ATPL theory- how long does it take?

[MCT]

Before the JAA, flying schools in the UK would advertise 6 - 8 week ground school courses for a CAA ATPL. Now Oxford etc are advertising 26 week courses.. Why the considerable change in length...????

[herniair]

It happens- when you're being shagged.

[Flyingspaniard]

You should go to the CAA website www.srg.caa.co.uk (http://www.srg.caa.co.uk) and see the learning objectives.

It will then become clear!!

[chewinggum]

why don't you do it at home in 4 weeks like the caa guys did.after all there techs were at bcpl level.

[RVR800]

I only took three days off to do my
CAA ATPLs Tue Wed and then back to resit
one on a Tuesday 2 months later.

The PPSC correspondence course must
have been good..

Its those men in Hoopdorf again - campaign for an AOPA driven N-ATPL

[Rote 8]

Just a quick question to everyone out there who are working on ATPL distance learning courses. How long, roughly a day would you say you spend in the books?

Have just started myself with Bristol and trying to do 3 hours a day during the week with weekends off.

Cheers

[Megaton]

Just wasted 2 hrs (including a bit of ppruning) completing the Air LAw amendments. No mention of when I'll get an amended CD-ROM. :mad:

[prob30]

3 hours a day and weekends off for distance learning??!!! I am doing full time. 8hours in the classroom followed by another 4 hours at night, the same on saturday, off sat night and sunday. I hear distance learning is harder than full time and i can't see you getting thorough the work. Depends on how much time you have available i guess. good luck though!!

[essex_boy]

3hrs per night weekends off for flying. Oats
say 15 hrs (min) per week per frame but it has taking me 20-25hrs per frame some of the
important stuff I record on to MD so i can
listen to it when i,m quite a work.You will find what works for you good luck


EB

[Delta Wun-Wun]

Also studying at Bristol.Workdays I try to do 3hrs,(and take some notes with me to work...he...he...he).Days off are full time study days.Like today,I have so far managed 5hrs.Having a break reading Prune then a couple of hours more.If you can get by on 15hrs a week...Great.I can`t...there is a lot to learn and I only want to go through this once.If I pass then it will be worth it. :eek: ;)

[Snigs]

Rote 8, it all depends on how long you want to take to complete the course. From my experience, if you study at the rate that you've suggested then you'll finish the full (14 subject) syllabus in about a year. Nothing wrong with that, if you've got 18 months then you can cut it down even more. Beware of forgetting the early stuff in the subject if you do take your time though.

Just for you to gauge, I studied a correspondence course full time (not class room, but my spare room!!) and I completed the course and passed the exams in a period lasting about 7 months, and that was working an average of 8 hours a day, six days a week!!

[nunos]

3 hrs each day during the week seems fine if your a 9 - 5, married man with 2.5 kids. WHAT ABOUT THE WEEKENDS ? do you party @ the weekends? if so pack it in because you are not determined enough (what a waste doing nothing, nil, O, none, silch, at the weekends can't understand it)goodluck anyway! :eek:

[avrodamo]

Im on a 12 hour shift pattern 4 on 4 off. I spend 3 hours per night studying on my dayshifts. I get 6 hours done in between days and nights. I spend my half day after nightshifts as a home day( Keep the wife happy and mow the lawn etc) I then spend 2 of my rest days as whole study days. I start at about 8am and go right through thw day to about 10pm, obviously with breaks for meals and brain rest in between. Im on schedule with that and it usually works out to about 26-30 hours per week. I should finish in Dec, and then will revise for 2 months before going down to Bristol and then exams in March. :eek:

[mad_jock]

try and do 2 hrs a night after a 10hr shift. Usually work 2-3 nights aweek depending

Weekends are my best time, out for a beer or 2 on friday night and a bit of a shop on sat morning then hit the books. So 3 hours decent stuff afternoon out in the evening no booze, then sunday up early to the bakers then 10hrs. Going full time in 2 weeks should be done and dusted in 1 month phase 2 OAT depending how much flying / HGV driving i do.

MJ

And Nunos which modular training course are you applying yourself to just now? And also as well could you tell us the work commitments you have?.

[ 18 July 2001: Message edited by: mad_jock ]

[Rote 8]

Guys

Thanks for all of your replies. Most of my boring posts fail to attract much attention. Although I have only just started down this road it seems reasonably clear that I need to put in a bit more study which is exactly what I am going to start doing.

Anyone out there doing less than 3 hours a day and getting by?

[Whirlybird]

Rote 8, people vary quite a lot. I did the old CAA exams so things may be a bit different, but not that different. For the navs, I did about 10 hours a week for a couple of months, then a month's course at Bristol, then 2-3 hours a day for the two weeks before the exams, and passed 7 out of 9. I knew people who did a lot more, and some who did less. For me, fairly short but concentrated work periods with breaks worked better than long periods where the stuff would go in one ear and out the other; I have to learn a lot of new stuff in my day job too, so I felt as though my brain was constantly close to overload if I tried any other way. I also found it better to read it all through and get a general feel for it, then go back and learn it properly. But some people would say the complete opposite. You need to find a study system which works for you. It may be useful to make yourself a plan of what you want to have learned in a particular time period, then see if it works. If it does, fine. If not, you need to do more, or study differently, no matter what anyone else is doing.

Hope that helps and doesn't just confuse!

[Steve McNair]

ROTE 8

I've recently started with Bristol ( just about to send in frame 5 ) If you are spending 3 hours a day studying with weekends off how long is it taking you to complete a frame ? I'm studying about 4-5 hours a day and it's taking me about a working week.

Any ideas as to where you're going after Bristol?

Regards

[Nishko]

I agree with Whirlybird.

I am just finishing the ATPL NAVS with Bristol and am about to go for the 2 week brush up course. I gave up my job to study at home (supposedly full time) but have found my study patterns to be very erratic. I am not very good at spending long periods every day in the books, and instead just do what I can when ever I can. This means that some days I do loads, and on other days some times nothing at all.

I first completed the whole course, and then went back over it all a second time, finding that I understood lots of it far more easily the second time around. It can be surprising just how much you are learning without you realising it. I have a concentration span for study that is about as long a it takes to drink a cup of tea. Then, I get up, stare out of the window, walk around the house, and make another cup of tea - then hit the books again. I feel that I have been making the progress that I hoped for, but I will only truly know once the first exams have been taken.

