Air Transat CC falls from Aircraft [Archive]

TightSlot

6th Oct 2005, 10:09

The thread was moved by the R&N Mods, however a redirect remains there so that the thread may be followed from that forum. A move to another forum does not represent a dilution of importance: It is simply good housekeeping. The CC forum is read by a wide number of visitors from all areas of the industry, not solely Cabin Crew.

Point taken that falling can happen to anybody: However, in this instance, as all too frequently, it was a CC involved, and this is also reflected in the Air Transat CC falls from Aircraft title that was given to the thread.

Ground Handling at many UK airports has (in my view) deteriorated over the past 5 years, not helped by ever decreasing turnaround times and equipment that is being used well past its' sell-by date. I'm saddened, but not surprised when people are hurt: I'm surprised that it doesn't happen more often!

Naturally, all of us I'm sure wish this poor person a speedy recovery and no lasting illeffects.

HotDog

6th Oct 2005, 10:32

More years ago than I care to remember, one of our Japanese cabin crew ran back up the rear mobile stairs of a Convair 880 at Haneda to retrive her handbag which she left behind on a terminating flight. Unbeknowns to her, the stairs were driven away and she plunged to the ground as she left the aircraft. Intensive care and several fractures later, she lived to fly another day. Lovely girl she was, bless you Aki.

Even at an earlier date, a Qantas flight steward came out for a breather at Paya Lebar Singapore and lent against the retractable panel at the top of the mobile steps at the rear door of a 707. The panel collapsed and the flight steward fell backwards, landing on his head on the tarmac below. Tragically, he did not survive his injuries.

tewkesbury

6th Oct 2005, 11:09

This has happened before at MAN, several years a BA CC fell from a LGW 737 after the rear steps were taken away. The really ironic thing, apart from that she died later in hospital, was her brother was the F/O on that flight.
After this I know several engineers had taken it upon themselves to repremand the handlers over unsafe practices, only to get grief from the said individuals.
They then went on to kill a Crossair Captain with a baggage truck and serverly incapatate another Britania Captain and F/O, now they are back with tying to kill CC again.
This is the sad side of the free market, when you get low life who don't care, responsable for other peoples lives and safety.:* :{ :*

flybywire

6th Oct 2005, 11:41

A BA new entrant CC fell from a 737 in CDG a couple of years ago-as she started closing her door the stairs were removed without notice-and since then the rules have changed in my company.

In Theory the ground staff should come to the door, ask permission to remove the stairs to the crew responsible for that door, release the gust lock and help the crew close it. Not because we can't do it on our own, but because we can't "walk in" those heavy doors anyway, we have to keep our feet inside the plane for safety reasons thus making the whole process more difficult on our backs.

Too many times though (especially in airports like AMS, FCO, VRN etc) the ground staff decide to ignore this procedure, which is annoying and dangerous. Once I found myself being carried away by the steps at the back while breathing a bit of fresh air during the turn around!! Thank god I was completely "outside" and could hang on to the handrails till my squeaky voice attracted the attention of the cleaners. The Captain that day issued the biggest b***ocking to the ground staff I've ever seen in my flying career!!!

FBW:)

Parcelpup

6th Oct 2005, 11:42

Very sad to hear about this. However not too surprised after watching the way the ground crews often manoeuvre the steps.

Without turning this into a witchhunt, has anyone any serious ideas how this could be stopped?

I'm of the opinion that there should be some way of actually attaching the top of the steps to the inside of the aircraft that sounds a warning if they try and move it. For example if the retactable strap linked onto the steps and sounded off when they were pulled away without it being disconnected. A bit like the girt bar blowing a slide if it is not disarmed.

phd

6th Oct 2005, 12:40

This hazard is addressed in CAP 642 'Airside Safety Management' and should be covered in the operator's turnround plan required under HSE document HSG209.

There have been enough injuries and near-misses that every operator should know by now they must manage this risk via operating procedures, training and supervision of the ramp workforce.

Our own company procedure is very clear. No one removes stairs or airbridges until they have communicated with the cabin crew and have been given explicit permission to do so.

