Do BA Cabin Crew pull their weight?

[Sean Dell]

Having read Jeremy Clarkson's latest words in the Sunday Times - about now being a Virgin convert - having flown BA all his life - are you the Cabin Crew happy with the job you do? Do you try and make the difference every day (despite cost cuts everywhere), do you work as hard as you can, take pride in your job and ensure those around you do the same. Or is it just a bit of a stop gap job, a chance to travel the world and try and drain the company wherever you can of cash whilst shirking away from hard work - whilst hiding behind a strong, but essentially workshy Union. Discuss.

[Eddy]

To a large extent, I agree with your post.

There are a number (fortunately only a small number) of people in this company who are never happy with their lot. We are the best paid crew in the United Kingdom but a minority continue to want more.

Our Union are, in my opinion, often quite militant and fight hard for the wrong things. They are a fantastic Union to be a part of and we have some excellent people acting as reps but often, I feel they fight the company for the sake of fighting.

As for the job and working hard, I like to think I pull my weight. Very much so. I quite enjoy doing juicerounds but sadly, with the constant stream of people in to the galleys onboard, doing these at regular intervals is seldom possible.

If working in Club or First where passengers loitering in the galley is less of a problem, I pass through the cabin atleast every twenty minutes and never without a tray of juices or snacks in hand.

The problem these days is that passengers will often not let the crew get on with their job. I love the interaction with the passengers but they don't realise that by standing in the galley for twenty minutes with perhaps just two crew on duty down there during breaks, they are depriving the rest of the passengers of a quality service as the galley can't be left unattended while a passenger is there.

I pull the curtains across and maintain vigilance but it's amazing how often I've returned to the galley to find people with their hands in the bar trolleys saying "I just thought I would help myself so I didn't have to bother you".

I adore my job. There are one or two aspects that annoy me - like rude and selfish passengers, passengers who see fit to sit next to me in the galley after I have just returned from rest at 3:30am in the morning and choose to speak about his/her travelling habits. These things though are just a small part of the job and I can usually deal with them.

This is a great job, British Airways is a fantastic company and should Clarkson choose not to travel with us again, I say that it's his loss.

[flybywire]

I think this is a totally unfair post. As if Pprune needed any more topics like this.

99.9% of my colleagues - including myself - do make a difference everyday on board. That's the reason why I so much wanted to be part of this airline.

Jeremy Clarkson loves playing the bad boy and had better stick to his cars.

[Eddy]

Flybywire, bravo. The majority of people working with the company do go to work every day and make a difference. From the smallest of gestures like giving someone a few cans of Coke to take off with them because they've missed their connecting flight, to shuffling twenty seats about so a couple can sit together. We make a difference in so, so many ways.

I do see where Sean is coming from though. You and I both know that there are an absolute minority in this company who come to work solely for the money and sadly for them, this isn't the kind of job where that kind of attitude is appropriate.

British Airways have some of the finest crew in the world. We are perhaps among the best trained, most experienced and most professional flyers out there and 99.999% of the time, it shows.

[Kremmen]

In my capacity as SLF and having experienced both V and BA in cattle class I can say BA is streets ahead. The difference, in my experience, is that one feels, on the whole staff on BA ARE there to serve and with a smile, a sense of humour and some grace (on V it wasn't!)

However, there are, as has been said, always a few bad apples and sometimes crews. The last two LHR-PHX flights were terrible and I vowed never to travel BA on those routes again.

BA Club is very good whatever Clarkson says.

- Kremmen

[flybywire]

You and I both know that there are an absolute minority in this company who come to work solely for the money and sadly for them, this isn't the kind of job where that kind of attitude is appropriate.

So true. But I am sure VS have the same and so any other company/organisation in the world!!!!!

It's not the minority that makes a company, but the majority. And I have to say that despite I hate being treated like a slave by some attention-seeking passengers, I feel proud when I think of BA's motto "To fly to serve". It still exists, and most of the senior cabin crew members remind us of it every day.


Ah, and before I forget: Business Travellers award "Best Cabin staff" SIA was first, and BA second. CX was third.
BA won almost everything else. We do work really hard, and it's nice for it to be recognised by our passengers.

I have so many things that passengers gave me as a thank you that I do not really need official awards to feel proud of my job, but it still feels good when it happens.

FBW:)

[LHR_777]

Funny thing is, Mr Clarkson was more than happy to fly with us on BA109 3 nights ago to DXB....in J class, with his sound man in M! (We bumped him up to W...)

Remember, JC loves his 'controversial' journalism....!

[apaddyinuk]

Well iv worked with the company for the bones of 2 years with 7 years in the industry with a few other airlines....and I can say without doubt that BA crew work their ar&£%s off!!!!

[Sean Dell]

It's just a shame then that a few of your collegues let the airline down so badly... mind you you could point the fingers at the baggage handlers and drivers etc.

It could be a great company, but sadly their is no pride in some areas!

[keeperboy]

Of course BA have some crew that don't pull their weight.

Just do the sums: a small percentage of 13,000+ cabin crew....................

[sukigirl]

Your right flybywire VS does have the same problem, but i think BA has it on a larger scale because you have 4 or more times more cabin crew.
And as for jeremy clarkson! well i dont think you have lost much there, i read his article and what a pompous, sexist homophobe. I knew there was a reason i switched channels every time he appeared on top gear.:yuk:

[OZcabincrew]

i had some pax travelling from SIN to Australia who said that they had previously flown BA a couple of times and just said "well, BA are BA, awfull every time, nothing new". I have never flown BA so i can't comment on it, but these are just comments passed on from what a passenger had to say. I have travelled SIA before and found them nothing flash.

At the end of the day in companies so big, you are bound to have some bad apples around, that's just the way it is. It's just unfortunate that these bad apples stick in people's memories more than the good apples! People are going to remember bad service more than they remember good service.

Oz

[Flying_Sarah747]

I work as crew as BA, but I travel on them as a passenger about 8 times a year to get back home, and I have to say that our trouble is consistency.

Sometimes the crew are great, but other times they are embarrassingly rude and I just think to myself if only they knew I was crew, or thank god I'm not paying full fare for this!!!

I think our product is very good. Even in traveller the dinner is always nice, club is fantastic, and first just blew my mind, but down the back of our jumbo jets it's incredibly uncomftable, but I guess that's the same with any airline and on a long sector like LHR-SIN for example if the crew are average and you're uncomftable it just makes everything seem even worse!

I think on general though our crew do pull their weight, but we're not all angels I'm afraid.

[Sick Squid]

I'm a moderator, so I can't say whether or not I think Jeremy Clarkson is a c**k.

However, were I not to be a moderator, then I would most certainly think the above.... and then be moderated by a moderator. :(

Moving on...

[kendoll21]

How can you say that paddyinuk? U won't do anything unless the union says its ok. eg if meals are loaded but not taken out of containers, you wont touch them. Don't argue this as i know for a fact ( my partner has told me on numerous occasions) . lazy lazy lazy

[flybywire]

How can you say that paddyinuk? U won't do anything unless the union says its ok. eg if meals are loaded but not taken out of containers, you wont touch them. Don't argue this as i know for a fact ( my partner has told me on numerous occasions) . lazy lazy lazy

What??? That is so not true.
I won't even argue as we have agreed there are some bad apples everywhere. But maybe you could do something, starting from your own partner - tell him/her not to behave like this and if they don't like this attitude in other crew...they could do something about it!!!!

[Carnage Matey!]

It's only untrue at Gatwick.

[sleepinpassenger]

I have had really nice times on some long haul flights, met interesting crew chatted exchanged numbers met up for drinks had bottles of wine passed over. The good experiences have happened in all classes. Weirdly although i have had impersonal service in the back I accept that paticularly if the flight is full and busy.

But right in the front I have had awful service grim charmless battleaxes barely ably to raise a smile. I find no excuse for that if you hate your job change it otherwises you will go the way of the cantankerous scowlers on the big US carriers. At six grand odd for the ticket its really inexcusable to not be charm personified.

On an aside why is the service so much worse on the flights in Euro business from gatwick. No one offering to take jackets unwillingness to put rollons in the front locker which often only seems to contain crew garments.

This really isnt a pure knock at BA i fly them pretty much 75% of the time long haul and about 60% of the time medium haul. And god knows i would take a three hour longer flight to fly them over United AA Continental of Alitalia.

