Flying in the face of the law - pilot bikers land fines

[Transition Layer]

Flying in the face of the law - pilot bikers land fines

By Steve Butcher, Sydney Morning Herald
October 10, 2005

Conditions were perfect for flying when the Virgin Blue pilots Patrick Devlin and Michael Stewart prepared for take-off in Melbourne at 8.25pm on January 18.

The weather was fine, visibility was good, the runway dry and traffic medium.

But rather than leaving the ground, Captain Devlin, 30, and Captain Stewart, 32, roared east on to Queens Road, St Kilda, on their 1000cc Suzuki motorcycles. A Melbourne Court was told that when they took off, so did senior constables Shane Barmby and Mark Rowe in their marked V8 police car.

Senior Constable Rowe said he accelerated to 160kmh to catch up to the bikers and then maintained an even distance over about 300 metres.

He told Melbourne Magistrates Court on Friday he had checked the bikes' speed at 140kmh in a 70kmh zone before activating the car's lights and sirens.

Senior Constable Barmby said he then saw Devlin remove his hands from the bike and hold his arms out as all vehicles slowed down before Chapel Street.

Devlin, of Kensington, said in evidence he accepted he was speeding, but "not in excess of 100kmh", and that he had been adjusting his jacket as he slowed.

Giving evidence, Stewart, of West Melbourne, said he "proceeded through" the speed limit to about 95kmh in third gear; then rolled off the throttle and idled.

Both men pleaded not guilty to charges of exceeding the speed limit, driving at a speed dangerous, driving in a manner dangerous and careless driving. Devlin also denied failing to have full control of a vehicle.

Magistrate Lionel Winton-Smith dismissed all charges except the offences of exceeding the speed limit and careless driving.

Devlin and Stewart were each convicted and fined $500 and had their licences suspended for one month.

[Contract Con]

Haha, well done boys!

But why did you roll OFF the throttle and not wind it ON!?

Cheers,

Contract Con:}

[balance]

Virgin Passengers Beware! Why would you fly this airline if they employ fools like this.

Who would fly with guys that clearly couldn't give a rats @rse about others lives like this.

Think about it, a car swerves to avoid one of these clowns, loses control and hits another car / truck / building etc. PEOPLE DIE.

A wise man once said to me "you want to learn about your pilots - watch the way they drive". Very good advice.

You cannot tell me that these guys ride like this and then leave it behind in the air.

Branson - sack these idiots. They are smearing the good name of the rest of your pilots for cheap thrills.

[Chimbu chuckles]

not a very balanced moron...but a moron non the less!

[PW1830]

Branson - a name not associated with risk taking.
Lets publish the name of every pilot caught speeding, parking dangerously, jaywalking. Make it part of the licence renewal medical quiz.
Must be a slow news day.

[chookcooker]

...especially when the article includes "Magistrate Lionel Winton-Smith dismissed all charges except the offences of exceeding the speed limit and careless driving" which may be correct, but whats "exceeding the limit", is it the alleged 140, or the claimed 95? Sounds like mallicious court reporting to me....

Balance, its always impressive to see people like you fly off the handle and jump to conlusions when presented with little or no facts..

[Hugh Jarse]

Not condoning any of the actions reported above, but Balance, did you know that QF has a lage motorcycling fraternity, who also enjoy a little fun at times.:E

Among the ranks are a few very senior pilots.

Once again, a pissweak media focussing on a minority.:yuk: Bet if it was a couple of carsoles in their hotted up V8/riceburner/whatever, it wouldn't even rate a mention as it's so common.....

FREE BOUGAINVILLE!!:}

[flugenluft]

Balance, they got convicted of speeding. Nothing more. It happens everyday all over Australia to average Mums and Dads caught by a police dept motivated by an obligation to their respective State Governments to raise revenue.

Well done boys. 140 on a 1000cc? Taking it easy eh?

:ok: :ok: :ok:

[Capt Claret]

I'm afraid the relevance of their employer or profession to the offence escapes me.

Balance, I think it might be time to visit Uncle Bob.

[NAMPS]

Must have been a very slow news day... I can't see how being a pilot makes it any more newsworthy, are you for real balance?... :zzz:

[Mr.Buzzy]

Might be time to open that can of "shut the bzzz up" balance.

bbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Gnadenburg]

Quote Buzzy From Another Thread " The VB chap mentioned is perhaps one of the best operators in the game, the fact that he has achieved what he has at his age and has stayed so balanced is testament to this. I can't comment on the Raffy but I'd say that a mate of Capt.D would have to be AOK"

Mr Buzzy seems besotted by a handsome, young Captain Delvin.

Why don't you tell him your feelings Buzzy? He may be more understanding than you think, he resides in the pink Melbourne suburb of Kensington.

[sir.pratt]

considering an off the shelf 1000cc suzuki will do 0-100k in a lazy 2.6 seconds, in first gear, what's the big deal?

[Ultralights]

140? is that all? whats that, just top of second?? or was that 140 Kts!

[balance]

Hang on. These fellas were doing TWICE the speed limit. 140 in a 70 zone. And you people not only seem to think it is acceptable, but somehow justified?

This is not just your typical 10 to 20, or even 30 kmh over the limit. 140 in a 70 zone? Fark me.

Jesus. Woe betide not only aviation in Oz but our roads as well if you people are somehow going to attempt to justify this. It sort of explains some of the carnage out there on our roads....

[Transition Layer]

Wish I could post the little cartoon that accompanied the article, but the caption will have to do.

Went something like "This is your captain speaking. Look no hands!"

:p

TL

[Mr.Buzzy]

Nice idea Gnadburger.
Seems you have plenty of time to search quotes and behave like a jealous bitch, perhaps you are the one that needs to find a lover!

bbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[John Eacott]

Balance (or lack of.....)

Where was it proven that anyone did twice the posted speed limit? The accusation from the Senior Connies was not proven according to the court report, and a penalty of 1 month's suspension is more in keeping with exceeding the limit by 25kph, IIRC.

And since any normal thinking pilot would see your diatribe against Those who Transgress as a narrow minded lot of b@lls, I am happy to post in my real name, and admit to a lifetime of absolute fun, driving as fast as I can whenever the conditions permit, and whenever I can get away with it :p :cool: :rolleyes: :ok:

[vee1-rotate]

Love your work John...let me know when your going to head up for some barrel rolls in the Jetranger:D :D :D

Balance...http://www.wiggles.com.au (http://www.thewiggles.com.au) try this website if you are bored in the future...

[Ultralights]

funny thing with bikes, at higher speeds, no hands riding is quite easy, and safe, higher speed = more stability, and at speed you turn with your body weight, not the handlebars. or even turn the Other way, to go left, you turn the front wheel a tad to the right and lean into the left.... and vice versa..

on a bike its very easy to double the speed limit just overtaking or passing a dangerous driver. from cruising at 70 kph, kicking it back a gear, cranking on throttle, looking back to see where the traffic is, in that timeframe, you will easily exceed 120 Kph or 140... its not uncommon on the open highway to start passing 2 or 3 cars at 100 kph, and by the time you pull back in you will be at 170 or higher.. especially on a big capacity sports bike


on the safety side, if Every road user rode a bike for just 1 day!!! the roads will be a much safer place..... being an ex pro driver, the nuber of people in cars simply not paying attention is unbelievable... i have seen countless accidents where people have ploughed full speed into the back of parked cars they should have seen minutes ago.......

on a bike, you cannot afford to not pay attention... 99% of car drivers simply dont look for bikes! if the rider felt safe in doing said speeds then im sure the road was safe to do so..... somone doing the same in a car would be much more dangerous.... as they might not be paying full attention to what they are doing...

[The The]

Was he booked for speeding or; wearing an 80's bomber jacket, aviator sunnies, no helmet and some really crappy background music (bet he was humming it at least)

[D SQDRN 97th IOTC]

Ultralights - have you ever ridden a large bike at speed?

"funny thing with bikes, at higher speeds, no hands riding is quite easy, and safe, higher speed = more stability, and at speed you turn with your body weight, not the handlebars. or even turn the Other way, to go left, you turn the front wheel a tad to the right and lean into the left.... and vice versa.."

Now the funny thing with bikes is that the front brakes are on the handlebars. In an emergency, if something runs out in the road, all a rider can do is stamp on the rear brake. This equals rear wheel lock up lock = slide into back of parked car.

