Flybe sponsorship

[jetstreamlover]

Anyone any idea when the Flybe sponsorship for 2006 opens?

[EGAC_Ramper]

Probably most likely the interviews will be held in November like thay have been for last 2 years.Both occasions I've been away so missed out and well this I shall not be applying,already nearly finished groundschool.So keep looking out around October/November for the announcement.

Regards:ok:

[sbanni]

Hi all,

I have been looking out in the aviation mags for the flybe pilot training scheme that was due to be announced around this time, and as soon as I saw details of it in Flight Training News, I went on the website (www.ccat.org.uk) and it states the scheme has closed!!

However, it states that the details will be on the CCAT website "later this month", and i'm referring to the Sept 05 edition!

Please can someone either confirm that the course has closed or that maybe it hasn't even opened yet!?

Thanks
Scott

-Worried

[Mattd]

Hi Scott,


If you're talking about this http://www.ccat.org.uk/sponsorship.htm

Don't worry, when it says 'for Sept 05' it meant from last year's applicants (they would have commenced training in 05, selected 04)

That page hasn't changed since last October 04!

HTH,

Matt

[sbanni]

Thanks a lot Matt, I was worried for a bit there!!

Regards
Scott

[hingey]

According to the CCAT website Flybe will advertise the part- sponsorship scheme again in Flight International on Sept. 27th

h

[birdofprey]

Surprised not to see anything posted yet, just read Flight International and see Flybe is offering part pilot sponsorship. I see it is for the 10th year running - anyone got any info or tips to anyone who would want to apply??:ok:

[EGTC]

If this is the Cabair sponsorship, I've seen it on the website and it says applications will be accepted from tomorrow (27th), and it will also be advertised in tomorrows Flight International. There doesn't seem to be any information on the scheme other than there will be one, I'll see what information becomes available tomorrow.

[pheeel]

Probably the same as this:

Flybe 2005 Pilot Sponsorship Scheme (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=145452&highlight=flybe)

and this:

FLYBE sponsorship (2003) (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=103935&highlight=flybe+sponsorship)

maybe worth a read for those interested :8

pheeel

[EGTC]

I've just seen the ad in Flight International, and I'm too young to apply :{

[conor_mc]

Age requirements for 2005 were 20-28.

Age requirements for 2006 are 20-33.

This is another positive indication that the job market is on the up, when airlines begin to broaden their pool of potential candidates. Relaxed age requirements now may lead towards relaxed hours requirements in another year or two, allowing low hours candidates to get their foot on the first rung of the ladder.

Hopefully, anyway!

[martyfly]

Hi all,

Has anyone received the application pack yet? I sent off an e-mail on the 27/9/05 when the scheme first open and I am yet to get anything!

Plus does anyone know anything about the scheme? I can really find any info on the scheme, maybe Im just looking in the wrong place?:confused:

[Mark 3:16]

Me too mate - emailed Tim somebody @ cabair for an application pack and nothing for a week.

Too be fair, he's probably been inundated. Plenty of time before the deadline.

Cheers
Mark

[roundthebend]

I'm also waiting.....

For info you could look at Cabair's generalised details:

http://www.ccat.org.uk/syllabus_fwintegrated.htm

[Dogbert]

Hi,
Don't panic, it'll probably be a while; it took 2 weeks for mine to come last year, and I expect the same this year. The office at Cranfield is not very big and the admin of sending out 500+ forms at once is a bit stressful I would think. Are you all fresh lambs for the slaughter, or are there any other sad old repeat offenders like me?

cheers,
Dogbert

[Superpilot]

Anyone know if the 60 hours cap is a strict limit? I'm on a hundred - taken me a while though.

[martyfly]

Hi Dogbert

Iv have never applied for this sponsorship scheme before but have applied for the Easyjet CTC and Excel/Thomas Cook OAT schemes. I got through to stage 2 on all of the aforementioned schemes but fallen at the interview/aptitude tests!

What is the format of the flybe scheme; do they use PILAPT or COMPASS aptitude tests?

Cheers, Martyfly:mad:

[Grass strip basher]

I agree the hours cap seems bizarre.... how do you represent a higher training risk if you have more hours under your belt already (I'm at 130). Seemed a very bizarre requirement to me... penalises you for having shown an interest in the profession..... hmmm I wonder what people would say if you stopped nurses from applying to medical school because they have "too many hours".... not exactly the same I know but still illustrates a point :rolleyes:

[EGTC]

It must be because they want to train people their way, and they think people with less than 60 hours can easily adapt to their way of flying, I can see your point though. I suppose they might see the ideal candidate as someone who has flying experience (showing an interest in the career), but not too much (can still be trained their way).

[mcand]

Maximum of 60 hours is very strange. I have 100 at the moment. I had my PPL when i was 17 and you would think that showing this commitment would be a positive thing.