[Lord Henshingly Croft]

I as a Passenger travel to JFK twice a month and have made a small observation which is very noticable.After doing a bit of digging I discovered that the 767 is operated by two lots of cabin crew,BAR & CitiExpress,and from what I can make out CitiExpress is the poorer relative.Now the BAR crew always appear rude and very short and quite unhelpfull where as the CitiExpress crew are always very helpful and curtious.This is so obvious that I have written to BA.Can anybody here with the knowledge shed any light why this is so?

[Carnage Matey!]

How do you know which is which? I would hazard a guess that the BAR crew are not very happy as they've been told they have to move to Heathrow, sign a much lower paying contract with citiexpress or be sacked.

[Anti-ice]

I am BA shorthaul crew.

I do 50-60hrs PER WEEK

The satisfaction rating for cabin crew in the Global Performance surveys handed out onboard, always hovers around 80-85%.

That should answer your question....

[Carnage Matey!]

Its a small point of detail but you don't actually do 50-60 hrs per week of work as about a half of that time is spent sitting in CAT or Compass not doing anything at all.

[flybywire]

No one offering to take jackets unwillingness to put rollons in the front locker which often only seems to contain crew garments.

That is not true. Taking jackets is part of the service and we Do it.

As for wheelie bags, NO, they cannot go in the wardrobe as it is not safe. It can contain small size bags that are not too heavy, but most of our Club passengers come on board with bags that exceed their hand baggage allowance in weight and, since they can't even lift the items themselves, expect to put them in the wardrobe, which was not meant for that use.

We have strict safety rules about that particular thing.

Also, for the quality of Club Service at Gatwick....remember, we always go one crew down compared to Heathrow and our passengers are very esigent.
We work flat on (before I wa sick I did 6 on - 1 off - 5 on) and most of our flights are now on fix turnaround (i.e. crew doesn't get off the plane) which results in longer sectors put together.
We are only human.

FBW

[Hotel Mode]

And also given the legal maximum is 190hrs duty over 4 weeks ie 47.5 per week..... It is slightly suprising.

[flybywire]

And also given the legal maximum is 190hrs duty over 4 weeks ie 47.5 per week..... It is slightly suprising.

You can do overtime. I believe that's a company limit and not CAA limit as when I worked for a charter airline you couldn't do more than 56 hrs per week (mon-sun)
Some contracts require overtime to be paid. Some, like the new BA contracts over here, don't.

I've certainly done over 200 duty hrs in may. And about the same for the rest of the summer. (rosters in my hand).

FBW.

[A and C]

As a pax I find that 99.9% of BA cabin crew are very good but when you get a bad one do they do it in style!!

[Globalwarning]

With the benefit of having flown BA longhaul quite a lot, the attitude and manor of the Cabin Crew has got worse and worse.

On a day longhaul recently they provided a night flight service. A crapy breakfast at 1015 and one drinks service then nothing until 1745 an hour before landing!

Most are very work shy and agressive. Singapore, Etihad, etc ahhhhh

[flybywire]

I keep thinking that this particular thread has no sense.

It's obvious that you get good and bad comments, as people are different and not only cabin crew, passengers as well.
What to me is a crappy service to somebody else could be good, or even the best they've experienced.

People with bad attitudes exist everywhere. It's easier to spot the negative ones than the positive ones, of course.
Many times we solve problems that passengers are unaware of, and successfully do so without you realising it.
The majority of cabin crew daily go the extra mile to make pax feel comfortable on board.

Let's not be so superficial, please....:(

[jettesen]

ohhhh it has plenty of sense m8...................just people like you who work for BA who don't like the truth. get used to it, the will be a lot more worms uncovered soon.............................

[TightSlot]

Charming!!! :uhoh:

[flybywire]

Charming!!!

Indeed. :(

[nivsy]

Having just as a passenger returned from Hong Kong on BA (used them outbound as well) i can only describe the cabin crew as being average to poor. While both flights went ok - and were certainly full it seems like a good sector for the crew in my book. After dinner they hide behind the curtains - serve a few drinks and then hide again. Ofcourse passengers go to the galleys - its the only was to attract attention!! Also crw should remember that on such a flight its not fun 9despite having paid hundreds of pounds) to be stuck in a seat with a 31" from the one in front for such a long time. Also when i reported that my head sets were not working and that it was the connection on the arm rest he still through a pair of new headsets at me saying "try these". Duly did to no avail....but no apology for the faltering IFE...no offer of a new seat...dont think there was one anyhow...and i asked him to log the fault....one of a few incidently on that 747. Best comedy of the night was seeing a girl and guy from the crew dismantling the toilet door and to their credt fixing it again. Lat time i went on such a trip was with Cathay Pacfific...next time will be once again back with Cathay Pacific. In my opinion - no comparison! The CX crew are a delight!


Nivsy

[SLFguy]

I live in London but commute with BA to ABZ weekly....I have absolutely nothing but praise for the CC... you guys are great.

*gis 3 of them scotches plz*

[Hotel Mode]

ref the 190hr limit, that is the CAA scheme limit not BA. Its all in FCO's.

[sleepinpassenger]

I have heard this locker argument on the gatwick flights. And it does just illustrate the point. Its only on the Gatwick flights.
Not on BA LHR to Frankfurt or Stockholm both flights I take a couple of dozen times a year. Ipay £600 for the flight and its a simple fact that on Gatwick flights you have to ask for your jacket to be taken and on Heathrow flights you dont unless the locker is full.

I suspect that the reason is that Gatwick has far more leisure/infrequent flyers the routes are less core business and the combination of lack of push from the top and lack of push from the bottom leaves gatwick suffering.

[traveller5]

While I no longer fly BA longhaul (because I was so fed up) I think it's pointless having a go at BA crews on here as nothing changes or will change. The crew are on board to maximise their rest and the company allows them to give minimal service, especially on those Bangkoks, Singapores etc.

If you want to experience a decent longhaul (especially Australia!) where you get offered drinks/snacks thoroughout your journey then just don't fly BA as the galley curtain closes asap!

And the problem is most travellers put up with no service for hours because they believe it's the norm....Trust me, on other airlines, it's not.

[DarkStar]

BA CC work extremely hard and are without doubt a credit to BA. I think they should be paid more and have more time off to recover from the endless long sectors....e.g JFK/LHR sector time last week was 5.49! The allowances should also be reviewed upwards because the cost of living is increasing throughout the World.

[nivsy]

As a pax i tend to agree with traveller 5. Maybe i just remember the "olden days" when somehow passenger consideration, not omly from BA but other carriers were so much better. I chuckle as i remember an old B. Caledonian ex girlfriend who was cabin staff...and how they all somehow managed to serve hot meals, drinks and a smile on the BAC1.11 services between Gatwick and Glasgow all within 50 minutes. I remember her myself still running down the cabin about 5 miles out from touch down with empty food trays and smiling at the regular pax! As for the layovers - I think they do ok. Always seem happy enough in the hotels i have stayed in regularly frequented by cabin crew!


Nivsy

[Maxbert]

Flying_Sarah747:

I work as crew as BA, but I travel on them as a passenger about 8 times a year to get back home, and I have to say that our trouble is consistency.

...Missed the rest of the quote, but I wonder if there are any rules/forms/comments that you, as CC flying as PAX can put forward to your airline (blind testing, as it were)?

Without "grassing" on your colleagues, is there any feedback system whereby the CC professionals (i.e. you) can "rate" your colleagues, and suggest improvements?

I'm not comparing airline CC, but as I work in the weird and wonderful realm of customer service, it seems that there is a great opportunity here to provide feedback...?

Maxbert

[Rollingthunder]

At one time our airline developed an assessment form (two 8 1/2 X 14 sheets) to be used by management when travelling on business. I didn't do them.

[Wyler]

I have flown all over the world with many different airlines. BA is definitely the worst. Its almost like the CC are doing you a favour and I find most stand offish as well. Other airlines, especially SIN and Malaysian are far superior and the crew provide an excellent service. However, all is not lost, if you want a real nightmare, fly NZ!

[keeperboy]

I've seen some pathetic posts on here before regarding BA cabin crew but this one takes the biscuit.

