CORK

[840]

I'm trying to get a feel for the new rules, but I think this is OK as it fits in with:-

So you may start a new thread relative to Airports with just their name. As I have done before closing the 'old' ones.

and I don't think it falls foul of

NO airline websites or booking facilities are allowed to be posted. No advertising of any kind too.

I guess it'll get removed if it's a problem.

No. Just changed to CAPITAL letters


Anyway, my rumour for Cork Airport is that SN Brussels Airlines will be restarting Cork-Brussels at some point in the new year.

[Tom the Tenor]

Looks like Aer Arann are making a stand. Up from three to four on weekdays on ORK-DUB from the end November after FR begin their schedule to Dublin. Still nothing like the current nine daily of course but at least it is a move forward again and complements nicely the new extra Sunday flight to Belfast.

Now, if only CATII was put right! ;)

The SN Brussels flights worked fine with good loads. Could not go wrong with 2 or 3 flights a week. They would get a Cead Mile Failte from me, anyway! :)

[EI-MICK]

this CAT 2 bull is annoying,their aircraft seem to be certified but why arent they shooting them,for a pilot to carry out a CAT2 and get certified,a number of 'practice' CAT2's must be carried out with a certified crew member and the weather doesnt have to be that bad,so whats the hold up??

[eastjimmy]

re the news that sn brussels may start up the ork brussels route again, id like to voice my delight at this news, its a winner for sure 3 or 4 times a week. actually saw brian crowley in terminal today cant help thinking it would be of benifit to himself and mr covney etc... it ll be great for me as itll have me home in rebel country in mid afternoon rather than evening time.. going on past timings..... on a side issue i traveled on the fr to lpl today id say only 20 people on it??? loads always good on other ocasions. my company paid fr 0.01 cent for the flight and 10 euro on tax... big money for mol from me today!!!! i read on another post about swiss doing a zuich cork flight during the summer just gone.. how did that go for them cant beleve i did nt even hear about it.. does nt say much for advertisement ehh....
rgs
ej

[MarkD]

TTT and eastjimmy

Let's hope FR don't give SN the same welcome they usually give now they are all about Cork.

[840]

I'll just clarify what that all I heard is that they will be back next year.

I don't know if there will be an increase in frequency [I doubt it though]. I strongly suspect that it will be a summer only service. Probably, it will run for longer than the two months it ran for last year.

[eastjimmy]

with the advent of the fr move to cork i for one would whole heartedley welcome any new routes ex cork no matter who they compete with. in the end it means more selection for the cork public. and at the end of the day it will mean more a/c based in ork. which means more jobs for us ex pats??. i was delighted that sn brussels tried the cork thing but was very disapointed they didnt continue it into the winter. i was looking at the fr web site this morning and there are a few routes that fr could give a go from cork in the future.. ie nantes, manchester, luton, glasgow, paris, brussels, manchuria, malaga + one or two other regional english destinations that escape my mind. id be interested on others opinions on the above. i know they are going head to head with other carriers but competition will be of good service to the traveling public.. its ripe for the picking in my opinion... whats yours,
rgs
ej:ok:

[840]

Does anybody know what Aer Lingus' plans for summer 2006 are?

At the moment if you try to book, the same timetables that were used in Summer 2005 show up except that Munich isn't bookable.

Last summer it was Faro that was the poorly performing route - as seen by the fact that it was replaced by Warsaw for the Winter season.

Munich seemed to finally produce decent numbers after a slow start. I would be a little surprised if it was dropped.

[Tom the Tenor]

Yet more headaches on the horizon for Cork Airport?

Drainage work has begun on the grass abeam the TNT facility at Cork so there is no access from the main ramp to taxiway Alpha to runway 17. Looks like CATII ILS to runway 17 will be out of action again?

Meanwhile, it was lashing out of the heavens last Sunday night as the Aviajet/Air Atlanta A310 on Stand 13 disembarked her pilgrim passengers from Lourdes. What a welcome home. The poor pax must have been drenched to the skin.

Later the same evening the FR907 arrived quite late after 11 pm and was parked on Stand 5. The quickly following EI725 had to wait for some time on a taxiway before getting the same stand as her two sisterships were parked for the night on Stands 6, 7 and the Malev on Stand 8. Just what you need so late at night when everyone is getting tired.

Elsewhere, the dumbing down continues. FR did not operate the 905/6 yesterday and she is not listed either for 18th and 19th October and the now infamous FR903/4 is not listed for the four Wednesdays from 9th November. Mind you, snn flights to STN are also being affected with some cancellations.

Can anyone give details when Ryanair last cancelled any Cork flights? Seems to me that Cork pax are being softened up for LGW?

[eastjimmy]

jesus tom you beat me to it. what is going on at ryan air???????? was looking at the web site this morning and inparticular the 20 oct and they are showing just one flight into cork the 901 in the morning. but they are showing three flights out. where are the spare a/c coming from?? ive been a very regular user of ryan air over the past few months and have found them very reliable. but that sort of service is terrible.. i to would like to know whats going on. :confused:

[EI-MICK]

why would the ILS be down during drainage work ?? it will just mean a revert to the old system before taxiway alpha and have the CAT2 hold near taxiway charlie.

[jetstream7]

there are a few routes that fr could give a go from cork in the future.. ie nantes, manchester, luton, glasgow, paris, brussels, manchuria, malaga + one or two other regional english destinations

Now that's an interesting thought... FR to North East China...:rolleyes:

[eoinok]

eastjimmy.

In your particuar case, it is probably a safe bet that all the inbound flites are full, hence there is no seats available for booking.

[EI-MICK]

MOL must of been smiling as he saw the news yesterday,CIE are increasing rail ticket prices by 10% so a cork to dublin return ticket will cost you a pricey 61.50,surely he can beat that!!

[Tom the Tenor]

CAT2 being out of commission due to the drainage works contributed big time to last weekend's disaster of diversions from Cork to Dublin, Kerry and snn. The busiest periods on Friday night and Sunday morning were the times affected and at least 20 flights were lost to Cork. How many thousands of innocent passengers were involved is anyone's guess. Do Cork people count at Cork Airport at all?