Higher speed = more stability? Errrrr - not always. You get more gyroscopic stability from the wheels, but high speed instability resulting from worn / out of balance tyres sometimes require steering dampers to keep bikes under control. And with partially filled fuel tanks, as the oscillations start, the tank slapper can come on. Have I ever had a tank slapper below 70 kph? Never. Have I had any tank slappers above 140kph? Yup.

At speed you turn with your body weight, not handlebars? Errrrr - only if you are really careful about it, and don't need to turn in a hurry. And if you do it this way, you have to be real careful for the bike not to fall in. Now what really happens if you want to turn left at high speed is that you push slightly with your left hand, and pull with your right. Get that? By steering to the right, the centralpetal force will make the bike want to turn left, and then you catch the fall with the handlebars when the bike is pointing in the right direction. Now if you try to turn suddenly with no hands on the handlebars, the front wheel will tuck under, and spit you off like a prat.

Do I speak from experience? More than 250,000 miles on R1s, Gixxers, Thunderaces, etc. Have I ever crashed by riding like these guys? No.

And as for the 140 in a 70. Sure - illegal. But these Gixxers can stop from 140 to zero in less distance than a clapped out banger can stop from 70.

rant from the UK over

[balance]

Eacott, what do you think he is gonna say? You actually think he'd tell the truth? And admitting that you drive / ride as fast as you can whenever you THINK you can get away with it?

Goodo mate. So what happens when that kid jumps out on the road in frint of you. You must be reeeeeaaaaaallly goooood.

Fricking glad I don't have to go flying with you.

[iceblock]

Have to agree with SQDRN 97th,

It is the stopping ability that makes it all the more different from a car.

Balance, you have obviously never spent any real time on a motorcycle otherwise you would not be harping on about 140 in a 70. Just like 180 in 100 is no problem on the right road either.

I admit it's illegal but nearly impossible to control the urge to go fast, especially on a bendy road.

I vote for different speed limits (or even different roads) for bikes!

By the way how someone rides there tranportation on the road has no correlation to how they do their job. Otherwise accountants would always be falling asleep at the wheel in their Volvo's.:p

[NAMPS]

balance, I'm glad you're not a Magistrate.

You were not in court to hear the evidence and yet you make a conclusion that is opposite to the Magistrate's findings.

You seem to think that all police are infallible. Police make mistakes in observations and that is leaving out the corruption (although I do not suggest that there was any corruption in that instance).

It is up to the police to prove the offence beyond reasonable doubt. If there is any plausible explanation for the police observations, or there is any doubt as to ability to make observations, then how can anyone be certain that the alleged acts took place?

I do not understand how you make the connection where riding a bike fast makes you unfit to fly an aircraft. I like to ride bikes fast but always fly within the limits of the POH and/or Ops manual - I'm sure that is the case with the DJ pilots.

[relax737]

This may hve been said, but my position is that if you're prepared to wilfully violate the law on the raod, then you are probably prepared towilfully violate the law elsewhere; why wouldn't you?

Iceblock said "I admit it's illegal but nearly impossible to control the urge to go fast, especially on a bendy road."

That may be so, just as I occasionally find it "nearly impossible" to choke my wife, but I resist because it's a violation of the laws of the country.

When people wilfully violate the laws, and if that is accepted as the 'norm', then the country descends into anarchy.

Have I ever been guilty of speeding? Once about 30 years ago, although not wilfully, copped the heavy fine, and haven't done it since. I don't pretend to be a good two shoes, but I do have a sense of responsibility toward other road users and the community, and no doubt a fear of the c nsequences if I came unstuck.

However this is seen, it can't be good publicity for VB in my view, and shouldn't be seen any differently from DUI which has always been regarded seriously by airlines, and perhaps indicative of a deeper underlying problem.

D SQdrn 97th I accept what you say about stopping, and obviously you're an experienced rider, but if this resulted ina death of a third party, then it would be the slammer for Mr Devlin.

I suppose I see the actual location of the offence, Queens Road with a 70 kph limit, as opposed to the Calder freeway with 100 kph limit, as being the ultimate im stupidity.

At least he fits the VB image, so widely publicised over the past couple of days with regard to the old boilers case, and that is one of flamboyance, and fun, fun, fun. I thought that was what kids had a preschool. Oh well, perhaps showing may age.

If they feel the need for speed that badly, why not spend a hundred bucks, hire the use of Calder Park for a while and belt the $hit out of the bike. Too responsible? Too costly?? Could even do a VB mag spread on the lads. Now there's a ti p for tricky dicky

"Was he booked for speeding or; wearing an 80's bomber jacket, aviator sunnies, no helmet and some really crappy background music (bet he was humming it at least)"

Probably right on there TT

[18-Wheeler]

A wise man once said to me "you want to learn about your pilots - watch the way they drive". Very good advice.

What an utter load of s**t.

I have been racing cars for nearly twenty years and I most certainly do NOT fly like I drive.

I used to be pretty 'positive' when I flew the bank runs in the Metro, but not anymore.
(Especially considering the equipment I'm now in)

[relax737]

So does "positive" mean a little irresponsible 18 wheeler??

If so, then perhaps learning about your pilots from the way they drive isn't all that inaccurate!! Maybe.

And what equipment do you drive now, a semi trailer or 747?

[Contract Con]

Both guys are two of the sharpest riders around that I know. Plenty of track time between them and neither are reckless in anything that they choose to do.

As has been mentioned earlier, 140 on a GSXR:zzz:

Now the clapped out cop car doing 160 to catch them, that is just plain irresponsible!

Their work ethic and ability has gotten them where they are today.

The remarks regarding their professionalism is just sour grapes.

Happy riding,

Contract Con:ok:

[Capt Claret]

Jeez, some folk are drawing long bows. To draw a correlation between the willingness to speed and therefore break Air laws is utter codswallop.

I know because I've only become an adherer of speed limits as I've gotten older and realised that the fines aren't worth it. However, I don't fly >250 kias B100 in Class G, bust minimas, overload, diverge off track without a clearance etc etc.

I will say though, if I didn't sit on 140 kph for much of my road journeys to MEL or ADL or BNE, or WA, I'd never get there. Ya gotta love The Territory, where you can overtake a copper at 140klicks, and they don't even blink at you! :cool:

[Lead Balloon]

Relax737 you say

That may be so, just as I occasionally find it "nearly impossible" to choke my wife, but I resist because it's a violation of the laws of the country.

Surely you would resist for other reasons before lawful ones??

There's the law and there's simply doing the right thing...

The bigger difference here is surely the case that a misdemeanor in speeding on your bike only risks yourself. With a passenger jet its a totally different story... and there's no data logger on a bike, I would assume that if every vehicle had a black-box we would all behave just the way that you want us all to.

[relax737]

The bigger difference here is surely the case that a misdemeanor in speeding on your bike only risks yourself.


Have a think about it LB. What about the pedestrian you hit? What about the car you hit? A bike that size would weight 300 kgs??? travelling at 140 kph. That's a lot of kgs lbs there.

Small frontal area as well. If it hit a car square on the driver's door, then the driver would be killed, surely.

I don't care if these guys risk their own lives, but don't take risks with others.

The point I made was that if they really feel the nbeed to go that fast, Calder Park is probably a better bet than Queens Road.

[Aussie]

Capt Claret.... I couldnt have said it better myself.

Totally agree.

Aussie

[7gcbc]

ah 135mph on the A22 Caterham bypass, those were the days.........

136 in France once, cos back then les flic's n'allez bother pas with the paper work...

kids now, so none of that silly [sic] stuff anymore.

I don't see a problem at all with what those two guys were doing. (it was dry, wasn't it ? )

currently expecting a 85 radar on the Glebe Island 60, but wife has run a red so she's 300 ducks ahead <snigger>

[flugenluft]

Ya gotta love The Territory, where you can overtake a copper at 140klicks, and they don't even blink at you

I had the very pleasure of doing 160 past coppers in the Territory in a hire car a few years back. It's very refreshing! Think I may have even planted the foot when I saw them. It's the bloody camels you've got to worry about!!

:}

[Spinnerhead]

Onya Pat. Good to see a Pilot with a zest for life. I do pity these pathetic sods living in their politically, morally, socially correct worlds.