Give up trying to add any sense FBW. Just make a search of past posts of those that have charming (NOT!!) things to say about us.

They are constant BA cabin crew bashers and if you do a search on their previous post entries you will see they pop up in nearly every forum regarding BA cabin crew to take a swipe.

For more objective comments on BA cabin crew check out www.airlinequality.com these are views from normal passengers, not people in the industry (or often our own collegues) who are intent in finding fault.

[petitfromage]

Thanks Nivsy...we'd be more than happy to see you come back to Cathay!

The 'trick' to good service is consistency. Most SLF in E/Y, fly maybe twice a year. They save 6+mths for that romantisised holiday and they will, sure as eggs are eggs, remember if they got good value for their hard earned money.

One bad experience or individual can see them never return to your carrier. One great experience and theyre yours for life.

Sadly 99% of CC can be fantastic but the one bad egg can spoil the whole omlette!

As for the BA crew returning from HK....please, give them a break; they were in Wan Chai 'til dawn dancing up a storm!

[flybywire]

Give up trying to add any sense FBW.

Definitely, keeperboy. What's the point....
You and I k now better (and many, many other people who voted for BA in all the airline industry awards).

Plus, it is sooooo bad, how come people are "dying" to worj for us then?
Sure enough a white sheep isn't able to "bleach" all the black ones.......if you know what I mean!!!!!

Keep up the (excellent) work :ok:

FBW:)

[Wyler]

Keeperboy and FBW.
I can assure you I am a normal passenger. I flew BA constantly for a number of years, both business and pleasure, economy and business. I stopped because of the inconsistency of service and, whether you like it or not, the attitude of the CC's. In comparison to other major airlines, you are lagging behind with in flight customer service and the sooner you stop blaming other people/elements and address the problems, the better.

[WHBM]

SLF here. Just to add that BA crew always seem to me one of the best in the industry, whatever class you are in. So well done to the BA crews all round. Some of the tools you are given to do the job with (eg Deli Bags :rolleyes: ) can let the overall impression down, maybe that's what starts the upsets.

Those complaining have obviously never tried the US mainstream carriers, with their "do it our way or get stuffed" attitude, in all classes. I just cannot imagine how their managements have allowed things to deteriorate the way they have done (they didn't used to be anywhere like as bad as nowadays). And I have no doubt they are the highest paid cabin crew in the world to boot.

[nivsy]

Quite, and i agree with previous Wyhler post. I for one do not want to knock BA...but its regular experience that dictates this. Indeed, there was a time when away abroad on business you felt an element of pride to be returning back to the UK with your "home carrier" after enduring sometimes intensive business meetings abroad. Now, quite often, as a matter of preference, one tends to check the prices/availablility of THAT countries carrier, and dare i say it incentives for travel rather than that of BA. The sceptics amongst us could easily interpret the posts of the "BA Cabin Crew" in this forum as " typical as they are when actually on the job"....meaning "we are right - and you are wrong"...no questions asked!. As for quantity/quality of services etc as "voted" - I think all of us involved in business know its not that difficult to provide figures that can show us all in a good light - as well ofcourse as in a bad light. Its not just long haul. Short haul also has (in my opinion) fundamental flaws in respect of service - and no matter what any of BA crew think - I as a passenger have more choice than ever before and am bound to use that choice for the provision of a service that suites ME! You may realise this too late when perhaps BA simply pull out out of routes (and i know this happening) and therefore jobs may be lost in the industry.

[RevMan2]

SLF with a couple of million kms here.

It's the luck of the draw, irrespective of whichever carrier you fly (although bmi comes across as consistently slack...)
- Flight there can be perfect, flight back absolutely duff
- Pax on the lefthand side of the cabin get great service, the rest barely a smile
- Crew on one carrier don't even address you by name (this in First..), another's say "Oh hello, Mr X" when you bump into them at the hotel.

All I'd really like is a bit of consistency and normal levels of politeness

[wanderin_star]

Recently flown several times with the Far Eastern carriers and B.A. crew could certainly learn a lot in terms of hard work and customer service.

[keeperboy]

Tell you what, fly with a far eastern carrier when you have thirty larger louts getting drunk in the cabin and see how great they handle the situation.

Want to crack a joke or have one cracked to you? Forget it. Appreciate a dry sense of humour, or dare I say it conversation? Forget it.

My point is, everyone wants a different style of service on board. As far as I am concerned, the best type of cabin crew is one that can be the pure robotic professional with the passenger in the 'A' seat, crack a joke with the passenger in the 'B' seat, have a conversation with the lady waiting for the loo in the galley. Muck around with the mothers kids at row 54. Not just the 'go through the motions' robots of SIA etc.

BA has some appalling cabin crew. I'm not going to dispute that.

Lets throw some airlines into the fray:

United, American, Continental, Delta.

Qantas, Air NZ.

Varig Aerolineas Argentinas, Avianca.

Virgin, bmi, Mytravel.

Air France, KLM, Lufthansa, Swiss, Olympic

Egyptair, Royal Air Maroc, SAA.

Malaysia, Cathay, Air China, EVA, Garuda.

My point is, for every single one of these airlines there will be one person that has nothing but praise for their crew and service style, and another that can't stand them.

That's the fantastic thing about living in a free market economy, we can pick and choose who supplies our goods and services depending on what we like.

Now i'm sure that if this site was based in the US, American would be the 'BA' of pprune.com, the biggest airline, the most travelled....and most whinged about. In Australasia it would be Qantas. On the continent Lufthansa, Air France and KLM.

[sukigirl]

You have made a very good point there keeperboy, I dont want to get myself into trouble for saying this but in my experience far eastern crew often let their aim of acheiveing excellent customer service (which i dont dispute) before crew and pax safety.

[petitfromage]

Interesting and I can only assume a well qualified statement?

However having personally seen 4 Chinese (female) CC drag down a large and very drunk German chap....
ah, to heck with it....its obviously better on this thread just to generalise and cast aspersions.

Whilst safety remains the primary concern, its not the only concern....if you want return customers that is.

The CC did an excellent job in the YYZ Air France shambles.......but I bet those pax think twice before flying Air France again too!

Also....and no finger pointing but if you did your job correctly in the first place, there would be no "lager louts" (assume you mean lager...not larger?). Im 100% sure it is illegal to be intoxicated on an aircraft.
Dont board them and dont serve them......full stop!
If they dont come back to you.....who cares? You'll lose more valued customers by carrying the "lager louts" anyway.

And before you tout the Asian thing again....yes, we get them here too. The Japanese & Chinese, particularly business men are infamous "lager louts"......we just dont let them on-board!

[keeperboy]

Petitfromage, I think Cathay Pacific is a FANTASTIC airline to fly with and great in-flight service. I flew them only three weeks ago BNE-HKG and was blown away. I was sat down the back and the crew actively come into the cabin and show you to your seat. Two hot meals on an 8 hour flight! WOW. I just wish we had the same resources to work with. My only complaint service wise was that the male Cabin manager was not seen the entire flight. Wasn't at the door to greet pax or farewell them. Never walked to the back of the aircraft once. And not only good service but fantastic safety as well. I remember years ago being told to switch my discman off as they were not permitted onbord CX.

But I think Cathay is in a class of its own and could be favourably compared to any airline in the world.

Alas, this thread isn't about comparing BA to Cathay, it is about BA cabin crew not pulling their weight. Which in my opinion is an un-fair generalised statement to make.

I recently flew with a collegue that had came to BA from the ANA LHR base. I couldn't believe what he was telling me!

The cabin crew will not deal with any issues that involve confrontation. He tells me of times when a First or Club ANA passenger would repeatedly have a crafty fag in the toilet, yet the crew (100% female until the LHR base opened and NH were advised of sex discrimination laws) do not dare confront the passenger. If a passenger in Club Class sat at an exit row doesn't want to place their bag in the overhead locker they are not forced to. They WILL NOT be seen to make a japanese passenger 'lose face'.

This is some peoples advice of great customer service unfortunately.

I know that these comments are only heresay.

But for any of you who have ever flown some of the far eastern carriers (myself included), if you remember back to your flight I am sure you could picture the above incidents happening without reprisal.

[WHBM]

Me again.

I accept that where it comes to serving me a cocktail some of the Asian carriers can make a better job of it than BA.