Everyone is different. I know people that went on full time courses and spent 8 hours a day in the class room for 3 months, and still didn't really understand half of it. And, these people are not stupid in any way, but some people just have an ability to relate to the subjects, and therefore retain the information, and more importantly be able to apply it.

Personally, Climatology is my Nemesis. I'm fully prepared to have to sit that one more than once, but if that's the case so be it - it won't be the end of the world. Hopefully though the brush up course will help me get a better angle on it.

Good luck to all.....

Nish.

[Rote 8]

Macky

I am only on frame 2. Like I said I am new to all this. That is really the reason why I posed the question. I finished the first frame fairly quickly, after 15 hours and thought I did OK. The second frame seems to be a bit tougher going.

I cant help wondering to myself if it all gets progressivley more difficult or wether the frames are generally balanced.

One thing is for sure. I have no idea how I will be able to remember the stuff that I did last week in 8 months time (or however long it takes).

[GonvilleBromhead]

Another one with Bristol DL, currently only on frame 3, did the first two and tests a week a piece, studying about 3-4 hours a night midweek, try to keep my weekends free (ish) of study, but I appreciate the further I get into it, the more I will have to refresh ground already covered i.e. weekends.

Not found it too bad so far (expecting it to get more involved as time goes by), how did everyone else find it as you progress up the frames ?

cheers,

GB.

[Nishko]

GonvilleBromhead,

Like I said, wait until you get to Climatology! Or the subtlties of north aligned stable platforms in an INS systems, or plotting.... to name but a few!

Have fun!

[Rob 747]

Would you guys say D/L or F/Time?

Have you all got massive motivation or a natural flair to study???

I dont think i am naturally academic, so do you thjink i would be better off with F/Time course??

PS...How hard are they really???? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

[GonvilleBromhead]

Nish,

Yeah, I know it won't be long before I get clobbered with subject matter that requires reading, reading, and reading again before it half starts to make sense, and as I say, early days at the moment with only the first few frames done.

I've heard Climatology (amongst others) can be a bit of a sod, so I expect to be increasing my hours as time goes on. Worth it in the end though eh ?!

all the best, GB.

[Steve McNair]

Rote 8
Gronville Bromhead

The thing I've found with the course is that it doesn't, as yet seem to get more difficult as you go on, the standard is pretty much level (although i'm not much further down the road than either of you) however you will have your favourite subjects which will come to you easier than others (Met i'm finding quite easy, but the gyroscope chapters took me 4 days of head scratching.

As for remembering what we did in the early frames, I have spent time going over the previous frames and have found that I learn't more than I thought. This however takes time. I now believe that if I'm getting through the frames I'll revise them all in the two weeks before I go to Bristol. If you have understood the material first time around and got good marks it's only a matter of remembering it for the exams and not the difficult part of understanding the subjects.

Regards

[rockaria]

8 hours a day in the classroom, 3 hours a night (apart from fridays!) and 5 hours sat and sun and i am approaching the exam dates too fast! :(

beware there is tonnes and tonnes to learn and you will find that you need to use as much time as you can to learn it and do practice questions.

Saying that it all depends on how you are doing it, ie one subject at a time or over a long time period.

Good Luck though

Rocky

[Nishko]

Basically, don't get too stressed if something seems to make absolutely no sense to begin with, you'll be surprised later on when it suddenly makes sense like a bolt out of the blue. Some of this stuff takes time to sink in properly, and I really believe that the earlier stuff makes more sense once you've had more exposure to the later stuff; plus you'll be more used to learning things by then.

You don't need to be particularly academic, just determined and disciplined - but don't think that a full time course as opposed to DL will compensate for a lack of determination - because it won't, you'll need to just keep whacking away until it hurts, pardon the expression but that's what it's like.

N

[captainmacuk]

hi guys,

Just a question to see what you all think about the aviation industry at the moment, how long do you see it being before the industry picks up, airlines start recruiting, sponsorships opening, airline orders for aircraft start to happen?

I guess its just up to the general public to get into aircraft again and stop shi**ng themselves(my answer)

See ya later

[redsnail]

This is my opinion only. It is based on previous downturns and what the guys at BALPA were saying.

Low cost airlines are still recruiting. However, only type rated need apply. (+ have relevant experience)
Spring 2002. Some recruiting for some companies. Will start to absorb those guys not already snapped up by the low costers. Prob min 1500 hours and airline/turbine experience.
Late 2002. May see low houred guys get recruited.
2003. Low houred guys selected.
May think about cadetships/sponsorships from then on.
It really depends on how the travelling public feel about aviation and can they afford that holiday at the moment.

Keep your ear to the ground. Read PPRuNe, read Flight International. Take any flying/aviation job you can get. (Don't prostitute yourself though)
Aviation is cyclical. This sort of thing happens every 10 years or so.

[ 03 December 2001: Message edited by: redsnail ]

[JT8]

Well, I've put off my training until Summer 2002, meaning I would finish around September 2003. My opinion is that by then things for us low hour peeps should be better. :cool:. Personally, I'm not going to sit around and wait for sponsorships - who knows when they're going to start up again and whether you'll be successful.

JT8

[theodor]

Have good friends at BA management, and they predict it will be getting better as soon as summer 2002, so no need to hold back on our training.

[KillKenny]

I'm looking to study for 8 weeks, do the fortnight brush-up course, then sit the exams.

Can anyone who's already done Mod. 1 tell me how long it took them and if they think this is realisic?

[Matthewjharvey]

If you are studying full time and are a reasonable learner then this is a realistic timetable, when I did module 1 (half with PPSC until it went bust and brush up with Bristol) it took me about 4-6 weeks.

[KillKenny]

Thanks Greaser.

Could you define 'Full Time' for me? Do you mean say, 8 hours a day 5 days a week, or more like 10 hours a day 6.75 days a week?

Sorry for being so pendatic but I'm on the verge of booking exams, and just want to check what's feasible.

[Matthewjharvey]

Kilkenny, I would say I worked 7 days a week about 6 hours a day on average. I would say that I think I probably have above average concentration levels and a great deal of motivation, but it can be done in this length of time.

[KillKenny]

Thanks - useful gen - I'm going to give it a go - I was anyway, but just wanted a little confidence builder by casting for opinions.

[Megaton]

Greaser's advice is sound; however, he did have considerable experience prior to starting the JAR nonsense. Check his profile and you'll see that he was already a CFII blah blah blah.