Now, this week the weather has been very bad so we can only guess what progress there has been on the drainage and last week the amount of work done appeared to be at a minimum.

If the viz goes below CAT1 with CAT2 off the air in a few weeks time and FR are sending a 737 down from DUB the aeroplane will be heading back again to Dublin. O'Leary wont be hangin' around at Cork waiting for weather to improve. CIE may win this one yet on Cork-Dublin.

Two bird strikes at Cork in the last 10 or 11 days. Both EI A320s, EI-DEA last week and on last Monday again with EI-DEL. Fair amount of damage done to both aeroplanes by all accounts.

I am in despair of Cork Airport these days and the winter schedule has yet to begin.

No doubt there is much guffawing from the the Midwest area at Cork's woes.

[EI-MICK]

its back to CAT 2 status on 24th,the alpha taxiway was closed around stand 9 and 10 thats why no cat2,just looking at the notams.tom what kind of damage was caused?

[Tom the Tenor]

Are you querying the damage caused to the EI A320s by the birdstrikes or the continuing damage to the reputation of Cork Airport caused by diversions and lack of CAT2 in low viz? Either way, pretty bad, eh!?

EI-DEA was parked up at Cork for nearly a week up to some time last weekend when she evenutally left. Aeroplanes parked up for nearly a week dont make money? Damage to EI-DEL must have been somewhat less as she is now gone.

On the positive side the new bit to the short term car park is in use with the new exit points now open for business. This extended facility will come in handy if come next summer the new terminal is still not ready!!!

The priorities are just right? No room for aeroplanes to park overnight but keep packin' the cars in at all costs. Why not put another 50 cents charge on the Car Park at the same time?

Who needs air traffic and passengers to make money?

However, maybe I am being just a tad too cynical now? There really is some good news to celebrate! Jet2 are at last coming to us at Cork as their new flight from Newcastle begins tomorrow.

Let us wish Jet2 lots of success with their new NCL-ORK services. Are the Jet2 737s CAT2? Will be needed!

[tashkurgan]

Any idea when the new terminal will open. I am hearing nasty rumours that it will be 2007.

Re: winter weather & cat 2.. intl connections are now unreliable that i've now taken to flying out of snn to the us.

[EI-MICK]

yes tom the damage i was enquiring about,thanks.yes jet2 will be able to shoot cat2, they can probably actually shoot cat3!!

no it will be open by march/april

[michaelknight]

What's the hang up about CAT II V CAT III??? The normal minima for Cat II is 100ft RA and 300M and for CAT IIIA, 50ft RA and 200M (OK on the Jepps it may be different apt/rwy specific), if you couldn't get in on CAT II but you would get in on CAT III, just a bit of bad luck and you may have to shoot another approach.

Where Cork's let down are the high winds, and thus for the aircraft I fly it makes SFA difference if were are CAT II or CAT III. The X Wind limit being 15kts for autoland. I believe the F100 can limit is far superior in the region of 30-35? (Pls correct if wrong). So if the wind's out of limits for autoland it's back to good old Cat I!! So sometimes you're just not destined to get in!

I don't feel having CAT III capability in Cork will solve all it's problems.

MK

[EI-MICK]

cork doesnt have CAT3 and never will have you seen the terrain profile??? EI and another few use 400m rvr on cat2 at cork,not too sure why,probably insurance reasons etc,airport is cat1 till next week as the drainage works continue and the taxiway is closed around the cat2 hold so that explains the downgrading.michaelknight, the problem is the original decision by a few back-handers and wads of cash to locate it over 500ft asl.

[Faire d'income]

Cork will never be Cat 111 due to it's rather stupid location.

In fact Cork airport management deserve some recognition for the excellent playing of the pathetic hand they were dealt. People should be locked up for the decision that was made ( late '50's I believe ) to locate the airport on some political lackey's field rather than the 2 preferred sites.

They should have started again on a greenfield site instead of starting a new terminal. No doubt business will be good considering the handicaps but a short runway with no hope of expansion, aligned N/S with prevailing westerlies at 500' in a climate with frequent warm sector weather gives too many headaches not least for the passengers. :ugh:

[840]

I'm answering my own question here...

The Aer Lingus timetable for next summer appears to be the same as last summer, except that Warsaw replaces Munich. All these flights are now bookable. However, I know from personal experience that Aer Lingus have been known to make a flight bookable and then withdrawn it from the timetable.

[mark_heg]

Hey is there any pics of the latest development at the terminal or the attachement of the airbridges?
Thanks

[Tom the Tenor]

Sorry, Mark. Do not have a digital cam. Maybe someone else can help? The good news today for Cork is that airbridge number 1 is now in situ. That must be progress! Hope the customers are there next summer to use 'em! ;)

[mark_heg]

Thats cool, I do have a digi cam but since I live in boston it is a bit difficult to take the odd pics of the place :O . Would like to see what it all looks like at this stage out of interest, I know that web site "cork spotters" used to post pics now and then on the development, but of late there hasnt been any new pics. Cheers.

[eoinok]

I took some pics here http://www.flyinginireland.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1142
a few weeks back.

Wondering was there any diversions this week with CAT II out and the rubbish weather that we had??

[Tom the Tenor]

The ILS CAT2 was up again on Sunday, 23rd October. One diversion, a MMZ flight from Faro went to snn but later returned to Cork.

The Mrs was on the FR901 from STN yesterday morning around 8 am. Quite a turbulent approach that made lots of pax very nervous so on landing there was a big bualadh bos from the cabin.

Bualadh bos = a round of applause!

[eoinok]

I thought the only time u get a bualadh bos is on a charter flight!!!
Makes me cringe every time :)

[EI-MICK]

its very annoying, i remember goin to turkey,and when we landed all the scobes down the back were clapping and cheering,suppose it was prob their first and only time on an aircraft

[MarkD]

I was on an EI 321 which landed in a vicious x-wind at ORK some time back - not one for applause myself but by god I joined in that time...

[eastjimmy]

yeah total cringe with the clapping stuff. think its a particular affliction with Italians.....
well half the time its the auto land so its bulagh air bus!!!:D

[EI-CFC]

I thought the only time u get a bualadh bos is on a charter flight!!!