If it comes one day to managing an emergency evac down the slides however I know who I would prefer to be with .....

[SLF3]

I would say SQ is the best product, but the service delivery is robotic and leaves a lot to be desired. CX have a good product and good service delivery. Emirates has a poor product in the air (3 x 4 x 3 in economy on the 777, no beds in Club), compensated for by excellent crew and ground facilities. KLM has a poor product, poor service delivery and lousy ground facilities.

Have flown BA LGW - IAH return on average once a fortnight since January (in Club). The service delivery is very consistent, and consistently better than at Heathrow. BA are let down by some very camp male cabin crew (their orientation doesn't bother me, their manner does). The long haul Club product needs a revamp.

Have only been down the slides once and BA did well!

Am now flying to Lagos, where BA and Virgin are head to head. Those who have tried Virgin (we are all well worn gold card holders) prefer it: it is the product they mention (seats, beds, food), not the cabin crew.

[southside]

Do BA Cabin crew pull their weight - Who cares...???

Having recently returned from a business trip to Edinburgh I have to report a strange phenominon on the flight.

The flight, predominantly occupied by middle-aged businessmen, started with the normal pre takeoff safety brief given by the Cabin crew,. However, on this occasion , every passenger to a man stopped what they were doing, leant their heads into the aisle and concentrated fully on what the staff were briefing.

Why? Well, when the sun streams through the cabin window it shines right through the skirt on the new uniforms. The new skirts are transparent. Thank you BA, thank you.

[Charlie Pop]

They don't pull their weight so they can save their energy to party downroute! :D

NB by 'party' I mean sit in their rooms for 3 days being miserable and not going out and fumbling for lame excuses if you have the misfortune to stumble upon them in the hotel lobby and ask what they've been up to.

[mk124]

I disagree with emirates having excellent cabin crew...well at least not all of them are anyway

I flew from dubai - singapore and the cabin crew there were the most surly, disinterested, miserable, and incompetent cc i've ever had the misfortune of meeting

How they ever got through the recruitment process i'll never know!

And as for safety...get this...one cc member couldn't even reach to put a bag in the overhead or shut the overhead doors, the passenger had to do it!

Asked one cc for singapore visa form 3 times! and guess what never materialised.

Always had good service on BA, would never fly emirates again.

[OZcabincrew]

i think Emirates are over rated to be honest.

Have flown SQ, nothing flash. Have flown CX, they were ok. Have also flown JAL, wouldn't pay the money for it. Wouldn't even consider flying an American Airline unless i really really had to.

Oz

[Anti-ice]

quote 'Carnage Matey'


"Its a small point of detail but you don't actually do 50-60 hrs per week of work as about a half of that time is spent sitting in CAT or Compass not doing anything at all."

well once again cm , you are talking out of your a**e, as in that month , i have spent 200 mins in compass (mandatory briefing) 40 mins in compass (on 1 turnaround) ,and 75 mins in CAT , which equals 5hrs15 mins versus the 175 hours duty .

The briefings cannot be treated as 'nothing'

So my 115 mins rest compared to my 10500 mins duty does not equate to 50% does it ?
Or are you incapable of basic arithmetic?

Compare that to the 50% of the time you are sat on YOUR a**e reading the paper ..................:rolleyes:

[Hotel Mode]

But 175 hrs duty is a longway short of 50-60hrs a week too! 40 in fact. Shorthaul LHR is massively innefficient for CC (its not cc's fault before i get jumped on) LGW get much more work done in far fewer duty hours for comparable sectors.

[keel beam]

If all of BA's cabin crew can take a step back for a moment and assess themselves - realistically - then alot of the comments on this thread are true. I do quite a bit of duty travel on BA and I know when I have a good crew, not so good crew and crew that should have stayed at home. While your main task is to ensure the safety of passengers, the inflight service is the thing that passengers remember!
In this current catering crisis - on short haul - am I offered 1 or 2 cups of tea during the flight? Only once has this happened to me, and the second cup was welcomed:ok:
When full catering is back on short haul, I think some of the cabin crew will be out of recencey;)

[Carnage Matey!]

Oh dear Anti-ice, I'm afraid you are the one talking out of the proverbial posterior once again!

well once again cm , you are talking out of your a**e, as in that month , i have spent 200 mins in compass (mandatory briefing) 40 mins in compass (on 1 turnaround) ,and 75 mins in CAT , which equals 5hrs15 mins versus the 175 hours duty .

The briefings cannot be treated as 'nothing'

200 minutes in Compass (mandatory briefing). Well that'll be 10 briefings all month then. Then you really try to convince us that in a whole month you've spent just 40 minutes in Compass and 75 minutes in CAT? Well there's two things wrong there - the first being that if you only had 40 minutes in CCO you should have been in CAT anyway, and the second is that to have just one visit to CCO and CAT apiece in a month means you've only done two 3 sector days in the whole month. I know your inefficient but even that is going too far! Evidently you only lke doing 2 sector there and backs, those CDG returns with 7 crew on a 321 are particularly gruelling.

You also seem to have forgotten the minimum 1hr per day you'll waste sitting on a bus on a typical cabin crew roster, so lets knock five hours per week off your actual 'work'. Why don't you tell us how many hours you actually spend flying these months and how many sectors that was then we can work out how much time you actually spend working and how many hours you spend sitting in CCO/CAT/on a bus reading 'Hello'.

And if you really want to talk about reading newspapers, remember we have a camera and can see you reading the papers at 1L, which is something you seem to do an awful lot of given that the only work on board for you is doling out tea, coffee or tap water. Funny how you seem to think that you know what goes on in the flight deck even though you are only there for about 10 minutes each flight as a SCCM and not at all as a junior. I guess BASSA must have told you.

[keeperboy]

Carnage, you are right in saying that LHR EF crew are not working to their most efficient and I don't think anyone realistically is going to dispute that.

Rightly or wrongly, but understandable if you are eurofleet cabin crew, the system is set up that way to protect the cabin crews terms and conditions.

Now in any industry, be it an airline, bank, insurance company or refuse collection, you are not going to put your conditions in the line of fire. OK, maybe if the company was going down the road of Aer Lingus you would think maybe it's time to change. But I guess when you are at the top of the profitability league in your industry you can afford to hang out a little longer.

Nobody disputes that when T5 opens that things won't change. It's reaching a reasonable compromise that is important.

I really think your comments about reading newspapers are unfair. Also 7 cabin crew on a A321 for a CDG.

AF are required to have 8 CC on their A321 when on a sector under 1hr20min.

I realise that it seems ridiculous to have 7 crew on an aircraft while there is no catering onboard. But add 49 Club Passengers into the equation with a full meal service, as well as 'down the back' full, also with a sandwich/drink service, then I would love to see anyone sitting in the galley reading the paper.

I think it is a little bit like saying to you guys up front: 'don't read your paper, just look at your instruments'. Even though there is nothing really to look at. You get my point? On a flight with 7 CC and no catering (or just tea and coffee) it would have pointless to have 7 cabin crew wondering up and down the cabin or fiddling with in the galley trying to look busy. Especially on the longer routes.

There is also another issue here. The catering dispute is lowering moral. Crew are literally fed up with having to apologise for there being no catering.

We feel ridiculous saying to a Club Passenger in the process of ripping our head off "yes, I know this flight is two hours long, and you paid a full fare Club ticket, and the 'dispute' happened three months ago, and we don't have any food or even bottled water to give you. And yes, we are running an hour late".

This isn't on the odd occasion, it is every single flight (especially the bands 2/3) to every second passenger on that flight.

Reckon we will ever see a hotline ticket that our ground and ramp collegues (some of who walked out on th ejob a couple months ago) received during the last debacle?

[Carnage Matey!]

Heres a question for you then. You turn up at an A321 with with only 6 crew and the matrix says you need 7, even though there's still no catering. Are you gonna go with six, or are you going to delat the floight and wait for the seventh? My moneys on the latter.

We're still working to ridiculous crewing levels, and have been for three months, even though there is no justification for them. I bet theres still 6 crew on an A319 to AMS. Thats one passenger seat blocked out and about 20 passengers per crew member to serve drinks too!