Greaser: how's the IR coming along?

[Matthewjharvey]

HP . .Should finish IR next week as long as CAA don't make me finish off the the approved 50 hour course, otherwise it will be a couple of weeks.. .Did you get my email??

[Megaton]

Not yet. I'll check when I get home.

[mark twain]

As a person slightly challenged in terms of concentration and brain power I have found that with ongoing family commitments you can do one section of the module a week. The full module is split into 14 parts, therefore around 14 weeks.

If you get stuck on a subject this can slow you down - on other areas you find you catch up. I try and do around 4 hours a day 5 days a week with some extra time at weekends and evenings.

Whilst this is not full time, the material can be taxing on your concentration levels and the volume of information to plow through is high - a fair chunk of time is spent writing up study notes for ongoing revision/pre-exam review.

So after a long winded reply my answer would be that 6-8 weeks is tight even with total full time commitment, I would suggest that you allow nearer the 8 weeks, possibly a couple more as 'reserves'.

Best of luck.

[KillKenny]

Thanks for your inputs guys.

I'm part way through Frame 3 - with evenly spaced breaks through the day I find 8 hours a day isn't out of the question.

How are/did you finding the CD-ROM? - I find it does tend to reduce the amount of rewriting needed, although it would be much better if it was cut & paste -able

[ 29 January 2002: Message edited by: KillKenny ]</p>

[ILS27R]

Kenny,

Why put a time limit on your study? Surely it should be completed when its completed! Why put even more pressure on yourself than is required! . .It would be better to spend 16 weeks on module 1 and gain high pass marks than having to resit one or two exams costing more money and placing even more pressure on you- unless you have a start date for a job that needs to be meet! This is only a suggestion <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[Rote 8]

Guys

Dont know wether to laugh or cry when I read your postings on this thread. I am on Frame 13 of Module 1 - The penultimate frame and began studying in JULY last year.

I work a full time job as a Software Engineer and have so far dedicated 410.75 hours to the cause.

The idea of doing it all full time in 8 weeks must be fantastic, good luck to you.

[monkeyboy]

CabinDoors, don't get too down hearted. Don't forget these guys are talking about fulltime studying, ie no day time job.. .I'm about to start distance learning myself -whilst keeping my job - so I'm expecting a very, very hard time ahead of me. Incidently, how many hours are you getting in a day?

Regards

MB <img src="smile.gif" border="0">

[avrodamo]

CabinDoors. Thank God. I thought i was just really slow !!Started my Mod 1 in May, and im just revising now for Brush up course on March 25 and exam on April 8-11. I work fulltime too, plus family. Not long now and the pain will all be over....until Mod 2 anyway !!

[nunos]

hi all. .i'm also in a f/t job,shifts,2 kids and wonderful wife,oh did i mention mortgage,2 car loans,2 credit cards and a full sky tv package etc.I started june last year with bgs,finding it tough going but i'm getting there.motivation no problems i'm just so envyious of the fulltime gs students,i feel it would be alot easier with a teacher shouting at you.i had to rearrange the work programme into subjects rather than frames because i found by the time i went back to the subject in say 4 frames time, i forgot some key facts and had to read it all again.. .it's once around the goldfish bowl and i forget,i'm not booking anything,untill i'm ready!. .GOODLUCK U ALL!

[going round]

Cabindoors, Avrodamo & nunos you guys(gals?) are my new hero's. I've just picked up this thread and by the time I got past the first half dozen postings I was ready kick the PC screen in, what with all the talk of 6 weeks study, half an hours revision and first time passes all round.

I started module 1 at the end of September and I am just finishing frame 10 out of 14. That is with an initial burst of enthusiasm followed by a more regular pattern of study which probably averages 10 - 12hrs of worthwhile study a week. Good luck to those who can do the 8 hrs a day but I'm 38, have all the usuall work / home pressures and to be honest, an attention span of about an hour before I have to get up and have a break.

I have found that for me it is necessary to spend time getting an understanding of the concepts and exploring the reason why certain facts are as they are, before moving on to the next frame. I carried on this way up until about frame 6 then, as each new frame came up I spent time going over what I had already learnt on the subject. This obviously slowed me down and if you do this, be prepared to be depressed as you will find you have forgotten a lot.

You will however recognise the facts and having re read them will experience the 'thats it, I remember now' feeling along with the '******, why didnt I know that?' feeling.

There then comes a point where you feel the need to study each section to the standard required to pass the exam. Resist this and move on so that you feel as though you are making progress through the syllabus. You should really be looking to consolidate your knowledge of the facts and figures in your revision period before going on the brush up course. (for me, I'll need about a month for this) The 2 week residential course can then be used to polish up on the way the questions are presented and becoming slick with the whizz wheel etc etc.

So, just to say to those of you who are resolutely plodding on while the wippersnappers pass you by, remember that you are not the only one finding it hard. There are probably more of us than them!

Well, thats what I think any way. If you think different....good for you, it takes all sorts.

Bye now.

[pil]

Pprune brethren

Please excuse me for raising the crass subject of money, but I need guidance. I am embarking in the next few months on a year long quest to finally grab that CPL/IR ME jobbie. The first part will be taken up with ATPL ground school and assuming 8 months for this; I’ve done my sums, saved my money and provided I can survive on tinned beans and lard fritters, I feel I can fund my way through this course.
However, at the end of this, things become a tad more expensive when the commercial flight training begins. Looking on websites gives you the costs for the bare minimum hours to complete the course. As we all know, this is very rarely the case, especially when dealing with more complex and demanding manoeuvres that require mastering.
So my query to the forum is such, how many hours tuition did it take from start to finish of the following ratings/licences. CPL, IR(ME) and FI.
This isn’t a contest to see who got their license the quickest, it just I would like to get a feel for the average number of hours it takes. Then, I know how much extra money I need to ask the nice lady behind the counter of Lloyds while wearing a stocking on my head. :p

Ta muchly

[sally at pprune]

The search has not helped me much with this one.

How many hours does it really take to get through a distance learning ATPL course? I realise that everyone works at their own speed, etc. I’ll be doing Bristol’s course, aiming to work 4 hours per day/5 days per week. That looks like 30 weeks + the 4 weeks at Bristol + 2 weeks exams + any time off I give myself for good behaviour.

I am used to intensive academic work. Is my plan realistic? What was your experience?

