View Full Version : Sea Harrier
Logistics Loader
11th Oct 2005, 13:10
A Sea Harrier FA2 which crashed on 11 June 2003 has not been included in the second part of this table as its parent service has yet to be determined
Just read this on a web site ...!!!
Am i missing something here???
Surely it belongs to the RN....or because the fly boys come under the FAA, is this causing confusion in the Snr Service..???
Awaiting Inbounds !!!
ZH805 on a test flight out of St Athan after servicing from DARA. So who "owned" it and authorised the flight at the time?
Logistics Loader
11th Oct 2005, 13:37
I guess then the rules for a/c are somewhat different to you placing your car in a garage for a service...
eg...
my car goes to Halfrauds for a bog standard service, they then crash it , who does the vehicle belong to at the time of the crash??? My name is still on the Log Book..
Surely the a/c F700 would show the "owner" in this case the RN or FAA....
DARA being a servicing agency dont own aircraft do they??
Navaleye
11th Oct 2005, 13:53
Since JFH was formed the Shars are all owned by Strike Command.
southside
11th Oct 2005, 15:03
Since JFH was formed the Shars are all owned by Strike Command
No they are not. Thats the point of this thread. Only SHARs which form the active fleet are owned by Strike. When the aircraft goes to St Athan it becomes part of the In Active fleet and is owned by DARA - as it is them what pays for the servicing. The MOD then pay DARA for the privalege.
The reason this incident caused problems was that it was on its way back to the active fleet (but hadn't yet been handed over), hence the debate about who owned, authorised it.
In reply to the comment about Car servicing and Halfords just think of it this way.
When your Fiesta needs a service, you take it in to the Ford Garage and they take it off you, give you a servicable one in return and then they service yours. When yours is fixed they give it to the next bloke who comes along.
Logistics Loader
11th Oct 2005, 15:09
SS
You missed my point i think...
If vehicle or a/c is crashed whilst in possesion of a 3rd party....who does the vehicle belong too???
The V5 shows me as legal owner of my 4x4...not Halfrauds for example....
Like the F700 would not show DARA as the registered owner of ZA123 for instance....surely it would be MOD (RN) (FAA)
What about the broken aircraft at FFD....????
Operating under charter to MOD, but the aircraft is not owned by MOD.....
The Rocket
11th Oct 2005, 18:32
Think you're the one missing the point slightly LL,
F700's are not like V5 registration documents, and aircraft will go through many different "Owners" during their lifetime. I cannot recall anywhere on the 700 where it refers to the Parent Service of the aircraft.
Southside's explanation is how I understand the process to be.
Logistics Loader
11th Oct 2005, 18:42
TR,
Thanx for that...but i'm still somewhat perplexed by the ownership of a/c.....
I appreciate the F700 is a servicing document, but i spose i forgot to mention i was using that as an example...
As for SS explan, i know the process of having a car serviced and getting a replacement....i've had a few in 20yrs of driving...
My point is I am the legal owner on the V5, regardless of who was driving, therefore if a/c AB123 is "owned" by the RAF, then even if it is in the hands of DARA, it is still the RAF's property...
If not, then does that mean DARA will have to pay for a new a/c...???
The Rocket
11th Oct 2005, 18:50
I think what Southside is saying with that description, is that it's not a case of taking your own car to the Ford garage, as obviously, your car would still belong to you, and you would expect the same one back,
More that the pilot delivers AN aircraft to DARA for a servicing, but once in the hands of DARA it is then their property, and the pilot flies back in a replacement.
The replacement is now owned by the RAF eg, and DARA owns the original aircraft. This means that on completion of the servicing, the A/C could in theory go to QinetiQ, BAE, RN.......
As I said, that's how I understand it to be
roughly!!!
Logistics Loader
11th Oct 2005, 19:11
TR,
That was a better description, I now see where SS was coming from, I didnt realise that a/c AB123 may not go back to where it started from...
All about accountability now then i guess, DARA or RN to foot the bill....
Toxteth O'Grady
11th Oct 2005, 19:18
I guess in the pecuniary times in which we work aircraft ownership will be determined through RAB.
:cool:
TOG
The Rocket
11th Oct 2005, 20:02
Or of course the fact that
Possesion = 9/10 of the Law:p :p