IIRC keeperboy you are a fairly new joiner to BA which is probably why you have a realistic idea about what hard work and efficiency in this industry really is. What gets my goat is people like Anti-ice trotting out the BASSA line of 'working' 60 hours per week when we all know that a huge part of that is sitting around on the ground drinking coffee on a union sponsored turnaround.

[Anti-ice]

zzzzzzzzzzzz :yuk:

you can't help yourself can you........

We work damn hard when there is catering onboard - perhaps you want even more crew removed and have to go-around everyday?

As for the fact that they have retained the crew matrix during the gate gourmet situation - its down to crewing and perhaps salary protection - if you had minimum crew every day ,some crew would lose 30-40% of their allowances ,as 50% of eurofleet are on £10k basic a year , that doesn't make things easy.
it is in no way our fault that there is no catering - that was bought upon us by a team of professionals...
and if it makes you feel any better,we only get paid £4.37 if we work between 1300 and 2000.

And ive worked plenty of flights with lower than normal levels recently, OF COURSE we wouldnt delay the flight for extra crew - thats plain rubbish.

You really dont know what you are talking about carnage, :rolleyes: if we DO have a turnaround break it is normally 40 mins - YOU are sat down all day , and we frequently do 11hr+ with no break.

And i'm not 'trotting' out anything... i can add up the hours on my roster ,and now ive fully accounted for my hours , how about you do the same for us to demonstrate your credibility ?

You probably dont like it because you are now working the way we always have....

You have a dreadful approach towards your fellow crew (which is unusual and worrying) , so i suspect that at some point you have been turned down by some object of your affection within the company....

Now go try and make yourself happy, your bank balance will swell considerably in 10 days time, whereas the crew you so love to mock's won't , so instead of printing rubbish on here , go and treat yourself

[Carnage Matey!]

Lets analyse that shall we:

if it makes you feel any better,we only get paid £4.37 if we work between 1300 and 2000.

No it doesn't, but I presume you overlook the basic pay you'll be earning that day? Or is that just a retainer for your services?

ive worked plenty of flights with lower than normal levels recently, OF COURSE we wouldnt delay the flight for extra crew
Well its nice to see somebody making a sacrifice now that you've so little to do on board. Of course once the grubs back it'll be back to square one again, delaying flights for an extra crew member cos you've got one too many Club pax.

You really dont know what you are talking about carnage
Many years LHR shorthaul says I do.
if we DO have a turnaround break it is normally 40 mins -
40 minutes! Are you trying to tell me you get a CAT everyday? There are plenty of 2-3 hr turnarounds in CCO every day. Perhaps you only do there and backs?


YOU are sat down all day
Kind of hard to fly the aircraft standing up.

and we frequently do 11hr+ with no break.
Lets see, 1hr25 report, 45 mins clear, 45 min turnaround that leaves about 8 hours for flying. So unless you do an awful lot of DME, IST, LED, ATH, and LCA there and backs then you don't frequently do 11hr+ without a break. Given the frequency that we fly to those destinations compared to AMS, CDG, BRU, DUS, etc etc, all of which involve either a nightstop or rotation through LHR and by definition a break, I'd say your statement was wholly innaccurate.

i can add up the hours on my roster ,and now ive fully accounted for my hours
So tell us, how many hours on duty this month and how many hours actually flying. Let us know how many sectors that involves and we can calculate how much working as opposed to wasting your doing!

You probably dont like it because you are now working the way we always have

Oh thats the best one yet! When I can have 2 hours off between flights, sit about in Compass all day wasting time, have a 2 sector 3 day HEL trip, get 18 hours off downroute as a right because I spent more than 12 hours at work, get £35 for reducing my turnaround time, get to walk ff an aircraft because its a minute beyond my industrial agreement, then I'll be ''working' like you always have.

[Anti-ice]

Your ignorance is almost breathtaking :rolleyes:

As for the 'info' you choose to print on hear about your colleagues it is an absolute load of rubbish.

You have more hot air than a whole room full of Richard Bransons...
Perhaps you should've been a politician.

You should sit down with some of your colleagues you hold in such deep contempt, and find out what their lives are really like.

As i stated before , i have spent 1hr15mins in a whole month on these so called turnarounds that you state waste so much company time, and that is for 22 days work. Most people have that in one day , and you spend all day sat down.

If you are so keen to paint such an inaccurate picture, then i suggest you should go to a 'chip on your shoulder' removal specialist , and then try and find some happiness....

[Carnage Matey!]

Perhaps you're a bit slow in the uptake here Anti-ice, but if you want to convince people you need to post facts and not personal insults. If my ignorance is so breathtaking then perhaps you could explain which of my statements is factually incorrect and why?

If you have spent 1hr 15 minutes on CAT/CCO turnarounds in a whole month then you have either done one double or one rotation through LHR. 1hr 15 minutes is one LHR turnaround, so the remaining 20 days of your working month have been single sector days or two sector there and backs. Not exactly a typical EF roster, is it?

By the way, if you're working 170 hours per month as you claim then you're averaging under 8 hours per day, not quit the dramatic 11+ hours you claim.

Oh and I really don't know why you're so obsessed with the idea that pilots sit down all day (which is incorrect). It would seem that you think it's impossible to be working unless your standing up. Very peculiar.

Now have another go and see if you can be more convincing this time.

[flyblue]

Can we please make an effort and all try to talk about facts and not comment about how you rate the authoritativeness of your interlocutor? The discussion would only improve. :ok:

[Rescue 137]

How would it be possible to only have 115mins turn around time in a month.23 x 5 = 115 mins so that would be 23 flights over 22 days and that would mean each turn around would be only 5 mins.Ive never seen a turnaround done in 5 mins. The problem here is Carnage see your hours as Flying Hours and you see your hours from Sign on to sign off.Personally I see hours worked for myself as the moment signed on to the moment signed off.

However what I find totally shocking is the apparent attitudes expressed by both CC & FD too each other when you all allsupposed to be working as one big team.I find it unbelieveable that neither party has any appreciation for what the other roles do.I guess theres no chance of what happens at Virgin with CC sleeping with FD all the time if you dont even like each other professionally at BA.

Also why arent BA sorted out with the catering.2 months later and there is still no catering on board.Why are people still flying and paying full price if this is the case?Why is Gate Gourmet still your caterer?(I think we know why that is)Any other other company and GG would have been sacked by now.

Unbelieveable it really is.

[Anti-ice]

The breaks Carnage is trying to refer to , are the ODD occasion during the month when the crew go back to Compass or a central area lounge we have for a 40min - 80 min on average break.

These occur in between links, eg ARN-LHR, then LHR-FRA-LHR.

He is making out they are commonplace and waste company time, while they have long been in our contract,and are one of the rare decent things we have left.
Anyone deserves a break,get away from things, refresh,grab something to eat/drink and maybe even sit down momentarily - and these are normally in the middle of long/very long days.

The point i was making is that we dont spend 50% of our lives doing this, and in september my combined 'base turnarounds' came to 115mins, not 80 hours if it was REALLY half my duty.

He obviously doesnt like the fact that cabin crew even try to have a break , or even sit down for a bit and relax , even though he spends 90% of his job sat down.

The whole thread is about BA crew working hard ,and believe me , we darn well do!!!

I have nothing against any flightcrew, the vast majority are fine , but i take great offence when some flight crew member comes along and rubbishes the cabin crew community.

Whatever happened to good CRM??!?

We all know his type, but he has know right to print such utter rubbish:ok:

[Flying_Sarah747]

C'mon guys, us cabin crew didn't make the rules. It's not our fault the company don't work us efficently! It's human nature to do as little as possible, and if the company has laid out these rules and agreements for us why wouldn't and shouldn't we fight to keep them. Why should we work one crew member down when it says we shouldn't have to? We'd be stupid if we did. In the end everybody wants an easy life. That's not to say we don't do our job well when we're actually doing it, but why do you think we choose to work for BA over BMI or a low cost carrier or charter...I can tell you why I do...Because it's a cushy little number that pays me well so I don't want for anything, we have excellent agreements, and it's status working for the countries flag carrier.

P.S. To all you crew out there who make out we have it hard, I think you need to take a good look at what we've actually got!!! It isn't that bad at all! And good on you all who fight to keep it!

[Rescue 137]

One of the countries flag carrier's.BMI and Virgin now carry that Flag internationally as well.Virgin is the one that carries the flag(visually) as it is on the wingtips of 747-400's.Maybe BA should adopt what SAA do and have the Flag under the A/C Reg.