Thanks for your time.

:)

[take_me_on_high]

How long is a piece of string.....

I studied at LGU and all of the people on my course started in Sept. Last year. The first people to finish were in the June Exams. 3 people finished out of a class of 30. next on the list is about another 5-7 people due to finish in August exams. The rest of the class? Well I have no idea but they seem to have fallen of the face of the earth. We have all studied very hard and don't think that the minimum hours is going to be enough. When you say you are used to hard academic work, this course is considered more intense than most degrees because it is in a short timeframe. Forget going out much because you will need to study at home.
I feel like I am constantly revising! When will it end!
Good luck, and remember to work hard

JD

[Father Mulcahy]

Sally,

30 weeks (7 months) of almost full time study is probably realistic. However, please do not underestimate the task ahead. I had read time and time again people saying "Oh it's really hard", "Never studied so hard for anything" and thought, yeah yeah - it cannot be that bad.

Boy did I get a suprise.

The actual level the material is pitched at, is generally, not bad. It is the sheer volume. You would not believe the amount of stuff you have to learn.

I found doing my degree way easier than doing the ATPLs, no joke. The only difference is I am way more motivated to study for the ATPLs - and that is the big factor in y(our) favour.

Best advice, do the first module, see how you get on and be ready to juggle your plans. Don't bank on getting all 14 papers first go, keep some spare time up your sleeve.

Work hard and I'm sure you'll succeed. Best of Luck,

Father Mulcahy

[FlyingForFun]

Hi sally!

How strange - I've just posted on another thread, wondering if you and Spitfire had thought about distance learning! Obviously you have...

I'm about 1/2 way through the distance learning at Bristol - first set of exams in August, and only a couple more progress tests to do before then. I started at the beginning of March, so by the time I've done the exams in August it will have taken me a little over 5 months for 1/2 the course. Then, I figure a short break before starting the next half of the course, and I should complete the entire course in 12 months.

As for how many hours I've spent, it's difficult to say. Generally, I work at weekends - ideally I'll do around 12-14 hours work spread between Saturday and Sunday. I also do a few hours work during the week, after I get back from the office. But some subjects have been particularly tricky, and I've taken my notes everywhere with me - I've studied in my lunchbreak, on the train, and even at work when I've had a few spare minutes! Then there have been weeks when I've had other plans at the weekend that have meant I've only been able to study one day instead of two, or sometimes not at all. So I can't really give you an exact number of hours - sorry.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

FFF
-------------

[GonvilleBromhead]

Sal,

BGS mod 1 took me about 8 months (slowed right down for a bit after Sep 11 plus don't tend to do weekends), but work about 3 to 4 hours every week night, with the odd Friday taken over by Monsieur Stella.

Should be taking mod 2 exams in September so if all goes well, just over a year with working a full time job and doing the study pretty much full on most evenings.

It really is a case of putting your life on hold for a wee while and really making it the norm to come home from work, eat, then study.

I think Bristol state on average it can take as little as 6 months to complete (flogging it pretty much full time), to on average a year.

Your plan sounds ok, I would just echo some of the guys other comments, be prepared for it to go a bit longer than that, 7 months doesn't really leave you any slack, and there will be times when you don't get through as much as you initially schedule.

Good luck with it, enjoy ! ;)

[Kapooley]

Sally,

Really its a case of taking as long as you need. Theres no rush at the moment as nobodies hiring!! Its far better I think to spend say 9 months on phase 1, making sure you pass all 7 or 8 exams. Rather than rushing, taking the exams after only 3 months and failing 3 or 4 exams.

Some guys I know have taken all the exams within a space of 6 months but have failed a few in the process. I'm sure everyone will agree its alot more stressful and time consuming to be on that third or forth sitting or even worse, needing to take all 14 exams again if you go over the maximum number of resits!!:rolleyes:

[gorky]

i think it depends of your previous qualifications.have you flown a turbojet , turboprop.Do you fly IFR?.there is a lot, but if you are a pilot with thousand hours, everything in the theory will be more exciting to learn.
Do you have a technic background, how do u master trigonometry, equation???do you anderstand physic...
I think there is no hurry to finish this JAR theory, 1 year should be allright.

[foghorn]

Took me one year of fairly intensive study, part-time around a hectic job and family life. Did about 20 hours per week study, plus read relevant textbooks at other times.

[VFE]

I am going to be finishing off my ATPLs distance learning after making a start on an integrated course. Plan to study as I did before - full time 6 - 7 days per week. Parents are being really cool by allowing me to stay at theirs rent-free whilst I do this.

ATPLs are a bloody big ordeal. What has been said above is totally true. Quantity not quality in the sense that you have to know how everything works but not in too greater detail. Minimum hours stipulated are exactly that - minimum. Plan for more.

Good luck all those tackling ATPLs. I'm off to Florida for a coupla months then I am back into it! Argh!! Where did I put my noose....

VFE.

[Kapooley]

VFE,

Howcome your coming back to do them by distance learning. I thought you would do any resits in Jerez along with the other chaps??

[VFE]

I have left Jerez and am going to get my hours up to 150 in Florida, return and complete the ATPLs with Bristol. Wasn't working out at BAe.

[caramel]

Take me on a high

i started that course in sept last year too!

i decided to go distance learning which turned out to be a nightmare

10 months down the line i still look at my books, not as much as i should i know but i will prob get it done in the near future.

how did you get on?

email me

[email protected]

[sally at pprune]

:)

It's really great to get all these responses. Seems like you've got to be pretty self driven without too many distractions to get through this stuff!

My Dad did his Masters degree by distance learning. He said the only thing that got him through it was the occassional contact with other people in the same boat. Tutors were great when it came to getting him over difficulty with the material, but other students helped when it came to motivation.

Do any of the distance learing schools help put you in touch with other students?

Could PPRuNe fulfil this role (WWW & Scroggs?). It would be pretty boring for anyone else - not the sort of thing to post on this forum. Maybe there's sufficient interest to take up some of Danny's valuable server space?

Post here if you think it's a good idea :D

Thanks again guys

[VFE]

Sounds a good idea Sally. I was talking to someone at the Gatbash (sorry - name escapes me!) who is distance learning with OATS and he said they don't put you in touch with other students.

VFE.

[Kapooley]

VFE,

Sorry to hear about Jerez. Good luck with Bristol!!!