If I drove like I flew, I would have been a road statistic years ago.:}

[balance]

You people who seem to suggest that it is OK not just to speed, but to speed excessively, absolutely disgust me.

Why? Try losing someone you love to reckless behaviour on the road. I have. It ain't nice, I can tell you.

But then for you guys, it's just "fun" right? WRONG.

Spinner, you are getting "zest for life" and "irresponsible behaviour" mixed up. No one is suggesting you can't have fun. 18 Wheeler does it on a track. Fine, good on yer mate. But you do it on the open road and risk the life of my babies just because you want to have "fun", and I will condemn your behaviour.

You people who are suggesting that speeding is OK are acting like surly, immature teenagers. Grow up.

Thank you, relax. You took up my argument and put it far more eloquently than I could hope to. Good to see someone else out there who doesnt behave like an immature fool looking for an accident.

[chookcooker]

relax737,

The thing stopping you from choking your wife is the law?
And you think THESE guys sound dangerous?

[Hugh Jarse]

I know because I've only become an adherer of speed limits as I've gotten older and realised that the fines aren't worth it.

"The older I get, the faster I was" was a sticker I had on my last bike helmet, Clarrie. :} BTW Missed Bracken Ridge by 1 day....

Hands up all those licenced drivers/riders who've never sped, intentionally or otherwise?

Nope, thought not. I guarantee in SY if you stick to the speed limit you would soon get hit from behind by EVERYONE else who isn't adhering to the limit. That's just the way it is. Everyone's in a hurry to get somewhere...

Relax737, the bikes in mention weigh approx 170kg dry. Even my Bavarian Money Waster weighs less than 250kg :E

As a matter of fact, the majority of collisions involving cars and motorcycles (in Oz) are caused by the car driver. Something in the order of 75%. Therefore, if the T-bone you described occured, it would most likely be the car driver's fault.:yuk:

[Exsight]

Its articles like this that make me hate the media and clearly alot of you here who posted have fallen into the trap. Read the last few lines of the article, the FACTS are that they were found GUILTY of SPEEDING being 25-30 km/h (which in Victoria equals a mandatory 1 month suspension of your drivers licence) over the limit and CARELESS DRIVING. NOT 140 in a 70 zone as the article would have you believe. BTW are you sure your in balance, balance or a you really that much of a fw/believer? I'd be more worried about the coppers doing 160 to catch up.

[iceblock]

clearly alot of you here who posted have fallen into the trap. Read the last few lines of the article, the FACTS are that they were found GUILTY of SPEEDING being 25-30 km/h

Mate, none of us have missed THAT point as it was made on page one, so no, sorry to dissappiont but we have not fallen into the crafty media trap. We have read the article and the FACTS have been noted.

Best you catch up with proceedings...

[sweetpollypurebred]

Let`s not be confused here people, these 2 blokes have the maturity of a couple of 12 year olds. Simple as that. Stalk beaters.:yuk:

[schnauzer]

The guys admitted to doing a lower speed. Doesn't mean that they weren't doing a higher speed but DIDNT admit to it. Why would you? I wouldn't if I were in their shoes. It's is human nature.

Foolish and immature behaviour that is not appropriate for a pilot. And why should a pilot be any different to that of a politician, or judge, or media personality. These people are crucified when this sort of thing happens. The pilot has FAR more responsibility than any of these people. Arguably then, it is MORE important for the pilot to abide by the rules.

And behaviour that I believe will be taken into the air. Rules and laws are just that. A propensity to break them won't just be an isolated behaviour. Once again, it is human nature. The thought process is that "I got away with it then, so I won't get caught here..." Simplified, yes. But still relevant.

I know because I've only become an adherer of speed limits as I've gotten older and realised that the fines aren't worth it.
Quite frankly Claret, your words scare the hell out of me, as do many of the others on this thread, especially so for pilots. You have missed the point that others were trying to make so obviously, that it is downright frightening.

It is not about the implications of a fine. It is about the implications of taking a life. Like balance, I too have known several people whose lives have been taken by stupidity on the road. Claret, you CANNOT put a monetary value of a fine on their lives. For you to do so in such a dismissive manner speaks volumes about your character, or lack therof.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Ya just gotta love how some blokes think they are on the same par as media personalities or judges or politicians!
Talk about ego!
Order... order.... I said order on the flightdeck!!!!!

bbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbzzzzzzzzzzz

[schnauzer]

Nothing was stated to suggest that they were on a "par" with those people, Buzzy. Just that they would be hauled over the coals in the media spotlight for their transgression. Yet, their position carries far less responsibility than that of a pilot, wouldn't you say?

Interesting contrast, IMHO.

And Buzzy? Please don't twist words you annoying ignorant twit.

Ban him again, Woomera. He contributes ZERO to any of these threads other than to annoy and abuse.

[DeBurcs]

should a pilot be any different to that of a politician, or judgeBut we are. I haven't heard of too many pilots who, when old and limp, turn to small boys for their stimulation because nothing else will get it up for them anymore.

These pilots are not at fault, society is. It is our society who embraced "Top Gun" and made it the cult attraction that it is. These pilots were obviously subconsciously living out their own fantasies about the motorcycle scenes. Okay that was a joke.

But really, who cares?

If these pilots were bank workers, would you withdraw your cash from these reckless cash managers?

If they were firemen, would you move to someplace where you would not risk being "rescued" by them?

Pilots are machine-managers. I'd say the pathetic whinings here would be justified if these guys had ridden into a shop-front while attempting high-speeds.

The fact they were able to safely attain the speeds they did, with or without hands on the grips, says they are capable of dealing with an "extreme machine". Just what I would expect from an airline pilot I trust my life to.

Pilots should be exempt from speed limits. At the very least, people should be rated for their capabilities individually. Fighter pilots should be allowed to go the fastest and private pilots who are doctors should be required to always have an instructor with them.

In a perfect world this would happen and no one would get in anyone else's way and my old grand-dad would not be terrorising the driving world just because he has the same car-licence these pilots do.



Disclaimer: The use of the term "extreme machine" is is not in any way meant to detract from the knuckleheads in the RAAF who as we all know fly the real "extreme machines."

[Ultralights]

i think someone has missed the point of my post, unusually high speeds on powerul bikes is an easy thing to do, even for brief periods of time... and be honest, we have all done it... thats why you ride a sports bike isnt it?
second, i am(was) a prefessional driver, and almost 1,000,000 km later with not 1 driving offence or accident is testimate to my driving ability... and as for never been on a bike, i have a 650GS and a CBR250RR.
I dont believe the said riders actually rode hands in tha air! but legally EVERY person who drives a car, and rides a bike loses control, as they change gears, open a vent on their jacket, change to reserve tanks, turn on air conditioning....... all involves removing a hand from the wheel or handlebars.. riding down a road, reaching down to change to reserve tank or adjust a jacket, does not constitute loseing control.. booking somone for loseing control is just nitpicking.. how many times driving to work, or more likely driving home after a long shift have you accidentally crossed a lane marker? opps, 3 points! thats neg driving and changing lanes without an indicator!!

i also do not condone speeding, especially in built up areas, but there are some areas that are marked way below a safe limit, eg in south sydney, a newly opened section of freeway conditioned, posted at 60 Kph... nothing either side for 4 km but sound barriers and rock walls. not a side street or footpath to be seen. in this area alone, i will bet my house that 90% of the traffic on that bit of road exceed the limit by at LEAST 20Kph.

all my excessive speeding is commited at eastern creek, Oran Park, wakefield, or west of the black stump in a place called NT! or the occasional overtaking manouver...

but making judments on somones flying ability based on their riding or driving is obsurd..

[Mr.Buzzy]

Ban him again, Woomera. He contributes ZERO to any of these threads other than to annoy and abuse.

Fight your own battles Shizer!

bbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzGIRLzzzzzzbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[DeBurcs]

By the way, the truly disgraceful aspect to all of this is not that someone went fast on a bike but that someone, a pilot no less, posted the news all over the internet.

This is not news, people, this is the garbage you are fed to make you feel well-informed whilst the gov't and big business do what they want with the country. Focus your outrage elsewhere.

TL, when you, in a moment of poor-judgement as we all have from time to time, allow a skeleton out of your closet, do you want it splashed all over the media so we can all discuss you and your suitability as a pilot/citizen/human being/whatever?

And is being "first in with the news" here on pprune worth the knowledge that you helped name a pair of your fellow professional pilots who probably already feel suitably remorseful?