Might tear some pages out of the log book

[Grass strip basher]

I understand where you are coming from but the "learning to fly our way" arguement is a bit lame... imagine if you had built up your hours and done your PPL at a CCAT school!... or are the Flybe grads being taught to fly a warrior in some top secret fashion the rest of the aviation world are unfamiliar with?!

...or I can just imagine a jet FO with 3,000 hours at his interview at BA.... "I'm sorry sir but you have too many hours to be taught how to fly our way".... hmmmm seems like a load of old toilet to me.... anyone from CCAT care to comment??:*

[ATP_Al]

They are looking for people who will fit in to an integrated course and progressing in line with a very rigidly structured syllabus.

From what I've heard, integrated students are taught to fly as if they were flying an airliner from day one. An experienced PPL will have some general aviation specific skills and knowledge that may conflict with the course content and actually slow progress. On the other hand, someone who has a limited amount of experience and is familiar with the effects of controls may progress quicker and by getting those hours they have demonstrated a measure of commitment to an aviation career.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it just seems to be the way it is. I applied to the same scheme in 2003 before they added the 60hr limit. I had a PPL and 265hrs and got all the way through to the final interview. I didn't get sponsored but I was first reserve in case anyone dropped out. I guess I'll never know if it was my experience that made the difference or not. However, I have since gained my fATPL via the modular route and that extra experience has now lifted me above many 250hrs pilots in the job hunting stakes. What I have noticed is that recruiters tend to focus on pilots in certain bands of experience. The trick is not to stay in the gaps between these bands for too long!

Good luck,

Al

[Dogbert]

The format last year was two test days.

Day 1/Second stage was 150ish multiple guess maths and physics, annoyingly and expensively on a separate test day.

Day 2/Third stage was the computer test (one used last year was Pilapt) plus headshrinking/perception test and interview; I think they'll be sticking to the the same formula this year. The H/P test was some proprietry thing which i forget the name of;(rummages through folders) ah ha, Morrisby tests is the name. They have a website so you can get a basic idea of the format, but because its all customised to identify optimum candidates(in this case for ATPL) there are lots of things in the test not in the examples.

As to the hours limit; I guess after running a scheme like this for 10 years, they have found that high hours have caused problems, which make them look bad and cost the customer money. I notice the age limit has been raised this year from 28 to 33, but I can't decide whether thats good or bad.:confused:

[UAU242]

can you elaborate on the physics questions? Were they mechanical or the speed-distance-time type questions, or did they involve more than this?

Cheers

uau

[NeoDude]

Where is the training for this sponsorship based?

And is it a similar deal as the Easyjet scheme with the 60k bond thats repayed over your first 7 years employment?

[mcand]

Training is based at cabair.

[jetgirl_99]

Just to let you all know, I received my application this morning, emailed Tim sometime last week. They must be on the way out now to everyone still waiting.

Good luck all!

[c_jephcott]

The 60 hour cap is what is my stalling point above all else. I was strongly eyeing up applying for the sponsorship scheme, but this is going to provide a real problem to me, as I currently have 100 hours odd in a variety of different planes.

Just as a question, is anybody out there going to apply even if they have over 60 hours? Or really, should I just ditch the illusion and resign myself to a big bank loan?

[Biggles_77]

Hi,
Received the application form today. Although I will still apply I am a little concerned about the finance side of the contract. Basically I need more information?, and I don't know if previous applicants can help ?. I'm quite happy/willing to fork out £40K if successful but what i'm concerned about is that FlyBe want you to pay back their share of £20K also. I thought the point of a part-sponsorship was for them to pay an amount (and for it not to be paid back) and for you as the cadet to pay the £40k loan back ??..

The contract mentions that they deduct £3,960 per annum from your salary to repay the costs from them i.e £20k in total, and that you will be paid the appropriate FO's salary (but what is it?).. Looking at PPJN is that £30K ?? or do you enter as a cadet FO on a lower salary ?.

Sorry to talk about money but if recruited on a salary of low £20k it would be almost impossible to repay a loan of that amount and FlyBe ? Can someone shed anything on this subject ? previous successful applicants maybe? - and how they managed?.

It is a great scheme and I appreciate what they are doing for low houred people but the information is vague with regards to finance. I know I will need to ask more questions if I get onto the 2nd stage.

Thanks, Biggles

[Bootylicious]

Guys, if you have more than 60hrs, just lose some of them!

[VarigMD11]

Hi guys

Ive also received my (rather thin) pack about 2 days ago. I have started to fill it in, but am rather perplexed by the payment scheme. I know that HSBC have a deal with Cabair, does this also apply to the FlyBe scheme (paying back the £37000), or do the applicants have to find the funds themselves??