LOL, no. I've come across it on a VS flight to JFK amongst other places (and I was up towards the front! :eek:)

[EI-MICK]

jimmy,
i wouldnt agree thats its autoland all the time.Certainly not in cork, and those aircraft are hand flown/visually whenever the weather allows!!

[eoinok]

The irony of the whole autoland thing is a friend of mine was on a flight into Gatwick there recently, as they were coming into land the aircraft was all over the place, people were getting sick en everything.
When they laneded then the captain came on the tanoy to inform them that they just did a full autoland!!
At the time, I think there was no serious X wind or anything like that.

And we thought that autolands/approaches would be smoother than manual :)

[ryan2000]

Ryanair advertising Cork Dublin service on large billboards all over Cork City and County.

I wonder who's paying for this advertising? Is it what sometimes refered to as marketing support?

[Topcover]

So how long will Aer Arran last on that route ?

[ryan2000]

Aer Arann will be very annoyed if it transpires that Ryanair are getting marketing support to launch the Dublin route. Ryanair will need at leat one extra flight to put them under serious pressure.

Easy Jet holding tough so far on Cork Gatwick, a major battle looms on Cork London routes for the coming winter.

[MarkD]

it's hardly a new route - and since ORK is state owned all RE would have to do is lift the phone to Brussels - after all SNN is already under scrutiny according to the Indo.

[EI-MICK]

well it also seems that easyjet arent going anywhere without a fight, they have been advertising too.

[frogone]

RE: CAT III in Cork, having flown CAT II into Cork yes there are many Rad alt fluctuations on final.

But I remember it being mentioned that one of the runways in Zurich had the same problem, I'm not too sure to what degree, but apparently a metal gantry was exteded from the threshold to give a level surface for proper Rad alt readings.

Possible soloution in ORK, maybe? But that dosen't solve the wind factor.

IR

[EI-MICK]

i see what you mean,i mentioned similar to this before why it wont happen,can ya imagine having pylons erected on the approach to the 17 to hold this gantry?? on approach you have a huge hill, a few gaa pitches and houses!!

[840]

Scheduled Passenger Figures from Cork to/from UK Airports for September

Belfast City 3398
Birmingham 11107
Bristol 1417
Cardiff 2646
Durham Tees Valley 2160
Edinburgh 4327
Gatwick 13957
Glasgow 1171
Heathrow 39604
Leeds Bradford 699
Liverpool 8479
Manchester 10180
Nottingham East Midlands 3759
Southampton 1303
Stansted 38242

Anyone else think that Leeds/Bradford has been looking worryingly light?

[LBA]

LBA needs a low cost airline on the ORK route, you have to remember that bmi only have a once daily ERJ135 flight to ORK, but 699, still doesn't sound particuarly brilliant, bmi charge high fares on the ORK route.

[Jet2LBA]

LBA needs a low cost airline on the ORK route, you have to remember that bmi only have a once daily ERJ135 flight to ORK, but 699, still doesn't sound particuarly brilliant, bmi charge high fares on the ORK route.

Agreed! The absolute lowest fare I have been able to find on LBA-ORK, even when booked months in advance, is around £125. On most days it is even more expensive than this.

Compare this to the £30 return fares available from neighbouring MAN and LPL and you begin to see why passenger numbers are light.

My hope is that Jet2's NCL-ORK proves successful and prompts LS to launch a similar low-cost service from LBA. I would be one customer for such a service (and save me travelling to MAN to get to Cork at a reasonable price!)

[LBA]

I would also be a customer! Jet2 would be a far better option, Im sure they could make a 4 x a week 733 work.

[TheOddOne]

Re the xwind situation: arrived ORK Thurs AM & departed Sat PM, both really windy but straight down 17, so for both of those movements the runway was just right!

I really don't mind a quick hop & a jump from the a/c to the building even in the wind & rain but what I REALLY object to is having to stand in these conditions waiting for a bus to Cork City. In fact, this part of the infrastructure is really broken. There appear to be NO en-route bus services that drop by the airport, you have to take the local type bus into the City, which is a real pain, wastes time and was absolutely HEAVING and not just with jazz fans, but ordinary folk too.

I see jetties are being put in place on the new building, no doubt MOL will refuse to use them like he does everywhere else.

The dep. lounge was crammed full Sat night, the new building won't open a day too soon. I looked at the nice architect's model of it - there doesn't appear to be any provision for bus shelters landside. Perhaps everyone in EI-land prefers a hire car to the bus, pity 'cos the services to West Cork are pretty good (once you get to the City).

And Finally...
The free Wi-Fi service in the dep. lounge has disappeared to be replaced by a BT offering. This seems to charge 10 euros a go, FAR too much, needless to say we didn't use it. Last time there were quite a few people using laptops, we actually booked some more flights while we waited, this time not a single person was on-line.

And yes, I'll put all these commnts in a letter to the folk running ORK.

Apart from that, great!

Cheers,
The Odd One

[MarkD]

oddone

sadly free internet seems to have lasted five minutes pretty much everywhere - you have to pay at YOW too. Is it still free at LHR?

[mark_heg]

Nope I know for sure that they charge you in T4, T-mobile are offering the service but i dont know the charge.
When is the open sky's deal being negotiated again?

[asianfly]

Heard that the new terminal will have the same number of check-in desks as is currently available in the present terminal. If true (and that is a big if), that would strike me as odd to say the least. A visit over any given weekend would highlight that there is an acute shortage of check-in desks.

[EI-MICK]

are you mad,theres definitely going to be 28-30 check in desks

[brian_dromey]

I know Cork has its problems, geographically speaking, however this is not an excuse not to lengthen the runway, look what was done at sea-tac, a whole valley was filled!

However I also believe that the public transport links are weak. This has lead me to ponder a light rail system connecting the airport, to the city, stopping at the black ash p&r, bus station, and kent railway station. Cork then becomes Irelands most integrated transport city. It would be realitively inexpensive, and direct, as most of the route was a railway track at one stage in the past. The run through the city is also direct.

Any one have an opinion, good bad, or indifferent on this service?

[MarkD]

brian_dromey

the gradient would be a big showstopper I would say.