[schnauzer]

DeBurcs, you too have missed the point. This is not just about a momentary error in judgement. 140km/hr in a 70 km/hr zone on Queens Road St Kilda is NOT a momentary lapse. It is serious sh1t.

How many kids walk along that road and cross over unexpectedly? My guess - plenty. At 70 you might have an option of stopping. Or not. But at 140 your chances are SUBSTANTIALLY reduced, and I don't care if you are Valentino himself.

The arguments presented by you and your mates to somehow suggest that this was only minor, it wasn't actually their fault, or some other ludicrous twist is seriously disturbing, because it indicates a propensity for pilots to break laws that are designed to protect our safety - something which should be sacred - especially to a pilot.

[Mr.Buzzy]

If it were a QANTAS pilot though?..... Different story I suppose.

It's just fine for a couple of "balanced" crusty old QF captains to belt one another in view of the public? Nothing illegal there? Nothing deliberate?

Leave work time to work time and home time to home time!

bbbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzbbbbbbbbbzzzzzzzzzz

[schnauzer]

As is usually the case Buzzy, YOU ARE WRONG. It doesn't matter which company you work for, Virgin, Qantas or Airlines of Dubbo. Ultimately the responsibility is the same.

Your attempt at a diversion is nothing short of pathetic.

[DeBurcs]

140km/hr ... is NOT a momentary lapseThen what is it?

Are you saying these two guys set out that day with pre-meditated behaviour on that stretch of St. Kilda Rd. on their minds?

Were you there? Did you see them planning it?

While we're at it, did you see the children and the other hazards?

It's not minor, I never said that. You did. But it has nothing to do with them being airline pilots so why are you so hung up on this?

These guys decided, apparently on a whim, to speed. Why don't you assume they did so after weighing the risk to others and deciding there were none. Just as they do everytime they take off in a jet, not that their occupations have anything to do with the infraction they committed, despite what you say.

No, for some reason, you'd rather assume they risked all and sundry in a pre-meditated thrill-ride through a toy-strewn lane narrowly dodging children and grannies and putting the fear of God into virgins everywhere.

Seriously, what is wrong with you? Let these guys pay their fines and get on with it. I'm sure they are ashamed, thanks in part to the armchair moralists here on the net who have helped ensure that everyone they work with will be aware of how they spent their spare time.

[Mr.Buzzy]

No, for some reason, you'd rather assume they risked all and sundry in a pre-meditated thrill-ride through a toy-strewn lane narrowly dodging children and grannies and putting the fear of God into virgins everywhere.

There it is folks.... right there.....GOLD!

nice work:ok:

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[Sandy Freckle]

This thread is truly a worry. Unbelievable. People are stating openly that they will speed and break the law. Saying that is is right to do so. Pilots, no less. Seriously disturbing.

Deburcs, are you for real? You must be drunk, mate.
The fact they were able to safely attain the speeds they did, with or without hands on the grips, says they are capable of dealing with an "extreme machine". Just what I would expect from an airline pilot I trust my life to.
Uh-huh. And what happens when something unexpected comes along? Hmmmm? Yesss?

Listen sweetheart, you are out of your depth. You are an immature fool, just like the two pilots involved. Has it occurred to you that an airline pilot will go to great lengths to eliminate risks, because that is our job. Not to take unnecessary risks and show off.

Further, I would suggest that Mr Buzzy was on the right track. This tends towards and organisation like VB. Showy, glamarous and an accident waiting to happen. A systemic culture which takes risks. That wasn't his point directly, but he was on the right track....

[schnauzer]

Deburcs, you are an ignorant fool and I seriously hope that I never come across you on the road. Because you will no doubt be following your "whims" and doing whatever pleases you.
No, for some reason, you'd rather assume they risked all and sundry in a pre-meditated thrill-ride through a toy-strewn lane narrowly dodging children and grannies and putting the fear of God into virgins everywhere.
No mate, I never said or even assumed that. That is your clearly flawed thoughts.

When you lose someone close to you, that is when you may understand. Until that time, you are the one likely to be on the end of the machine which does the killing.

My final word. Grow up.

[Mr.Buzzy]

Sandy,
interpret things how you like.

I would be far more concerned about a crew (At work and in uniform) That decided taking off without runway lights was a good idea!

Like I said.... Home time is home time...... Work time is work time!

Everyone has mud to sling from every fence so perhaps some solidarity in terms of reporting any such events would be a far more productive truce!

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[DeBurcs]

an airline pilot will go to great lengths to eliminate risksSo by your logic, no airline pilot has EVER:

-continued despite discontent over an "un-resolved discrepancy" and flown into a hill-side

-taken off in icy conditions and crashed

-continued toward an area where windshear would almost certainly exist and paid for it

Or, a little closer to home:

-punched another member of the crew on a layover because that raving mincing fag deserved it

-landed knowingly halfway down the runway and rolled off the end

-attempted to over-ride a go-around initiated by another pilot and "re-land" on a short, wet runway with idle reverse

-or even gone to work when he knows he is tired and improperly rested...

-etc etc etc......

You live in a fantasyland, Mr. Freckle. Where can I get some of whatever you're popping...

As for their skills, yes, Mr. Freckle, I would rather have these guys flying the airliner than some Volvo-driving academic tw@t who sits in the over-taking lane doing 10 under the limit stroking his Quaker beard and going "hmmmm" to himself in a dreamland and smoking his pipe.You are an immature foolComing from someone who has named himself after a soiled balloon-knot, I find that comment somewhat hypocritical.

Please refrain from calling me "sweetheart" unless you change handles to something a little less anal-oriented!

By the way, have you done time???

[Ultralights]

amazing..... how somone acts in their personal time with friends is a direct reflection of their professional conduct at work............. or so its assumed.. :rolleyes:

[CAR256]

But... I haven't been to Melbourne for a couple of years, but, I thought that Queens rd was a 60 zone, until you get past Albert park. Then it changes to 70. When the road goes under St Kilda rd, then the dual carriageway is joined with a tram-line in the centre, leaving penty of room.

My point is, on a bike, (people who always follow the speed limit, taking fifty years to realise that a red light has changed green and wonder why there is constantly traffic around them don't realise is) you can get away from traffic, and NOTHING is going to SUDDENLY jump out in front of you, that you would be inept to not see.

This is probebly why they were let off with 1 month suspension.

Woomera? Why were these two guys names made public on the forum, in a non aviation related offence?

Buzzy Rocks!!!

[Mr.Buzzy]

As for their skills, yes, Mr. Freckle, I would rather have these guys flying the airliner than some Volvo-driving academic tw@t who sits in the over-taking lane doing 10 under the limit stroking his Quaker beard and going "hmmmm" to himself in a dreamland and smoking his pipe.

More GOLD!!.....love your wurks deburks.......

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[balance]

Done to death, literally, but one must wonder whether Buzzy has a couple of personas going on this thread?

Either that or they are as stupid and immature as one another...

[Mr.Buzzy]

Immaturity..... Dreadful behaviour..... Ill try to be more "Balanced"

must be hard putting on that mature serious type persona in the jump seat for hours on end!

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[D SQDRN 97th IOTC]

If you put this thread onto Jet Blast, the other ppruners out there might see the thread and add to its colour and richness of thought!

:-)

[Capt Claret]

Schnauzer et al,

You have missed my point entirely. I don't condone the actions of the bikers. I simply can't see how their occupation, or who employs them, is relevant to the allegations (proved to some extent) that they were speeding.

I reiterate, that to claim a speeding pilot is not safe to be a pilot beggars belief. If every one were truthful, then most would admit to speeding at some time.

Lucky for all the up and coming wannabees out there, we're all going to get an attack of the guilts and quit. :yuk:

And Schnauser, how you you get me puting a monetary value on life?

Take the speed limit on the Stuart Highway. For most of the 1700km in the Territory there is no speed limit but one has to drive safely. However, cross the border into SA, same road, same traffic, same conditions, and the speed limit drops to 110.

Are you seriously telling me that 140 klicks north of the border is safe but south of the border isn't? It mightn't be legal south, but that in itself doesn't make it unsafe.

As for my character, well, I'm more than happy with it and sleep well at night.

edit for phat phingers spped instead of speed.

[Chronic Snoozer]

So in the NT they have 'affordable safety' then I guess.....