The HSE views falls from height as a priority for their inspectors. It will be interesting to see if an investigation commences.

HotDog

6th Oct 2005, 12:42

Simple, before driving away the steps from an open door, make the driver go up and pull the door safety strap across or close the door. Too easy I guess.

HZ123

6th Oct 2005, 12:52

This as mentioned is covered it is indeed part of BA's operating procedures that doors are neither closed / opened without the presence of stairs / jetty. If CC see it being done, report this issue every time. I can comment that BA is reasonably disciplined with this task. However at LHR and many other stations some airlines/ ground service groups seem to delight in having doors open without stairs / jetty. Finally, the strap is merely in place as a visible reminder, to take care if the position is unattended it will not save anyone from falling. None of this is of any help to this CC member.

clicker

6th Oct 2005, 14:42

Why can't they have some attachment on the stairs or jetty that hooks onto the aircraft but cannot be released except by the cabin staff or ground engineers.

Then staff can't remove the stairs without someone knowing.

Ron

1DC

6th Oct 2005, 15:16

If all stairs are "drive away", then when stairs are connected the truck keys should be given to CC and only given back when CC approve disconnection..

triple x

6th Oct 2005, 15:29

and also CC should only close the doors if stairs are there. At least at BA we are not alowed to operate any doors if there is no stairs

VC10 Rib22

6th Oct 2005, 16:32

We can cross continents and oceans, climb to 36,000 feet and above, year-on-year create more powerful and efficient powerplants. Yes, the achievements of the aerospace industry are phenomenal. However, for all this, it still grinds me that aircraft manufacturers choose, for financial reasons, not to allow designers to create a safe entry/exit system for their aircraft.

Thus, the onus is on airline and handling agent management to set down agreed procedures to ensure that all staff are trained in accordance with these procedures, and let staff be under no illusion that criminal action will be taken against those responsible for injuring/killing co-workers - the prospect of going to prison might persuade them not to be so reckless.

Surely this is not beyond the abilities of said management? It's not exactly rocket science, is it?

Why doesn't a hostie start a thread on this forum allowing all cabin crew to give examples of scenarios where their lives are being put at risk and what they think could be done to address this issue? CC could even state at what airport such negligence occurs and what conversations took place with the handling agents. Surely this has got to be at the top of your agendas, way above pay, routes, uniforms, ugly pax, etc?

Obviously, individuals can't be named but I leave it up to the discretion of the moderators whether handling company names can. The thread should not be a headhunt, nor should it be about settling old scores - it should be about preventing fellow CC being injured or killed in the future. I think you owe that to the memory of all colleagues who are no longer with you due to falling from aircraft.

I am sure that CC are not all innocent and have caused accidents in the past, through conversation or actions, so I invite handling agents to also state where they believe the problem lies, giving examples where appropriate. To aid balance, they may also name the airlines involved but, again, no individuals, please.

May I ask all posters not to allow what I'm sure could be a very emotive thread from turning into an abusive one? - a point deleted by a moderator is a point not made.

Finally, in the words of that Hill Street Blues Sergeant......."let's be careful out there"

VC10 Rib22

:ok:

SkySista

6th Oct 2005, 16:50

Why can't they have some attachment on the stairs or jetty

Or even a small horizontal bar at mid-door height (similar to the aforementioned 'strap' but solid) that when pushed from inside the a/c will not move, but pushed from outside will swing inwards to allow movement into the cabin. Anyone wanting to get out intentionally would just have to consciously pull it back, but someone falling against it by accident would only be reinforcing it to stay closed.... not foolproof but one little bit of metal may just save a life in hte case of stairs being driven away.

The incident with the AF CC was the first thought in my mind when I saw this thread, some of you may recall I was writing a paper on apron safety; the issue of mobile stairs being moved was one I specifically adressed. On speaking to some other crew it seems it is quite a concern to many CC that one day someone will move their stairs!

Perhaps a move back to aircraft with built-in stairs is needed??

TURIN

6th Oct 2005, 18:59

VC10 Rib22

There is a much more effective means of reporting.