Also, it is stated in small print that FlyBe would favour applicants from the Channel islands and N Ireland. Now I understand the Channel Island bit, as Flybe have many routes to and from the Islands, but I dont understand why people from N Ireland have a greater chance of success, any comments??

Cheers

[Artificial Horizon]

Biggles,

in reply to your question about the salary at FlyBe you do indeed lose around 3 grand a year as a result of being sponsored. I left FlyBe about six months ago and the Dash salary then was 24,800ish + flight pay which will amount to about 2,500 per year. Monthly take home was about 1,700 - 333 for the sponsorship so you could bank on between 1400 and 1500 per month. I think that you will find that there is NO sponsorship scheme still in existance that does not expect you to pay back the training costs. I suppose they should really call it an interest free loan as opposed to sponsorship. A couple of things that I would throw in aswell is the fact that you are also expected to sign the dash _ training bond when you join which when I left was 12,000 reducing over 3 years. The net result is that you owe flybe over 30,000 grand if you want to leave on day one, this reduces over the period of years to 0, so it is quite a commitment. Having siad that though, it worked for me and I now fly nice shiney jets for a major airline:)

[Biggles_77]

Thanks AH,

I'm interested to know from you how you managed to pay the HSBC (£40k) loan back and how much that was per month ? - also how did you survive a whole year with no salary from FlyBe ? - did you have to take an extended loan ?
Cheers, Biggles

[CrewChick]

Hi Guys

I too sent off for the application pack, sent the email on Wed night and received the pack this morning.

I'm slightly confused with all the financing etc so some of the comments so far have been a great help.

I am a flying virgin, never been at the controls of a plane before, just served tea and coffee for a while now and at 25 years old I feel that there are gonna be loads of 18/19 year olds fresh out of doing their A levels to compete with.

Would be great to chat to any of you that went through this last year.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained I guess.

CrewChick

[Maude Charlee]

Current starting salary for the Q400 is a shade over £26K and the TR training bond £13.5K, reducing over 3 years. No repayment from you in respect of the TR bond, although if you skip town before the bond is up, Barclays will come and hunt you down as it is financed through them with a secured loan.

In respect of the NI bias, I think this is because they find BHD a difficult base to recruit for on a long term basis. The situation with CI is a little different due to the restrictions placed on giving work to those with residency rights only.

[EGTC]

I am a flying virgin, never been at the controls of a plane before, just served tea and coffee for a while now and at 25 years old I feel that there are gonna be loads of 18/19 year olds fresh out of doing their A levels to compete with.
Unfortunately the minimun age for application is 20, so that rules me out :(

[Audio]

[quote]he situation with CI is a little different due to the restrictions placed on giving work to those with residency rights only.[/ci]

Ive got to tell you i love that law now :D, so look like they want some based in the CI then.

anyone from CI applying?

[Biggles_77]

I know the first stage of tests are maths & physics to AS Level.
Are they questions that require a calculator or can they be done off the top of your head ?

[Quincy M.E.]

I fully appreciate that sponsorship schemes today are different to those run in the pre 9/11 days and serve as an enabler to a career as a pilot rather than a free-ride. However I can not feel anything but dissapointment at the structure of the Flybe offer.

Speaking as one of the church mice contingent of wanabbees (ie poor as) this scheme is not going to help me in any way that I can see. I have no means of providing the 40K in securites nor do I have access to the remaining funds without taking on an unsecured loan which I don't think the bank would do.

Much better are the recently run Oxford shemes whereby all the neccessary finding is accessed via the bank without the need for securities. I went for those but I don't think I will bother with Cabair/Flybe's.

[just_go_to]

Quincy,

I'd double check the HSBC loan available through places like Oxford. I believe they now need security of some sort. It seems historically they were unsecured but they changed that.

Sorry to be a kill-joy.

[Quincy M.E.]

Hi

I have checked about the HSBC loan at Oxford and was briefed when I went to the 'trials'; there is no need for security in the sense of signing away your parents house etc.

[just_go_to]

Quincy,

That's really good news and the opposite of what their Finance Director told me a month ago.

All is not lost then!

JGT

[Quincy M.E.]

Hmm, well I don't mean to counteract what the FD says but that is the impression I got.

I am refering specifically to the sponsorships (eg TC and Excel) not to the APP (which does require security). If I had security I would forget the sponsorships and get myself to a FTO. But I don't so I am stuck.

[just_go_to]

I was discussing APP with him - all makes sense now!

Anyway back on thread-

Has anyone spoken to anyone at Cabair regarding financing of the £37,644 personal contribution?

[alfaaloop]

Have to agree with Quincy on this one.After recieving pack in the post all looked good unti I read the finance part.£38000 from you and £24000 from them,re-payable all from a salary of 25K when employed.This rules me out from the start;the maths just don't add up!

[kurty]

Hello,

I'm going to flying 6 hours to EGLL for these assesments. Does anyone know if the 17th is for everyone at the same time? Will the other stages be very close together is accepted?