[18-Wheeler]

Take the speed limit on the Stuart Highway. For most of the 1700km in the Territory there is no spped limit but one has to drive safely. However, cross the border into SA, same road, same traffic, same conditions, and the speed limit drops to 110.

Are you seriously telling me that 140 klicks north of the border is safe but south of the border isn't? It mightn't be legal south, but that in itself doesn't make it unsafe.

That's pretty much along the lines of my argument with people that can't understand that no-one has ever died from speeding.

Ever.

However, far, far too many people have died from excess speed.

[DeBurcs]

It's not the excess speed that kills people, it's the sudden stop...

[Chronic Snoozer]

That's pretty much along the lines of my argument with people that can't understand that no-one has ever died from speeding.
If you agree that 'speeding' generally describes the driving of a vehicle in excess of the posted speed limit, then it is difficult to differentiate between 'excess speed' and 'speeding' - many people have died because of speeding. Driving off the road, missing a corner, sliding off a wet road can all be caused by excessive speed or speeding. I know we will agree that it is the degree to which drivers exceed the recommended speed that has the most to do with how they end up.

This takes nothing away from the argument that in certain conditions 30kph more speed is not less safe. Christ, in Europe you get pulled over for going too slow on an autobahn. (yeah I know, they're built for 250+kph)

Its difficult to believe that fellow professionals believe the notion put forward here that there is somehow a link between the actions of the gents in question and their professional performance as pilots. Again on PpruNe, pilots are put unnecessarily on some pedestal with other highly respected professions so as to expose the apparent lack of virtuousness of these gents, not to mention slag off their employer. What a slow news day story if ever, as if somehow mentioning their occupation makes them deserving of increased, subjective scrutiny. :rolleyes:

What naysayers might consider asking is WTF is society doing allowing the manufacture and purchase of bikes that can do 150kph in 2nd??? :confused:

[Kanga767]

Just to add a little weight to the NT scenario, the Stuart Highway is actually designed with safe travel at high speeds in mind. It is up to the driver to decide what speed is safe for the conditions.


However, the Constabulary will chat you if they consider you have exceeded it. This is something the do-gooders from south who want to impose an open road speed limit on us either forget or choose to ignore.

I, too, cannot understand the relevance of this issue to a person's occupational attitude. Does a Neurosurgeon who gives it a squirt through the Adelaide Hills on a Saturday afternoon necessarily approach a delicate procedure at work the following Monday with the same in mind? Maybe the outlet for having such a professional set of morals towards your vocation is to do exactly that?

K

[Contract Con]

Kanga, you hit the nail on the head.

Nothing like a large capacity V-twin at high RPM to clear your head after a long week or indeed on the way to the sim!

I'm not one for those pesky outragously high reving 4 banga's though, but each to their own:ok:

Ride on,

Con

[ys120fz]

1700 kms of Stuart Highway Darwin to Alice. Don't think so. Closer to 1000. But maybe there are 1700 kms of bitumen roads in the NT. Small point.
Top Gunners, for my money, not the end of the world, but somewhat irresponsible to my way of thinking. 30, 40 or even 50 over the limit on a freeway is no big deal although illegal, but 30+ over the limit on Queens Road is downright stupid, immature and irresponsible.

No doubt enjoying celebrity status in VB though, and maybe even mentioned on the PA's by those oh so stupid Fa's.

[Transition Layer]

For those of you who can't seem to fathom why the media has given this so much attention, it's really pretty simple to see why they've done so.

Firstly, the two offenders have something in common - they are both skippers for Virgin Blue. I'm sure if it was a couple of brain surgeons from Prince Alfred Hospital in Melbourne their occupation would also have been mentioned. A pair of school teachers or a couple of accountants from KPMG probably also.

Secondly, and some of you may find this hard to believe, but the public actually likes to think those up the front of an aircraft are reasonably responsible human beings. Much the same way people will always ask you at the pub, with a beer in your hand, "So how long do you have to wait before you can go flying?".

Incidentally, there was a front page story in the Sydney Morning Herald only a few weeks back, about a top notch surgeon from St Vincents Hospital who got busted for drugs on the Gold Coast. Now, 30km/h over the speed limit is not in the same ball park as a drug offence, but the message is the same:

The public sees a contradiction between a surgeon saving lives and then going out and damaging his own.

The same way they see a contradiction between a couple of pilots who, when at work, have safety as their no.1 priority, but are willing to put their own (and others) lives at risk on a motorbike. I understand the relative risk of their activity has been discussed on here, but joe public isn't to know that.

Obviously, if either of these two had been busted individually, their occupation or background would most likely have never made the press. But link the two together and it's a whole different kettle of fish. And the fact that the two were riding together only goes to show that the act was perhaps pre-meditated and therefore reckless.

TL
:ouch:

[18-Wheeler]

If you agree that 'speeding' generally describes the driving of a vehicle in excess of the posted speed limit, then it is difficult to differentiate between 'excess speed' and 'speeding' - many people have died because of speeding. Driving off the road, missing a corner, sliding off a wet road can all be caused by excessive speed or speeding.

Again - No-one has ever died from speeding.
You show a good example of that in you last sentence above. It was utterly irrelevent as to what the speed limit was on said wet road. They crashed from excess speed, not speeding.
It's exactly the same for every case you can come up with.

[Gnadenburg]

Were the two Virgin Blue captains wearing their uniforms underneath their bomber jackets?

Reason I ask, the incidents I have heard of involving airline crew and speeding, including a serious motorbike offence where one of two pilots left a police pursuit car in it's wake, certain occupational details were left out- for example officer declares in court " we lost Bill Bloggs, an airport worker, whilst our pursuit car was doing 160kph, there was still considerable breakaway speed by the motorcyclist "

So, did these boys have their uniforms on or quickly volunteer, similar to what you hear at the Hamo', their pilot status?

Mr Buzzy

Quoting your previous comments, about one of these blokes who was a Roulette for a day, was keeping with the absurd Aero Club image some of you over zealous VB pilots present- " the VB chap mentioned is one of the best operators in the game ". It was a poignant statement to make professionally, something that is more appropriate at an Aero Club bar than a comment about an airline pilot, granted your's and VB's lofty standards.

Perhaps, your PR Dept could run with this one as a continual saga in the Voyeur Magazine- VB Captain a Roulette for a day, VB Captain Wayne Gardiner for a day & so on!

[Ronnie Honker]

It seems to me there are two camps contributing to this discussion - those who are VB wannabees (and the ex AN cantbees) - and the rest.

The sentence has been passed, which imo was in keeping with the demeanour.
Pilots are people - some like fast bikes, fast women, and fast food. None of those, or the way they use them outside their workplace is any reflection on the way they discharge their duty at work. I know quite a few F/A's who are lousy housekeepers.
End of story.

[gaunty]

Who gives a flying fcuk what their occupation is.

When you have rushed out the front door in response to a crashing noise and find your neighbour dead, after attempting to reverse into a 50kph street to be hit by a big arse bike that wasn't there when he checked (passenger survived) doinghe accepted he was speeding, but "not in excess of 100kmh", :rolleyes: it is of little consequence and even less consolation if indeed he had been an "airline captain".
The other biker with whom he was having a little race kept on going but was eventually found by the police. He got off.
The biker now a hemi will spend the rest of his life in full care at the expense of the Medicare system. The drivers family have had to get on with thier lives as best they can.

I would fight for the Medicare system or something like it to my last breath, but we need to look at who pays for the consequences of someones adrenalin rush.

mrs gaunty and sundry friends and rellys work in the medical profession, ask them about the results of just being a biker, responsible or not who come unglued through their own fault or not.

The sickening trauma and neurological and orthopaedic results that work there way through long term rehab to wind up in full time care for the rest of their unnatural lives.

There is a strong case for simply outlawing big arse bikes as a form of transport or at the least denying them uninsured medical treatment.
Put the cost where it belongs and lets see how much bikers are prepared to pay for their rush.

And yes I once owned a Honda 750cc when they were big bikes, but then I had children and good think about my responsibilities.

[Capt Claret]

ys120fz

If your going to contradict on a matter of fact , it's best to get your facts straight.

You wrote, 1700 kms of Stuart Highway Darwin to Alice. Don't think so. Closer to 1000.

Where as I wrote, Take the speed limit on the Stuart Highway. For most of the 1700km in the Territory ...