[mlme0891]

I am about to embark on my flight instructor course,i have a JAR cpl (a) 250 hrs.and will be renewing my multi i.r. in the near future.I am curious to know how long it took pilots who are now flyin for airlines be it on turbo props or jets,pax or cargo to get from my stage to that elusive first job,flying for an airline.I realise the industry is poor at the moment,but it seems to be showing signs of recovery and i am just interested to hear from people that made it and how they did it.Is there any tips that they could offer now looking back on things they did to get to where they are now

[Luke SkyToddler]

6 years and counting ... :rolleyes:

[Bluebaron]

4 years 7 months and counting.....

[Wheelon-Wheeloff.]

After getting my instructor rating, taught for 9 months then got RHS for turbo-prop company. This was 2 years ago though.

[FlyingForFun]

As so often happens, I am getting different stories from different people regarding the length of time that a CPL should take. I have my own ideas, but I'd like some confirmation. This is particularly important, since I will need to make sure I book an appropriate amount of time off work.

So, for those of you who did your CPL in Florida, South Africa or anywhere else where the weather is reasonably reliable:
How many days did your CPL take?
How many hours did your CPL take?
Was it a single- or multi-engine CPL?
What school were you at?
Did this meet your expectations?


For those of you who did your CPL in the UK, could you please alter the first question to take any weather problems into account? (E.g. "It took me 5 weeks, but because of weather problems I was only able to fly for 16 days in that period")

All replies greatly appreciated - your answers could well have an impact on how I do my CPL. If you'd rather keep these personal details private, then I don't mind a PM or e-mail.

Thanks!

FFF
----------------

[witchdoctor]

CPL took 75 days from scratch (including time off), 97 hours all single engine. School was OAT at their FWB in Arizona (as was).

Could have been done quicker, but combination of bungling by OAT and US partner, and some knock on from 9/11 delayed it by about 3-4 weeks I reckon. Other than that, yep, pretty happy.

[Tinstaafl]

How far towards the CPL are you already? Do you only need to do whatever the minimum CPL training component is or do you need to build time too?

BTW, what is the min. JAR CPL trg. course to bridge from PPL to CPL, presuming no min. experience limitations?

[Doudou]

Could you be more precise in your question?
Do you want to know from 0 to CPL, the CPL training, do you include the time building, do you want to include the theory? Do you include IFR in...

[Swinging the Lead]

FFF,

I am sure you are refering to the JAR modular CPL.

I managed to complete my course in Florida in about 18 days. This included about 3 non flying days and completing a MEP class rating at the same time. You can easily fly two 1- 1.5 hour sorties a day without being too worn out. So it would be possible to complete within a fortnight, I'd allow a little longer as a fudge factor - in case aircraft go tech or the weather has the odd day or you have a hangover!;)

People have completed in the UK within 9 days but then others who have taken over 3 months - but then you know how unpredictable the UK weather is!

EFT were a good bunch and I have happily recommended them to friends, if you want to know more get in touch!

Good luck

[FlyingForFun]

Doudou/Tinstaafl,

Swinging is completely correct - I am after the time for the JAR modular CPL course, given that I have a PPL/Night, and assuming that all the pre-course requirements have already been met. (The minimums are 25 hours for single-engine, and 28 hours for multi-engine.)

Thanks for the replies - and also for the replies I've had by PM. So far, they are agreeing with what I had expected. Please keep them coming though.

Witchdoctor - 97 hours? :eek:

FFF
------------

[Easy226]

I am still training towards my PPL at the moment, but i was wondering if there are any written exams to go with your CPL if you are doing the ATPL ground exams??

[18greens]

It took me a year, and that was the old 15 hour one and it took 15 hours. I did it at weekends and what with weather, waterlogged airfield (Redhill) etc etc and seven cancelled tests due to weather it took about a year start to finish. I planned to do it in 4 weekends but it didn't quite work out that way.

But I did it, I'm glad I did it, and no need to take time off.

Everyone advised against doing it part time but it can be done.

[witchdoctor]

FFF

Yup. All part of an integrated ATPL though, so I have no say over the syllabus prior to the CPL skill test. Shame it was all in the middle of a crappy desert though - dull as ****.

[mad_jock]

7 Days

15 hour mod CPL

Multi

Leeds flying School

Great 1 week of VFR flying wx in about 3 months Jan- March Viz was constantly under 10k. After completing the IR it was abit of a anti climax Hardest bit was the nav because the viz was kack and remembering all the pax briefings. From what i have seen the SEP version of the CPL is harder. There is alot less scope for cockups in PFL's and glide approaches etc. After just spending 55hrs doing the IR doing 3 circuits in a twin was much more preferable.

MJ

[Megaton]

27 hrs 30 min incl GFT and 4 hrs 30 night. Flying over 17 days with 3 days off. School EFT at Fort Pierce, Fla. Quite happy. Reliance on one complex single engine aircraft was bit of a factor since it developed oil leak halfway through otherwise fine.

[Howski]

Hello All


Before you started the CPL course how many hours had you flown , what i really want to know is what sort of level should your flying skills be before actually starting the course.

How long did you IR take ??????

Howski :}

[pjdj777]

I did the CAA route, in the UK at Aeros in Glos.

15 hours but the wx was terrible, took five weeks

IR was the old approved upgrade, 80 hours, 10 weeks.

I seem to remember the minimum hours you needed was 100 P1

[FlyingForFun]

Many thanks for all your replies.

Judging from the replies on this thread, and from many of the schools, it doesn't seem at all unreasonable for me to expect to be able to complete the CPL training in 3 weeks, given good weather.

I have to commend the school in Texas (I'm sure you can figure out which, there aren't too many of them) who insisted that I should allow 4 weeks for the CPL, and that although it may be possible to do it in 3, to rely on getting it done in this time wasn't sensible. I don't know why they think it takes longer than any other school I've spoken to - maybe they have less aircraft/instructor availability? - but I would much rather hear it straight from them than have them tell me to come along, we'll get you a CPL in 3 weeks, then find when I get there that I can't fly as many hours each week as I need to - so thank you. A pity, though, because they would have been one of my first choices otherwise.

FFF
-----------

[Megaton]

As someone who has lived in Texas for the last three years and has JAR CPL I feel qualified to comment. Weather in Tx is either hot and overcast or hot and very thundery. Four weeks is probably a good estimate. I have also flown in to Tyler and looked at the school and they do have nice aircraft and an excellent set-up. Onll reason I didn't go there was because they hadn't got JAR certification at that time allthough it was imminent.