Cheers

[Dave Martin]

Alfaaloop,

Agreed. Nice of them to put the offer on the table, and certainly any offer of employment prior to training is a fantastic thing to have, but....

...having to repay that much cash on a pretty average salary, all the while being at the bottom of the food chain should any downsizing come....Just not so attractive.

I get the impression its a scheme that will be very attractive for those who can already put the cash together for the course. For those that can't it doesn't really open any doors in the classic meaning of a "sponsrship"

Not after this for the salary, but if I can't get the training paid off in 7 years then the whole business looks grim.

[Megaton]

Re-arrange this well known sentence: point the missing!

With FlyBE you would have a job unlike hundreds of other wannabes. Furthermore, you won't stay at the bottom of the seniority list for very long at all so if there was any downsizing you'd be secure And in case you hadn't noticed, FlyBE is expanding very quickly with a Dash 8 being delivered at the rate of approx one per month for the next couple of years. Oh and there are the Emb 195s on order. Also, how long do you think it would take to get to command and what is the salary then? No idea? Have a look on ppjn.

When the industry takes a downturn inrecruiting (which it will) you'll be fighing over jobs like this. You'll be fighting over any job, in fact.

[Dave Martin]

Fair points, but the fact is, for those of us for whom sponsorship is a necessity, this partial access to a loan, followed by an average salary can't really get us far at all.

Compared to the recent Jarez or OAT schemes, as I said, this is really a scheme for those who already have most of the cash together and simply need the extra loan and the job guarantee.

It's not to knock the course, but it doesn't open anywhere near as maony doors as the 3 previous schemes have.

[Quincy M.E.]

Dave

Roger that. The OAT ones are 100% better. It is the difference between being able to train (OAT) or not (Cabair). There is nothing I can do at the moment other than keep playing the lottery. Plus time is ticking for me on the age front. :ugh:

[oleocookie]

I too was disgusted when I opened my application pack, I mean a guaranteed job is all well and good but how can they still call this 'sponsorship' when it doesn't help anyone who can't get the money together?

I also think why can't they do a 3day assessment block instead of making people pay for 3 return flights, travel, accomodation, £60, then £120 (that's if your lucky enough to get through to the 3rd phase!)

Also, anyone applying with less that 60hrs but the ATPL's done?

Oleocookie

[Quincy M.E.]

Yeah I like the way that they charge you £160 just to apply! What other industry would do that?!:yuk:

I ended up forking out £500 to apply for the OAT TCX shceme. (200 in OATs pocket and 300 for class 1).

Others may flame me with the usual platitudes such as '..if you really want it you will put up with it....' etc etc but it is unfair that FTOs charge for applications especially when one considers that the overall cost of the course is in the region of 60k. I know recruitment is expensive but other industries (with very similar recruitment/assesment prcesses) don't charge.

I can not afford to attend all these assesments especially as the chances of getting through are so minimal (6 places for Flybe).

[Megaton]

Last time I looked FlyBE was a commercial airline. It's not there to help anyone but the owners get some return on their investment. Nobody is forcing you to apply for these schemes. If you don't like the terms, don't apply, simple as that. It was only 4 years ago that experienced pilots were being laid off. Profit margins in the airline business are extremely slim and FlyBE naturally expects a return on its investment.

[Kevinoh]

Does anyone know roughly how many applications they recieve for these sponsorships? It sounds like a lot of potential applicants will be deterred from applying for finanicial reasons.
Any ideas??

[Quincy M.E.]

Ham Phisted

Just the kind of reply I was expecting! ;)

Every company has commercial interests but they don't charge people to apply for jobs. The aviation industry has got the wanabees by the balls cos they are so desperate to fly. The airlines are taking advantage of this desperation by passing on the costs of recruitment to the applicants rather than absorbing them as a business cost. Very canny but very exclusive.

You are correct in your assumption that I do not have to apply; which is why I am not going to.

[alfaaloop]

Quote:

Profit margins in the airline business are extremely slim and FlyBE naturally expects a return on its investment.


They are not really investing anything.YOU are paying the lions share and YOU have to pay back every penny of the money they will LEND you.In return,they retain their staff for a minimum of 5 years and if you do want to move on before that they still get all their money back.It's a win-win situation for them.

We all accept that to get started in this,our dream career,is going to cost,and cost big.But there is a point where that cost is just to high and this offer,for most,is.
Saying that,everyones circumstances are different and if you are in a position to raise the cash then go for it-ultimately you will be flying for an airline and that's where we are all trying to get to,but for the time being I will have to continue on the pay-as-you-go route and join the waiting masses with 250hrs.