Sarah-Your comments on why you work for BA arent going to help the doubters that BA CC actually pull there weight but Im keeping out of that argument as its not for me to comment on.

[Flying_Sarah747]

I wasn't saying we don't pull our weight, I was saying we do what our agreement says to do, therefore how can we be accused of not pulling our weight? We can only be expected to do what we're told to do, and if that's easier than some other airlines, then so be it, but it doesn't mean we don't pull our weight. It's all relative really isn't it?

[Carnage Matey!]

Rescue 137 - the 115 minutes turnaround are not turnaround times downroute, they are turnaround times at LHR where our cabin crew seem to be unique in their inability to stay on board an aircraft. I get the impression from your posts that you do not actually work in the airline industry as you seem somewhat pre-occupied with the idea of everybody shagging each other down route. I can assure you most flight crew have a pretty good idea what the cabin crew job involves through either having worked as crew or being the partner of crew or simply sitting down the back as a pax on a regular basis. Sadly that knowledge is not reciprocated. On the subject of GG, having sacked them as you suggest, who would you suggest could take over the contract at short notice?

Anti-ice - the breaks I refer to, as you well know, occur on any double day or any trip when you pass through LHR.
These are by no means odd occasions but will occur every time the crew do a 3 or 4 sector day. The minimum short turnaround time is 1hr50mins up to a max of 2hr 30, so you'll really have to be on minimum turnaround times to get less than 40 minutes rest, not withstanding the requirement to have a minimum of 30 minutes 'time at table' to eat. And don't forget the £35 you get as compensation for accepting an STR. Longer than that and you go back to Compass, and people go back to Compass more often than they go to CAT.
He is making out they are commonplace and waste company time, while they have long been in our contract,and are one of the rare decent things we have left.
They are commonplace, and just because they have been in your contract since the 70s doesn't mean they don't waste company time.

Your combined base turnarounds for September could not total 115 minutes unless you only did one base turnaround all month. As I've already mentioned, minimum STR is 1hr50. It would appear we are calculating these in different ways. How do you calculate 115mins?

He obviously doesnt like the fact that cabin crew even try to have a break , or even sit down for a bit and relax , even though he spends 90% of his job sat down
I don't have a problem with you having a break, but a 3 hour break? As for the 90% sat down comment, see my response to R137 about the lack of reciprocal knowledge.
have nothing against any flightcrew
Except believing that as we spend '90% of our time sat down' we're not doing any work.
Whatever happened to good CRM??!?
Do you think you could call the flight deck if you saw flames coming from an engine after take off? If the answer is yes then CRM is working. It's not about being nice to each other. I suggest you read TightSlots excellent post about CRM here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=195261&perpage=20&pagenumber=2).

Flying Sarah
C'mon guys, us cabin crew didn't make the rules. It's not our fault the company don't work us efficently
You may find BASSA had rather a lot to do with it! That said, the rest of your comments are spot on! You'd be amazed how easy it is to spot the crew who have come from EF LGW, bmi, Virgin, Easyjet or the charter world compared to the dyed in the wool EF LHR crew. Their attitudes are poles apart. Its refreshing to see somebody who can compare the job to real world occupations for once.

[Anti-ice]

Look, i've only just scanned your post Carnage, and i'm not going to get in a long drawn out battle over this .

I just take great offence to your original posting stating that BA cabin crew spend 50% of their duty on breaks which is absolute rubbish.

The facts i stated earlier are all true, i only had 3 CAT/compass turnarounds in September, all of which were absolute minimums ( 2X45mins).(1X25mins- we agreed to reduce due to severe disruption).

We get very little/no time to ourselves, given that WE now do all the return catering preps/changeovers downroute on 90% of our routes (when catering fully returns).

A 3 hr turnaround is highly unusual ,and that is from landing to takeoff, so may equate to an 80 min break after everything else is done.This is very rare though , and ive probably had 2 max like that this whole year.

Why you want people to think that we are on continuous breaks beggars belief, but 50% is complete rubbish.

Maybe it is because we do have the odd break/feel refreshed on a 10/12 hour day, is the reason why we score highly in our customers estimations and they return and spend alot of money with us ?
If the crew are happy, it follows that the customers are too.

Its probably also why our competitors lose hundreds of crew to us each year as well.

The CAT lounge in particular is always full of flight crew so why the big issue?

Why you want to begrudge anyone on a 11-12 hr day the opportunity of a sit down for 30-40mins is just unwarranted malevolence..........
Or perhaps you want to see the saving put in your pension pot
:rolleyes:

[Carnage Matey!]

2x45 mins and 1x25 mins (well done for reducing) is the time you get to sit in the CAT but doesn't include wasted time sitting on busses going to and fro. However thats still not a representative Eurofleet roster as it means you were on there and backs for the remaining 19 days you worked. Thats pretty unusual. If you have been on there and backs then you are probably working more efficiently than most of the EF community who are doing a mix of doubles and tours, most of which either start or end with a single sector day. There are very few 3-2-3 tours, and I don't think I've ever seen a 3-4-3 amongst CC.

On the matter of return catering I understood that crew were still working to BASSAs diktat that they must not touch the catering downroute and local caterers must do the rearranging. As such you are not doing any more downroute through return catering than you would do ex-LHR. Correct me if I am wrong. And you are still sticking to BASSA agreements even though there has been no catering of significance on board since mid-August.

Hundreds of cabin crew join BA from other airlines because we pay them more and they work far less. That seems to be the view amongst every new entrant I've spoken to, with the single exception of an ex-easyjet steward who said he could earn as much but only by doing lots of DF on a six sector day through NCE. I'll agree that customer satisfaction levels are high, but if you know that you'll also know that the customers say consistency is a serious problem. You'll also know where the CSDs file GPMs which are critical of the crew. You'll also know that Pursers won't hand out GPMs because BASSA say it's not in their job description.

The CAT lounge has flight crew in it because the company aren't capable of rostering fixed links on every flight and they have to go somewhere in between. Whilst there they invariably do some productive work getting the latest flight plans and weathers and determining fuel loads etc. Occasionally they are rostered a meal break, but only if the duty is over a meal window and the company have chosen not to put a crew meal on the flight for them. Compare that with the CC requirement for long turnarounds on most trips and no work conducted during the CAT other than reading Hello! magazine and delaying transport because you've only had 43 minutes and not 45 (you can have the CSDs name if you want it).

By the way, I think we've already established you don't do many 11-12 hour days unless you've been sitting around for a few hours already. That was a few posts back. However perhaps you'd like to post an example of an 11+ hour day that does not involve a DME, IST, ATH, LCA, KBP, TIP or LED there and back?

[flybywire]

In a perfect world I would like to change this thread's title to Do LHR-based BA cabin crew pull their weight. It's all about you guys!

While I believe that once on board we do all work really hard, our agreement at LGW is completely different. With the introduction of fixed links we can have only a 45 min. turnaround at LGW in between a 12hr double.
I don't remember the last time I walked to Jubilee house in between my sectors. It must have been months ago.

If we get delayed we don't miss our next leg because we have to have a minimum turnaround at base. Non-planned fixed links (i.e. because of a delay) become a rush between the two planes, most times running across the terminal or to the other side of the bridge (BA have sacked 80% of our bus drivers).

So I would be grateful if you guys could keep us out of all of that. We suffer enough as it is - we will also lose the last crew member and go on CAA minimum crew very soon, while promoting and offering ppl to upgrade to Club at the same time!!!!!!!)

BA isn't just LHR, but reading here once again, unfortunately, it feels like it is.

However what I find totally shocking is the apparent attitudes expressed by both CC & FD too each other when you all allsupposed to be working as one big team.I find it unbelieveable that neither party has any appreciation for what the other roles do.I guess theres no chance of what happens at Virgin with CC sleeping with FD all the time if you dont even like each other professionally at BA.

Rescue....you are great :E

[Rescue 137]

Carnage-I worked at LHR for 4 1/2 years and left to get a better paid job as the minimum pay that alot of airport workers are payed isnt worth getting out of bed or viable to live in London.I have spent 6 1/2 out of the last 8 years in LHR though and thinks that gives me the knowledge to express my opinions.My post about the hours was to just simply try to explain it as I couldnt understand and that is why I havent slagged anyone off about that.