[Tom the Tenor]

As I type Irish Transport Minister Cullen is proclaiming a new dawn in transport infrastructure with more new roads and rail expansion being announced today. Somehow, though, it is hard to ever see any kind of rail to and from Cork Airport. Let us get the airport and airfield infrastructure right first: more ramp, CATIII, some more runway etc.

That is the way to do it, The Odd One. Keep sending in remarks on your experiences at Cork Airport to the managers but may I suggest that you go one step further and send a note of your comments to some of the Cork TDs (MPs). On the government side there is Noel O'Flynn, TD - he likes to think that he is in tune with the goings on at Cork Airport. There is also Micheal Martin, TD who is the present minister for Enterprise. Both may be contacted at Dail Eireann, Leinster House, Dublin 2.

Going political usually gets more attention! Stops heads from being buried in the sand for too long!

There is good news today. The inaugural Aer Lingus flight from Cork to Warsaw took place today. The return flight to Cork landed just a short time ago. The flight will operate three times weekly on Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays. The new destination should, hopefully, do very well.

[840]

The airport wouldn't in itself have enough traffic to warrant light rail, but if it could be integrated into a line to somewhere like Carrigaline, it might have more viability.

Before that though, they need to get the bus situation in order and prove there is a demand for quality public transport to the airport.It's idiotic the way the bus just goes to Parnell Place bus station. For Cork residents, that's next to useless. For visitors it's hardly bringing them anywhere conveient. How many hotels are within 5 minutes walk? The Clarion? The Imperial? Also, it should go to the train station.

Much more important would be the extension of bus lines like the 6 (from Grange) or the 3/9 from Ballyphehane to make them practical for people who work at the airport or want to travel through it. The chances of me buying a bus ticket into town (from Douglas) and them buying another one to get out to the airport are minimal (I'd spend an hour traveling). Extend the 6 by the 2km or so that it needs to reach the airport, and I would definitely be using it.

[brian_dromey]

The Light Rail System, would offer Cork an Integrated transport system, and would not just serve the Airport. It would also connect the Black Ash Park and Ride,future P&Rs and the Bus and Train Systems. Combined with Bus Lanes and an improved City Transport Network it could offer Cork a congestion free future.

Any Car which enters within the bounds of the City Center would have to pay a €10 fee per day, alternivively they could park their car at one of the P&Rs and connect to the system for say €5 a day and have unlimited suburban public transport access.

By the way does any-one know why the Aer Lingus service to WAW had an aircraft change at the last moment? All the passengers (almost full load,if not totally full) could be seen streaming from one A320 to the other, but I don't believe the crews also swapped?

Also noted that the Malev Flight was at least 90% full and the Prague 735 also had very healthy loads.

Does any one know what the payload restrictions might be for an A330/767 on T/A routed out of Cork. It is my belief that 757s would be penalty free from Cork, is this true?

Cheers BD.

[EI-MICK]

i had a family member and her friends bumped off their flight to cork from budapest(overbooked) last week,yet they were the first to check in,not last.they got bumped off because they had the cheapest tickets(travel agent), they then had to fly to dublin and overnight there,what a joke.malev were unwilling to help and pretended not to know anything.

A 757 wouldnt be affected out of cork, a 767 would have only a little penalty.

and runway extension.... forget it,i mentioned why a few weeks ago.

regards,

[MarkD]

brian dromey

LRT would have to go along Centre Park Road to Mahon and Western Road to UCC/CIT/CUH etc. Airport would be way down the list.

As for the hotels - if they care they would set up their own shuttle. If you are staying in a downtown hotel in Toronto you get on a hotel shuttle bus at Pearson.

[840]

MarkD

Hotels were just an example. My principal point was that passengers may want to go somewhere other than the Bus Station.

[eastjimmy]

Hi all
I was on the re flight into cork two nights ago from Birmingham, when we arrived it was really really lashing out of the heavens, and low and behold we parked up down at the stand adjacent to the tnt a/c. iwas up the front of the a/c and could hear the captain giving out about it to the f/o. we all waited for a bit while he said he was on to the atc crowd to try to move closer to the terminal. and after a bit of talking we closed up the a/c and taxied closer to the gate. well done the pilot for his persistance but bloody hell what are the authorities at the airport thinking. we all know that the stands outside the terminal are reserved for aer lingus.. which peeves me but thats another story altogether but surley a very good customer such as re should get better treatment than that. i was figuring the a/c was parking up for the night which may explian why it was sent to the remote posn in the first place but from what i could gather they went to dublin after that. is it asking a lot to position a turn around a/c as close to the building as possible????? if it wernt for the pilot we would have all had the flu!!! well done whom ever you are..
regs ej :ok: :ok: :ok:

[Tom the Tenor]

The ramp at Cork is not controlled by Air Traffic Control but by the Cork Airport Authority. Good for RE to complain. If a closer stand is free there should be no difficulty for an RE to disembark her passengers and then reposition again to another stand for overnight parking etc.

The ILS to runway 35 is out of commission until the end of November. Thankfully, not runway 17 this time!

Sad to note that Cork no longer has an Nottingham East Midlands service with the ending of the bmi baby flights last Saturday. Placing flights to Stansted to one side East Midlands was Cork's first true low cost destination when bmi baby began a few years ago. BA too are now no more at Cork with the ending of the MAN service last weekend. bmi baby's winter schedule sees just one morning flight a day from Manchester. An opening there for Aer Arann to offer an evening service or even a twice daily?

[ryan2000]

Malev used a 737-800 on the Friday morning
service from Cork to Budapest on the last two Friday's due to heavy bookings, a sure sign that the laod factors are rapidly improving, load factors on ORK Warsaw are also very encouraging according to sources at the airport.

[Tom the Tenor]

An Aer Arann Captain kept her crew and passengers aboard her aircraft at Cork yesterday afternoon for around 58 minutes after landing from a flight from either Edinburgh or Dublin.

The aircraft had been given a remote stand, I believe Stand 10, so even in ordinary circumstances the passengers would have had to expect a longish walk back to the arrivals at Cork which is at Stand 5.

However, the circumstances were not ordinary at Cork yesterday afternoon. The wind was blowing gale force in driving and lashing rain.