[Dogbert]

AFAIR, the questions were about as stated, i.e. AS level, although I would say anyone who can deal with GCSE math will cope. No calculators are allowed, nor are they necessary; rough working on paper was allowed I think. speed/time/distance covers most of it, but there are general maths questions as well. It's all multiple guess too, so the answer is always in front of you, albeit beside 4 other wrong ones. The hardest thing I found about it was the time pressure; you can't afford to get hung up on a question. As to applicant numbers, last year Tim Sharland (one of the cabair chaps, and one you will probably have to impress at interview in the 3rd stage) mentioned during his intro that the 50 or so at the 2nd stage had been picked from "several hundred"; make of that what you will.

cheers,
Dogbert

[fly20]

sorry to interupt the flow... but has anyone still not recieved their application pack? i'm still waiting even though i emailed on the first day the ad came out on website.

[TheFlyingDJ]

I have got it. Terms are quite extended. If FlyBe does not hire you soon after completion, there is something in the contract about a 2 year holding pool. So you pay a lot thousands and if you're not selected in 2007 you have to wait till 2009 before you can leave?

i'm still waiting even though i emailed on the first day the ad came out on website

Mee too, the first day, got the pack in on wednesday.

[fly20]

got mine now :) can't apply tho cos dont finish uni till june and course starts in march, maybe next yr...

[r.w.anderson]

Hi

Ive been trying to get details of the first set of tests - without any luck - no one tells you anything!!!

Is it the aptitude testing methods like with diagrams, pictures and the likes or is it more geard up to the likes of a maths/physics exam.

Im at uni studying Engineering, do the tests concentrate on any on easpect of the syllabus ie electronics, formulae etc???

Any help would be appreciated cheers
:ok:

[stuharri2002]

ok - just thinking out aloud here:

For this scheme you require a loan of 38000. For starters, since the demise of the HSBC pilot loan scheme, i have no idea where to go to get a loan of this size (HSBC Professional studies loan onlygoes upto 25k)!! Even if i did find a bank willing, a good interest rate would be approx 6-7%. Working on 7% over 5 years, this means paying back approx 8800 per year. This is approx 680 per month. Add to this the 330 for paying back course costs equals 1010 per month. As has been previously stated approx salary is approx 25000 + 2500 sector pay equals 27500. After tax and NI approx 1600 per month. Then, in my case, take off student loan and loan for PPL equals 1300 per month. So ow do i live on 300 a month, what about rent and bills, food etc. Even those of you who have no student loan of PPl debt you still have to live off of 500-600 a month. How?? I am currently an aero engineer taking home approx 1500 net a month and its still difficult - rent, bills, car, food etc.
Unless you have 38k in cash in your pocket i just dont see how anyone can afford to do this!!!

thoughts??

stu

[G-MANN]

Buy a lottery ticket!!!!

G-MANN

[Audio]

yes it is hard for a lot of people to find this money. and pay it off. in some ways its almost better going off on your own. but you hav to admit the 25K or so they put in really helps, if you had the choice in finding a 40K loan and a 60K one which would u want to find?

[small_dog]

Regarding the testing, from my experience, the maths section was to GCSE level (ie no integration/differentiation but a fair amount of arithmatic and some formula manipulation).

The physics paper did go up to AS level and it did require a certain amount of prerequisite knowledge (basic electrical theory and newtonian mechanics are topics I can remember).

I brought AS revision guides for maths and physics to get myself up to speed for the tests.

There was a timed maths section where you were given a varying limited amount of time to answer a question before the next question was read out (30-60 seconds springs to mind). In my opinion, this section is the toughest as you have to be fully comfortable with long div/long multiplication under pressure to do well here.

It will be also be worth bringing along your own lunch to the testing day as the cafe in the building was rather limited.

As with most things, time spent in preparation is seldom wasted.
Good luck to all applying, and if you arent one of the few to be selected, dont get too disheartened, there is more than one way into the right hand seat. :ok:

[Audio]

phase 2 and 3, are they just a day each?
phase 2 just tells you of a day, and phase 3 is on a week starting?

[small_dog]

Phases 2 and 3 are one day each.
The week commencing bit is due to the selectors running a few days of phase 3 during the same week.

[Audio]

thats what i was hoping for.

(its all a matter of time off work)

[AlphaCharlie]

I know the maths on this are the most appealing sums in the world, but as someone said earlier its the difference between you having to ask HSBC for £38,000 compared to £60,000 for the TCX/Excel type schemes at OATs. At least Flybe are putting their hand in their pocket for the remaining sum, and are theoretically 'loaning' you this amount interest free for 6yrs or so until your debt to them is repaid. Also remember that they are a company paying for professional training, so they are not paying VAT on their share, which again saves you a few pounds!

People are always so quick to praise the OATs and CTC style scheme, but none of the airlines in those dip into their pockets to help you up front and as a result they have no real inclination to take you on as an F/O at the end of the day if the market has taken a downturn. At least with the Flybe scheme, you know that they will be fairly keen to get their £20,000 back out of you!

