MANCHESTER

[cessna l plate]

Here's a good one for rumours.

I've just been interviewed for a survey my a bloke from the DfT. The reason, aparently, is because I live under the flightpath of 24R at MAN.

He tells me that MAN have just had planning permission approved for a 4th terminal, which will be built where the Faireys apron (maintenence) is now.

And also that they have applied to build a 3rd runway. What was interesting about this is that according to this bloke it has something to do with the old dissused runway, now part of a taxiway, but a hangover from the triangulation days of the war.

As I work at MAN I find this surprising as I have not heard a peep about any of this from the usual sources. Anybosy know any more???

[Manc]

I've seen plans before to extend the terminal buildings in stages starting with a satellite opposite T2 and ending with the western apron being completely enclosed.

A new runway though seems a bit of a non-starter - I cannot see where you'd put it.

[captain kid]

The western maintenance hangers are on on a ten year lease and now some 8 years into the lease, i heard that they wanted to demolish the hangers and build a 3rd runway parrallel to the M56?

[Adola69]

The old 'London Airways' hangar won't be missed, as it's stood idle for half its life!!
However I won't be holding my breath on any of the reported development, as other rumours heard recently tell of a tale of very little opportunity for major expansion due to limited funds.
( W.H. Smith & Boots haven't coughed up enough on the retailing side probably!!)
'Growing the business' - yeh right, - I don't think that's been heard of for a while at Manchester, ever since Gill Thompson left!

:mad:

[G-CPTN]

http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/news/s/12/12867_third_runway_may_be_built.html
Third runway may be built (2002)
PLANS for a fourth terminal and a third runway at Manchester Airport have been unveiled.

http://www.georgeosborne.co.uk/record.jsp?type=news&ID=9
Manchester Airport
27 January 2004
The Government's hidden plans for a massive increase in noise and pollution.

I’m afraid to report that Knustford has just fallen for one of the oldest political tricks in the book – use a red herring to distract people’s attention from your real plans. The red herring is the Government’s talk of a third runway at Manchester Airport, and their real plans are for a massive increase in noise and pollution in the skies over Knutsford. Let me explain.

In 2002 the Government announced that it was thinking about which airports in Britain could expand over the next thirty years. A great big consultation document was produced with all sorts of facts and figures about how millions more people were going to using airplanes in the years to come, and Britain’s airports were not big enough to cope. One of the solutions, they suggested, was a third runway at Manchester Airport. You could almost hear the cry of protest go up in King Street!

For the people of Knutsford, still reeling from the impact on the second runway, it was like a red rag to a bull. Dozens of people wrote to me saying that a third runway would make the noise problem unbearable, increase pollution and swallow up acres of Cheshire countryside. “There must be no third runway”, they demanded, and I took up their fight. I made it clear to the Government that their plans were completely unacceptable and that I would do everything to stop them.

Then, just before this Christmas, the Government announced that it had made a decision. There would be an extra runway at Stansted, possibly an extra runway at Heathrow, but no third runway at Manchester. To use their precise words, they said: “we do not anticipate major runway capacity constraints at Manchester before 2030”. Again, the sigh of relief in King Street was audible. “The town has been saved”, we all exclaimed. “We can relax now”. How wrong we were.

For, now that I’ve thought about it for a couple of weeks, I realise that it was highly unlikely that they were ever going to say ‘yes’ to a third runway. Indeed, Manchester Airport themselves had never asked for one to even be considered. They were happy with the two existing runways, and had no money or need to build a third one. The Government had raised the fear of a third runway only so they could then knock it down. In other words, it was a red herring and it succeeded in distracting our attention from their real plans.

These plans are buried away on page 85 of the Government document called ‘The Future of Air Transport’, which was published last month. They reveal that the Government is happy to see the number of passengers rise from 19 million a year to more than 50 million a year – in other words, a massive increase of more than 150 per cent. That means probably a whole new terminal at the Airport and many many more planes in the skies above Knutsford.

Even the Government admit in their plans that this would have a huge impact on noise and the local environment. They say “we recognise that the location of Manchester Airport already causes large numbers of people to be exposed to aircraft noise nuisance”. On their latest figures, 45,000 people live in area where noise from the airport exceeds 57 decibels. That would rise to 70,000 people if this huge expansion goes ahead. They admit too that air quality would deteriorate and that emissions of nitrogen dioxide would have to be carefully monitored.
However, in the Government’s words, “we do not believe, on balance, that these impacts are so severe that constraints should be imposed on the development of the airport”. In other words, the airport has a carte blanche to more than double in size regardless of the impact on local people of noise and pollution.

I strongly disagree with the Government. I want Manchester Airport to be a success. Many people I represent work at the Airport. I want it to go on being a magnet for jobs and investment that benefits the whole region. But I firmly believe that Airport will only be a success with the support of the local community, and that includes the people of Knutsford. Any expansion of the Airport must, in my view, be accompanied by tough measures to reduce noise and pollution. For example, older, noisier and dirtier planes should be banned. Planes that don’t stick to agreed flight paths must be heavily fined. No additional flight paths, especially the so-called Green Route over the town, should be opened up. Proper compensation should be paid. The rights of local people must be respected. Only then will Manchester Airport have a sustainable and successful future.

[Beausoleil]

"Any expansion of the Airport must, in my view, be accompanied by tough measures to reduce noise and pollution."

The same good commuters of Knutsford used to make my life a misery speeding into work in Manchester along Wilmslow Road, and complained endlessly about speed cameras to make them stick to the limits. And I'm sure they never used the airport at all.

I don't have a lot of sympathy.

[ETOPS]

A year or so ago I was shown some outline plans of how MAN might look in 30 years time. These were purely speculative but included various possible terminals and runways. All these configurations had their advantages and disadvantages ( not least the public outcry/protests) at more development. One idea was to build a runway along the line of the old 10/28. This would start near the threshold of 24L and continue west through the area of the engine test bay towards the M56 motorway. A terminal would be sited where the current maintenance base is. Another terminal site would be to the south of 24L alongside the "remote" fire station.
Looks like one of these might come to fruition?

[bigbusdriver06]

There's some evidence of future plans on the south side. The railway siding is still there from Runway 2 and there is a huge unnecessary roundabout south of the road tunnel, apparently for "traffic-calming", yeah right.....

Good luck, Manchester Airport. Having got this far I can see little need to restrict growth.

[Cpt. Chaos]

Here's one for thought that is being bounced around the local area.

When BAe Woodford finally goes which is deemed to be soon, Manchester are going to buy it, move most of the cargo or what it can and the GA flights to Woodford and where the cargo is now turn that to another terminal with a new rumway running alongside the M56.

Just a rumour of course.
:mad:

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

I was under the impression that
when an aircraft used Woodford ILS that then reduced by Manchester by the same number of movements, due to it taking Manchesters airspace

And I have also heard that some equipment to do with Nimrod wing jigs has just been delivered so may not be closing quite as quick as you think

But who knows

G-I-B

[Dr Illitout]

Terminal four has been on the cards for years! It's position keeps changing though, I thought it was going over the other side of the second runway. As they are going to move the aviation viewing park over to the far side of runway 2 some time. Perhaps the AVP is the site of T4?. If they knock down the run pen, NEA ,B.A., Monarch and MYT's hangars they will have a huge site. After all what do they need hangars for at an airport?;)

Rgds Dr.I.

[smythy]

The airport archivist visited the Yorkshire Air Society on Sunday and told us that unconfirmably Manchester were possibly building or extending the terminal capacitys. However to my knowlage nothing much was talked about a new runway. As someone has said this expansion has been on the cards for a while.

He also told us that the viewing park and cargo hangers were to move to allow for terminal expansion and that the based Concorde's rudder has been damaged by strong winds some months ago.

[ManchesterMan]

Manchester T4

(Nearly) All will be revealed..........

[Cpt. Chaos]

Yes but when ManchesterMan? :confused:

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

later next month maybe???

G-I-B

[Adola69]

Oh no, not another Terminal!! That'll mean the travelators in the 'Blue Tube' will never work, - they'll not have enough money to repair them.:{

[AUTOGLIDE]

It would seem rather strange to knock down three hangars that are only about 10 years old (plus the Citiexpress hangar too?). Unless MYT have decided to relocate to another airport and Monarch decide to stop their very busy business of repairing & maintaining a hell of a lot of aircraft in their hangar they will have to be rebuilt anyway, and if I remember right the Monarch hangar alone was about £7,000,000 to build last time, if the huge MYT/SR Technic hangar was rebuilt I doubt the MAPLC could afford it. It would also show a stupid level of forethought by allowing them to be built in the first place.
It would also mean the new terminal being built right next to the the fuel farm, and I somehow can't see that, maybe that's moving too.

[Dr Illitout]

The Concorde had its rudder gag blown out and the rudder was forced hard over. There was no visible damage. Don't forget the rudders were jettisonable anyway!!!!!!!:D

Rgds Dr.I.

[Adola69]

Would that have been be jetisoned AFTER a successful landing , or before the inevitable crash??

Only joking, I know it made few landings, without too much problem, with only half a rudder during its its flying days.