The Aer Arann Captain sought a stand closer to the terminal to disembark her passengers but none was available and as the wind was raging and the rain was lashing the Captain decided safety first rather than open the doors and allow her passengers to be blown away down the ramp in the wind and rain.

So, it took up to 58 minutes for a closer stand to become available before the passengers were disembarked.

Top marks to the Aer Arann Captain who put the safety of her crew and passengers first.

The weather has been severe at Cork in the last month. Why does Cork Airport believe it has so little duty to her fee paying passengers in such bad weather as we are experiencing at the moment when some airliners are regularly so remotely parked?

It is time for Cork Airport and her customers, the airlines and passengers, to sort out this lunacy out once and for all?

Cork people deserve better.

[ryan2000]

This winter will be the busiest ever at Cork Airport. Last night a Monday night in November the terminal was packed with passengers. The ramp was full of aircraft. The early morning and mid afternoon also gets very busy.

We are likely to see many more repeats of the Aer Arann incidident in the coming months. It's a disgrace to see Servisair and Airport Management each blaming each other for not providing buses.



This "t'will do" culture has been tolerated at Cork for far too long. We are now seeing the result of years of neglect,lack of investment and downright apathy at the airport. Fair play to the Aer Arann Captain for refusing to allow his passengers be treated in such a disgraceful manner.

[EI-MICK]

well done to her
i agree with the bus situation,if servisair organised a bus, the rent-a-cops probably wouldnt let it through the gate beacuse it's not organised by Aer Rianta and then again theyl blame each other

[airhumberside]

As mentioned elsewhere, Air Wales will start EXT-ORK 4 times a week in winter, 6 times a week is summer. Flights begin in January

[840]

Does anyone know what the loads have been like on the new Newcastle route and whether it has had an impact on the loads to Durham Tees Valley?

[mark_heg]

Do CAA intend to extend the ramp area at all. There isnt really a need for all the airbridges but it would be better if there was much more room for aircraft to park and passangers to walk to a gate?

[hafez]

Why don't they just make a covered walkway to the terminal from the ramps. Wouldn't that solve alot of hassle :D

[ryan2000]

A covered walkway was to be in place by last summer but as often happens at Cork it never materialised. I'm told it will now be in place for next year in order to ensure that passengers who will have to walk the long distance from the new terminal to the stands in front of the old termnal will not get soaked to the skin.

A similar walkway has just been constructed as a link beteween the new terminal and the multi-story car park.

Latest word is that Ryanair will increase the Cork frequency to 5 per day early in the New Year !

[840]

ryan2000->Which route will be going up to 5x a day?

By the new year, there should already be 9 Ryanair flights a day in Cork

3x STN
3x DUB
2x LGW
1x LPL

[Radar Identified]

Hi All,

While on the subject of cork airport and as a regular user of the airport just a few comments. I know a lot of this has already been said but heres my twopence worth anyway!

I feel entirely sorry for the passengers who end up having to walk up to five minutes past empty stands to stand 13 or so with some of the severe weather we have had recently. The people who get the brunt of this are the cabin crew boarding the aircraft or the ground crew on the airport side. As far as I am aware airlines have no choice where they are parked but seem to get all the bad press about parking as if as recently mentioned in a newspaper article they wanted to save money by parking on the cheap stands. They really can conjure up some strange stories.

I have heard of aircraft repositioning to a different stand to pick up her passengers, but that just covers up the problem as this is not always an option. Fair dues to the crew though.How much would it cost to put a perspex tunnel along the walkway at cork airport as so commonly seen elsewhere?. I am sure at this stage the passengers would even cough up a few euros for it.

ILS 35 dissappearing for the majority of the winter! Is it just me or would this be better served happening in the summer months.

Staff parking in the airport is inadequate as from my experience there often is not staff parked there. I have heard recently of an airline captain being clamped, he did not have a sticker YET but had another means of identifying himself in the window, a call to the appropriate operator may have been a less severe method. A quick check of the majority of the windscreens in the Car park shows that a lot of the passengers are using this as free parking.
Anybody who has done the walk to work in the rain from the car park will have an interesting day in work to say the least.

I heard it mentioned earlier that Ryanairs introduction to cork is great. I disagree with this but everyone is entitled to their opinions. Brings more competition. Again not true, unless that is that the new definition of competition is allowing a very wealthy airline operate a route at a loss i.e 1 cent for a year or so until other people run out of money. I am sad to see the threat to Aer Arann in cork. I think their frequency, flexible ticketing, return check in and acceptance of passengers at -15mins will be a loss to the business community! Although they are far from perfect my general impression is that it is improving. I think it would be terrible to see a home grown airline like aer arann who have made great strides recently be shoved out of cork by big brother ryanair. There are a lot of cork people employed with this airline both directly and inderectly. I think if there is a reduction of this airline in Cork it is not good in the long run for other airlines also. Strange as it may sound.

The fact still remains that Cork people and arriving tourists are getting the short end of the straw while a lot of faffing goes on. Where are the priorities. I know a lot of people would rather see a new walkway a better selection of grub in the airport than a shiny new terminal!

Just my thoughts and i am fully open to comment or correction.

Aer Arann CAT 2- no excuse it should be organised as an operator out of cork. They have been dealing with the weather long enough to know that it is imperative come winter -or summer mind you -that you are CAT 2 Qualified. Especially out of one of your main bases!

Traffic layout- the less said the better. If i see one more car driving the wrong way to the airport i.e against the traffic. There will be an accident soon mark my words. Also some people seem to think that there is not a speed limit. I am not a prude 20 is ridiculous but 80+ also ridiculous.

Anyway fingers tired now must go.
Keep safe

[MarkD]

Radar

sadly as Jetmagic showed the "business community" in Cork aren't great at supporting their own once price becomes an issue.

RE is now prioritising places like LRT and IOM where competition from FR is less likely.

[neidin]

Heard in Dublin today that new Ireland - US Bilateral agreed in principle in Washington this morning subject to EU Transport Ministers agreement after final EU-USA Bilateral talks from 14-16 Nov.

Cork and Knock are being permitted direct USA-CORK scheduled services on an open basis. Of course this does not mean there will be any Cork - USA flights. Just it helps!

Shannon stopover to stay to Oct 2008. Dublin & Shannon stops as per now.