It's called CHIRP and all UK ATCOs, Licensed Aircraft Engineers, Pilots and CC have access to it.

It is completely confidential and it WORKS. Use it, you may save someone's life.

I have heard today, and this is uncorroborated, that the steps were taken away as the door was being closed, the CC member then fell between steps and aircraft, hanging on to the threshold of the doorway on the way down. This probably saved her life, if true.

Just wandering around the airport today I saw several doors left wide open with no steps or platform under them.

I mentioned this to one (overseas operator) CC member and she had opened it herself to let some air in!:\

It is not always the fault of ground staff, CC can be equally guilty.

mmeteesside

6th Oct 2005, 20:38

How about using the same net as is used to keep cargo from moving around.

I don't believe that a single strap/metal will keep anyone from falling out (under or over) whereas a simple plastic net (half way up the door) should do the job? Simple hook on net

mmeteesside

flybywire

6th Oct 2005, 21:05

Why doesn't a hostie start a thread on this forum allowing all cabin crew to give examples of scenarios where their lives are being put at risk and what they think could be done to address this issue? CC could even state at what airport such negligence occurs and what conversations took place with the handling agents. Surely this has got to be at the top of your agendas, way above pay, routes, uniforms, ugly pax, etc?

Absolutely! This is a great idea. It would be a good thread if we want to exchange experiences and ideas.
However I agree with TURIN, to report safety issues CHIRP is the way to go. We already send detailed incident forms to BA but CHIRP sometimes goes beyond what the airline itself can do, as it can investigate and involve all relevant departments.

Built-in airstairs aren't much safer, I have to say. You probably don't fall off the aircraft when closing the door but try getting off the plane with your bag when it is raining - bloody difficult!! :ooh:

FBW:)

Sven Sixtoo

6th Oct 2005, 21:14

FBW

Post the link

This thread details such a stupid set of accidents.

Please PLEASE stop injuring people in this manner

I am desperately depressed by the idea that people on the ground are driving off and injuring CC - does nobody understand their responsibilities?

flybywire

6th Oct 2005, 21:20

www.CHIRP.co.uk

as for the forum here, I will open a new thread. I think it's a good idea.

Eddy

6th Oct 2005, 23:10

Certainly with British Airways, crew are told that both feet must be INSIDE the aircraft when trying to close aircraft doors. This will prevent accidents happening should stairs be removed during the closing of the door.

I'm trying to remember whether this is a fairly recent "notice" that has been issued to crew here but can't be sure. I know it exists though.

mangrnd1

7th Oct 2005, 06:33

the TSC CC was stood on the stairs trying to open the side rail of the stairs when the accident happended, it is still under investigation how things occured but it seems both sides had a part to play, the CC and the ramp agent.

As previously said by someone if you attach something to the stairs to prevent them driving away like a stap to the aircraft, id put all my life's wages on one ramp agent still not bothering and ripping the side of your aircraft off.

There is technology there to prevent this happening again its just not fully available yet and its quite costly, but in this case i wouldt but cost over safety

Eddy

7th Oct 2005, 10:28

TO be frank, we don't need rules and regulations to prevent things like this from happening. We just need people to be particularly cautious when walking out on to a mobile platform some 30+ feet off the ground.

If we all stopped and took our time before jumping out of aircraft doors, accidents like this could be avoided.

its all over now

7th Oct 2005, 10:45

I've worked on many different types of aircrafts, and have always refused to close a door when there are no steps/airbridge by the door. Yes, we are instructed to keep both feet inside the aircraft, but you still have to lean out, often at an awkward angle, to close the door. Can you imagine this type of safety issue being allowed in a factory? A factory worker having to lean out, to perform a task, with a huge drop below? Service doors are the worst, they are so heavy, and the catering trucks have often been moved, leaving the service door wide open with a huge drop below. When catering has finished, there is no need for the door to be open, so it makes sense for the service staff to close the door (as most do, but quite a few don't bother).

I realise the above doesn't stop someone moving the steps before the door is closed. But if steps remain in place until the door is closed, then it's not possible for such an accident to happen.