:ugh:

a69.

[cbt_bear_MAN]

Have United shown some interest in operating from Manchester? It says on another airliners forum that UA bigwigs may have visited Ringway this week....

[Mouser]

Anyone know when GB AIRWAYS second A320 arrives at Manchester, it's sometime this month.

[cbt_bear_MAN]

Well it must be soon as services to Marrakesh, Lanzarote, Gran Canaria and daily Tenerife start in three weeks. I hear Rhodes and Rome may be on the agenda for next sumner, too.

[EGCC]

Yeh the next GB Airways A320 at MAN is on its way very soon. My mate has almost finished his CC training with them ready for the increase in flights.

[King Pong]

Small photo at http://www.manchesteronline.co.uk/men/news/s/177/177124_oops_the_500000_jet_prang_.html

IT is the parking prang that will cost more than £½ million.

Ground staff reversing a passenger jet at Manchester Airport accidentally struck an aircraft hangar causing a long delay for more than 300 passengers - and a six-figure bill for holiday firm Thomas Cook.

The rudder on the Airbus 330 was twisted in the prang during a routine maintenance check by engineers.



Thomas Cook was immediately forced to cancel its scheduled flight to Cuba and scour airports around the world for a replacement aircraft big enough to take the 333 disappointed passengers.

After a frantic search, the only available stand-in plane was found - a Boeing 747 in Madrid.

It cost Thomas Cook £200,000 to charter the plane from a firm called Air Pullmantur and then to fly it from Spain to Manchester.

Meanwhile, the firm also had to pay an estimated £150,000 to fly a new rudder to Manchester in a Hercules cargo plane from the Airbus factory in Toulouse, France.

Repairing the damage is expected to cost an additional £200,000. And then there was the expense of arranging hotels for the 333 stranded passengers and supplying them with meal vouchers - another bill of around £25,000.

As the holidaymakers left Manchester Airport for Cayo Coco 30 hours late, Thomas Cook bosses were said to be "furious" at the sky-high cost of the minor crash.

It is understood it occurred while the aircraft was being moved on the ground by staff working for Monarch Aircraft Engineering.

Grandfather Kaz Janski, a holidaymaker from Huddersfield, was with a family of five who paid £4,000 for their trip.

Shortly before he finally boarded the replacement plane for the 10-hour flight, he said: "We were already in the departure lounge when we were eventually told we would be spending the night in Manchester."

A Thomas Cook spokesman said: "We did everything we could to help our passengers following the delay caused by this situation."

A spokesman for Monarch Aircraft Engineering said: "We can confirm that damage was caused to an aircraft while it was being manoeuvred. An investigation has been launched."

[airhumberside]

I have read rumours on other sites of Delta to be announcing MAN-JFK next week (along with ATL-EDI) and they seem to be coming from more than one person

[GrahamK]

I understand DL may be announcing MAN-JFK on Tuesday

[Jet A1]

The 2nd GB A320 arrives on 29th late on and starts flying on the 30th with the start of the winter timetable.

[Playamar2]

Seems like the airport will be very quiet this winter with a number of services terminating and other with reduced frequency.
Stopping for the winter at least are:
Maersk to Copenhagen
Monarch to Madrid
Air Berlin to Dusseldorf
Air Berlin to Berlin
Jet2 to Nice
Btitish London Airways too numerous to list

Reduced services by Jet2 to Alicante and Faro. Although to be fair to Jet2 there will be flights to ski destinations such as Geneva and Chambery.There may well be other services that I haven't noticed like the Air Canada but thats generally summer only.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

On a more positive note
Add extra SkyEurope to Saltzburg ( I think)
Flybe extra SOU flight and then from Jan/Feb EXT and BHD
Aer Arann to IOM
Plus Probably
Etihad and extra Qatar

G-I-B

[petitfromage]

The long rumoured return of Cathay pax services to be MAN will be announced v v soon.

HKG - MAN with a 75min stop in Moscow.
The A340 will operate the route.

Some final "issues" being dealt with at the Moscow end.

Standby

[gayrugbybloke]

Noone in the know seems to know anything about this Cathay service proposal! The airline has been applying for slots for years, but dont seem any nearer starting a service.

What evidence do you have for this new information?

[zed3]

Playamar2..... Air Berlin stopped the DUS-MAN service a while ago already .

[gayrugbybloke]

But are to introuduce Man STN twice daily I believe.

[ManchesterMan]

Gayrugbyblahblahblah.....

AirBerlin MAN-STN

Sounds like a 'feeder' service to me!

Expect a pull-out from the two
remaining direct services - soon ?

MM

[rampman]

Cathay start in march 3 times a week with a stop in moscow using A343 arriving 0815 departing 1000

:ok: rampman

[spharrison]

Any news on flybe other routes if any and GB if it still 3 base next year and what new routes if any.

[MancRy]

GB are not basing a 3rd aircraft at MAN until 2007. Therefore, it maybe that we do not see any new routes...unfortunately. DBV is back next summer after a winter break and it will be interesting to see whether the canary island flights continue for the summer, i would imagine they will. Should this be the case there will be little scope to expand our route network from MAN due to having just the 2 aircraft. It's a shame really because several of BACX dropped routes would fit nicely into GB's network as i have always said. However, considering they have just been at MAN for little over 6 months the current rate of expansion has been good. GB is finding it tough competing against LS, WW and MON in particular but we are on top of the game and offer a far superior service.
Yes ...... i am an employee!:p

[Vuelo]

Dubrovnil hasn't exactly been setting any records! The other services are doing very well. GB would do well to tap in to the summer Greek market. Rhodes, Heraklion, Corfu and Zante would all be good options for summer next year.....get in there before ZB does...!!

Apparently ZB are de to announce some new services from MAN soon.....my money's on Rimini and Venice.

[Jet A1]

A 73% load factor for a brand new route aint too bad though.

Interesting to point out to ye lot that within the GB network - out the top 3 routes MAN had two of them. (LGW-FNC was busiest)

A 93% load factor on the PFO and low 90's for the AGP and TFS routes.

[MancRy]

Yeah heard about MAN having two top routes out of three within the network. DBV has been rather difficult by all accounts this year (funny destination choice if you ask me) but nevertheless it will be back next year. Was speaking to John Patterson (MD) the other week and it was then he said that it was tough at MAN and that he wanted GB to fly from MAN a few years ago when there was little LCC activity at MAN. The decision to operate mainly longer routes has helped though and in that respect has kept apace with MON and in front of EZY and LS etc. One challenge for MAN in respect of GB services is to increase Club Europe figures. I usually reply to the "theres no high yield from MAN" argument sayin there is but i see this as being a big challenge on leisure routes which are GB's bread and butter. That said, there are many northerners out there that are as tight as a ducks ar*se all year but who will splash out on holidays.

I don\'t see the Greek Islands bein ready quite ready for scheduled flights from MAN. Property ownership there is no where near that in Spain, Portugal or the canaries. In terms of GB i can see Faro being a new destination. I personally believe also that some leisure/business routes could be attempted. For example, FCO and BCN. FCO has been dropped by BACX and BCN is only operated by MON since WW and IB dropped the route. I used to be a travel agent and getting a BCN flight was very difficult.

[Vuelo]

Worth bearing in mind also is the amount of interlining traffic from GB services on to other BA ervices at MAN. PFP - OSL, AGP - IOM, TFS - JFK, AGP - GLA/ABZ/BHD, MLA - JFK have all been trends noted, no doubt. A couple of times in the last month there have been significant transfer pax coming in on the BA JFK connecting on to a GB Malaga.

[HOVIS]

Youre right. GB arnot basing 3 planes at Man.

It's 4!

And it will be 6 by 2007.:ok:

[Vuelo]

6!! Are you sure about that?!

[MancRy]

I think i have heard the figure being four but after the second aircraft arrives on saturday, there wont be a third until 2007. All could change though.
Yes GB have been feeding BA's JFK thus i would imagine making it even more profitable. :p BA still blind to the fact that this could happen on other long haul routes should this wish to start any.:O

[AlexWhitaker]

Hi

Does anyone know which BA flights are moving to T1 in November and why?

Thanks

[Railgun]

None it is just T3 been intergrated into T1 as the ownership agreement is up.

[phil_2405]

I believe T3 is too remain, it is not being intergrated into T1

[MancRy]

I hope T3 is to remain. So what if it is "attached" to terminal 1. It is infact, in my view, a terminal in it's own right. How confusing would an enlarged T1 be with another check in area and a separate immigration channel.

[Vuelo]

This T3 stuff is all nonsense! As if an international airport would lose a termial! Wake up!!

[pwalhx]

Terminal 1/3 as they are now at one time were called 1a and 1b but was changed as people found it confusing.

Then to change it back would seem stupid.

[MancRy]

They should keep it as T3 and like Vuelo says, why would MAN want to lose 3 terminal status. It sounds stupid, but 3 terminals sounds better than 2!!!

[Hood]

bmi are in the frame to move baby operations from terminal 1 to terminal 3 and currently looking at A330 long haul as well.

[Vuelo]

I really cant see BA putting up with sharing 'their' terminal with a major competitors budget arm!! Believe it when I see it...

