No. of pilots question

[dangermouse]

What defines how many pilots a Civilian helicopter needs? Why can a military variant of an aircraft fly with 1 pilot yet the civil aircraft needs 2?

is it a size thing?

any advice from JAR?FAR?BCAR would help

thanx

DM

[last third]

I think you might me right. Some of the Mil pilots I have flown with recently take up most of the cockpit by themselves. Might be time to re-visit the PT?

:sad:

[Disguise Delimit]

Different strokes for different folks. Military don't obey no civvy rules for nobody.

We flew Hueys single pilot IFR with no SAS, no autopilot, no nothing, just a single ADF for guidance.

In the civvy world, a 212 with a 3-axis autopilot still needs 2 pilots for IFR, along with its ADF, VOR, DME, ILS and anything else they can jam in.

[Woolf]

Generally the Helicopter certification determines the number of pilots required. The flight manual will give this information.

Additionally for Commercial Air Transport under JAR (JAR-OPS3) two pilots are required for:

- IFR operations with a maximum approved passenger seating configuration of more than 9

- Any operation with a maximum approved passenger seating configuration or more than 19


Disguise Delimit wrote:
We flew Hueys single pilot IFR with no SAS, no autopilot, no nothing, just a single ADF for guidance.
Good luck to you! Then again you wouldn't be flying around with cloud on the deck and an RVR of 500m would you?

Woolf

[Shawn Coyle]

In the civil world, the requirements are dictated by the certification of the helicopter - Part 27 and Part 29. They have requirements for single pilot IFR use in terms of stability and handling and redundancy of systems.
For example, for the Bell 430 to be single pilot IFR, it needed to have a second AFCS fitted - the two pilot version was OK with a single AFCS. The logic was that if the single AFCS failed in the two pilot version, the second pilot could handle the radios and housekeeping stuff while the first pilot kept the blue side up. If only one pilot was on board, the handling without AFCS wasn't up to the requirements, so a second AFCS was needed.
The military may have some different approach, depending on the country involved.

[Heavy Lift R22]

Not sure about the army but we all know which team the navey pilots bat for. i think the concern is by putting 2 of these pilots in the same cocpit together might cause them to get side traked by each other.

[chuckolamofola]

Shawn you are correct but... The 412 is a better example.

Another key identifer is the number of pax you want to carry and whether or not you are flying FAA part 135 (for hire). For instance the Bell 412 is certified to fly single pilot. You can do so as long as it is not able to carry more than 9 pax's as in VIP or EMS. However, once you have more than 9 seats part 135 requires a second pilot. The 430 can't carry more than 9 pax's thus doesn't require the second pilot as long as it has the appropriate equipment.

Chuck