I can recall one incident when pax were waiting to leave the aircraft. The steps were in place, and the ground staff gave the thumbs up for passengers to disembark. As I was stepping onto the stairs, they started to move. The ground staff had decided to reposition them! (normal at that airline for a cabin crew member to go to the bottom of the stairs as passengers disembarked)

I'm just surprised there aren't more accidents.

Dr Illitout

7th Oct 2005, 11:03

"Simple, before driving away the steps from an open door, make the driver go up and pull the door safety strap across or close the door."

Hotdog. The straps you are refering to are for visual indication only. In the maintenance manual you are specificaly warned that they are not designed to take the weight of a person.
I know that most people on the ramp do not have access to this information but I doubt that any companys proceedures will say that theye are enough.
If, on your return to work you find it writain down any where that it is safe to leave the doors open with only the straps in place, contact your maintenance crews and ask them for the removal and refit proceedures for the straps. The warning is clearly in there. And get the proceedure changed!
In my opinion these straps give everybody a false sense of security and should be removed!

VC10 Rib22 hear, hear! Lets all go home tonight SAFE

Rgds Dr.I.

jammydonut

7th Oct 2005, 11:24

Perhaps some hefty fines from the HSE by taking these cases to court. A few hits with a million or so pounds and maybe the jailing of a few management, all now possible under Health & Safety law, might focus a few minds on sorting the problem out.

ducks fly higher

7th Oct 2005, 11:37

Ok, interloper with a PPL here, who hasn't worked in the industry and therefore probably got something glaringly obviously wrong, but......

Couldn't quite a few of these incidents, or the potential for an incident to occur, be reduced by having a motorised system for closing the door? Pushing a button to drive the door in, even if its only part of the way, would surely be preferable to leaning out to close it? Between that and a strong net across the door when open with no stairs there should surely stop most of these from happening.

PieterPan

7th Oct 2005, 11:38

I think that by setting strict procedures on the removal of stairs, and adhering to them, these ground accidents can be reduced significantly. After all, once airborne, many more (undoubtedly complicated) procedures are keeping air travel safe.

The difference between the situations is that on the ground, there might be a false sense of security allowing staff (ground or CC) to become less cautious.

If there is a simple technical solution to this, that is not too expensive to implement, it should be investigated. Any additional barrier to such an incident will be welcome.

For example:
- Airbridge drives up to plane, aligns properly and parks.
- Shift gear to park. Bridge senses it is parked to the plane, and locks the transmission.
- Bridge is being used.
- When everyone is done, CC (on the top of the bridge) pushes a button that the bridge can be released. -> transmission is unlocked.

Obviously any system can be used improperly, and therefore fail. But it might reduce the chance of an accident.

Hope that she recovers fully soon.

Regards,
PieterPan

TURIN

7th Oct 2005, 13:16

ducks fly higher

Several passenger aircraft already have the system you describe, B767 and L1011 Tristar to name two.

Manufacturers have their reasons for designing the aircraft systems the way they do. Not always in the interests of safety. B737 overwing emergency exits being a typical example of cost before safety.:*

VC10 Rib22

7th Oct 2005, 15:19

TURIN,

I'm not too sure that the poor girl was thinking that CHIRP works as she was suffering on the apron. All I am trying to do is create something which can improve the safety of all CC. The fact this would be achieved by embarrassing negligent companies on pprune is useful for three reasons: firstly, I'm sure the more coverage given to these accidents would encourage image-conscious companies to act, before shareholders do. There are thousands of ppruners who are not directly involved in aviation, so would not know anything about CHIRP and, therefore, might miss out on information pertaining to CC falling out of a/c.

Secondly, pprune allows accidents to be publicised immediately and will not allow dust to settle, as it naturally does with any drawn-out investigation such as CHIRP. I appreciate, of course, that CHIRP will be able to give a more accurate and in-depth account of an accident, but it is unlikely to draw a different conclusion from any posting as to who is responsible (due to there being very little scope for someone being to blame - it's either the CC or the handling agent). Any inaccurate postings can be corrected should any investigation disagree with them.

