View Full Version : Lockheed F-104 Starfighter
yellowwolf
6th Oct 2005, 17:45
Gents
Having worked my way through Mike Beachy Head,s fleet in Cape Town over the past three years I am hoping to fly Rick Svetkoff,s CF-104D early next year.Can any one tell me how this aeroplanes aerobatic capability is affected when carrying external tanks.
Cheers
Stephen
I'll tell ya......if you lend me the money to fly the Lightning!!!;)
Good grief, I didn't think the 104 could do even do turning, let alone aerobatics.....
Wholigan
6th Oct 2005, 19:08
You need to hope that if you have external fuel tanks you only have tip tanks. The pylon tanks make the aircraft a boring, shuddering bitch (and no – it’s NOT just like a wife --- it’s worse). It would be preferable if you had a clean aircraft. Since I suspect the flight will not be planned to be too long anyway, try to persuade the owner that you’d like to fly a clean jet. Tips won’t be too bad, but refuse to fly one with pylon tanks if you want to enjoy the trip.
If you want to do aerobatics, its clean limits (below Mach 1.9) are plus 7.33G and minus 3.0G. I have to be honest and say that I have forgotten what the limits are for tanks various – it was about 28 years ago that I last flew it! It can actually perform reasonably well if you have take-off flap down. As the selection speed limit for take-off flap is 450 knots, and you can do 520 knots when they are down at take-off, using flap is not a problem.
A word of advice ---- do NOT snatch the G on. It has a stick shaker that operates when you are approaching a not very nice stage of flight, and a stick kicker that really complains that you have been a ham-fist. The shaker/kicker operates both on a steady state application of angle of attack that is approaching/has reached the limits, and also when you “snatch” the G on (rate shaker/kicker). You do NOT want to go through these subtle hints unless you enjoy flying backwards in an aircraft that is not designed to fly backwards!
Prolonged rapid rolling can also be interesting (something to do with B over A ratio --- or is it the other way round --- I used to know that!). If you remember to have about half a G on, there will be no rolling problems. However, if you forget that, you may also explore some rather interesting flight regimes.
It’ll be great fun! Enjoy it.
PS --- it'll do Mach 2 or 750 knots EAS and that's moving some.
reynoldsno1
7th Oct 2005, 00:52
I didn't think the 104 could do even do turning, let alone aerobatics
The Belgian Air Force used to have an aerobatic pair called the Slivers, ISTR - based out of Beauvechain. V. impressive, though I the show was fairly short as they reached bingo fuel pretty quickly.....
johnfairr
7th Oct 2005, 07:19
Saw a pair of Dutch 104s at Biggin in the BoB display September 75. I was 2i/c flying for the weekend (read "Gopher for any visiting a/c").
Sunday evening all remaining aircrew decamped to a pub in Redhill, including the Arrows, appropriately. Much falling over liqiud consumed and muttered comments about the forthcoming departure antics.
Bright and early next day, the Cloggies form up for a pairs t/o heading southwards (I forget the runway headings, but the one away from Bromley). Full chat on the donks, no ease back on the stick, merely raise gear as they come over the 'bump'. The #2 then rolls inverted as they approach the dip at the end of the runway and barrels around the #1 as they climb out! AWESOME.
People were waiting for the crash in the valley, but they were a bit early. Silent crowd shambles away muttering about safety limits etc. Fantastic stuff.
jf
Perhaps a better person to ask would be someone like Rick Svetkoff - just a thought.
2P