The comment about Cabin Crew sleeping around has been brought up here on pprune.Im not preoccuppied with it but it gets posted quite alot about Virgin CC.A friend works for Virgin in Op's and he says the same.Im not going to discuss that on here as there is another thread on that and it has all been discussed on there.

How the hell do you guys & Gals spend the time down route when you cant even stand each other.Do FD & CC not associate at all in the hotel and keep to your seperate camps?

GG-They have you over a barrell then if you will never move.If its 2 months then they could have been talking to other parties by now.They couldnt have moved but if I got on a BA plane 2 months after the strike and there was still no catering then I wouldnt be happy.Are customers still being sold tickets at full price with no catering?

I spent 3 1/2 years on 747's for 15 hours a day and ended up doing around 10,000 hours and also been on every Concorde when it was flying so although I may not be "In the Airline Industry" at the moment then my knowledge and experience on certain things gives me the choice to post here.

Carnage & Anti-ice - You just reinforce the attitude that alot of people have about certain parts of pprune,that it is a little bit too intense and people take themselves too serious.

FBW - Cheers,Right back at yeah :O

p.s. My username states my real interest in Aviation and if anyone can get what its related too exactly then you get a prize:D
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quote:
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there\'s a lot of silly girls out there who will go with anything with stripes.........................pilots have more opportunity and more silly/desperate little girls throwing themselves at them!!!
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Wish I worked for the same airline as you.
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Carnage-Found this reply of your's in the thread I was talking about.It doesnt seem to be me thats preoccupied.
:p

[Carnage Matey!]

Its the callsign of the Lossie SAR Sea King. Whats my prize?

Time down route? What makes you think we need to socialise with the CC downroute? I've known people go sightseeing, motorcycling, sailing, surfing, skiing, hang gliding, white water rafting, light aircraft flying, hill walking and golfing. I've seen people ditch the crew hotel and go straight to Vegas from the airport. People go to visit friends and relatives, buy things for home, visit museums and galleries. On top of that it's usually pretty sociable anyway with people meeting up for dinner and drinking. The caveat is that it's always the FD who do this because on a crew of 16 if you invite the CC along you'll be lucky to get any interest from more than a couple and they more than likely won't turn up the next day anyway. I'm not sure where you get your idea that its all one big happy family downroute. Its two disparate groups of employees. I can tell you that on longhaul I've had more nights out with the Virgin crew than with our mob. Most FD don't know what cabin crew do for 4 days in their rooms down route ('resting' is the usual answer) and to be honest we really don't care!

In response to your edit, perhaps sarcasm & cyncism don't really come across well on a forum.:hmm: I believe my scenario above is rather more commonplace than the roman orgies some people believe occur.

[Rescue 137]

Well done-Your prize is knowing that you were right:D

The edit was a joke? As you say they dont come over well on a forum.Good luck out there.

[keeperboy]

Carnage, you are right. Many crew at BA leave other airlines to come to BA because we are paid more and perhaps work a little less.

I guess the main reason for me wanting to come to BA (I worked at bmi), was because I wanted to work for a professional outfit. For once I had something, written in black-and-white, about what is expected of me and when I can say 'no'.

At bmi, you could get rostered a very rare two sector day, and when you land back from that and getting your things together to go home you are told by the dispatcher you need to do two more sectors as they are short of crew. Can you imagine the sort of service the passengers on those next two sectors received? Can you imagine the loyalty instilled into you for the company, by the company?

On top of that we were spoken to like crap by un-professional, nasty management with no skills what-so-ever.

That is not a way to treat anyone, cabin crew, pilot, cleaner.....

My personal opinion (and again this is my personal opinion) when I was on short-haul I did think I spent too much time hanging around compass/CAT, but I can see the reason for it from the unions point of view.

Anyway, I think it is generally accepted that things will change before the move to T5.

In regards to return catering, it is the cabin crew that do the swapping of trolleys, hots etc not caterers.

There are no 3 x 4 x 3 sector 3 day trips although 3 day trips with 1 sector at either or both ends are fairly rare. Scheduling adjust the trips depending on how over/under crewed EF are.

A few years ago LHR EF was so undercrewed, 1 sector days on trips were practically unheard of.

Now LHR EF are well and truly OVER crewed so more one sector days will probably happen so there is still enough work to go around. Also a couple WW LHR 767 routes are being transferred across to LHR EF as WW are under crewed and EF over crewed.

Within BA this isn't just an issue with cabin crew. I mean look at the bus drivers? Look at the type of conditions they work to?? What a joke! We land from a twelve hour flight onto a remote stand and after working hard to leave a favourable impression with our passengers they are stranded for half an hour because the bus drivers can only come into the central area so many times per day etc etc. At least even if we aren't the most economically efficient crew, we make a significant contribution to the profits. Where do the bus drivers come in?

[jettesen]

keeperboy - U guys are in a union aren't you? well why don't you get the union involved ifd thats the case of them changing ur 2 sector days at short notice. It used to happen nin my company all the time, but we put our foot down and now crewing have to give us 12hrs notice for any change. worked a treat! keep on in there and get the union to sort something out.

[keeperboy]

Hey Jettesen, it was at my old airline (bmi) that I was talking about. I was in the union, but they were absolutely useless (Cabin crew 89). Maybe that was down to the fact that only about 30% of the crew bothered being in the union.

When we complained about the disruption we were basically told if we didn't like it we could walk......there were plenty of people working in the local supermarket that would like our jobs. :mad:

Luckily, BA is worlds apart. At least you feel valued and we do have an effective union.

[Da Dog]

Perhaps this will help shed some light on the discussionthe sun (http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2005500149,00.html) :oh:

[keeperboy]

Oh my GOD it must be true if it's in The Sun!!!! :yuk:

Blown out of proportion if I even heard it.

We were all sent a crewlink e-mail about a week ago from the safety department to say that they had received a few complaints regarding a minority of our 13000+ crew.

These complaints were made by some passengers as well as other crew and related to crew reading papers, doing puzzles and drinking coffee (!!) during take off and landing.

Said e-mail said blah blah blah blah....don't do it!

The Sun, ever known for its impartial coverage of important world wide news, jumped on this 'story' and put it in it's sad rag. Worse was that it touted the line that we were banned from doing the 'Sun Duko.

Which is rubbish cos it's the Daily Mail we get for free. :p

[Da Dog]

Keeperboy.............chill talk about taking yourself seriously I only posted it for a laugh:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[DarkStar]

Positioned back from JFK last week and as usual the fastest bit action that I witnessed was the speed they ran around pulling the blinds down so they could get some rest...the crew that is, not the pax! 5.53 sector time as well. One drink service and then 'nothing'. Loads of pax looking around waiting for service. It was embarrassing. It won't be long before passengers are chloroformed for convienence.:}

[VisaGeeza]

Similar experience I'm afraid on a very recent trip back fom Mexico City. Mexican CC retired to tail section leaving British crew in charge. While I was in the galley requesting water, Mexican passenger came in asking for food in Spanish. English steward says " can you speak in English?" Incidentally, it was the very same steward who had opened the overhead locker above me without any due care as demonstrated in the sfety video! then responded to my comment "carefull the locker is full" with "we are permitted to open the overheads you know!"

Makes me proud to be English sometimes! - not!

Fly the flag!!!!

[backseatjock]

It is all so variable, at the moment. When good it is very good, but sadly the indifferent seems to be on the increase again at BA. With the continued lack of catering on most s/h, it is interesting to see how different crews react.

The good, sadly in the minority from my experience, will do their best to make up for the lack of catering by talking more to pax (expec in J) and venturing up and down the cabin a couple of times offering more coffee, tea, water or Walkers shortbread (must buy some shares in that Company).

Unfortunately, the majority seem to provide a single paper cup of coffee etc and then retreat behind the curtain for remainder of the flight.

Yesterday, LHR-PRG, I 'dared' to venture behind the curtain to ask for a second cup of coffee. It all seemed just a little too much trouble for the two crew who were having a jolly time there, although after a disapproving look, I did manage to return safely to my seat, with mission accomplished.

Previous estimates were that catering (breakfast and evening meal the most needed) would be back across Europe network by end October. Now few CSDs will comment and some now seem to query whether it will return at all.