So the sponsorship isn't 100% free like the good old days of BA, but it strikes me that for anyone looking at starting training in the near future that this scheme brings the cost down from the £60,000 for an integrated towards the amount of money you would need to find to do the modular route.

One final thought ... I suggest to you all that if you talk to HSBC about borrowing the money and you can go to them saying that you have a guaranteed job at the end with a starting salary of £26,000 + duty pay and that the company involved are helping out by paying a third of your training costs up front, that you are a lot more appealing candidate for the loan than the guy who has not been through an airline selection process and beaten 300 other people to a place on the scheme but wants £60,000 in the hope that at the end you will walk into a job - seems a bit risky to me!

[Quincy M.E.]

Alpha Charlie

All salient points but I think you are missing the crux of my critism of the Flybe scheme and why the OAT ones are better: namely that the Flybe scheme does not make flying more accessible to people who are financially dissadvantaged like myself. The OAT scheme (for me) is by far the better because it makes the loan available whereas I do not have access to the funds required by Flybe.

Incidentally, the Thomas cook were going to pay for 1/3 of the costs, without requiring repayment.

QED

[Audio]

a lot of people are fegetting the secuirty required of £40,000 in case you dont make the grade, or leave early. where are most people going to get that from.

(this is different from the 38,000 or so you put into the course)

[AlphaCharlie]

The funds being made available for the TCX/Excel type schemes are being made available to you by HSBC through a loan negotiated by OATs. HSBC and Cabair have the same arrangements. If you are going to attend an integrated course at Cabair you can apply for the same loan just as you can at OATs. Also the amount required for the Flybe scheme is under the £40,000 cut off point at which HSBC start wanting hard guarantees (i.e your parents house). Below that amount they generally seem happy with a parents signature.

The Flybe scheme just hasn't done all the leg work for you and got the loan forms ready for you sign, you just have to prepare a simple business type plan and talk to HSBC yourself.

As for the Flybe guarantee, again its simply a parent's signature that is required if you have no major assets (ie a house) yourself.

[Audio]

and if for some reason you fail, ect then its bye bye parents house.

[AlphaCharlie]

So if you fail at OATs with a loan from HSBC, how are you going to pay the bank back? I am guessing, even though the loan might be fully unguaranteed, that you might get a job doing what you are already trained/qualified in, or even at Tesco's or somewhere, so that you have some form of income before HSBC come after you for everything you have!! Therefore, I am presuming that this is also what you would do if you parents had signed a form (not giving HSBC their house, but a simple guarantee form saying that they could make the payments if you failed to) before HSBC started asking them to make payments on your behalf.

Anyway, rather than nit picking about the finer points of securities on a huge bank loan, I am sure that anyone who has made it through either the OATs, Cabair, CTC, Jerez or anyone else's pre-selection process has what it takes to complete the course with flying colours. Why else would HSBC give unsecured loans? Because they trust that the preselection will weed out those for might fall at the first hurdle!

But the big if, is always what will the job market be like in 13 months time when I graduate, and will I be good enough to get one of those few jobs that are around at the time for low houred pilots?

But hey, this is aviation ... and we are all crazy enough and keen enough to take that risk because we want to fulfil that dream! All I am trying to say, is the financing on the Flybe scheme should not be enough to put you off from applying, especially if you are already considering getting a loan from HSBC to go to OATs! Whether its Cabair, OATs, TCX with OATs, Excel with OATs, Flybe with Cabair, CTC Wings, at the end of the day you will pay for you licence in full, its just clever ways of trying to help you spread that cost up front and for the next few years, and to me, whilst it might not be the best deal that ever graced the planet as far as pilot sponsorships/cadetships go, I think an interest free and VAT free loan from an airline for a third of your training costs is a darn sight better than 2% above base! Now I am not saying that the OAT airline schemes are not good as well, they just do the maths in a different way, you just need to be flexible to see that other ways can work as well, and be prepared to put in a bit of leg work with HSBC yourself to secure the financing.

[Quincy M.E.]

AlphaCharlie

I know what you mean and I for one would expect to pass the course if selected but the problem is that as I understand it security is required for Flybe. And I don't have any.

[747boy]

On the Flybe prospectus it says

'This document requires the provision of security by way of gurantees acceptable to Flybe of up to 40,000'. These gurantees
are to cover costs repayble to Flybe should the candidate fail...'

it then goes on

'The balance of the course fees (i.e. 37,000) will be met by the selected candidate.

Does this mean you need to pay the 37,000 plus give a gurantee for 40,000 or are they refering to the same amount.

Thanks

[Audio]

i belive it means you give them 37,000 for your training, and have gurantee(s) to the value of 40,000 on top, which are only payable if you fail or quit.