[Railgun]

I really cant see BA putting up with sharing 'their' terminal with a major competitors budget arm!! Believe it when I see it...

It is no longer BA's terminal the lease is now up. Rumor has it that nouthing is signed with BMI or BMI baby yet and if anything happens then it will not be untill summer.

One problem for there long haul could be the fact T3 only has 2 stands that will fit A330's on all the others will only fit up to 767's on.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Obvious BA never wanted anything more than European services then

G-I-B

[ManchesterMan]

Re: T3 BA

I think you will find that the whole point of giving
T3 over to BA was for BA to expand their long-haul
ops from Manchester - which has not happened.
So now that BA mainline is contracting its european
network from Man in favour of european Sun destin
-ations and the 'deal' is up its fair game
for those that need the space to move into.
We might be moving to a situation where BA is no-
longer the 'Sacred Cow' at Manchester.

It is at LHR and will continue to be ie:T5

MM

[Railgun]

So now that BA mainline is contracting its european network from Man

Last time i checked the only mainline route from Man was not european it was a domestic route? BACx are contracting everywhere except Bristol. They have now pulled the BHX-VIE and BHX-FCO routes.

[ManchesterMan]

Railgun

You see BAcx - I see BA.

MM

[Vuelo]

BMI, AA and BA just wont all fit at T3....


BA JFK, AA BOS, AA ORD, BD ORD, BD BGI/LAS/UVF = needs more stands than there are at T3!

[Caslance]

There are many more than 5 stands on T3....... :rolleyes:

[VHF FLYER]

they're not widebody stands though

[Scottie Dog]

I think the point they were making is that you would not get all the wide-bodies onto T3 at the same time. The is no disagreement that T3 has more than 5 stands, but how many of the International stands - those on the BAMA apron - can take a 767 or larger?

Scottie Dog

ps - sorry VHF Flyer just seen your previous response.

[Vuelo]

'Emirates Mulls Third Daily Dubai Service' was the headline in tonights Manchester Evening News.... am sure that probably means they are going to start one!

[VHF FLYER]

with no other qualification than what I've seen from the BA lounge at T3 I would guess there are 3 widebody stands on the BAMA side since there is often a BA and 2x AA 767s parked there at the same time. On the 'old domestic' side of T3 there are probably 2 wb stands so five altogether - so really it wouldn't work if BMI joined them fully (don't forget their domestic flights already use T3) .
I do feel sorry for MAPLC since they designed and funded this for BA on the basis of them operating 737 or equiv aircraft as they did at the time. Since BA have effectively 'lost it' at MAN they are literally a waste of space. A lot of top class infrastructure is cluttered up with Embraer jets and airbridges cannot be used and go to waste, and not to mention the waste of precious take off slots that BA take with half empty 50 seaters.
BA's business model is not and has never been suited to the Manchester market if you ask me - now evidenced by declining BA passenger numbers against a backdrop of increasing passenger numbers overall.

[Caslance]

B757 can use almost all of the T3 stands, with the exception of those across the front of the T1 building, but they're not wide-bodied aircraft as such.

I've seen B767s of both BA and, on occasion, AA parked on stands 42-44, while stands 52-54 are regularly used for B767 and have been used for A300, A330, B747 and B777.

I'm also fairly sure that stand 49 could be pressed into service for a wide-bodied type so long as the stands to either side were empty.

That gives 6 or 7 stands that can be used for wide-bodied aircraft, with several other stands suitable for B757.

Like I said, many more than 5.

[Railgun]

You have never seen AA parked on 42-43 as these are domestic only stands,they can take a 767 but no more, 44 is a 777/747 stand, 47 is a 757 stand at most as is 48, 49 can take no more than a 767, 50 is a RJ only one (fixed bridge), no bridge on 51 (if i remember right), 52 is a fixed position bridge (if i remember right) 53 is 757/767 as is 54 and 55 is a 77/747 capable stand.

BMi are hardly in MAN for the long term are they, once they get a few LHR slots they will cut and run. MAPLC are working on a false economy if they believe they will not.

[Caslance]

I have seen an AA B767 parked on 43.

There was a BA B757 on 44 at the same time.

I was there whereas you, Sir, clearly were not.

[Railgun]

Well 42 and 43 have no access to imigration so quite why they were parked there is anyone guess. Must have coached the pax round to the other side. 44/7/8 are the only stands that can be used for domestic and international arrivals and departures.

[Vuelo]

Lets not forget that T3 along with T2 is the only terminal that can be extended beyond gate 55. Arent Alpha moving from their site and the buildings due for demolition? You could easily fit three or four mre widebody stand on the end wihtout reaching the pub.

I understand MA are drawing up plans for extending the arrivals hall and baggage reclaim area at T3...anyone know anything?

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

The plan I had heard was that the end of T3 was to wrap around giving aprking on both sides of the pier

G-I-B

[Caslance]

44/7/8 are the only stands that can be used for domestic and international arrivals and departures.AA and Finnair use stands 51-53 on a daily basis.

Are these two airlines running domestic services?

Emirates almost always used 54 when they still ran from T3, too. So far as I am aware Dubai is not part of the UK. :}

[chiglet]

GerbilAir are using 48/49...but that's a "Franchise" :*
watp,iktch

[MancRy]

We (GB) have been using stand 54 in recent days aswell. We have two aircraft now and with similar flight times, need two stands.

[Railgun]

AA and Finnair use stands 51-53 on a daily basis. Are these two airlines running domestic services? Emirates almost always used 54 when they still ran from T3, too. So far as I am aware Dubai is not part of the UK.


If you took time to read my post then you would notice that i stated 44,47,48 are the only stands that can be used for domestic and international arrivals and departures. IE a international flight arrival on 44 then depart from 44 as a domestic one due to the terminal layout.

Also at last check 49-55 were all european and international stands only unless busing to the other side.

Finnair use 48 most days and american almost daily only use 53/54 only changing if there is a problem with a bridge or a aircraft still onstand. They never use 51 at any time as it has no air bridge.

[ManchesterMan]

Oh look theres a funny shaped tree over there ...can you see
it - the one with the two huge branches that appear to be
making a kind of 'V' shape......can you see it......hey you.....
dont turn your back on me I'm talking to you!!..........

[GrahamK]

Seen the Emirates 777-300ER using 30/31 the other day...
BMI will end up sending the 330s down to LHR so it doesnt matter

[cbt_bear_MAN]

All that needs to be done is re-time the BD services, which wouldnt be a masive problem, that way, they could all fit at T3.

The AY service could go remote, as could the SN service, this freeing up stand 48 and 50. The AA 757 could fit on to 48, thus allowing a BD 330 on to 54 or 55. The other BD 330 could then be re-timed to arrive on to gate 49 as the BA JFK leaves. Simple!!

People really ought to get over this snobbery of remote parking. Manchester Airport has buses and steps...USE THEM FOR ANYTHING SMALLER THAN A 757!!

[spharrison]

So next year Domestic are showing big increase.

Aer Arann Isle of Man Three time Daily

Air Berlin Stansted Twice Daily

Flybe Belfast Four time Daily

Exeter Twice Daily

And Southampton extra Daily Flight

And on the card may be

Jersey and Norwich

Long shot

Biringham and Newcastle

So can any one see international matching the Domestic . It will not be easy.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

I take it you mean Manchester

If Flybe take on Norwich Subject to timings of course I think you can kiss goodbye to Eastern and also of course the Stansted route as well with Air Berlin

G-I-B

[spharrison]

Sorry sorry it was going to be on MANCHESTER my mistake

[conradmueller]

the AB flights connecting to the new Gateway in STN already start on Dec. 17th 2005

[JohnnyRocket]

Havent seen it mentioned here but from May 2006 Delta will fly a 767-400 to JFK.

DL154 ETA 0830; DL155 ETD 1030 [Mon-Sun]


What do pepople think of this?

Think that Conintental will reintroduce their second service next summer?

Or perhaps this really will push BA out of the JFK route for good?

[TURIN]

Page 2 of this thread Johnny.

[shamrock7seal]

why isnt BA big at man, bhx and gla? both long-haul and european? there are such large operations at us regions with the major (traditional) carriers- i dont understand why BA is almost non-existant at our own regional airports-surely we have enough passenger demand to support it?

[kutereba]

I'd love for BA to operate flights to lax and bkk etc from MAN but they dont. main reason being as had been said on other posts on this site. London does not have a big enough catchment area for all of ba's flights so they have shuttles connecting in. BA have some sort of idea that lh out of anywhere other than lon is a bad idea which is why the only lh outside of lon in man0jfk which is always under threat of being cut.

[TURIN]

Watch this space.....Long Haul B757s from the regions.

(Sorry Dr I, I had to do it!)