My patience is being strectched thin with BA s/h - will catering ever return as we used to know it? I still have J-class seat on most sectors, but there really is no benefit these days. Often just three rows with everyone packed in 2+3, while Y class has more space. And 'compensation' vouchers now seem to have reduced to just GBP5 unless you speak nicely to the ground staff.

Appreciate that the whole Gate Gourmet dispute and the carry on with bus drivers at LHR does little to help morale among people on the front line, especially CC. Just wish some would understand how frustrating it can also be for the SLF - and especially those who pay significantly more for (in theory) a higher standard of cabin service.

If BA revenues are largely derived from J-class seat sales, is it not in the airline's interests to do just a little more to ensure passengers do not vote with their travel budgets and move to other carriers. This has gone on too long.

To prove I am not another BA-knocker, I must finish by saying that my BA l/h experience is usually the opposite from above. Usually good or very good, with just one or two negative experiences. A lot seems to be down to the CSD and how he/she motivates the team. Usually end up chatting to CC in upstairs galley on 74s.

Providing you recognise they actually have a job to do and do not intrude too much, or play bull**** bingo with them, crew seem to be more than happy to chat over a tea or coffee. Not many airlines (VS apart) have crews that would be in the least bit interested.

[flybywire]

Is BA just LHR!!!!!!!!

I don't think so!!! :mad:

BTW to all EF LGW crews......they are doing it!! Read the latest Cabin Crew News..........how many :mad: flights are now "trialling" with only 3 cabin crew??? Same level of service??? They can only dream about it.

Why do they do this in November?????? They should have trialled it in JULY/AUGUST!!!!!!!!

We are sick and tired of working our socks off and yet being labelled the same as those few (I hope) black sheep.

All this thread is useless. People, you don't like flying with BA? Then, by all means, DON'T.

:mad:


PS: on BA news there was an article "how will you spend the extra hour this sunday". People said "in bed" "quality time with family".
Guess what, no response from CC, of course.
Of 5 people on my crew yesterday, 4 of us had been rostered minimum rest (12 hours) and yet we finished after 1am. On paper it looks like 11 hours, but thank god for the time change we still have 12 hours!! Yahoo!! :yuk:

I am off to work.

[Da Dog]

Flybywire, why don't you complain to BASSA or CC89, oh I forgot neither of them care about LGW, keep paying your subs life will get better;) :zzz:

[flybywire]

I know CC89 and BASSA don't give a :mad: about LGW (short haul, of course. For long haul it's slightly different).
Sad but painfully true.

The problem, you see, is that at the end of the day we all fly for the same company. WE ARE the same company.
I expect that behaviour from BASSA or CC89 (which I am NOT supporting) but I don't like to then be involved with all this "BA are lazy" attitude.

We don't swim in gold here at LGW and work our :mad: off. No catering problems,thank god, summer overbooked all the way through and minimum crew. Lots and lots of "rest day working available" crewlink messages. Minimum rest and multi-sector days with fixed links becoming a constant feature even for doubles = longer sectors and no rest in between.

And, what's most important, no matter how tired we are, we DO take care of our passengers. And very much so.

[backseatjock]

Flybywire makes a good point and my apologies to her and her colleagues at LGW. Comments in my previous posting were not LGW-oriented.

Fell into the trap, as many seem to do, of generalising across all BA - instead of restricting my comments to LHR and its ongoing problems.

Need to change my routings and fly the Gatwick experience more often methinks! Especially after reading some of FBW's previous postings about new(ish) cc uniform and entertaining the SLF!

[rzw30]

First post on this board

As a PAX, BA is my airline of choice. There is only one reason, the quality of cabin crew and the service.

Back to the Clarkson article, in general in my experience he is talking out of his a**e.

There are a few exceptions, the other day I saw a PAX in club carrying a truly monster bag which would not go into the (full) lockers. He approached a cabin crew who told him it was oversize and walked off. Not Good.

It needs few of these sort of stories to harm the rep. of the airline.

I am sure that these are the few, but what to do about them?

It also upsets me to see posts on investors bulletin boards from disaffected cabin crew saying how the union is engineering industrial problems and how they are poorly paid.

[HZ123]

I think for many at BA the main goal is getting away with as much as possible with the aim of doing the mimimum. This applies from my viewpoint to staff at all levels not just CC if indeed this is the case. Surely BA staff are no different from those at many other airlines. CC are entitled at present to be demotivated with such a long period of catering shortages. At BA, I feel ashamed at this continuing farce which once again is some way short of being resolved. Thank you to all our loyal customers and the many of the commited BA staff.

[Da Dog]

HZ123 need to get out of Cranebank a bit more mate;)

CC demotivated :oh: :oh: :oh: :oh:

What the catering service means is more rest, now I know its back on long haul, but when it was'nt I have never seen the crew so happy.

Now, on short haul it means that "hello" and "ok" can be read cover to cover before you get to the hotel room, now I guess for some that is demotivating, I mean what else are the darlings going to do in their hotel room for the next 20 hours??????:confused:

[ozzy05]

:) Seems to be another BA crew bashing thread, most of it fuelled by a silly billy Nigel who spends most of his life sitting on his grammer school educated backside, having never done a real job in the grown up world, and has the nerve to criticise grown ups who work for a lving.

[Da Dog]

hey ozzy05 I thought your thread had some truth to it until you said "work for a living" then I new it was a wind up:D :D :D :zzz:

[TightSlot]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c57/TightSlot/sign_trolls.gif

ozzy05 & Da Dog - You two are having a private row on another BA thread, and now it has leaked into this thread as well. Fascinating, no doubt for both of you - very tedious for everybody else. Now, either the two of you get a room and work out your primal passion together, or the two of you cease the bickering!!

Either way, it stops now...

:hmm:

[Da Dog]

Tightslot, are you sure your not a BASSA rep in your spare time?
:p

[ozzy05]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: So now we can't disagree without being censored................................................stra nge forum.

[TightSlot]

Happy days...

ozzy05 Threadban

Never said that you couldn't post, just that you couldn't bicker. Here's another piece of free advice - Don't :mad: with the Mods ;)

[Skylion]

The nub of the issue is quite simple. BA's loyal customers will walk away if things do not improve. The service varies from the excellent to the awful,- and which way it goes is largely down to leadership- the CSD/Purser.
BA is a great employer in most ways and looks after its people well and pays the highest overall rates in the UK. Its people must accept that they have willingly , indeed eagerly, signed up to a job description with all the pluses and minuses that a flying shift job entails for a known set of terms and conditions which may change in detail over time but not desparately ( ie they still remain the best in the UK business and offer a long term career). For them then to spend a lifetime being unhappy with whatever follows, including the not unreasonable demand that they work their backsides off till the day they leave is an absurd waste of a lifetime and makes them pretty miserable individuals. Who is suffering? Them ,- not " the management". To be motivated by how little you can do is an extraordinary way to live a life and what a terrible epitaph at the end of a career " he /she successfully failed to enjoy their working life or make a positive impact on anyone during it"

[Da Dog]

Very well put Skylion, a very balanced post, just don't expect anyone to agree with you:rolleyes:

[philip2004uk]

{quote/}Wyler

"I have flown all over the world with many different airlines. BA is definitely the worst. Its almost like the CC are doing you a favour and I find most stand offish as well. Other airlines, especially SIN and Malaysian are far superior and the crew provide an excellent service. However, all is not lost, if you want a real nightmare, fly NZ!"
Wyler(quote)





I can't believe i let someone like you get to me about my grades. You clearly don't have anything but ignorance. BA cabin crew are the most down to earth people although that's probably why you're bashing them.

I worked for 2 years in the BA terminal at manchester, and a recruiter on her said he employs non-snobby people who are kind and pleasant and i agree with him and they are doing a good job because i don't have one bad thing to say about BA[B][COLOR=crimson][B]

[HZ123]

Got to pull you up on this. BA cabin crew and for that matter those of other airlines are hardly the same as many of the other staff of airlines or civy street. It is an exclusive club and in BA a well rewarding experience. Futhermore it is diferent in having a high per centage of gay men which differs from many other walks of life.

If the recruiter was indeed not emplying 'snobby people' then they were discriminatory and hardly a role model.