[FlayinSpanner]

Hey all, just got an email inviting me to stage two, but they have moved the date FORWARD to the 15th instead of 17th. I hope nobody had made plans. Luckily I'm too broke to even consider going anywhere!! :-p

Time to start cramming for all those lovely test/questions etc.

Does anybody know how many people are getting through to each stage?

[P Mitchell]

Can those of us who have not received an email assume we have been unsuccessful then? Not much notice to organise flights etc if you have to, esp since its now on the 15th.

[yellowbert]

Hi, got an email yesterday evening saying that I'm through too.

Had a look at the previous years threads regarding the application process and it looks like around 60 people attended the 2nd phase out of 350 odd applications - don't know how true that is tho.

Anybody know from previous years what we can expect from the physics and maths - not sure what bits to revise??

Goodluck

[P Mitchell]

Got the PFO letter this morning. I could write an essay as to why I genuinely feel hard done by but I shant lower the tone. Im going to take a step back and laugh at the farcical depths to which this industry has plunged in the last 5 years. Its lunacy of the highest degree.

[Megaton]

Come on then, why do you feel hard done to? Did you get a chance to look at everyone else's applications? Do you know the background of all those that applied? If not, can you not concede that there may, just possibly, have been people out there who's application were more attractive than yours - perhaps not by much but by just enough to give them the edge.

I hope this doesn't sound condescending because it isn't meant to but being able to critically analyse your weaknesses, faults and strengths for that matter is a very useful skill in the aviation industry.

Besides, general feeling on here seems to be that the FlyBE sponsorship isn't as valuable as perhaps it once was?

[rod_1986]

Hey, got the acceptance letter for stage 2 this morning. Know I sound like an ungrateful s.o.b, but don't think I'm going along with it, on reflection the finances just don't work out for me and the brought forward dates are a real pain.

Anyway, am at stage 3 of CTC too, so hopefully that'll work out despite the reported 2% pass rate. It sounds like the best ab initio scheme around at the mo, save from winning a large sum on the lottery...

Good luck to you guys going for flybe, let us know how things progress.

[CAB1]

Hi also got the stage 2 letter this morning, to be honest I was a little surprised getting through having applied last year and did not even make the second stage. (Not got alevel maths or physics and a degree in business studies). My circumstances have not changed much just 6 hours more logged! Does that mean the app numbers are down?

Been saving like a mad man to go to oxford next year but will probably go along for it anyway despite having to fork out another £60 on selection! The “conditional” job offer at the end is the best thing about it and I will not have to borrow as much from kind folks at hsbc!

[redED]

So what are those of you that were successful looking at in preperation for the written aptitude examinations in Mathematics and Physics ?

When they say GCSE and AS level i presume they're refering to triangles, circles, power, work, energy . . . ?

Any advice from those that have been through the process themselves would be much appreciated (from all of us)!

[FlayinSpanner]

I bought one of those revision books to get my head back along to that level.

It has been a very long time since I did that level of maths or physics. I reckon they are gonna throw problems at that level, but not expect you to know how to do all that stuff like differentiate etc! That would be a little too much and not relevant. But you never know!

Im also really concerned about the finances. I must admit I have been a prize cock and not realised the severity of the security.
:suspect:

[yellowbert]

Hi All,

Thought I'd start a new thread regarding the Flybe Stage 2 Maths and Physics tests as there isn't a dedicated thread so far.

Basically, It would be great to get some advice from anyone that has already experienced the Flybe selection process, in terms of what can be expected in the second stage tests.

I believe we have 3 tests: -

Maths
Physics
Aural maths/physics

If anyone can give us an idea of what subjects are covered in each test - it would be much appreciated. I don't suppose there are any past years test papers out there anywhere are there??

Kind Regards,
yellowbert

[A320rider]

it is all bullock, as long you can pay or show evidence you have cash on a bank account, I wouldn't worry to much...

it is all about $$$

[FlayinSpanner]

Being discussed on the post Flybe sponsorship (if you can call it that) stage two... (http://pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196988)

[r.w.anderson]

Hi is there anyone else coming from Scotland or the likes to sit the 2nd stage Flybe exams?

I aint got a scoobie of what to exepct????aaarrrggghhhh!!!!

What is the aural stuff all about?

Im an engineering student and cant do math without a calculator total NIGHTMARE!!

Anyway c u guys there best of luck

if anyone knows anything about the tests let us know!!

cheers:ok:

[FlayinSpanner]

It is EXACTLY that...

You should be able to get a loan (unsecured) for the £38K. That is if you are fortunate to have a positive bank balance, and can take a years repayment holiday on any other commitments you might have. You then have a seperate contract to arrange. This is the providing the security of up to £40K. House, parents house, baby brother, access to the wife or perhaps your soul. If any of these could be considered worth that then that would be a good guarantee. Or perhaps just a signature from a sponsor (parent) that they will recover any repayment you cant if you leave the company/get sacked within the bond period.