[Skipness One Echo]

It's not as if they didn't try. BA flew to JFK with an L1011 from Glasgow, then a 763, moved it to Newark, back to JFK, changed it to a 757, extended it to Boston, dropped Boston, moved back to a 763 summer only and then gave up. Basically every pax on the Glasgow flight was potentially one less ona London service. Go where the money is chaps.
Now if Loganair bought a 767 on the BA franchise.....
:D

[Vuelo]

The truth is that sadly the mere mortals that fill up the back of the plane in economy just don;t make the airlines any money on long haul routes, What BA would beed is a full Business cabin everyday, and from MAnchester that won;t happen as he area is not rich enough. Lufthansa does long haul from DUS and MUC because these are huge manufacturing, wealthy areas of Germany. Unfortunately, we are now a service sector ecenomy in the North and that doesnt equal high business class yields.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

I used to work in Business travel and we had plenty of pax who were willing to pay the money but wanted to fly British Airways because of their frequent flyer
and corporate discounts, but were not happy with the state of the B767 on New York or lack of destinations so guess what
they got the good ole shuttle to Heathrow

G-I-B

[Skipness One Echo]

True - it was BA trying to persuade their own pax to stop shuttling that killed the Glasgow-JFK run. They knew the demand was their becasue they were still flying with BA - through London!

[Caslance]

Think that Conintental will reintroduce their second service next summer?Re-introduce? :confused:

They still operate Manchester - New York twice a day.

[VHF FLYER]

hmm Vuelo

Not convinced with your argument there although there is an element of truth in it.

But did you know that the NW of England (which is not the only part of MAN's catchment area) has a GDP that is greater than that of Denmark, Portugal or Greece to name a few? Not that poor! All relative really. Compare the long haul offerings from Copenhagen, Lisbon or Athens.

As GIB has pointed out, there are plenty of people in the MAN catchment area who are prepared to shell out for high quality services (ie C-Class) - I'm one of them for instance, but ONLY if it's value for money. I'm afraid the BA 767 that ops the NY service is old hat (and no offence to the flt crew who are invariably magnificent).
People tend to vote with their feet in a free market.
Cheers

[Adola69]

Ah yes Caslance they do for the moment, but I have it on good authority that come December 1st, they revert to a single daily service, albeit with a larger aircraft ( B.767-400), for the rest of the winter programme. So the question remains, will they re-introduce the second service? We'll just have to wait and see!
;)

[ManofMan]

"but I have it on good authority that come December 1st"

Good authority being the CO website which shows that they drop the CO100 from the 01st ????

[GrahamK]

ItLooks like CO will operate 2 Daily 757s into MAN next summer, seems to be no 767s like this summer

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

The B757 have the same seating as B767
but a lot less cargo and this year the airport authority managed to get Continental to change from 2 B757 to a mix of B757/B767, therefore next year I would think Delta if they get their act together stand a very good chance of picking up a lot of cargo due to their conections at JFK and a large cargo capacity on their B767-400

G-I-B

[ManofMan]

If Continental were to put 2 x 757's on the route they can kiss goodbye to most cargo bookings as the 75's have a cargo uplift of a Vauxhall Astra Van (and that is probably being mean to Astra Van's).

They will no doubt put 1 x 757 and 1 x 767 as per this year, otherwise they can kiss goodbye to the cargo revenue .

Rob

[Scottie Dog]

Could not agree with you more with regards to Continental - they would be shooting themselves in the foot if they were to move to an all B757 programme.

You have to remember that the plans for summer 2005 was for 2 B757s, but as has been said the airport authority appears to have drawn their attention to the error of their ways. Hopefully the same will happen for next year, once the schedules have been tweeked.

Now to passenger figures. It is good to see from the airport's website that terminal passengers were up 5.26pc to 2,047,535 for October. The strongest growing sector was scheduled International traffic at 16.48pc and domestic at 3.7pc (will we finally see a month were the domestic percentage increase in passengers will the larger than the increase in movements - ie the loadfactors get better?).

By the way, the increases at Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted for the same month were -0.08, +2.5, +0.6 respectively, so Manchester certainly appears to have had a good throughput.

Scottie Dog

[gayrugbybloke]

http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/web.nsf/Content/PressReleaseEtihadAirways

[initial]

Air Southwest have announced new service to CWL.

Also 'improved' Newquay service

[Scottie Dog]

Just had a look at the airport website and noticed they are showing bmibaby to Newquay with effect from 26th March.

Nothing appears on 'baby's' site, so any comments appreciated.

If this is correct then the airport claims there will be an additional 67 domestic flights per week by next summer.

Scottie Dog

[This Charming Man]

Winter 05/06

DLH to add a 4th daily DUS
QTR to add a 5th weekly DOH

Summer 06

4 new (unknown) Jet2 routes , subject to .....yes you've guessed it - Slots !

One further rumour is that Jet2 will receive more B757's over the next few months taking the fleet to 6 !

brgds
TCM

[Scottie Dog]

Slots - ah, yes.

Anybody remind me when the infamous IATA Slot Conference is being held? Is it this coming weekend? Will we get all of the same wild rumours (what a lovely word) that we had last year?

Let's not get too csarried away this winter.

Scottie Dog

[VHF FLYER]

TCM

Appreciate you're posting under full 'rumour mode' but some of this is known already.

Qatar is indeed putting its 5th weekly on from Feb.

Don't know about 4th daily LH - DUS but might make sense after AB pulled off route.

Jet2 One of those new routes is Rome for sure and I think another two have been spammed to me from their autospaming machine - think from memory a couple of 'me too' Med destinations - can't remember of no interest.

Cheers
VHF

[This Charming Man]

Scottie

It was held in Japan and ended today.

Brgds
TCM

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

BMI Baby New routes
Newquay and Perpignan

G-I-B

[redmech]

One further rumour is that Jet2 will receive more B757's over the next few months taking the fleet to 6 !


I belive one of the two extra 757's will be cut up for parts. so there will be at least 4 opperational between MAN and LBA. 757's look like starting in March 2006 ish.

The rumour is also that there 737 fleat will also increase in numbers to.

[lexxity]

Newquay is bookable now on bmibaby.

[liverpoolmum]

any one know anything on the CX proposed Manch - Moscow - Hong Kong and if there will be traffic rights between Manchester and Moscow?

[Scottie Dog]

Just been spending a few minutes looking at the slots for S06 and it appears - if they are all taken up - that we are in for a bumper season.

If you allow for the absence of BA on certain routes, then it would certainly seem that the majority of lost movements have been well and truely offset by the introduction of new routes/carrier. At the stage do not speculate as to who might be doing what - I have not seen any listings at all - but if you are aware of new routes then please post....check to see that it did not appear on the previous few pages though!!

All we need now is a ground system that can cope with all of the extra movements - hopefully the work in progress at the moment will mean no peak-time WIP as happened this year.

Scottie Dog

[VHF FLYER]

HLX to Hannover from Spring is another route that I've been spammed on - should save a lot of people a lot of money over the BACX alternative.
Used HLX four times already and quite impressed.

Apologies if this one's been mentioned elsewhere - hard to keep track.

[Vuelo]

Have heard a rumour that GB Airways are looking at Rhodes and Heraklion a couple of times a week next summer, then Sharm el Sheikh added winter 2006. Anyone knwo anyting?

Also, whats the latest with Cathay passenger services?

Are Emirates moving to Terminal 2 now or what?

[eggc]

Also, whats the latest with Cathay passenger services?

No mention whatso ever on the Cathay website, wether it be booking or a press release.

[MancRy]

Not heard any rumours about us doing RHO, HER, SSH. Wouldnt surprise me though as we do HER and SSH from LGW. There was some debate though as to how they were going to do the SSH flight. i.e whether to give crews a stopover or take an extra crew out to fly back. As it is, crews get a day off before and after. I don't know why there was a fuss as charter crews do the rotation in one day from MAN, which is further.

[akerosid]

Thai was rumoured to have an interest in flying to MAN; is this happening next Summer?

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

I`m sure it was 2008 but will believe when I see it

G-I-B

[UFGBOY]

done as level 2 flight - i.e. u ask CAA for dispensation to operate it in one FDP providing day off before, day off after etc etc

[Vuelo]

Guess if Jet2 ever do New York it'll be the same dispensation.

[PPRuNe Pop]

Three posts deleted that were nothing to do with aviation. Please stick to some professionalism. This is NOT a forum for the in(s)ane!

[Jet A1]

The main issue with SSH may not be crew hours but if the GB A320's have the legs to do it -- a tech stop is out if the question with the crew hours situation.

[c.r.m what is it]

That is a very good point Jet, having just done a ssh from LGW on a GB A320, it is fair to say that we did'nt have masses of fuel left.
All they could do is position one of the new A321's up from Lgw a couple of times a week, but then I doubt the local crew have been trained on that!

[MancRy]

Yeah we are trained on the A321's, we all just need a familiariation flight and we'd be ready.

[gayrugbybloke]

Has anyone got any idea whether Aeroflot are likely to start servics to Russia any time soon from MAN?

[VHF FLYER]

Yes please anyone.
I would be close to the front of the queue for this - someone should do this - plenty of premium traffic too at a guess.
Aeroflot Int are ok now.

