bien.

Actually I have a fATPL with around 1200 hrs on the A320. I am thinking of applying somewhere next summer as I`m doing my CCQ A330 for now. I studied at uni et je suis un petit belge.


Which of these `schools` do you recommend in my case ?
any idea where I can learn more specific `aviation French` ? good books/tapes/... ? (Im based in LGW) I haven`t spoken French for a while now.

I know it is really hard to get into AF as being non-French, but I want to give it a shot at least.
My dream is to retire somewhere in the South of France you see....



hastalavista baby,
Rogi

[Farrell]

Skydriller is indeed correct about it being cheaper in France than in the UK to get the PPL.

Sorry, I was talking about doing it in the US.

French aeroclubs are lovely places......I particularly like Aeroclub de Grand Lyon

[juliettepapa]

Hey Rogi.

I am glad to see i am not the only"Petit Belge" among the french community. The problem with us Belgian we obviously cannot speak any language properly but we speak few of them so we can fit almost everywhere.


A bientot.

[recceguy]

quote " im hoping to go to an English speaking college in Pau next year "

That is not precisely the wise option if you want to start a career in a competitve business in France (or in any country) Best thing to do : go to a french high school or college, then to a local University or "classes preparatoires" so you somewhat become "french" - and then it's up to you. Thousands of british nationals have been doing that before...
Just be advised the level of mathematics in french schools is a little bit higher than in the english-speaking world (I'm talking by experience, having commuted between both worlds for many years)
France can be compared to Russia, with a strong emphasis on "pure"mathematics, when in the anglo-saxon world it's more practical, down-to-earth and business-orientated (statistics and so on)
For that reason, the french theoretical ATPL is more "technical" -read difficult - than the british one (not even mentioning the irish or the american...)

[glider26]

Hi,

Got a question for anyone who flies professionally in France having obtained their ATPL in a JAR member state other than France.

I'm Airbus 320 rated with 3000 hrs and a UK JAR ATPL. I speak fluent French due to having been brought up here and there and having a French mother.

Could I apply to a French airline (say Air France for example!) with my UK JAR ATPL? I suppose not. How easy is it to convert? Is it just admin and a bit of cash? What about the type rating? Thanks for any info.

Glider26

[Diabolo]

You will get a letter from the Compagnie ( AF dont know for sure about the other ) asking you get in touch about your License with the French DGAC.
Good luck !

et bons vents

[Squawk7777]

It should be fairly easy to transfer your UK CAA JAR to the French DGAC JAR. If I am not mistaken the requirements set forth by the CAA to transfer a non-UK JAR license to the UK JAR should be the same for the French. Check the caa site LASORS (http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=175&pagetype=68&groupid=780) section.

7 7 7 7

[Danny_manchester]

Hi Scott, being a mancunian taking A levels myself, i can relate to your situation in a way :D. I am doing Maths, Chemistry, Biology and Psychology. I am what i would class as GCSE fluent in french :). I intend to work for a large commercial airline myself in the near future, and i definatly think that you should ignore the negative comments from people on here. Nothing is impossible, if you become fluent in french, and hold the minimum enterance criteria, you have a good chance!

As for the negative posters, i can guess that they:-

A) Don't hold any form of pilots license
B) Think they are the "oracle", but really know nothing.
C) are working for a really bad airline/charter company, and wish they had better jobs. like working for AF :D
D) They are intending on applying to AF, and don't want the competition :D.

Go for it, Don't let anybody put you off :).

Danny

[captplaystation]

Danny,if you had some contact with some of the pompous elitist guys that work for AF (don't believe me? ask a non AF french pilot), you would perhaps begin to appreciate that you are being just un petit peu niave in that assessment, malheureusement.

[luc]

Captplaystation,
Etrange commentaire sur les pilotes AF. generalisation meme stupide,non...

[jmc1980]

C'est vrai faut pas généraliser. Cela étant dit certains pilotes AF n'essaient même pas de cacher le fait qu'ils sont, comment dire... un peu cons:rolleyes:

par exemple l'autre jour sur la fréquence de Brest controle, y'a un type d'AF qui engueulait un controleur sur son anglais. Genre "on dit pas ça comme ça il faut dire comme ça" etc. C'est la premiere fois que j'entends un pilote faire de telles réflexion, sur une fréquence qui était de surcroît déjà pas mal saturée. En plus le type avait tort.
:hmm:

autre exemple une nouvelle fois entendu sur Brest controle:
contrôleur: "AF machin chose descendez niveau 220"
pilote : "on peut s'avoir pourquoi?"
controleur: "cause traffic et vous passez avec Paris sur truc bidule"
pilote: "ouais mais ça nous fait descendre vachement bas et je vous fait remarquer que ça nous fait consommer plus de carburant pour votre information"
controleur: "AF machinchose descendez immédiatement niveau 220 et vous expédiez à travers le 260, passez avec paris, et pour votre gouverne vous deviez être au niveau tant déja car c'est une contrainte pour le secteur suivant"
Premiere fois également que j'entends un pilote critiquer sur la fréquence des instructions du contôle.