Have a look on a road map. Darwin to Alice is near as dammit to 1500 km. It's either just over or just under 200km from Alice to the NT/SA border. So, 1500 + 200 = 1700.

[DeBurcs]

Actually there are three camps here:

- Transition Layer, who steadfastly rises above and won't admit his own private shame at helping name two guys who are guilty of a traffic infraction. Which, details aside, I'd wager everyone of us has also done at some time, TL included.

-Schnauzer who, with TL, seems to have a duopoly on the moral high ground and who also refuses to let it go, having come 4 pages already with his preaching.

- The rest of us who can't understand what this speeding incident has to do with the two guys being airline pilots.


I don't know what exactly TL's purpose was in posting this other than perhaps logging a "pprune scoop". So what is the real topic of the thread? The court has already found them guilty so why does TL need to further crucify them here?

Why did this receive so much attention, TL? Because, TL, the fact they are airline pilots makes the story that little bit juicier for the masses to consume. Nothing more. Even a Virgin Blue passenger could see that, TL, why can't you.

And why isn't TL also condemning the police, whose high-speed driving has also been "responsible" for many deaths over the years. I know a cop who died when the idiot she was with did something well outside of his skill-set and crashed the car.

Now in the pilots' case, the cop admitted to accelerating to 160km/h on the very same street as the two speeding motorcyclists. This is another 20km/h above the reported speed of the offenders and, as has been pointed out, the braking ability of a car is considerably different to that of a motorcycle. "Won't anyone think of the children???"

Why didn't he abandon the pursuit, as is the case in many other pursuits initiated by "sensible" officers?

Could it be that those cops judged that in the given circumstances the speed in their heavy V8 car was not "dangerous"? But that would mean that the motorcyclists, who were actually travelling slower than the cops, were also not driving in a "dangerous" manner!!

This might further be supported by the fact the judge dismissed the charges of(driving) at a speed dangerous (and) driving in a manner dangerousCome on guys, Schnauzer, TL, etc, read the article again and think a little more.


.

[gaunty]

DeBurcs

You got that right, don't get me started on the cops and pursuits, it's taken over 30 years to get it through their heads that pursuit is the least effective and most dangerous way of dealing with them. It seems they have always called off the pursuit just before the chasee wraps himself around an immovable object.:confused:

We lost another of our finest the other day when he got creamed by an innocent driver behind as he apparently decided to do a 180 on a country road we presume to chase someone going in the opposite direction. We'll never know for sure, but we are having way too many.

And then the plod get on the TV and tell us they are very disappointed with our driving, we are all lunatics and "we will get you" :rolleyes:

[Chronic Snoozer]

Gaunty,

If the plods don't tell us about how badly we are all driving who will? They also do shedloads more driver training than the average motorist. Apples with apples shall we?

Your 180 example is irrelevant to speeding AND as an example of cops persisting in chases. I don't know the story but from what you've written the guy could've been doing anything.

I don't have a position either way on high speed pursuits - its a 'ken hard question but it seems to work in the movies.....

[Ejector Pump]

Two idiots turn a public highway into there own personal piece of bitumen and now some of you insinuate that it is the fault of the Police......!!!!!

Phuck me, get real.

Some mention ability of a bike to stop in a short distance (does this make it OK?), well it didn't help a guy I knew who innocently crossed the road. He got cleaned up by a galah speeding on a bike, ripped his leg off, but what the hell, he didn't care in the end, by the time the ambos and cops got there he was dead anyway.

And Guanty, who said it was a pursuit, it would appear that these two idiots were not quite that stupid, and obviously pulled over once the lights and siren were operated.

I was once told, do the crime, do the time, and if that includes public shaming, well, as the saying goes, do the crime, do the time.

[DeBurcs]

Okay so some tw@ts around here think that deliberate public humiliation should be part of an assigned punishment, despite what the courts have said. Interesting concept.

I never realised we had such learned members in pprune, who list better a knowledge than the courts of the suitability of civil punishments among their qualifications.

Let's have Junket Pump step up the crease and be the first to name himself (and his employer) and then describe his own crimes be they speeding, driving after a beer or three, jay-walking, tax-cheating or log-flogging in the boys' showers during summer camp as a lad.

Then we'll all take turns attempting to describe how much of a maggot you are. You can whip yourself too while we're at it.

Get a grip on reality, JunketPump. Jeesuzz. :rolleyes:

edited for phuckwit clarification:

No one ever said it was the fault of the police. Deeper thought appears lost on you.

[inthefluffystuff]

Well what a lot of frog sh*t, I have ridden and raced (and still do) but you don't do it in built up areas and say I am in control all it takes is a furry little beast and it don't need to be big to send you "Flying minus A/C" and if you think the poor animal or person does not panic and make a bad decision trying to get out of your way then you are a di*k he*d

Ask any rider and if he tells you that because you can accelerate and stop quickly you are safe Bullsh*t try that in a low gear where you cannot change down for max. braking.(unless slipper clutches will help you.)

I am no angel but give mine stick out on the roads where most do not see or catch me, if you ride and don't push it bull*hit again, the wankers who are trying to give this justice to say it is OK to act like this in dense public places are sure not gonna get my pity when the law makes you walk for a couple of years.

I know what it is like to turn the wick up on 170hp. but hey keep it for less populated areas stop suggesting that the two (rich) loony pilots are justified in the actions taken. I do not care that the idiots were only a couple over as they were nabbed so speeding was perfomed, also hate the wankers who have not been licenced or lost it and keep riding causing much grief when they prang into some unfortunate without 3rd party or insurance.

[Contract Con]

I'm sorry folks to waste the bandwidth,but it has gotten to the stage now where someone must say,





WHO GIVES A CRAP!!!!


Ride as you personally see fit,accept the consequences if it all goes bad, and if you also happen to be employed as a pilot, operate within the prescribed regs, SOP's and last but not least common sense!

I'm out on this subject.

Cheers,

Con:ok:

[Transition Layer]

DeBurcs,

...helping name two guys...

If they are named in Australia's biggest selling broadsheet newspaper and in other parts of the media, then what the hell is the problem with posting the article on pprune?

I'd wager everyone of us has also done at some time, TL included

Indeed I've been done for speeding and I agree most of us would have been at some point. The point I was trying to make in my post is that with two bikers together, it's hard not to think it wasn't intentional and pre-meditated.

I don't know what exactly TL's purpose was in posting this other than perhaps logging a "pprune scoop".

Why not post it? It's aviation related, and sparks a discussion like this. If I didn't post it, someone else would have. I don't have anything against VB or VB pilots if that's what you are implying.

I wasn't trying to defend the media's actions in my last post, I was simply trying to help some of you see the reason why their profession was mentioned in the media. Re-read my last post if it didn't sink in.

Initially I just posted the article to generate a bit of discussion, but then I couldn't sit back and listen to the dribble much more, which is why I didn't post anything again until the 4th page.

Cheers,
TL :ok:

[Alistair]

Gaunty, don't want to get in to the right and wrongs of the speeding thing, the guy was a knob for doing what he did, where he did and has caused immeasurable harm . BUT
There is a strong case for simply outlawing big arse bikes as a form of transport or at the least denying them uninsured medical treatment. Do you smoke? Do you drink alcohol? Do you drive a car? Do you legally own a firearm? Why would you particularly single out motorcycle riders (apart from the obvious personal experience) when all of these things also impact on the budget of the health system (some a great deal more than motorcycling ever will).

DeBurcs said it all for me, the only people to admit to excessive speed (in a projectile weighing more than a tonne) were the police officers involved. Now maybe police driving at speed is necessary, i don't know, and am not inclined to pass judgement. The only thing i know is that here in the UK they kill a large number of people every year speeding to the scene of an incident that was over before they left. And lets not get on to the subject of unlawful killings with police firearms. (don't run to catch a tube in London if you have the wrong complexion and, outrageously, a backpack on)

[DeBurcs]

"Like whatever..."

I've done my best and now I'm spent. You guys will have to figure it all out on your own now.

When someone comes along and spews forth the sort of offscourings and flapdoodle such as fluffystuff has bitch-slapped us with, I despair not only for for the readership of pprune but for the image of the professional pilot in general.

Fluff has plumbed new depths of tripe, bad grammar and indignity and one can only hope he is, at best, denigrating the profession of hosty, rather than, at worst, that of the airline pilot which has already suffered enough in this thread.