[FlyingForFun]

Ham,

Thanks for that. Have to admit I'd imagined the weather to be better than you describe in that part of the world. If that's the reason for the course generally taking 4 weeks, it's entirely valid. And I stand by my original comment that it's a pity, because otherwise they'd be at or near the top of my list.

FFF
-------------

[Fancy Navigator]

Hi guys
I was wondering how long it took you to pass all your ATPL exams?
9 months, 10, ....???
It would be interesting to know and it could become a survey as well (if the moderators would like to set up the poll...).
Thank you very much for your replies.
Cheers:O
(sorry in advance if this topic has been done before)

[Aircart]

Hi

Took me 10.5 months to do all the study, exams and 1 re-sit!

Was hoping 6 months but best laid plans always go up in flames!! :}

Cheers

A/C

[long final]

It's not that simple. It all depends on your circumstances. Do you work - have family, kids? - play football on Sundays ???

Try to work out how many quality hours study a week you can do then a time scale might be easier to guess.

LF

[GonvilleBromhead]

13 months
Full time job
Refused to study weekends, like Stella too much.
No family committments
Studied every night (mostly) mid week after work, oh the memories !
Long distance relationship up and down the M1 at weekends, refer to Stella answer, much needed after M1 !
A cat named Gerald.
All first time passes with good average.

Enjoy and good luck.

ps. could've done it a bit quicker but didn't really see the point in going too mad with it, all down to personal choice and circumstances really.

[FlyingForFun]

12 months. Had a full-time job, studied evenings and weekends.

Agree with others that the numbers without any context are totally meaningless.

FFF
--------------

[expedite_climb]

Fully time study - Distance and brush up for tech, and full time course for Nav (CAA exams pre JAR). Flew when weather was nice, studyed when it was crap.

Did all exams in 4 months. From PPL to BCPL and AFI in 6 months.

[parris50]

8 months.
Distance learning
Hours building at the same time
Bloody hard work though!

[Hollytrees6]

Took me 18 months in total. Completed distance learning course whilst holding down a full time job. Married with a child. Don't underestimate the study required. Make sure you attend the one day brush up courses for difficult subjects. My feedback questions virtually mirrored the actual exam questions.

[Mascalzone78]

took me 8 months but I was full time student in a modular course at an FTO. Anyway It was really to much for me as full time student I can only image for a distance learning student. WOW!!

Good luck guys!

[Send Clowns]

6 months, full-time.

As an instructor I have known students (ours and others who have come for private tuition) take from 6 months to over 2 years. Most of the longest have problerms other than the course, such as failure of an FTO, to deal with.

[Rote 8]

I spent around 2 years completing my ATPLs with Bristol Groundschool whilst working full time as a Software Engineer. I studied for around 5 hours a day Mon - Thursday, then usually an additional hour on Fridays. The basic idea was to use my lunch hour each day as study time, although being in the office this can sometimes turn out to be less productive than study at home (for obvious reasons).
During the week I would come home and put in around 4 hours each evening. My record was just over 7 hours of study in one day (that was a day when I was also at work for 7.5 hours).

Friday evenings were dedicated to beer, Saturday was for the girlfriend, Sunday was for flying.

If you want my advice don’t try to emulate me. With hindsight it is clear to me that I put in significantly more work than necessary, filling a bookcase with notes and additional textbooks. It would appear that 8 months to a year is a more typical timescale, which is somewhat depressing when I look back at the effort that I put into it.

Good luck with it all. It is a big mountain when you look up from the foothills.

[Fancy Navigator]

Hi guys
Thanks for your replies, they are very helpful!:ok:
I will probably start in early 2004 and god knows when I finish....
Exciting challenge ahead but undountedly hard work!!!
Cheers:)

[High Wing Drifter]

Rote 8,

I believe that undertaking an ATPL course these days is considerably easier than it was a couple of years ago. The quality of feedback and the understanding of the syllabus now seems to be firmly grasped by the schools. Not sure your experiance compares with the relatively pointed and consise nature of the courses on offer now.

Well it was either that or the the beer and loose women ;)


Fancy Nav,

Good luck!

[parris50]

Yes, I've heard this too. Apparently in the early days of JAR, the exams suffered from poor translation into English and the wrong answers were deemed correct. Even now, they're not perfect and remarking of an entire set of papers happens from time to time. I remember during my brush-up weeks the instructors saying things along the lines of "The correct answer is A but the CAA wants B" At 52 quid a time, they must be making a fortune.

If these were GCSEs there would be a public outcry!

[redsnail]

6 months go to whoa in 2001. A few of my classmates at ATA did the same thing. Checkboard did them in 6 weeks at Bristol Ground School. (He did a few months home study.)

[FougaMagister]

8.5 months from start to finish, full-time groundschool at ATA in EGBE.

Cheers

[pipergirl]

hiya...
just wondering really..
am doing the distance learning course with Bristol at the mo. just wondering how long it took people to do Module 1 and then module 2?

[Field In Sight]

8 mths phase 1
4 mths phase 2 (2 hrs a day / 5 days a week).

Phase 2 was much quicker because I didn't summarise the notes as I studied as in Phase 1.

The reason for this was that after doing the first brushup course I realised that the FTO was much better at distilling the "important" information required for passing each exam.

Another tit bit, try to leave a 3 week gap between finishing the brushup and sitting the exams. 3 weeks was just about ideal to retain all that rubbish.

I can't believe how much time I wasted on IFR & VFR comms whilst studying. The total time to complete both exams was 13 minutes:}

Best of luck with the exams and your sanity.

FIS.

[High Wing Drifter]

Only done Mod 1 so far and that took about 4 months with Bristol. My advice would be to not get too bogged down with it. Do enough to get 85(ish)% in the progress tests. The brush up course will hammer the rest into you properly. Momentum is the key! Non of it is difficult, just lots of facts, figures, tables and equations to learn.

During the brush-up course, try and do all the homework set for you - this will mean working every night to 12-1am but I assure you that will need to! You will be remarkably slick after the brush-up so long as you do ALL the homework!!

Contrary to FIS's advice, get the exams in the week following. I would not leave a gap as you need to keep on top of things for the three week brush-up and exam period. Just chill afterwards :)

[FlyingForFun]

How long is a piece of string? It really depends on what other commitments you have, and how much time each week you can dedicate to your studying.