[MancRy]

A Moscow flight would be really good for the airport. But i think if this was to happen, SU or whoever did the route would probably limit it to several flights a week rather than daily which reduces flexibility for the passengers. I could also see there being a demand up front but it also needs to fill those seats down the back (not everyone realises that) and there probably needs to be some marketing of Russia, and Moscow particularly, towards the city break tourist. It's not beyond the realms of possibility either...look at Prague now and the same is gradually happening in Warsaw, Tallin and Budapest!

[VHF FLYER]

MancRy

Yes I fear that might be the case. There are plenty of interesting destinations (Riga, Sofia, etc) from MAN that I might use but that, sadly only fly two or three times a week. The chances of those days co-inciding with my trip are remote - maybe one of the sectors but who wants to buy 2 one way tickets?
Therefore you go via somewhere.

Such longer European routes are really only viable as a business route if there are around four to five flights a week and ditto Moscow.

You mention Prague and that illustrates the point since CSA fly upto 3x daily and that's a great, viable business schedule. They'll get virtually all the MAN-PRG business traffic (including mine!)

A braver BA would fly a A319 MAN to Moscow perhaps on a 'W' routing after a Shuttle flight but why would they, they'd much prefer to fly you to LHR for their convenience rather than yours.

One day one day...
Keep dreaming

VHF

[MancRy]

VHF, your right. CSA do really well on the MAN flights and they aren't really connecting many in PRG...which many would argue is the case. As for Riga etc the route expansion is related to recent or prospective EU membership and thus being more appealing choices for the tourist. Russia on the other hand, you need a visa for example. The CX service is likely to be the only link to Moscow for the time being and only if that service is launched.

[VHF FLYER]

MancRy

Well if CX got MAN-SVO traffic rights - happy days but would the Russians allow that? - I somehow doubt it, unless you know otherwise.

Also I note that you make the very valid point about filling the back end of the a/c too. That's where it gets tough.
Moscow is hardly a short break destination - ultra expensive and unwelcoming to the visitor. Frankly not a great deal to see either once you've done Red Square and the Kremlin.

St. Petersburg though is radically different - a real touristic gem waiting to be discovered. Less C Class traffic though - can't seem to win.
Cheers
VHF

[MancRy]

Yes see what you mean. No don't know anything about the russians giving traffic rights. Be interesting to see though. Btw, were Tranaero supposed to be doin SVO or have i dreamt that?

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Yes they were but I believe Aeroflot put a large spanner in the works
I heard that the Cathey would be a Code share but that was quite a while ago

G-I-B

[MancRy]

We'll have to wait and see i guess.
See MAN was closed for a time this afternoon.
One of our flights got diverted to LPL.

[pwalhx]

I agree with ManCry that CSA seem to be doing well out of Manchester, however I disagree with his comment that there isnt a lot of connecting passengers, I disagree I have flown this route a few times and there has been plenty of people connecting to other points east.

[MancRy]

Its something that you cannot quantify just by flying the route several times. Sure there are people that do transfer, predominantly easwards like you say, but CSA dont do that much in the way of long haul and so the transfer traffic is quite limited.

[spharrison]

see flybe final summer time table are out and no big news about man at all. May be next winter ?

[VHF FLYER]

Nothing was actually promised for Summer other than BHD and EXT.

Don't expect too much..
FlyBe are developing a track record of broken promises.
By the way anyone notice how they always announce a 'new base' when in fact they only fly to a place?
A base in my book is a place where a/c and crew are based. Therefore to announce a new MAN base was a bit of a try on.

[Vuelo]

I have heard that Atlas Blue are looking to start services between Manchester and Marrakesh from spring 2005.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

They are a bit late then Vuelo, I guess you mean 2006 and would be nice to see a North African operator

G-I-B

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Thanks to Buster the Bear



Ryanair Holdings PLC said it will start four new routes from
its Shannon airport base on Feb 2006, to Manchester, Wroclaw in Poland, Rome and Murcia in Spain, each operating three times a week.

G-I-B

[spanishflea]

Looks like BA/Loganair have dropped Londonderry yet again as of mid January.

[EGCC]

Oh just wonderful, my mate booked himself to fly from Londonderry to MAN in March two days ago. Nice to see travel agents are as clued up as the rest of us! Anyone know if LDY - MAN is dropped completely and what to do about refunds, what a pain!

[initial]

Confirmed on ba.com (latest flight news)

LDY Flights cease on 9th Jan

[Mouser]

Start Ryanair LPL - Derry 9th Feb.

[spanishflea]

Likewise, I booked myself on for a Feb flight a few days ago and got an email confirmation this afternoon the same time the info was placed on ba.com

[chiglet]

Wonder if Aer Arran are going to try [yet] again?
watp,iktch

[VHF FLYER]

Pretty certain Aer Arran won't.
They flew LDY - MAN and BHX earlier this year. MAN did ok but BHX didn't. It was the same a/c operating a W routing. They might have carried on but found out that the airport mgmt were talking to RYR about LPL - they fell out with the airport mgmt and actually pulled out of LDY completely as a result.

Logan took over the MAN route mainly to give the a/c something to do in the middle of the day since it had won the Irish govt subsidised route from LDY to DUB.
I guess they looked over their shoulder at the RYR behemoth and thought oh what the hell.
RYR will hoover up all the NW England market to LDY (such as it is) they don't do all that well on Stansted.

[spanishflea]

I was hoping for a re-route via GLA but the person I spoke to today was adamant it was refunds only. Great :rolleyes:

[VHF FLYER]

Use your refund to buy a BMi Baby flight to Aldergrove (4 flights a day) and pocket the change.
LDY is a mere 40 minutes drive from there.
Done it myself - nice drive too.

[spannersatcx]

Hot off the press:

CX 237/6 HKG-SVO-MAN vv
Depart HKG 0015 Arrive SVO 0626 Depart 0750 Arrive MAN 0855
Depart MAN 1000 Arrive SVO 1655 Depart 1840 Arrive HKG 0810

All times local, also traffic rights MAN-SVO vv

A/C A340-300 2 class config.

Start 26 March Departing HKG MON/THU/SAT same for SVO & MAN :ok:

[VHF FLYER]

Thanks Spanners
How good is that... even better with traffic rights MAN-SVO
I expect to be using that a few times then.
Nice one:ok:

[Vuelo]

Off whose press is this information hot??!!

Can we have a source please so we can decide whether it is credible or not..?

[Scottie Dog]

From my own informed source I believe the flight is due to be officially announced at the start of next week. Appartantly local CX staff have already been advised of the pending announcement - and all on Pprune!!

Out of interest I see from the GDS that Qatar Airways are increasing their operation to daily - a mixture of morning and evening flight.

Another good day for Manchester.

Scottie Dog

[Scottie Dog]

Okay everybody - it is no longer a rumour!!

CX236/237 is available for sale in the Sabre GDS.

Well done Manchester.

Scottie Dog

[ManofMan]

Thats great news for Manchester !!!, now what we could do with is another freighter service from the Far East.

I wonder if Air China have thought of ever operating a Beijing service ???

ManofMan

[spannersatcx]

ManofMan I wonder if Air China have thought of ever operating a Beijing service ??? yes they are!

Vuelo Off whose press is this information hot??!! Our telex printer!

[ManofMan]

spannersatcx,
I think that Air China could maybee make this work if the started at say....three times a week, via say a Scandanavian country for instance.

Just a thought

Man of Man

[initial]

Have heard Air China recently got rights for Beijing - Manchester via Stockholm. Is this correct?

Also, according to the destination search on MIA website Libyan Arab Airlines are to run a scheduled service to Tripoli. Anyone have any more details?

[Lord Toofouright]

Also if they operated for instance on a Mon, Wed & Fri, with a B747F.,...... it might

possibly just work??


:ok:

[GrahamK]

Would that be the proposed MAN-CPH-PEK flight then? :}

[ManofMan]

GrahamK,

I think it might work better if it went PVG-CPH-MAN-PVG.

I think it also might work better on a Mon Weds and Thurs, but agree would be best with a 747F;)

[Scottie Dog]

Heard similar rumours to those you are reporting - but rumours are rumours. It would be nice though if they come true and a new cargo market was to be opened.

Could it lead to a future passenger service in a few years?

Scottie Dog

[spannersatcx]

The official press release can be found here (http://www.cathaypacific.com/intl/aboutcx/press/0,,31342-132404,00.html)

Cathay Pacific announces service to Moscow and Manchester

Cathay Pacific Airways today announced it will, pending final government approvals, make history again as the first Hong Kong airline flying to Russia with the launch of a three-times-weekly service to Moscow, starting 27 March 2006.

From Moscow, Cathay Pacific’s service will continue onwards to Manchester, England. Cathay Pacific will be the only airline to offer a direct passenger service to Manchester from Hong Kong.

The announcement came a week after the airline placed its biggest ever order for new aircraft in order to add flights and new destinations.

The Moscow service will extend an existing codeshare agreement with Aeroflot - Russian Airlines, while the Manchester service marks a resumption of Cathay Pacific passenger flights to the city, which traditionally has strong ties with Hong Kong. The route will be operated with an Airbus A340-300.