Kerry has been cut out completely - not allowed scheduled or charter flights. So Kerry will be likely the only airport in the entire EU that will not be allowed have direct flights to USA after the Openskies is agreed. Fat boy at Kerry will not be pleased.

All of this subject to Transport Ministers agreeing SNN as a special case.

[840]

Interesting.

I thought they might go for a compromise where for every landing in Dublin there would have to be one at another Irish airport.

It would have given Shannon some shelter at the same time as freeing things up a bit for Dublin.

On that description, Dublin is still getting shafted.

And surely, the transport ministers won't allow that Kerry clause.

[mark_heg]

Hmmm I think AA or Delta may consider bos-cork and ny-cork respectively. What does "open-basis" actually mean? After 2008 cork or dublin will be able to over take shannon and have as many trans atlantic flights without that futile stop ever?

[EI-MICK]

kerry?? have you lot seen the runway?? a 737 needs TOGA to get out of there if not,a very high N1/EPR setting.great news bout the stopover

[ryan2000]

Ryanair to go to 5 per day on ORK DUB, I feel sorry for Aer Arann but they did begin to lose passengers due to their diversion rate earlier this year.

They told the media that their crews were CAT2 rated but when push came to shove few if any of their pilots carried out any CAT 2 approaches during the year. Does anyone know the reason for this contradiction. Is it due to the fact that they have such a large variety of ATR aircarft?

This a receipe for frequent diversions when Cork gets clamped in with low cloud.

Neidin, does this mean that Cork could start negotiating with a US carrier for 2006 or 2007, once an open skies agreement is signed.

I heard that EI were looking at ORK JFK and even carried out detailed studies of the runway etc. Interesting times ahead.

[Radar Identified]

Does anyone know the reason for this contradiction. Is it due to the fact that they have such a large variety of ATR aircarft?


ATR 42 + 72. Cockpits and procedures identical bar a tiny few extras on the 72. Wouldn't strike me as a large variety. I will however accept that maybe i am somehow misunderstanding your point

[EI-MICK]

if im not mistaken, i think i heard an arann inbound to DUB anouncing to Dub tower on approach last thurs night ''this is a practice CAT 2 and we dont require signal protection'' im 95% certain it was an arann!

[mark_heg]

Does anyone know if a us airliner can start operations out of cork ? It would be great to see a 757 operate bos to ork or ny to ork some time soon.

[eick320]

EI have announced internally that the have more plans for shorthaul routes ex cork for the summer of 2006, the announcement of a 4th overnighting A320 should come shortly. However in the same breath they advised they do not have any plans of flying transatlantic routes ex cork for the coming future. So the future looks bright for europe ex cork.

[840]

Can someone clarify the situation on which planes can operate transatlantic out of Cork.

As I understand it, the A330-200, A319 and 757 can all operate tranatlantic with a full compliment of passengers and freight. All other planes would need to fly with either passengers or freight removed.

What is the situation with the A350 and the 787?


BTW It doesn't surprise me that Aer Lingus have no plans to operated transatlantic out of Cork. They don't have enough planes to operate all the routes they want out of Dublin, so Cork is well down their priority list.

[mark_heg]

Could Aer lingus not start using a high range A319 option to fly to the bos / ny that seems like the best option. Pilots that are currently operating the A320 could easily operate the A319. Any other us airliners that would operate to cork ?? how about CO or AA using their 757's . I wish AA would use their current 757 to relocate and fly bos to cork, snn already has EI using their A330 from bos to snn. I would definitely pay the extra $60 to support the flight!!

[EI-MICK]

a 767-300 would get out of cork.

[mark_heg]

I wouldnt doubt that either. Corks runway 35/17 is almost 7000ft and the main runway at St Maarten is 7150ft. They manage to fly heavies in and out of there all day long. So I could imagine they wouldnt have a problem flying most in and out of there. Is there room for a 1000ft extension? Either which way its up to CAA to market the place properly there is a huge amount of potential to attract a US carrier.

[MarkD]

mark_heg

How would an A319 pay for itself ex Cork? No freight worth discussing and about 120 pax? What would the fare be? Slattery's couldn't make a 757, half again as big as a 319, work!

As a Corkman I would love to see more ORK flights but the reality of Jetmagic's demise is that Cork pax will not pay too high a premium when SNN is 120 minutes up the road and probably nearer 90 minutes when the Shannon tunnel is done, and EI has the 7.30am to LHR.

I took a 5.5hr flight in a 319 from YYZ-UVF, I certainly wouldn't face 8+ hours in a 319 in EI econ. A319s would be interesting to the east coast of Canada but you have another 1000-2000km to go from there before you reach YYZ/BOS/EWR/JFK/PHL/DTW etc.

The fascination in Ireland with every airport having to have a link to JFK eludes me. In the UK, having every region of more than 400k having a direct link to the East Coast would fill the skies over Ireland.

[mark_heg]

Yes maybe an A319 is too small but a 757 would be perfect. I would like to give cork a chance before it is written off. I do believe that if a proper schudule was in place the service would be very popular.

[EI-MICK]

an extension isnt to viable,the thing missing here is a parallel taxiway for runway35.
MarkD, slatterys didnt run the 757 because of a fuel surcharge introduced, and also the priority at the moment is passenger routes,not so much on the cargo.

regards,

[MarkD]

EI-Mick

it's true, Slattery's were hosed by Ryan Int on the price and 757 is a more plausible aircraft for a T/A route given speed and payload/range. No disagreement at all. In fact, I'd love to see EI go the Continental/AA route with the 757 from SNN to spare the 330s and have said so many times.

A 319 into JFK is a different case entirely unless it was a Privatair type operation with all J and again, regularly filling that ex Cork would be tough.

mark_heg

look at the specs for 757 and 319 and you'll see the difference. However, I'd much rather see Arann get its act together, codeshare with EI and AA and deny FR any connecting DUB traffic. At the end of the day over 6 hrs widebody is always going to be substantial faster in flight time, more comfy. Also - the Slattery service wouldn't have US preclearance, right?