Thirdly, CHIRP is a uk registered Trust and offers no protection to CC working for companies for whom English law holds no jurisdiction. I'd like to think it is the safety of all CC worldwide that we are interested in and not just those protected by English law.

FBW,

Thank you for choosing to take this further. I think it only fair that someone who is actually CC does so, thus consider the baton passed. Good luck! - 30 feet above the ground, you all need it.

VC10 Rib22

:ok:

PAXboy

7th Oct 2005, 15:32

Pax here. ducks My guess is the weight of the motor is the reason. The Tristar door was lifeted in and upwards into the ceiling cavity of the cabin. I recall watching it on occasions and thinking that it must be a strong motor to do that.

When catering has finished, there is no need for the door to be open, so it makes sense for the service staff to close the door (as most do, but quite a few don't bother). I wonder if the catering staff are nervous about closing the door - thinking that if they do not do it correctly, they will get blamed for damaging it or causing a delay if the a/c fails to pressurise etc.?

It might be a case of "I'll save time by not running up to the top again and closing the door" or it might be, "I'll save myself getting into trouble" The debate will be around what their operating procedures are.

Having worked in telecommunications and IT for 25 years, I can but repeat I do not agree with outsourcing.

Maude Charlee

7th Oct 2005, 16:40

It's a great pity to see yet another accident of a well-publicised and entirely avoidable nature. Some people never learn, whether CC or ramp crew.

Rush, rush, rush is the name of the game these days, and it comes as no surprise that people get hurt. Ironically, it is more often than not the CC and flight crews that are in a hurry (after all, everybody thinks ramp crew are stupid and lazy :rolleyes: ), and thereby create a culture which will continue to foster accidents as they pressure the ramp crews and each other into rushing to save a precious minute here or there.

Whilst many accidents are caused by ramp crews failing to follow their company's procedures, many more (as TURIN has alluded to), are the fault of CC failing to adhere to their procedures. There is still a certain DUB based operator who have their doors open and CC hanging out of them as soon as the a/c stops, and certainly long before any steps get near the a/c door. There are many more operators similarly guilty of opening doors without stairs, and in particular service doors.

Everybody has to look out for themselves and each other. Stop rushing, apply some common sense about the what the real important issues are and try to stay safe. :ok:

AUTOGLIDE

7th Oct 2005, 18:09

At MAN it is not permissable to have an open door, even with the strap, unless there are steps, a jetty, or a catering truck attached. If you do leave a door open you're likely to get a visit from Ground Ops (even if stinking hot and the APU & Packs aren't running). Without trying to second guess what occured in this horrible incident, normally the stair rail would be pulled back, the door closed and then the steps towed off.

Dr Illitout

7th Oct 2005, 18:31

AUTOGLIDE, it might not be permissable at Manchester but it happens all the time.
A friend of mine went onto an aircraft that was transiting through MAN. Not only did he find the mid galley doors open without steps underneath. But passengers standing at the open doors and children playing "chase" in the same area!
It beggers belief that anybody thinks that an open doorway 30ft above concrete is safe .

Rgds DrI

TURIN

7th Oct 2005, 18:57

I'm not too sure that the poor girl was thinking that CHIRP works as she was suffering on the apron.

When was the last time an incident relating to this was reported to CHIRP?

The point I was trying to make was that if CHIRP had been used to highlight the problems with open doors/ground equipment, then maybe this lady would not be in the state she is now. We will never know.:(

I am as guilty as the next man. I have reported this issue to the MAN authorities many times. They have pontificated on this matter for years and not had the guts to issue fines on a regular basis to offenders.:mad: Maybe I should have CHIRPED it!!

CGTSN

7th Oct 2005, 19:18

This accident is true :

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2133439#post2133439

And she wasn't in a rush like some of you thought. The inbound crew that some of my colleagues met, told that there was a misunderstanding between CC and the ground rep.

http://www.flightattendants.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/132680/an/0/page/0#132680

"She had put one foot on the stairs to close the door and told the ground handler to wait....but he understood that it was ok for him to pull away the stairs.As she was closing the door the stairs were pulled out from under her and she fell."