Alas, from what I've seen of pilots' educational standards lately, he probably is a proud junior aviator.

TL, I also tried to show you the real reason the pilots' profession was mentioned but you may need to re-read my last couple of posts.


PS: Thanks, Alistair

Me go now.

[Chronic Snoozer]

So basically what you are saying is that you break the law, or have broken it in a pre-meditated fashion, and would do so again?

May I have your name, licence no and employer again please? I'll be steering clear of your airline. Now is that not the ridiculous attitude which is really being debated here, not whether the particular actions were justifiable?

DeBurcs, give us some more, its a cack.

TL Why not post it? It's aviation related, and sparks a discussion like this. If I didn't post it, someone else would have.
And you thought we'd be interested because......?

[Ronnie Honker]

So ANY pilot (or anyone else posting here) who has KNOWINGLY sped,needs to be:
Named and shamed here;
bollocked as irresponsible idiots at work because of their deliberate speeding;
accused of being potential killers/maimers/speed crazed freaks;
derided as being the ONLY fools in Australia to ever have done it;
accused of being immature;
not having the experience of the ace racers (my god we've got a lot of Wayne Gardiner challengers out there);
scorned just for being YOUNG Virgin Blue Captains.

Get yourselves a life all of you blameless, shameless goody two shoes.

They fcucked up - possibly inadvertantly, as they didn't try to run.
Who hasn't been deceived by tricky speed limit signs?
I unknowingly copped a $250 fine on the Gold Coast last year, because of the cunningly concealed speed limit signs, and a speed camera - neither of which I knew about until the photo and fine arrived in the post.

Pull the plank out of your own eye, before you try removing the speck in other peoples'.

And perlease, can we not have any more "I was an ace racer" stories, ffs.

[Ejector Pump]

When this post first appeared, I had a strange feelng that it may get nasty. And that was after only 3 or 4 posts.

I feel that CONTRACT CON'S sentiment, "WHO GIVES A FCUK", sumed up the importance of it , but sometimes things that shouldn't, seem to get the momentum.

When I first saw the post I wasn’t even going to comment , so what, two dikcheads who obviously didn't give a siht about the other road users, got done for speeding.....(my local rag reports that each edition) but then , a suggestion is made that the cops had the adaucity to check the speed of the two said dikcs, and somehow the cops are responsible. Well sorry, can't help myself.

Those Coppers did what they where paid for, they looked after the public, and the Court agreed, fining the two said law breaking dikcs.

And if those lawbreaker had of been train drivers, ferry boat captains, or taxi drivers, there is a good chance that their names and occupations would have been published in the local rag.

Now, leaving the subject, if I may…..

DeBurcs, the handle is EJECTOR PUMP, not JUNKET PUMP,…perhaps your fingers were a little fast for the brain check… or …maybe you were trying to be funny….:(

Anyway, you seem to have taken a rather precious view to all this, LAW 101 probably mentions....Every person who goes to court is fair game for the press, as, HELLO, it is on the Public Record.

Perhaps you believe that we pilots should be treated differently than the rest of the population. (BTW if you haven't realized, God status has gone downhill since Smithy crossed the Pacific).

As to my indiscretions, , well nothing so serious as to answer the BEAK in person but, as you seem interested …1 on the spot speeding fine, 2 speed camera fines and at last recall 6 parking fines. And I am not proud of any of them.

Hey, In my life I have noted…the older people get, the less PRECIOUS they become.

BTW Master DeBurcs, how young are you.

[D SQDRN 97th IOTC]

so the answer is:

for all those people out there who have had a parking ticket, or been cautioned by the police for being drunk in a public place, or may been rude to someone in a service industry......

you are not wanted by society. you will never find a decent job. you are irresponsible.

you ever tell your wife / mother that she looked beautiful in that dress? You, you, you liar you, you liar. The aviation industry in particular doesn't want you.

ever have a red bill? been late with a payment? been threatened with court action? you are just financially irresponsible - how can you be expected to look after the lives of hundreds of people on board your plane?

you dress like a slob at weekends? you don't exercise regularly? you over-eat at christmas? if you can't look after yourself, how can you be exepected to.....blah...blah....blah

the cretinous stuff posted on this thread....now if someone like "Chopper" tried to get an aviation licence, I can understand the problem somepeople might have !

now as a lawyer in the UK - should I be practising law if I have speeding convictions (which I do.......)? Is anyone of you sanctimonious enough to say to your lawyer when you want a divorce because you found out your wife had been caught speeding in a built up area - "excuse me, but before you respresent me, and I make a case out for custody of the children on the grounds the mother is an irresponsible law breaker, do you have any speeding convictions yourself?"

hahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaha

[DeBurcs]

More importantly... what exactly IS the "D SQDRN 97th IOTC"???

It's not one of those very sad, very tragic, geek combat flight sim "virtual squadrons", is it??

Oh how I'll laugh if it is!!! ;) :} :E

I like your posting style even if you ARE a barking mad loony.

[D SQDRN 97th IOTC]

IOTC means "Initial Officer Training Course" run by the RAF in the UK.

97th refers to the number of the course that I attended back in the 80s.

Not a flight sim...no. Sorry to disappoint.

[DeBurcs]

Shame. But you do realise there isn't exactly a shortage of these nerd Sqns out there...

And there's no shortage of nerds manning them, either!

Isn't it "Sqn" and not "Sqdrn"??

Over here we call it the JOIC.

[inthefluffystuff]

Deburcs

You sound like you would love the world to know you fly sh*t sure as hell impresses me. (I suppose you pull high alpha's and that is better than yourself)

Pilots all wanks? I do not think so but a couple of wayward types who take to the road and ride badly deserve a few harsh words.

Do not believe in job loss for these guy's but a bit of heckling may help.

[coitus interuptus]

D SQDRN I am sorry you have to put up with this neanderthal tripe.

We have many psuedo intellectuals in this part of the world who claim sovereignty to stupid, sub-human behaviour. So small minded and pathetic, their lives are fulfilled by casting aspersion and vilifying, and they define themselves by berating and finding perceived short comings with other individuals. What sad and hopelessly indignified parasites we have to live and contend with down here. Fortunately their numbers are small, despite the vast coverage of their verbal diarrhoea.

Two guys get caught speeding, and it gets turned into one of the greatest sludge fests seen on prune, with parrallels drawn on safety, professionalism and other irrelevant garbage. You guys are an embarrassment to the rest of us! Only in Australia!!

Hope all is well in the Mother land.

[El Oso]

Cannot see why ones private life has to be tied to ones work life. I can see the fish wrapper article now, "pilot seen having a beer at home, neighbour Sharlene says - must be reul dangerouz bloke eh". What next ? Rug dancing for the DFO because you bought a V8 for towing the family boat?

What a load of codswallop. Pathetic media indeed. One knows the difference between work and play and behave accordingly. Nothing more than the journo scum at work on the tall poppy syndrome. Lets just screw up anybody whose made an effort in their lives for any common misdemenour.

I am a keen motorcyclist and also consider myself a responsible airline pilot, I also raced bikes, both MX and superbikes for many years, but never took similar risks in the cockpit. One CPT I flew with in the regionals was perhaps the most conservative and solid skip I ever flew with and he used his old GSX1000R "quite well" on the weekends. No correlation IMHO.

I feel sorry for these 2 young guys. Maybe they did show less than perfect judgement outside work but who hasnt and why should they be shamed like that. Good on the judge for chucking most of the charges - as anyone involved in the legal profession or the Police (from the inside) will tell you its a game and they will throw as many charges at someone as they can, regardless of the truth - more chance of a win that way.

However the media, showing their usual objectivity and professionalsim NOT! Equal treatment for everybody would be nice.

Although IMHO they should be shamed for riding Jap sh*te. Surely a VB skip can afford a nice 999/MVF4/Aprilla, etc, Ha!
:ok:

[18-Wheeler]

Surely a VB skip can afford a nice 999/MVF4/Aprilla, etc, Ha!

I'm not with VB but I'm getting an Aprilia RSV-1000-R in a few months.
Can't wait!
I'm going to get into soooooo much trouble. :D

[Capt Claret]

18-Wheeler

A question and a suggestion WRT to your soon to be acquired Aprilia RSV-1000-R.