[mark_heg]

I would agree with any airliner using whatever aircraft from bos to cork. I travel T/A 6 times a year at least and have to endure shannon or go ork to lhr. Neither of which i like at all. I see jetblue operate A320's from boston to destinations like las vegas, seattle, oakland etc all which take 6 hrs to fly, which is on par with a T/A to the east coast from snn. I think it would be great to see any airliner operate a T/A from the cork to bos. Im tired of hearing that there wouldnt be any demand for the flights which I think is rubbish, can some one actually fly the flight for once and for all and then decide.

[MarkD]

I notice the US Department of Transport has a press release for the US-Canada open skies agreement but not a sausage about Cullen and his visit. Did our DofT imagine it all? :E

[ryan2000]

Speculation about transatlantic at Cork is wide of the mark. The reality is that Aerlingus will not want to know as long as Cork people will make the journey to Shannon.

I wonder do Continental and Delta management even know where Cork is?

A Cork JFK and Cork Boston service is viable, but it will require a major marketiing effort by all interests groups.

The Slattery cancellation was very unfortunate particularlly as fuel prices have come back down again. Was this the only reason why the series was cancelled?

Heard today that three senior Ryanair personel spent the day looking at facilities at Cork.

[asianfly]

Have to agree with MarkD on this one....What is the fascination with T/A flights out of Cork? I would much rather ORK had greater and more numerous connections to the UK and in particular the continent.
Sure, I would love to fly T/A to ORK too, and avoid the trek to DUB or SNN, but unless it is truly viable for an airline, it ain't going to happen.

[FlyCorkInternational]

Concerning T/A from Cork. I dont believe its an idle facination from all the airports in Ireland to have T/A services. The fact is Cork has sufficient UK services (approx 19 UK destinations) with most regions covered. With maybe only 1 or 2 exceptions any additional UK services will dilute demand for the existing ones. Yes we would like to see more European routes come on stream (currently approx only 12 destinations), however if the rumours become reality then EI and FR will be increasing that number next year. The lacking areas would be Germany & Scandanavia.

The logical next step is USA, which is a untapped market.
As for whether is would be viable - the answer is YES. But is has always been denied due to the SNN stop (which it now appears never applied to ORK at all). All you have to do is see the amount of pax transiting on the early morning flts to DUB and London who's final destination is USA to show that the volumes are there, and also take into account the amount of pax who drive to Shannon to connect from there.

T/A Flights from Cork are only a matter of time. Currently EI may not be immediately interested (but is it only a matter of time). Of course what will get EI's immediate attention and launching of a US-ORK route is if AA, DL or CO (or anyone else) decide to venture into Cork.

My own opinion is that a daily JFK service by a major player with interline connections using 757/762/333 would be a complete success.

[840]

One of the reasons for the 'fascination' with transatlantic services is the poor state of ground transportation in Ireland. In areas of the UK that don't have transatlantic services, there is a good chance that it's possible to get a direct train into Manchester, Birmingham or Gatwick Airport.

Consider the slog of getting to Shannon. No trains. A bus which takes 2 1/2 hours. No wonder connecting in DUB, LHR or AMS is a more attractive proposition. A direct flight from Cork is better again.

However, I can see the point that it's not the best next step in the airports development. As much as new routes, I'd like to see greater frequency on existing ones - Amsterdam and Manchester returning to 2x daily, Paris going to 2x daily, all the UK routes with a frequency lower than 1x daily going to daily. As regards new routes, Frankfurt would be as important as a US route.

Mind you, if a US route turns up, I won't be complaining.

[EI-MICK]

mark heg,A319 or A320 isnt an option really for pax TA over the water,3000 miles over land in USA/Europe is fine,not Ireland to East Coast USA,not really suitable when ETOPS comes in to account.

[hafez]

Just found these new pics of the new terminal. Looking very good I must say. Can't wait for it to be done :cool:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/royskeane/show

[mark_heg]

I agree completely with "FlyCorkInternational", I myself am one of those pax either travelling to snn or connecting in heathrow and i can assure you I am one of many.

Those pics look cool of the new terminal. Can the old terminal still be utilized? I thought i heard that Ryan air were looking into running it? or what is the story with it. I think if they were going to do it up and manage it well then let them off would bring a lot to area.

I see from the new pics that there is construction for a new hotel? Isn't the one that is already there struggling why does the airport need a new hotel? Don't we need more area for stands?? Also is the new ATC tower being built? that would be much more benefical to the area. There is also a hanger being constructed right next to the cargo ramp, wouldn't it be better to move the cargo ramp and use it for future growth?? Who is going to be using the Hanger right beside the cargo ramp? Wouldnt it also make sense to move it to an area that wont be as utilized?

[Tom the Tenor]

There have been some excellent contributions to this thread in the last week and through it all the nitty gritty of the business at Cork Airport is at last being examined.

Mark_Heg has a lot of it in a nutshell. Whether the business being sought for Cork is a flight to America or more new routes from EI or FR to Britain and Europe it must come down to how well the Cork Airport Authority does it's job of marketing.

Who is in charge of marketing at Cork Airport? A position as marketing boss was advertised in the newspapers during the summer to replace Mr John Smyth. Has anyone yet been appointed?

The new Ryanair routes starting next week are Dublin and London Gatwick. This alone says a lot as both Aer Arann and easyJet are all ready serving the limited markets. An unusual strategy from Ryanair to introduce new capacity on all ready established routes and from mid January Cork will be down a Stansted flight too. Very simply, why no brand new routes ex Cork from Ryanair?

Ryan2000 poses the question about the whole Slattertys New York debacle. Fuel prices began to settle down again not long after the announced cancellation of the series. Perhaps, Ryan International were going to the trough for more from Slatterys but the conspirator in me really hopes that was all. The launch of the series was within just six weeks of start.

Without getting bogged down too much about America as I would have done in the past do not be taken in by the doubt if there is viability for such a route from Cork to America.

That is a 2.5 hour spin from the enemy and which for a long, long time suited EI very well and maybe still does?

[MarkD]

If by the enemy you mean SNN (and let's not get into that) it's more like 120mins and post Limerick tunnel will be probably 100mins. The Croom bypass etc makes a huge difference, and bypassing Charleville and Buttevant will help, especially the former.

[GBALU53]

With Aer Lingus summer success operating to Jersey in 2005 would they be thinking of operating to Cork and return on some of the days.