Cathay Pacific Chief Executive Philip Chen said: “Cathay Pacific’s new Moscow and Manchester service adds yet another spoke to the Hong Kong hub. It strengthens the city’s ties to Europe and reinforces its position as the gateway to the Chinese Mainland. “

Mr Chen added: “Moscow is an exciting destination and our new service will offer Hong Kong passengers more choices and greater travel convenience to this great capital. With three new services to Manchester, we will operate an unmatched 31 flights every week from Hong Kong to the UK.”

Both the Moscow and Manchester services are expected to generate new hub traffic to and from Australia, New Zealand and around the region. Hong Kong’s gateway position will appeal to Russian businesses forging closer trade ties within the Pearl River Delta.

Cathay Pacific has operated codeshare flights to Moscow with Aeroflot since June 2004. Aeroflot currently operates the service with Boeing 767 aircraft. All services operated by both airlines will carry Aeroflot's "SU" and Cathay Pacific's "CX" prefixes.

Cathay Pacific last week announced its biggest ever order for new aircraft to grow its fleet and network. The airline made commitments for 16 advanced wide-body Boeing 777-300ER aircraft with purchase rights for 20 more. It also made commitments to acquire three Airbus A330-300s to operate regional routes.

Cathay Pacific currently operates 54 passenger services to five cities in Europe each week. It operates four flights a day to London, plus daily services to Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Paris, and five weekly flights to Rome. The airline serves 92 destinations world-wide.

Full schedule
Flight number Days of operations
CX237 Hong Kong Moscow 00:15 / 06:25 Mon, Thu, Sat
CX237 Moscow Manchester 07:50 / 08:55 Mon, Thu, Sat
CX236 Manchester Moscow 10:00 / 16:55 Mon, Thu, Sat
CX236 Moscow Hong Kong 18:40 / 08:10 +1 Mon, Thu, Sat

[AUTOGLIDE]

Good news indeed, but isn't that a bit of a short turnround for a 340?

[Barber's Pole Bob]

British Airways franchise partner GB Airways has announced a new twice-weekly service from Manchester to Heraklion, Crete in summer 2006 as well as an increased service from London Gatwick.

The Manchester service, which starts on May 2, 2006 will bring the total number of weekly flights to the Greek island to seven in the summer, including five from London Gatwick.

[ManofMan]

Im glad that Cathay are to operate via Moscow this time instead of Germany, this will in my view leave room for another service ex Man to Germany.

Maybee someone like Condor should look at this ???

[petitfromage]

More importantly.....how about letting us (at Cathay) know a few good pubs/restuarants in MAN?
Looks like we'll be having 3-4day layovers.
Rgds

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Just sailed over my house the first Mahan Air A310 to Manchester and very nice it looks

G-I-B

[spannersatcx]

petitfromage, won't you position to LHR or AMS and operate out of there rather than 3 days in MAN?

[LGS6753]

petitfromage -

Your most important accessory for Manchester is an umbrella. After that, you can enjoy the vibrant nightlife, world class restaurants (not all of which serve black pudding), and rumour has it that they've got a football team.

You shouldn't be bored.

[ManofMan]

petitfromage,
Have a word with the guys and gals over at cargo....they know a good night when they see one.....trouble is it very rarely is just a night.....normally ends up lasting well into the next morning......

My head hurts thinking about it
:cool:

ManofMan

[Coasthugger]

LGS6753 - 'rumour has it that they've got a football team'.

They do indeed, Manchester City are very entertaining to watch and the stadium is great.

There's also teams in Wigan and (I believe) Salford, although the latter are in a bit of a decline at the moment...:ok:

[MancRy]

Not to mention,
Stockport
Oldham
Rochdale
Bolton
oh and Manchester United

[gayrugbybloke]

Are Meridiana to start a twice weekly Manchester Cagliari and once weekly Manchester Olbia service this summer? A source told me they have slots to operate in to and out of T3.

[gayrugbybloke]

VS announce weekly St Lucia apparently from Nov 2006!

[MancRy]

What was the EK 773 in MAN last night for? Returned from ACE and it saw it on the T2 apron.

[ManchesterMan]

It went tech early afternoon - apparently.

[spharrison]

So virgin go next summer
10 x Orlando 747
1 x Barbados a340 ?
and next Nov St Lucia 1 a week a340 or 747

[spannersatcx]

VS at the moment fly 6 days a week to Orlando, and Sundays to Barbados all with a 744, no Airbus. I believe it goes to 10 a week in the summer 2006 and eventually double daily in 2007.

Last year they did some P&O charters with a 340 once every 2 weeks.

[HON 1R]

Unfortunately we won't be seeing any A340s from VS again up here at MAN for a long while. They're concentrating more on their A346 expansion at LHR and are getting rid of their remaining A343's fairly soon.

Dale

[Vuelo]

I hear that we should look out for a little bit more FR expansion from MAnchester....Charleroi and Girona have been mentioned.....!

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

And I`ve heard Hahn

G-I-B

[Scottie Dog]

Very interesting how these rumours of FR looking at increasing their presence at Manchester have started.

First we get Shannon. at an off-peak timing. Now there are rumours of three other destinations (or should I say points of origin, as I am assuming that they are not looking at basing aircraft in Manchester).

Has something happened to suddenly make Manchester attractive to FR? In the past they have always intimated (or vocally cried) that the costs at Manchester were far to high - and how greedy the airport authority was.

Scottie Dog

[Vuelo]

EMA is a Manchester Airport Group concern, as is Bournemouth which are FR favouries......obviously deals must be being done behind the scenes, and perhaps FR have just realised that there could be a market to tap in to down the M62 at MAN!

Hope it comes off! I;d personally like to see Italy better served from MAN...these seasonal PSA/VCE LS routs are no use to any businessman in the NW. Same for VLC and BUD

Come o FR, kick some ass at MAN!!.

[airhumberside]

EMA is a Manchester Airport Group concern, as is Bournemouth which are FR favouries......obviously deals must be being done behind the scenes,
And rumours of HUY-DUB

[bigmuk]

yo dudes

i don't think the powers that be know what to do, what do you dude think ?

building a 3rd runway, what the point in that when they the 2nd runway is closed half the day.

and a 4th terminal, where the logic in that, they got no where to put it. it either on the other side of runway 2, or moving the cargo centre and hangers, and then where is the 3rd runway is gonna go ???

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Bigmuk

The extra 3 hours a day will be filled for the second runway when an extra watch of controllers are trained up, which I am led to believe takes about 18 months and the airport has sorted the last bit of the deal it negotiated with the anti noise/Mobberley residents ( which I need someone else to confirm the nitty/griity) is concluded.
From 21.00 to 06.00 is night time so therefore a quite time of the day hence no runway extra runway needed and keeps the costs down ( no extra controllers, fire cover etc etc

Watchout for the masterplan which will give you all the details you need re extensions terminals and the future plans of the airport

Out of interest DUDE what do you command ( reading your profile), not a very good command of English that`s for sure

[Momentary Lapse]

Scottie Dog: FR will grow because the Sales Director, Tim McDermott, plans to slash the off peak charges from next April.

He's also increasing the peak charges a bit but the overall charges total will go down. It's a classic strategy to increase demand by reducing costs. A good idea given that most of the airport is under-utilised at off peak times, so it's money for old rope as most of the airport's cost is in the fixed assets (concrete, bricks and mortar) anyway so might as well be earning a few pence rather than sit idle, costing the same, and earning nothing.

Watch out for Tim. I tip him as the next MD of MA or CX of the MA Group. Can't do a worse job than the current bumbler anyway.

The masterplan will not reveal a 3rd runway or 4th terminal IMHO. I predict it will reveal massive expansion of the three existing terminals, more apron to east and west, and assume much better use of the off peak hours.

[ezy733]

I hear that we should look out for a little bit more FR expansion from MAnchester....Charleroi and Girona have been mentioned.....! well I never
Easy 2004 all over again. I will say this again like I did Last year IT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN :}

[gayrugbybloke]

Awwww! It always rattles Liverpool when they think Manchester might have a bigger bite of their 'cherry'..!

How is your cherry, ezy733??! Hehehehe

[Scottie Dog]

Hi ezy

Last year we were discussing the possible establishment by easyJet of a relatively large base at Manchester since they had applied for a large number of slots. This was not based on rumours, but was in fact true - only easyJet did not get the slots that they had wanted.

In this case, I understand the Ryanair situation to be - if it is true - more of a case of using overseas based aircraft to operate into Manchester on a relatively small scale. MOL has always been eager (nay if not even gready, some would say)to accept a bargain and if, as has been intimated by Momentary Lapse, the airport has decided to revise its charging policy and make certain off-peak times very attractive, then I see no reason why FR would not dip their toes in the water.

It would appear that there may be other interesting route developments by other airlines however, after the debacle of last year, I will keep the confidentiality of reports I have seen as such.

[EGCC4284]

Looks like Manchester may get the odd divert or two over the next couple of weeks

Anybody want any fuel

[ManofMan]

EGCC4284,
I see where you are coming from but I think that with a bit of planning they will get away with this. BA will still recieved the vast majority of the fuel they need for Long Haul US flights, with the remainder of the percentage being ferried in on Inbound US flights.