:ok:

You have got to love this game

[Crazypilot A]

maybe next yr...

I am betting that this sponsorship will be moved from cabair to fte jerez soon :=

[Rob82]

Hi all,

I've been sucessful at getting through to the 2nd phase of the flybe 'sponsorship' and just wondering how many others on here were sucessful?

Does anyone know what the dress code for the tests are, i don't wanna turn up suited and booted only to find everyone in jeans and a tee shirt, lol.

Cheers

Rob

[king rooney]

Hi all,

Does anybody out there know the answer to this question,

The corespondance from CCAT says that the standard of the phase 2 exam will be A/S level.

Does this mean AS as in advanced subsiduary, ie below full A level standard,

or Advanced/ Special, as in full A level standard or above?

Cheers,

[Rob82]

Hi,

i'm guessing that its AS level as in below a level.
maths side can't be that hard as you can't use calculator, i recently went through ctc's selection and the maths test was simple.
Its the physics side that i'm a bit uncertain on because its such a broad subject they could ask anything.

Rob

[Rob82]

Lol
yeah i was gonna turn up suited / booted anyway just in case. Gotta look smart even if it is only to sit down and take tests.

[Atreyu]

yeah deffo suited up. Even if they are doing like sim checks or flight tests, when you work for them you'll be wearing a suit so to speak, i wore a suit for my air atlantique sponsorship tests, sim and flight tests and its 'landed' me an interview so i would say yes your image is important ;)

Iain

[Atreyu]

yeah its 'half' of an A Level, basically what you would do in year 12. Its not much tougher than GCSE! Trust me im fresh outta 6th Form! :P

[king rooney]

Tracksuit bottoms and a string vest for me.

[CheesyRobMan]

I'll be there in my suit! Like redED said, nothing to lose...

[Rob82]

see u all there tomorrow then

[redED]

Well . . . . . . . anyone got THE email yet?

[yellowbert]

Not me.......

anyone else?? Here's hoping ! ......

[FlayinSpanner]

Not yet.

He did say they would be working through the night to decide and I noticed that the two girls up the front were marking the papers after we had done them, so it shouldn't be too long.

Question is have they already drawn a short list of those they want and they just want that backed up with exam performance, or is this phase going to be purely on exam results? Spoke to a couple of guys who had not done maths/physics in a long time and were a bit unsure as to there performance. But I guess they were warned!!!

Must admit that paper two really got me rattled! The other two had more than enough time, but that one would be the one to let me down I think. Tried to use the extra working time from the last 5 table questions to go back and finish the others!!!

Good luck

:ok:

and the winners are.......

[redED]

If i remember correctly he said emails and letters would be sent out first thing this morning.

(Fingers still crossed though)

I agree with you FlayinSpanner, parts 1 and 3 were easy, but 2 did certainly throw up some problems, guess that's what it's ther for though, to sort the men from the boys.

I don't think they'll have any idea of who they want yet, an application form and some maths and physics tests give them an insight into the candidates, but i think it'll come down to the interviews. (Not sure of the relivence of an essay but their rules i suppose.)

Good luck everybody!

[king rooney]

Have just spoken to Cabair on the phone. Apparently Timmy Sharland is still going through the marks and will send e-mails out either after 5pm today or tomorrow.

So we all have a stay of execution!

[redED]

Just got an email from Tim! :D

Hope everyone else was successful!

[FlayinSpanner]

congrats mate!!

I have seen a couple of posts about acceptance/rejection but I still have not heard anything. Assuming that to be more likely that I didn't make the cut!!

Best of luck to those who are succesful!

[martyfly]

Hi all

Just wondering who was successful? Unfortunately I wasn't! I knew when I left that I hadn't done enough, first Math test went ok for me then it went steadily down hill from there on out!:{

Oh well, you know the saying; if at first you don't succeed try and try again! It was a valuable learning experience and I wish all of the lucky ones all the best, everyone I talked to while I was there were amazing people all deserving of a place!! :ok:

All the best Martyfly

[FlayinSpanner]

Still hadn't heard anything so I called Tim at CCAT and got the news......

Didn't make it!!!

Oh well, still got a place at Jerez, but just not sure who I'm gonna have to kill/sleep with to pay for it.

He did mention (if anyone is interested) that based on the test results they would only be inviting people who scored over 86% in the three tests back to the next stage. Not sure how many people that is going to apply to, but best of luck any way.

He is currently drafting letters of advice etc, including if he wants people to apply to train at the school anyway.
i.e. Anyone who has got £70k burning a hole in their pocket!!! :)

:ok:

[jpg27]

Hi,

Found out last week that I made it through to the final 6, to start in Jan! If any of the other 5 that made it through would like to get in touch, send me pm.

jpg27