It took me 12 months exactly. That was whilst holding down a full-time job, studying evenings and weekends. It's obviously possible to do it much quicker than that if you're not working, and it can take much longer if you have a family as well as a job.

Good luck!

FFF
-----------

[expedite_climb]

Sure this has been asked before.

6 months full time from PPL to BCPL with ATPL ground exams and FI rating.

[Field In Sight]

The reason for the 3 weeks gap is so that you can get as close to 100% doing the feedback.

Living in Manchester it would have been a 200 mile return journey North or South if I had to resit any exam.

For me, failing an exam by one mark by answering one question wrong that I already had in the feedback would have been too much for me to take :}

Also another tip I can recommend is, just before you go into the exam have a single page of relevent facts that you really struggle to remember and write them down from your refreshed memory the first thing after the exam starts. i.e. stuff like DME frequencies or PFD colours arrrggghhh :{

FIS.

[skyman68]

18 months...and at a relax speed.

ATP with Bristol is a peace of cake. a Joke!!!
pass all exam first attempt. I have not open one of their binders except to do the progress test, if you learn their feedback questions you will pass with a 99%pass.

Noone asks you to know the subject. Just tick the box.The CAA doesnt care if you understand or not aviation(most questions and topics are useless in the real life) .it is why they have chosen multi choice questions.

[High Wing Drifter]

Well I found them hard!

[FlyingForFun]

Please - whatever else you do, ignore Skyman68's advice to not open the folders and just do the feedback.

There are two reasons why I say this. The first is that, as soon as a new question appears, you're screwed... especially if it's very similar to a question you've seen before. The second is that, although most of the syllabus is not relevant to real-life flying, there are a few bits which are. So whether you're looking to be a good pilot, or "just" to pass the exams, it's a bad idea either way.

Feedback is very good for two things: checking you understand the subject well enough to be worth doing the exam, and getting into the "right way of thinking". The only exception to this is Air Law, which you can't learn any way except for doing feedback.

FFF
--------------

[Hufty]

Took me 14 months with Oxford - distance learning. I didn't feel that I was rushed, although I was working 12 hour days at the time so only had a few hours each evening to study - plus weekends. I actually studied in the office at weekends so felt like I never left the place!

I echo FFF's comments though - try to work hard to understand the material - you're going to need to use it one day and you're spending a lot of money for the course so you may as well get as much value out of it as you can.

Hufty.

[SpeedBird 001]

My gleaming module 1 folders arrived this morning. I guess that's my free time tied for the next 8-12 months.

"Darling, cancel the Pattersons. I'm affraid I wont be able to make it!!"

Hope it comes to me as quick as you guys. Been looking at the MET and it made me feel a little queezy:eek:

But the instruments section. Now that's what I'm talking about:cool:

I am at uni full time (if there is such an excuse) and will be putting a few hours a night and weekends in. It parrellells my course so should get through it o.k. Will let you know in due course

Chow for now :ok:

Birdseed:E

[Sungod Ra]

Boeing 737-800 full motion sim flightdeck......


Training Captain:

Right, reduced thrust take-off. You've programmed the FMS, inserted relevent ephemera into PERF INIT, ........correct?


Skyman68:

Have I ****, just pressed a few random buttons in a random order....this feckin thing'll fly itself.


One year later, Boeing 737-800 on finals.......

Passengers:

.......(screaming)........

[High Wing Drifter]

There's hope for me yet :O

[The Greaser]

2 months per module, distance learning full time. Can be done if you have great motivation.

[Little Black Box]

Answer is too long. I am finding www.iwannabeapilot.com is helping.

[fhajebah]

would it be possible to complete a ppl in 2 years and how costy even though i have flown for 2 and a half hours and have been told i have done lessons 3,4 and 6

[parris50]

Simple answer is - yes.

I started mine in July 2001 and finished in October 2001. I've known people ot do it in a month. Remember it's only a 45 hour (minimum) course and it's quite realistic to complete it in that time, wether permitting. Even if you do it at weekends and can get an average of a couple of hours per weekend, it's not going to take all that long.

Allow time for studying for the written exams (bad weather days are good for this) and get them out of the way as soon as you can.

As for costs, it's sensible to think of around £6000. That will cover your lessons plus equipment, test fees etc.

If the 2.5 hours you have done were with an instructor, you can count them towards the 45 hours of the course.

:ok:

[sawotanao]

Hi all,
Just wondered how long its taken people to complete the CPL/IR (fATPL) on the modular route. I started when I was 18........7yrs on & i've just got the IR to do, not debt...yet;)

[FlyingForFun]

Asking how long people take to do a modular fATPL without asking for more details is unlikely to show anything interesting or useful without more information.

Me... I started flying in 2000, but not with any intention of going on to get an fATPL. Got my PPL in July 2001, decided in October 2001 to get the fATPL. (Yes, I know... comments on my timing not required!) Completed exams in Feb 2003, CPL in November 2003, Instructor rating in May 2004. The reason it's taken me so long is because I did it all part-time, holding down a full-time job at the same time, and using my holidays for exams and training. I also paced myself to ensure that I could do my training without getting into debt. Had I not had a full-time job, and had I saved up the cash in advance, it would have taken me far less time to get this far.

Current plans are to do the IR in the first half of 2005, and the MCC in the latter half of 2005. I will need to borrow some money to finance this - the money will come from the equity in my property, either by re-mortgaging or possibly selling, so I will still have no debt other than a mortgage.

FFF
------------

[WX Man]

364 days from the start of my ATPL groundschool to passing my CPL test, which I did after my IR.

That includes getting an FAA CPL/IR and about 2-3 months of getting rat-arsed and partying. Add 2 weeks for an MCC and about 4 weeks for a PPL, which I got a long time ago.

And you can add to that another 5-6 weeks for an instructor's rating, which I intend to start in January because I still don't have a job 2 months after getting my licence issued!!!

WX.

[Pilot16]

sawotanao, 7 years is a very long time. What have been doing during training?

[Spike001]

Just wondering for those of you who did Distance Learning ATPL groundschool, how long did you take to complete the course?

Cheers :ok:

[Malc]

9 months & 1 day, including 2 x 2 weeks crammer sessions.

[lamma]

Took me a year and a half from begining to end. The main reason having a full time job as well which involves a lot of travel.