AA and UA will simply use the BOS/JFK/ORD etc etc flights to ferry in fuel to top up the LAX/SFO etc etc flights.

All the Far East carriers will stop en-route in Europe/Middle East......so I personally think any diverts will be kept to an absolute minimum, there again if we could get a couple of RVR days with some holding.........

Time will tell.

[GrahamK]

Air Scotland starting 1 x weekly MAN-BCN flights on Fridays starting January 2006.

Since when has MAN been in Scotland? :suspect:

[twonky]

GLA-MAN-BCL-MAN-GLA starting 20th January ...terminal 1

[Bagso]

QF just announced that they are now rtng some flights thru Stansted for fuel.

Surely we must be down for some LAX or SF flights ?

[initial]

Are Ryanair reducing their frequency to DUB?

Only 2 flights a day bookable from May 06 - all off peak timings

[Scottie Dog]

My sources say the website is probably not showing a true schedule - also seems strabge that they would not be offering a day return facility!

As always it is very early days for the summer schedule - are BA still holding slots for aircraft that are no longer based at Manchester? If so, who will get what when the deadline for returning slots comes.

Whilst I have the opportunity, a Happy Christmas to all.

Scottie Dog

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Scottie dog
When is the return date for slots

G-I-B

[Scottie Dog]

I understand the latest date for returns is 31st January.

After that we will probably get finalisation of a lot of outstanding schedules - such as the Jet2 Gatwick/Amsterdam/Edinburgh routes etc.

[initial]

Any reason why there is no mention of Cathay on the airports website yet?

Are they too busy seeing how many more fruit machines they can fit into T1 arrivals hall?

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Thanks Scottie Dog
I think next summer could be very interesting, certainly very different from this year and hopefully with BA not using all their slots carriers like Alitalia might get better slots rather than 09.30 which just a tad late by the the odd hour or 2

G-I-B

[chiglet]

G-I-B
Don't forget, a few years ago Alitalia "tried" a similar schedule Manch-Milan..BA changed "THEIR" timings...and guess what? Alitalia "went away"......
watp,iktch

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

I think that was when BA had more guts
You only have to wink at them now and they will drop the route

G-I-B

[EGCC]

Cathay is very much mentioned on the staff intranet so only a matter of time before it's put on the official website. They've already gone public to the BBC, so it's a bit poor of them not to even mention it themselves!

[Mouser]

Might BA be hanging to slots to aid GB with their expansion.

[MancRy]

Possibly i suppose. Although apprently we (GB) aren't supposed to be getting a third aircraft at MAN until early 2007.

[MAN Guy]

Hi guys!

I'm new to the forum and this is my first post!

I'm interested to know more about the rumours suggesting Libyan Arab are to commence TIP from MAN. When are they due to start, what will they use and what frequency??? I have noticed they were loaded onto the website at Manchester Airport as operating from T1, but now seem to have disappeared without trace!

I personally think the route would do quite well from MAN. When I used to work at T3 for a certain (ever shrinking at MAN) airline, their LGW flights on a Sat morning had loads of pax checked through to TIP on them!

Also interested to know about any other new service rumours for MAN for spring/summer if anyone has any info?!

Cheers

MAN Guy

[lexxity]

Apparently bmibaby are to move from T1 to T3 to use the BA desks next to the bmi ticket desk. The ones that are used once a day for the JFK and a couple of standby desks. If it's true (which my very reliable source says it is) then it will make a lot more sense than using T1.:ok:

[phil_2405]

From 26th March 2006 bmibaby may be flying from an alternative terminal at Manchester Intl Airport. If you have booked flights to travel after this date, please contact bmibaby reservations on 0870 264 2229 one month prior to travel to confirm which terminal your flight will be departing from.

Source: bmibaby.com

This would seem to confirm that baby will be moving and I have also heard it from a very reliable source.

[spharrison]

Mahan Air W55026 from Imam Khomein
Question
is it scheduled,once a week and is it a A310
can any one help please

[spannersatcx]

EGCC, not sure I quite understand what you mean, but there was a press release at cathaypacific.com (http://www.cathaypacific.com/intl/aboutcx/press/0,,31342-132404,00.html) on 6/12/05!

[agent x]

Lady lexxington you are indeed correct. Both bmibaby and all bmi mainline longhaul flights will be moving to terminal 3 in the new year to the bank of desks you mention. The bmi ticket desk is to be extended aswell, so my sources say!

At least the whole operation will go from the same terminal, will be a lot less confusing for the passengers. Especially the poor WW Belfast lot who arrive into T3 at the minute and depart from T1. Bless them, they always seem so confused stumbling around T3 throughout the day looking for bmibaby check-in!

Agent x :ok:

[EGCC4284]

Just to back up my post regarding diverts etc etc

http://smh.com.au/news/world/heathrow-rations-fuel/2005/12/17/1134703645304.html

[Vuelo]

1 AA 757
1 AA 767
1 BA 767
2 BD 330s
1 AY 319/320/170
2 GT 320s...

these are all at MAN between 0530 and 1130 everyday..so how will they all git on to T3???

[EGCC]

Spanners,

Yeah I was refering to MAN's website, not Cathays.

[bigmuk]

Yo dude's, anyone know anything about the building of a new terminal and the extension of the runways for the A380's ? I heard that they were extending Terminal 2, and extending the runway 1 onto the fields on the other side of styal road. ???

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Bigmuk

Are you on the right forum?
I think if you read back through previous posts you will find that T2 is be extended to the west
Re the runway perhaps if you get a map out first I think it will answer your question

G-I-B

[jamesbrownontheroad]

At least the whole operation will go from the same terminal, will be a lot less confusing for the passengers. Especially the poor WW Belfast lot who arrive into T3 at the minute and depart from T1. Bless them, they always seem so confused stumbling around T3 throughout the day looking for bmibaby check-in!

I'd like to point out it's also an arse going the other way. I became an expert last year on how to arrive on the 2145 flight from BFS, and make the last direct train to Sheffield just before 2150 I think. Arrival was usually early (about 2135) and I usually requested seat 2C so I could be sliding down the banister rail of the aircraft steps as soon as our Tracey opened the doors, but it still meant an infuriating marathon run... a slalom through the half arsed 'police check' ("Are you the Belfast flight?" "Yep" "Ok, carry on...") and then the most annoying straight run from the furthest reaches of terminal three, which as you know is directly adjacent to the airside hall of terminal one (and which is frustratingly visible through through a big glass wall - oh for a fire hammer).

I guess it's about 300m to baggage reclaim, through arrivals, up the escalators (what? BMI fly to Omaha?) and then back the same distance upstairs, followed by another slalom through dozy charter passengers carrying plates of grease from the caffs, down the escalators in terminal 1 airside and a final charge through the check-in hall, up the escalators... then a final push along some broken travelators across the bridge to the railway station, where as usual the escalator would be in small pieces on the floor or the elevators would just open, bleep, close, bleep and open again. There then followed a short argument with the NR ticket man about the validity of Northern Irish banknotes, and then a tarzan like leap down to the platform through the closing doors of a TransPennine sprinter (which would most likely be delayed at Stockport later...).

Plan your long distance relationships wisely my friends: avoid Friday nights at MAN... :E

*j*

[VHF FLYER]

James B on the road raises a very valid point about arriving Belfast flghts.
I've done a few of these and I would nominate them for the most ridiculous air service and airport award. (There should be one of these - it might shame airports into sorting out some of the more nonsensical things that they do).

Apparently all Belfast flights have to arrive at Gate 3 on T1. This is regardless of whether you have departed from T1 or T3!!!!
The reason for this is that there is a Police post there. This is hardly ever manned. And hey, isn't it easier for plod to move his lazy ar$e to an appropriate gate than inconvenience thousands of INNOCENT passengers?

Gate 3 to the exit is one hell of a hike and if like JBOTR, you're catching a train, it must feel like you've walked half way there by the time you're on the train.
c'mon Manch - get your act together.

[chiglet]

VHF
To be fair, the Police Post "looks at all NI flights [donks ago I did a "fam flight" to 'Derry.......went through the "Checks", even with an ID card and documetation. :ok:
watp,iktch

[TSR2]

"Isn't it easier for plod to move his lazy ar$e"

I find this offensive remark about the police totally unnecessary against the context of your comments.

[gayrugbybloke]

In their defence, I see most of the coppers at T1 everyday and they are generally pretty gorgeous!! They have some nice 'arses' that I totally approve of!

Wonder if any are gay...?? :O

[VHF FLYER]

oh please TSR2, lighten up, no offence intended.

Mr Gayrugbybloke has the right idea.

The 'lazy ar$e' thing is actually a quote from a member of GMP who is a mate. When I asked him about this oddity of airport architecture, it was he who told me that very reason using those very words.

There is no valid reason why thousands of passengers should be inconvenienced for the convenience of GMP.

No doubt that catch all phrase 'in the interests of security' will be trotted out as the official reason for such poor consideration.

[Vuelo]

Emirates to operate from Terminal 2 from start of summer schedules.

T1 to be base for Etihad and Cathay Pacific.

BD and WW to move to Terminal 3 from start of summer scheds also, along with Meridiana I am told.