Q - Are you going to give up flying on or before aquisition, in anticipation of the trouble you're going to get into and the obvious belief by many that that will preclude you from being a pilot? ;)

S - When you get pinged by the authorities, it might pay to give a name other than 18-Wheeler, otherwise there'll be another 5 pages plus on PPRuNe villifying you! ;) :p

[OhForSure]

It has become quite clear that most of the people that have pinned these two against the wall have no idea about sport bikes.

The performance of these machines is akin to a Formula 1 car. Granted you won't find ALL that many of those on the streets, sport bikes are here to stay. 300kph, 0-100 in 2 1/2 seconds and braking from 100-0 in not much less. You don't buy one of these crotch rockets to cruise around at the speed limit. YET, when was the last time you heard of a sport bike killing anyone OTHER than the rider??? Hardly ever. In fact I've only ever heard of it happening twice.

Don't knock it, till you've tried it. Statistically, more riders crash at under 15kph than at over 100kph.And scientific studies have shown that bikers are also better drivers.

And that is one SAD argument with regards to taking these riding mentalities into the cockpit. I'm sure there are some stranger private acts that go on outside of work!

140 in a 70 zone is amateur hour... come on boys! (Granted, an open road is always a better choice than busy backroads). All I wanna know is if they were on the new '05 bike? I've yet to sample it... but it looks terrific.:ok:

P.S. - Onya 18-Wheeler... (or perhaps that should be 'UpOn 1-Wheeler'???) looks like a mean ride... love it.

[18-Wheeler]

18-Wheeler

A question and a suggestion WRT to your soon to be acquired Aprilia RSV-1000-R.

Q - Are you going to give up flying on or before aquisition, in anticipation of the trouble you're going to get into and the obvious belief by many that that will preclude you from being a pilot?

S - When you get pinged by the authorities, it might pay to give a name other than 18-Wheeler, otherwise there'll be another 5 pages plus on PPRuNe villifying you!

Nah, I have two heads (No, I'm not a Taswegian!)
One for racing, another for living with the 'straights'.


I promise to be (reasonably) good, or at least not get caught ... :D

[Pass-A-Frozo]

So I assume all the people who are shocked at what these two did religously stick to the speed limit. Slow down BEFORE a reduced speed limit sign, and don't speed up until after an increased limit sign? :O

[Alistair]

Hey 18-Wheeler, I own a stinkin rice burning Hayabusa and ride it like a Grandma with a full collostomy bag. It's never been out of 1st gear and has 2 inch chicken strips. Wanna come play in the UK or here http://www.nuerburgring.de/ http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/3906/nurbu.html http://www.motorbikestoday.com/trackguides/nurburgring.htm or maybe we can go and find where they keep spares for all the bits that will fall off that rowdy Itallian poser of a death trap.
http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/moto.gif http://www.augk18.dsl.pipex.com/Smileys/spanky.gif

edit for a couple more url's

[Ultralights]

Hayabusa + NT = Fun.
though your backpack does tend to come off at approx 290... and with swag and usual camping gear on the back top speed is about 280 :(

those verrrry long gradual humps in the sturt become more pronounced at 310 kph.


oh and its ALL LEGAL!!!!

[18-Wheeler]

Hey 18-Wheeler, I own a stinkin rice burning Hayabusa and ride it like a Grandma with a full collostomy bag. It's never been out of 1st gear and has 2 inch chicken strips. Wanna come play in the UK or here http://www.nuerburgring.de/ http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/3906/nurbu.html http://www.motorbikestoday.com/trac...nurburgring.htm or maybe we can go and find where they keep spares for all the bits that will fall off that rowdy Itallian poser of a death trap.



Yeah I'd LOVE to run around the 'Ring some time. I planned to in a car though, but not sure when.

[redsnail]

Hey Alistair,

You mean it occassionally lets up with the rain "oop north" so you can go for a ride? :ok:

Yep, still got the Ducati :E

[OpsNormal]

Sweetpolly. Not at all. You and your bleating friends miss the point, purposefully and continually. No matter what your opinion, nothing gives any of you the right to deride them for their lifestyle choice, no matter what it seems like to you.

It would appear that those who have been objecting the loudest are part of a small percentage that have fallen into the trap of thinking that just because they fly Jet/Turboprop RPT for a living than they have the right to comment about anything or anyone they choose, falsely believing you are taking the high moral ground. This only shows you lot for the self obsessed smug and inadequate fools you are, completely removed from society values while you enjoy your "superiority complex".

Obviously you do not share my (and quite a large percentage of the population) need for a high octane fix from time to time. I demonstrate this by pointing out to you the amount of motorsport on TV in this day and age, and the turn-out to local events is getting better and better as the years go by. Events such as F1, Kart, Superbikes, V8's, WRC, Go Carts etc etc are ratings winners.

The fact that anyone decided to have a quick squirt on a public roadway is not exactly a promotional bell-ringer but nor is it in the league of violent crime either. Stop treating it as though it is, nor is it an indication of how they would handle a Boeing. The two issues are mutually exclusive of each other.

When was the last time you heard of someone holding a 73 on the ground just to see how fast it would go while still on terra firma (apart from a manufacturer's test flight)? Didn't think so....

[Sunfish]

I think you are all missing the point which is this: As a general rule, we cannot and do not hold people to a higher standard of behaviour unless they are in a position of trust.

These two people have done nothing wrong as citizens and nothing wrong as pilots. There is no demonstrated causal link between their behaviour on the road and the behaviour in their chosen occupation and it is madness to suggest there is one.

To put it another way:

- Doctors who smoke.
- Chefs who occasionally don't wash their hands after going to the toilet.
- Judges who park in "no parking' zones.
- Bank clerks who go to the races.
- Policemen who speed.
- Sports stars who fornicate like rabbits with other people's wives.

and so on and so on.

Are you saying that any of the above listed activities calls into question their competence or capability?

[HANOI]

So , Sunfish...you state that " these two people have done nothing wrong as citizens ".
So you see nothing wrong in speeding at up to 140 k/ph in a 70 k/ph zone and breaking the road laws in the process.

[HI'er]

30 and 32 years old!!
Congratulations on obtaining jet Captain status at such early ages, by hard slog and persistence in one of Australia's major airlines.

As you can see guys, there are a LOT of enviable people gunning for you (in typical "cut down the tall poppy" syndrome) in Oz.
Don't forget to look over your shoulders once in a while, and wipe your shoes clean before entering public areas.

All the very best for a long, uneventful aviation career. :ok:

s g

[Dookie on Drums]

I mean people ...really!?!?!:hmm:

Who gives a toss what profession these guys are in??

All arguments put forward have certain levels of merit but it's quite obvious as HI'er stated that it's the good old "cut down the tall poppy syndrome"

I believe if more people experienced the thrill of being on a high capacity bike and how responsive they are then there would only be 1 page on this thread rather than 6 (at this stage).

This coming from a former Fireblade and R1 owner :E :cool:

Seriously people, get a life!:ok:

[Alistair]

Hey Reddo, with this wx maybe i should get a Duckati, bit then i wouldn't be able to keep up with anyone!! How are those mini jets going? You got yourself hitched yet?

[DeBurcs]

The cops probably would've let these two guys off if they'd been on Italian bikes and done a front wheel stand instead of just stopping and rolling over like two whipped dogs.

If they're really hot pilots this should not pose any particular difficulty for them... :ok:

Check out the StreetFighter '03 vid for some good examples.

[redsnail]

G'day Alistair,
Lil jet goes like a cut cat which is a huge change from the mighty Shed. :D A tonne of fun and certainly seeing bits of Europe, CIS and northern Africa I thought I'd never see.

Hehe Duckati, like it. :D Junior's got jap electrics and so isn't cursed by 1. Italian electrics or 2. Lucas the Prince of Darkness' offerings.

Yep, hitched now. :ok: 3 weeks ago. :D




What's the big deal about the blokes speeding. They got caught, copped it sweet and didn't make a big deal out of it. So they're airline captains, who cares? I'd rather the boys let off steam on a bike than in the 737 thanks.

[Bumpfoh]

I believe the over-riding factor here is not what occurred but where.
Being a bike nut as well I'm all for having a fang but there is a time and a place for everything, and Queens Rd. aint one of them for many and varied reasons. :ok:

As mentioned previously what relevence is their place of employ?:hmm: Know a QF driver who did some walking for six months due to poor speedo scan but guess he aint alone. :E