Hope that she will recover quickly.

BlackWhite

7th Oct 2005, 19:44

I am somewhat suprised that The Moderator has already apportioned blame to a very unfortunate incident which is now the subject of at least three investigations (HSE, MAN operator and the handling agent).

In saying "Ground Handling at many UK airports has (in my view) deteriorated over the past 5 years, not helped by ever decreasing turnaround times and equipment that is being used well past its' sell-by date. I'm saddened, but not surprised when people are hurt: I'm surprised that it doesn't happen more often!" the moderator has already speculated on the outcome which, in my view, is a sad reflection on the credibility of this site.

RatherBeFlying

7th Oct 2005, 19:56

Always when opening door from inside, fall protection harness must be worn until CC inspection has confirmed steps or bridge securely in place.
When door opened, steps or bridge must not be moved until barrier consisting of nylon strap mesh secured inside a/c passage leading to door. Placards on outside fuselage by door in all applicable languages that failure to secure barrier before removing steps or bridge from open door will be prosecuted as criminal negligence.
Placards in door passage that nobody passes barrier without fall safety harness unless steps or bridge secure.

TightSlot

7th Oct 2005, 20:06

Welcome BlackWhite, on the occasion of your first post on PPRuNe.

Nope - I've been quite careful not to specifically apportion blame, and have taken care with the wording. Please read the words with the same diligence. You're free to disagree, or disapprove, and even to draw personal conclusions about the credibility of PPRuNe. In the event that you determine that this website no longer offers you anything useful, you are also free to take your custom elsewhere. :uhoh:

BlackWhite

7th Oct 2005, 20:19

Tight Slot, my inference that you had apparently apportioned blame was based on the criticism of ground handling safety standards without making any other sweeping comments on the safety standards of other airport sectors for example airport operators or, dare I say it, cabin crew - visiting or resident.

Incidentally I would be interested to know the basis of your assumption that ground handling safety standards have fallen - I think you will find statistically that the reverse to be the case despite ever increasing - and valuable - regulations and legislation.

TightSlot

7th Oct 2005, 20:22

Whatever - Clearly my perception is faulty - Back on topic now please?

7th Oct 2005, 20:32

Here is another example of a similar occurrence:

Aviation Occurrence Report - Injuries to Person While Deplaning (http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/reports/air/1999/a99a0046/a99a0046.asp)

CBAAC 0174 - Mobile Aircraft Passenger Stands (http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/commerce/circulars/AC0174.htm)

TCX G-FCLH

7th Oct 2005, 23:32

She is has a broken arm, and broken ankle. The ramp agent has been suspended, basically for breaking every training rule he had been given.

TCX G-FCLH

angels

8th Oct 2005, 14:23

Thanks for the update TCX I have just stumbled upon this thread and -- as SLF -- was absolutely astounded at the apparent lack of health and safety regs in this area.

And then I thought, but what about the poor girl? Hope she has a speedy recovery and gets an 'ambulance-chaser' type lawyer onto the people that nearly cost her her life.

TURIN

8th Oct 2005, 21:59

Oh, there are pages full of H&S regs Angels.

It's just that many choose to ignore them.:mad:

flapsforty

8th Oct 2005, 22:39

For the past 5 years I have daily closed the frwrd service door on various types of 737s without there being either steps or a catering truck in place. They are damned heavy and the only way for me to close it is to hike up the skirt, brace myself with one leg halfway up the door frame and then pull for all I'm worth.
:uhoh:
Is it clever? No.
Is it safe? No.
Is it against company rules? No.
Do I do it because I am so brainwashed about getting away on-time that before reading this thread I have never even considered an alternative?
Yes!!

I have no ready answers here, but many things I wonder about. Mainly if it is a question of money?