Je suis d'accord pour ne pas génraliser, mais les pilotes AF sont les SEULS à ce permettre ce genre de choses. Cela dit ils font moins les malins quand ils passent avec Londres;)

[Boingboingdriver]

Rogi,

Learn french during summer,and if you are really serious about getting a job at AF,join UNi and go for Maths SUP then next year Maths SPE.Then you have a chance to pass their selections.
Just 2 years:8 oh and good luck:E

[flyblue]

jmc1980
étant donné qu'il y a plus ou moins 4000 pilotes à AF, c'est plus que possible qu'il y ait aussi des cons, comme un peu partout dans la société.
Mais il faut que je reconnaisse que contrairement à ce qu'on croit, il y a à AF moins de "protagonistes" et d'egos surdeveloppés que dans toutes les compagnies privées où j'ai eu l'honneur de travailler. La plupart des PNT sont des bons joueurs d'équipe, agréables et professionnels (AF invéstit beaucoup au niveau Facteurs Humains).
Juger la catégorie par un ou deux cons qu'on a eu l'occasion de croiser ne rend pas justice à la grande majorité.

[Rogi]

thanks for the advice boingboingdriver,


I am taking French class in January, but I cant see why I should take mathematics.
I studied 4 years at uni, and I had quit a lot of maths before that already. Why would I need maths ? are their tests that difficult ??

What is the situation at AF these days actually ? have they been recruiting recently ?

[sam34]

Hi i am french!

So if you want any information about AF, I'll help you.

AF recruit 200 pilots all the year.
200 include : 60 cadets, it is like in UK, so you call this "cadet sponsoship".
and recruit 140 pilot with a JAA ATPL(CPL/IR ME) no MCC!

There are not maths! just psychotecnic test (logique,) but there is a french test you must read a text and answer at 30 questions in 30 minutes!

If you get an ATPL theory, you can apply.
If not, you must to do studies for exemple math sup or university in science.
You should see their site :

devenirpiloteairfrance.com

If you get a ATPL JAA theory with CPL/IR ME, you can apply for pilot pro. "Pilot Pro" is a die (i don't know how to explain...) it is not "cadets" because you allready have got a CPL/IR.

The selection Air France is famous for his dificult in France. it is not easy because they judge you if you have the profile of pilot or not.

re moi!

j\'ecris en français.

Donc voilà si vous avez des questions n\'hésitez pas je me suis renseigné sur AF, car je tente la sélection en 2007 après mon ATPL théorique fini.

Donc si vous parlez français, pas de problème! si vous avec un ATPL JAA pas de problème!

ATTENTION : si vous avez plus de 23ans et que vous voulez postuler en filière professionnelle c\'est à dire qu\'il faut que vous ayez l\'atpl et le CPL/IR ME, alors il vous faudra attendre 5 ans avant d\'être convoqué à la sélection ! oui 5 ans! car il y a du monde qui se présente à la sélection.

[jmc1980]

Juger la catégorie par un ou deux cons qu'on a eu l'occasion de croiser ne rend pas justice à la grande majorité.

Flyblue, désolé mais là, tu déformes mes propos. Où est-ce que j'ai généralisé à tous les pilotes AF???? De plus je ne penses pas que tu aies volé avec tous les pilotes d'AF, et peut etre y at il plus de cas dans d'autres secteurs que le tien (si tu es à AF). Et je finirai par dire que les quelques personnes que je connaisse qui ont été sélectionnées par AF ne sont pas et de loin des gens "agréables", ni des pros du FH ou du CRM. Je ne dis pas ça parce que ça me plaisir de critiquer AF qui est une excellente compagnie où j'aimerais bien travailler, mais ce que j'ai décrit dans mon précédent post est quelque chose que je trouve absolument inadmissible mais qui se répete semble il assez souvent. Pour nous autres volant dans d'autres compagnies on doit souvent subir leur mauvaise humeur ou leur impatience, mais pas de pot parfois y'a un frenchy qui comprend les réflexions douteuses à son encontre, meme si ce frenchy vole pour une low-cost.

Apparement malgré leur programme CRM top niveau y'a encore des investissements à faire:hmm:

[EPL05]

"AF recruit 200 pilots all the year.
200 include : 60 cadets, it is like in UK, so you call this "cadet sponsoship".
and recruit 140 pilot with a JAA ATPL(CPL/IR ME) no MCC!"

not exactly : AF recruits 200 pilots a year, ok,
but there are at the moment around 40 Cadets and 40 pilots from the ENAC in this 200. So that makes 120, minus military pilots, I can't remember how much.

Donc Air France prend effectivement 200 pilotes par an, mais en comptant 40 kd, 40 EPL et les militaires.

[sam34]

ouai c'est ça.
Mais quand tu passes les pros tu es avec des EPL auss et les militaires. Et ce ne sont pas les meilleurs. Je connais quelqu'un qui a été pris alors des militaire on été ajournés...
C'est une sélection et non un concours.