Just keep your head down and plug on.

Good luck

[YYZ]

14 months with a three month gap, including a few re-sits whilst doing a full time job.:(

[High Wing Drifter]

300hrs + 4 weeks full time crammer courses.

[GodisMyCopilot]

Hello All

Could any of you guys that have done the course give me any rough time lines for completing the ATPL's distance learning whilst doing a 9-5 mon-fri job.

How many hours a day were you putting in? and did you find it feasible.

Cheers

[plumponpies]

12 months split into 2 lots of 7 subjects. 2 hours per night mon-fri.
4 hours each sat and sun.
Lots of day dreaming, frustration, boredom. etc.
You can do it at your pace, it takes what it takes.
Good luck.

[G SXTY]

Took me around 13 months, reading notes while commuting to work and doing 2-3 hours studying Monday to Thursday evenings, and all day Sunday. I treated myself to Friday nights and Saturdays off.

I did them with BGS, so 8 subjects in module 1 and 6 in mod 2, with a total of 6 weeks off work for the brush-up courses and exams.

With commuting, I do a 12-hour day, and my work is quite intense, so if I can manage to study ATPLs at the same time, anyone can. The big advantage is being able to study at your own pace, the disadvantages (apart from the length of time it takes) are that sometimes – after a long day at work - it can be very difficult to motivate yourself, and working alone means you don’t have many shoulders to cry on. You wouldn’t have these problems in a full-time classroom environment.

[stick&rudder]

Hi all,
I'm looking to get my ATPLs out of the way in the summer following graduation (aero engineering). I'm going to study a distance learning course (probably BGS) and I'd be interested to see how long its taken people to study full time. Looking at the course notes, given that cramming is something i'm very current at, and that I could avoid having a job for a short period of time, I'd like to think I could complete them in around 3 months- has anyone done this? I feel a challenge coming on!
cheers
stick

[0-8]

Completing the ATPL theory exams in 3 months of actual study time is quite possible but it's certainly hard work. However don't confuse actual study time with total time taken.

For example:
I spent about 11-12 weeks studying the books at home. However the total time from start to finish was 5 months.

Why? Firstly you have to take in to account the actual time to sit the exams, that's one week per module. Then factor in the two brush-up courses at Bristol. Add them both together and that's 6 weeks. This assumes you get the dates that you want for the brush-ups. Bristol is a busy place and many people book months in advance. I couldn't get one of the dates I wanted which added 2 more weeks to the process. And just like that my 3 months became 5 months.

It could be done in 3 months total time but you would need a lot of ability, determination, luck and forward planning.

P.S
I would recommend Bristol Ground School without hesitation - the best in the business by far.

[vectis lady]

I've just decided to take the plunge and start my ATPL'S but i'm not sure how much study time is needed, i'm working full time and also studying for a degree with the OU - will i have enough time to study everything or should i put one or the other on hold and concentrate on one thing at a time? Any help/advice will be appreciated :-)

[pugwash5]

I wouldn't even consider doing a full time job, the ou and the ATPLs at the same time, I did a full time course at the Guildhall with, I guess, a typical bunch of aspirants and anyone who didn't have 99% attendance didn't even get a partial. I'm sure you could study in your spare time but I preferred the security of the full time course, and the ability to ask questions all the time. Even with the full time course I've never studied so hard in my life and I am also a ships Captain so used to that sort of thing.
Good Luck.

[chrisbl]

It is just a matter of organisation. I have very full time job (sometimes it seems like 2 jobs). I have completed the first phase of the ATPL with an average pass of 91%. I spent about 5 months on the phase.

To be honest, its not too difficult - just that there is a lot of ground to cover much of it superficial and banal.

At the age of 52 as well and it being 30 years since I last did any formal study, I coped OK.

[Northern Highflyer]

I held down a full time job while studying for my ATPL's, and did them all in 12 months. I doubt I could have done a degree at the same time though, in fact I know I couldn't. I completed a HND with the option of a further year's study to gain a degree. The extra "degree" year would have been at the same time as I wanted to do my ATPL studies, so I opted for the ATPL's.

[Grass strip basher]

As I have posted before I'm working full time in the city doing 60-70 hours weeks and have 10 down all passed first time with high average... just the 4 to go... will have taken 12 months in total. It is possible you just have to be prepared to give up a bit of spare time... go for it and good luck

[vectis lady]

can u guys who have done this already clear something up for me? if i pay my money and get all the books sent to me how long have i got b4 i need to start taking any exams? can i leave it as long as i need to or is the course structured to take a certain amount of time? also can i take the exams one at a time or does it need to be block 1 then block 2,

i was thinking about getting all the books and making a slow start while i finish of my ou course then hitting the books properly in abt sep,

(am thinking abt either oxford or bristol)

cheers

[MIKECR]

You can sit your first exam/s whenever you feel ready to, its entirely up to you. Once you take your first sitting then the clock starts ticking(18 months from then to finish the remaining exams. You are allowed a total of six sittings therefore you cannot do one exam at a time. Most people try and do them over two or three sittings, leaving spare sittings for any resits. I did mine over 3 sittings(4 subjects, 4 subjects and then the remaining 6.)

[AlexL]

Vectis Lady - its all about your own abilitys and your own personal organisation. Don't take anyones advice too seriously - as only you know your own abilities.
You can take as long as you want till the first exam, but the clock starts ticking from the first sitting.
FWIW, I did mine at london met distance learning, had a baby (well my wife did), a full time job and finished off a Research thesis for my Masters degree all at the same time - alot of work, but it all comes down to motivation and organisation.
The whole course took me about 9 months from April '05 till jan '06 and I got a 98% average. However I put alot of work in and put the rest of my life on hold (apart from the baby thing :ok: ).
I'm now flying 757's for a living (aged 36 - me, not the 'planes!) so it is all worth the effort.

[Finals19]

I am currently studying module one of Bristol Ground School (excellent material) I would say on average per week I am doing between 20-25hrs study and one frame per week (there are 14 frames, so that would put module one at 3.5 months roughly) Of course everyone has different abilities and speed of learning, so its a very subjective thing.

You will have days where it becomes tedious and dry and you end up doing not that much over a period of time (lots of messing around on the net etc - its amazing what you can find to do if you are trying to avoid studying!!)

I would say if you are disciplined and can spare 15hrs a week, a ball park figure of 9-10 months is not unrealistic.