Before the loco's, we had well trained ground staff employed by our own company. They felt responsible and had pride in their job and the company.
These days, most ground handling has been outsourced. To the lowest bidder. Who are cheap for a reason and whose employees care not one whit about what aircraft they are servicing.
Before the loco's, we had turnaround times that allowed both the flight crews and the ground crews to do a thorough and safe job.
Now we have to match the loco's turnaround times more and more, so the pressure is on pilots, FAs, ground handlers and everyone else involved in the whole sordid mess. Despite everybody's best intentions, attention to detail and thereby safety, WILL suffer when you are all rushing.
Before the loco's, being an FA was an attractive job thanks to the travel, the high standard hotels and the class of people one associated with. Because of the glam factor, the job attracted enough people so companies could be picky and hire for both brains and education.
Now flying is for everybody, and so is being an FA. At my own company, educational requirements for FAs have been drastically lowered, and it shows.
When I recently paxed with a certain loco the FAs couldn't have been kinder or more service minded, but their English PA was so heavily accented that even I, knowing what they were on about, coudn't make out most of what they were saying.:ooh:

So for me, the reasons are somewhere here:
*People wanting to fly for as little as possible (and who can blame them?)
*Companies giving the travelling public what they want by lowering the cost of the operation to breaking point in their attempt at staying aloft in a competitive business (yes the managers are certainly to blame for on the one hand pushing the operation to the extreme limits while at the same time covering their sagging backsides with shoving regulations down people's throats which everybody knows are impossible to follow but which look good on paper)
* Regulatory authorities being too understaffed and underfunded to be able & willing to take significant action against the many inherently unsafe practices that are rife in our industry.

By allowing ourselves to be rushed, to work in ways that are dangerous because we think that is the only way to keep our companies aloft/to keep our jobs, we ourselves are greatly responsible for these happenings.

I have no idea how to change this, apart from once again telling myself that I will not be rushed by anything or anybody when at work.
And trying to remember my resolution next time someone is trying to push me to get away on time.

:ouch:

RatherBeFlying

9th Oct 2005, 12:05

F40,

How about girth hitching a length of nylon webbing to the door handle?

You can put a knot in the other end and hang it on a clip on the same side of the door passage as the hinge.

This will allow you to pull the door to a (near) closed position from well inside without having to lean out.

Once the door is close to the closed position, you can then secure it with much less fall exposure.

Airportgeek

11th Oct 2005, 13:14

I noticed this post last Thursday night not knowing that I'd find out this AM that the CC is a very dear friend of ours.

Her Husband is currently with her in MAN, her parents are looking after the kids back home.

She will have a long recovery ahead once she's back in Canada.

Flip Flop Flyer

11th Oct 2005, 17:10

Same shyte happened to me last night, departing a fairly big Scandihoovian airport where ground handling is provided by our own staff. Our manual is quite clear in this respect; stairs are not to be removed without approval by crew.

As it was, we were loaded and ready to go and I had closed the cargo door. I poked my head into the cockpit asking if we were clear to close the L1, but the skipper was not quite there yet. I stood outside the cockpit (B757) and patiently waited until the flyboys reached that page in the book which would allow us to close the door, no rush. However, as I'm stood there I see the stairs slowly move away, quite to my disbelief. It must be added here that this particular station usually sets very high standards. I went to the door and "Oi'd" the handlers, who duly pushed the stairs back. However, I did go downstairs and gave the loading supervisor a friendly talking to. No need to raise voice or anything, but he was told in no uncertain terms that a reproduction of that incident on his part would lead me to reach for 'puter and email! He got the message.

PS
At most stations we always close the door after stairs have been removed. I personally have no problems physically manhandling a door from the inside, but appreciate that people sporting less mass and, dare I say it, muscles may have more of a problem. This begs the question whether (narrowbody Boeing) aircraft door are incorrectly designed if a petite female CC cannot safely close them, or whether CC should demonstrate the physical ability to safely close the door.
PS
In our outfit we've lost a FE owing to stairs being taken away without approval, and we've had another 2 sustaining serious injuries in falls from aircraft. We take this pretty serious, and tend to come down hard on those who fail to grasp that safety of our crews is more important than an additional 2 minute coffee break!