[initial]

Have tried to summarise what has already been announced for summer 06.

Any more to come from Jet2? Their aircraft seem very under used before 15.00 next summer even with AMS, EDI and LGW schedules to be announced. Is BUD being dropped, it's the only 'longer route' of theirs not yet on sale.

NEW services for Summer 06 (did not operate S05)

Abu Dhabi 1*Daily Ethiad
Alicante 6*Weekly Thomsonfly
Barcelona 1*Weekly Air Scotland
Belfast City 4*Daily Flybe
Cardiff 2*Daily Air Southwest
Exeter 2*Daily Flybe
Hanover 5*Weekly Hapaq Lloyd Express
Heraklion 2*Weekly BA (GB)
Hong Kong 3*Weekly Cathay Pacific
Ibiza 5*Weekly Jet2
Ibiza 5*Weekly Thomsonfly
Isle of Man 3*Daily Aer Arann
London STN 2*Daily Air Berlin
Mahon 3*Weekly Monarch
Malaga 6*Weekly Thomsonfly
Moscow 3*Weekly Cathay Pacific
Newquay 1*Daily BMI Baby
New York JFK 1*Daily Delta
Palma 8*Weekly Thomsonfly
Palma 1*Daily Jet2
Perpignan 1*Daily BMI Baby
Rekjavik 2*Weekly Icelandair
Rome 5*Weekly Jet2
Salzburg 2*Weekly Sky Europe
Shannon 3*Weekly Ryanair
Tehran 2*Weekly Mahan


WITHDRAWN (Operated S05 but will not operate S06)

Athens 2*Weekly Hellas Jet (operated part season)
Basle 2*Daily Swiss
Berlin 1*Daily Air Berlin
Cork 1*Daily BA
Dusseldorf 1*Daily Air Berlin
Londonderry 1*Daily BA / Aer Arann
Madrid 1*Daily Monarch
Manston 1*Daily EU Jet (operated part season)
Minsk 1*Weekly Belavia*
Naples 1*Daily Monarch
Nice 1*Daily BA
Oporto 6*Weekly PGA Portugalia
Pisa 1*Daily BA
Rome 1*Daily BA
Shannon 1*Daily BA
Stuttgart 1*Daily BA
Venice 1*Daily BA
Venice 1*Daily Jet 2
Washington 6*Weekly BMI
Zurich 2*Daily BA

* - May return?? no details yet

TO BE ANNOUNCED SHORTLY ????

Basle 1*Daily BMI Regional
Calgliari 2*Weekly Mediterania
Norwich 1*Daily Flybe
Olbia 1*Weekly Mediterania
Plymouth Air Wales
Rennes Air Wales
Tripoli Libyan Arab

[Momentary Lapse]

Re Police:

When only BA did Belfast they had to depart and arrive from the Causeway Lounge (Gates 1-3 T3).

When WW started BFS they could depart from a selection of T1 gates but had to arrive at G3 T3.

BA complained (!) about an un-level playing field (!) so the Police check was moved to the T3 security area, allowing BA to depart Belfast from any gate. But arrivals were still to be via T3 G3.

I understand the Police are moving to somewhere around G43 on the arrivals level so a/c can arrive at any gate and the passengers be bussed in with a shorter walk.

The Police check in T1 is now in the arrivals hall, to which passengers will be bussed. This replaces the ludicrous arrangement next to Immigration, where passengers just used their passports and bypassed the check, by going through Immigration with international passengers.

There is no Police check in T2 any more because there are no flights of interest to the Police since FR moved to T1.

Having said that the Police can do what they like if they really want to!

[bigmuk]

Ref Vuelo about change of terminals for several airlines.

Why is CX going onto T1, when they went onto T2 a few years ago before they pull out ?

Anyway T2 be better for EK, a lot more room for them, some of the T1 stands aren't the best fokes.

[Going loco]

The key for 2006 will again be the performance of the inclusive tour front. It's still such a big part of MAN's business and it is under constant pressure from the loco operators. November saw 50,000 fewer IT passengers at MAN than last November, pretty much wiping out all of the gains from Jet2 and so on. the problem is that everyone gets excited about new *scheduled* routes to sun spots from Jet2, Thomsonfly and ignores the fact that this very rarely results in the overall market growing.

One to keep a close an eye on.

loco

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

As I think has been stated before the IT market is a thing of the past as we have always known it, Jo public are getting much wiser and people are not taking the traditional 2 weeks sun holiday but more smaller breaks or own a villa some where in France, Spain and increasingly Bulgaria, Turkey etc
Therefore the name of the game is flexibility

G-I-B

[spannersatcx]

Why is CX going onto T1, when they went onto T2 a few years ago before they pull out ?

Because the Airport Authority say there is no room on T2.

[zenoracle]

Can anybody confirm the start of Sterling Blue's Manchester to Copenhagen double daily for summer 06 not seen many references to this but I'm sure it was on their web site.

[longstay]

Why, every time I have ever visited Manchester airport, do the travelators not work ?, on my way outbound 2 weeks ago,carrying a 10 month old with a pushchair and bags etc is ridiculous, I have never (and I use the airport allot) been through terminal 1 with all the travelators / escalators working.

Do Cathay / Etihad know what their pax wil have to put up with ?

The same on my return, the whole of terminal 1's transport 'shut down' ?????

What on earth is the continuing problem ? :confused:

[EGCC]

This time of year is the airport's quietest time of year which is why pretty much every escalator and lift is undergoing a total overhaul due to the constant breakdowns which occur. Yes it is frustrating, but they are fixing the problem by putting in totally new ones at the moment. They will all be replaced by summer when the airport is at its busiest.

[ManchesterMan]

........or perhaps they knew that you were
on your way and pulled out all the stops so
that you could have a moan near the edge of
the year.........Am I right or am I RIGHT!

[WOWBOY]

How succesful do you think Air Southwest's New CWL service will be?

Bmibaby: MAN-NQY will it last?

I do see Bmibaby struggling on their new MAN-NQY service as the timing of the flight is not sutibale I feel made it would be suitable for lesuire passegers. I think Air Southwest's MAN-NQY (via CWL) will do better as it is 2xdaily and at better times.

[chiglet]

bigmuk,
I think you mean a330-200. The B777-300 is the lunchtime service, [sometimes a B777-300ER].
watp,iktch

[jetsetwilly]

Anyone know when Etihad's operations begin at MAN?

[AlphaWhiskyRomeo]

The 773 ER is almost a daily occurence at MAN at the mo. They seem to have gone tech a few times in the last 2 weeks though. No idea why.
I heard the A330 will stay on the evening flight for the time being.
Not sure whether it'll stay like this until the A380 comes along. I reckon Ethiad and extra Qatar services may limit some expansion for EK in the next year or two.

Their 773 ER is the best looking a/c currently serving MAN I reckon. Love the raked tips and the belly Emirates logo, and it is so loooong!

[spharrison]

going off ringwayreports Libyan Arab Airlines are starting twice weekly (thu,sun) to Tripoli from 2/2/06 with A320 times are A 12-15 D 13-45
Good news (if it start up) any more in the pipeline

[Vuelo]

I have heard a rumour that antas are likely to be back at MAN with a three times a week service by 2007! They are awaiting new aircraft and then it looks like MAN will featire again in their long haul prgramme. Good news if it comes of!

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Hi Vuelo
You have left me guessing is it Qantas?

G-I-B

[bozzy]

how do you know this, were have you heard it from?

it would be great if they did.:)

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Bozzy
There seems to be a letter missing in Vuelos post so as I have said I am guessing as to what he means

G-I-B

[bozzy]

oh i am guessing it is qantas too.

Well i hope it is.

[Ringwayman]

Yet QF stated, at the time of them/Backpackers Express applying for the extra UK rights on offer, that they would not be looking at anywhere else in the UK for at least 5 years which would take us to 2009 at the earliest before they restart....and even then it's a moot point if it will be in their own colours or, more likely, Jetstar, with the probable type being the 787.

[GOLF-INDIA BRAVO]

Yes I guess I will believe when I see it

G-I-B

[Curious Pax]

When Qantas ordered their 787s recently they included some for Jetstar for international routes (with A330s filling until the 787s are available). Suggestion seemed to be that they would fly to Europe, and be aimed at the lower cost end of the market. As Manchester supposedly lost QF due to the lack of high yield pax, then putting 2+2 together would place Jetstar into MAN. 2007 fits in with the general planning they have announced I think.

[bozzy]

who is jetstar, are they owned by qantas??:confused: :confused:

[airhumberside]

who is jetstar, are they owned by qantas??:confused: :confused:
Yes. They presently fly within Australia and also to New Zealand, using A320's and B717's (which are being phased out and transfered to QantasLink, the Qantas regional airline)

[FFHKG]

Jetstar also have a loco subsidiary, Jetstar Asia, which operates a range of sevices out of Singapore to destinations that include BKK, TPE & HKG .... they are the only loco that flies into HKG at present.

[Vuelo]

Does anyone know the reason I can;t book Portugalia flights from Manchester to Lisbon this summer? Are they definitely pulling the route?