We understand 2006 services would be operated by an Airbus, the schedule to Jersey was four times a week, they could fit a rotation in as the Tue and Thur flight were mid afternoon and the Sun flight arrived in the morning.

The flght time to Cork would be on 1hr15min or less so the rotation from Jersey could be done in 3hr30 before return to Dublin.

Many year ago the did operate to Jersey and onto Rennes in France on a number days of the weeks in the summer with the ever faithful Vickers Viscount aircraft and Fokker Friendship.come back all is forgiven.

[mark_heg]

I think CAA have a lot to do if you give in nothing will ever be done. Keep the pressure on and it will work out. I know for a fact that cork airport could sustain a T/A flight no prob. During the summer thousands of J1'er from cork colleges go to Bos, NY, LA etc etc. There are also tourists and familes visting realities.Not to mention the US companies in the region, Apple, EMC, Analog Devices, MA Com etc etc I dont buy people saying there isnt a market. 120 mins drive is such an inconvenience, who wants to drive to shannon ?? I agree that cork needs to be marketed more, a lot more.Has the marketing position been filled at all?How much pressure do the board of cork airport put on the gov for T/A flights? Are they offering any incentives for a T/A service at all?

[buzzmebaby]

Re Markheg post

My latest understanding is that the new tower will not be built, and that the old terminal would require a change in planning permission to operate for Ryanair (but I suspect that is a red herring).

Doubt that the structure down by TNT is in fact a "hanger". Suspect the photographer may be using a bit of license, as it's more likely to be additional floorspace for TNT, DHL or one of the forwarders. The proposed "cargo village" isn't likely to be delivered for a few years and the cargo operators need space now!

Finally, it would seem that the Cork Airport Great Southern Hotel is one of only 3 or 4 in the GSH Group that are actually profitable, so they must be doing a brisk enough trade...

[Hawk]

very nice little thread you've started here 840 and thanks for checking the forum rules. :ok:

[Tom the Tenor]

The space being worked on by the TNT building will in time be a hangar and it is for our pals at EMC. At present they have two Hawkers 800s based at Cork and there was a rumor during the summer the '125s were to be upgraded to Challenger aircraft.

Enemy, business rival or whatever you are having yourself do not kid yourself for a second for that is what it is. The investment in airport infrastructure in the midwest and the surrounding area with roads etc for the last 30 years has been top class whilst at the same time what has Cork Airport received in similar terms?

Next to nothing! A begrudging and inadequate 1000 feet runway extension, a bit of ramp here, a taxiway there and as for hoping for the best in navaids at the most weather sensitive airport in the country - Cork can dream on! And we all have had stories about the Magic Roundabout! What a joy that has been on the way up to Cork Airport!

A certain kind of mindset has seen Cork as hardly being an airport at all for decades. The crumbs from the table, if you like. Ryan2000 speaks of lack of investment, neglect and apathy. Sit tight and dare you not rock the boat, so to speak! The pensions are safe and don't worry too much about the passengers! Experts tell us we cant do this and we cant do that! The rubbish that has had to be endured is appalling.

Mind you, a lot of Cork people and many Cork politicians have been pretty dumb as well. They have bought into the diversions thing about fog etc rather than knowing about good navaids and the funny bit about 'Can you give us a drive up next week to snn for my shopping flight to New York?' And just to rub the salt in deeper 'Can you come up at 6.30 am after the return flight for the spin back home to Cork!'

In the past there has been much discussion about Aer Arann flying operations but the conduct of bmi baby flying operations to Cork Airport must now also be considered. Why are there no CATII approaches being made to Cork Airport in low visibility by this British airline? Britain, the home of the sacred Civil Aviation Authority and all that ol' guff! This has been going on for a number of years now and it is plain dumb to go on blaming cranes etc forever? Thousands of passengers have been diverted over this issue and it must have cost a lot of pounds sterling to the bmi baby company? Or is that they have too been suckered into the 'T'will do' attitude? A mutation of a Cork disease?

All in all even my pet dog, Sam, could do better! It would not be hard!?

[MarkD]

TTT, Cork has the South Ring (albeit with magic roundabout), the N22, the N20, the N25, the Jack Lynch tunnel and the various N8 bypasses at Glanmire, Watergrasshill etc. It's damn sight better than when I were a lad.

As for the navaids it's true Cat III would be nice but what the hell can they do? The airport's on a hill! What do you think the suburbanites are going to say when they see the works required to make it work - crikey ESB couldn't even build a transmission line across the harbour!

[mark_heg]

Tell me about that 6.30 arrival into snn. I am sitting here now and I am dreading that 6.30 arrival on x-mass even. Its so crap that i can't land in cork along with hundreds more. I think if there is enough noise made something will be done its inevitable.

I thought CAT II was in full operation ?? What would have to be done in order to make the airport CAT III. Could they not engineer something to put the equipment on something level and not give out incorrect alt readings? Could the runway be extended any length at all, how about 500ft on either side of the runway 35 and 17?

[MarkD]

mark_heg

nothing stopping a charter op from Cork for Christmas or Paddy's day, or the J1 rush. What about the rest of the year?

[buzzmebaby]

Thanks TTT, I'll happily stand corrected.

As it is a hangar, Mark_hegs original point stands, isn't it a somewhat shortsighted decision to build it there? Why not the far side of the airfield or down by Iona?

As a matter of curiosity, who's paying for it? EMC or CAA? If it's EMC, what rights do they gain re future use, the land and airside access?

[eick320]

have done the tour of the new building and am very sorry to report that it is a shambles. Not enough room for baggage containers, 2 of the new check in desks are situated behind pillars therefore not allowing room for passengers to queue. The ground space at check in is approx the same as the current building, passengers who require wheelchair assistance are in trouble aswell ie no room for wheelchairs and very limited if any access from the ramp, and remember this tour was given by the CAA ...... please remember that 5000 sq m was taken off original plan already !!!!!

[mark_heg]

Is there the going to be 32 or 38 check in desks i cant remember the actual amount promised originally?? What about luggage belts there better be more than the 2 measley ones that are currently in the old terminal. Ye I was thinking that ramp space is going to be a disaster, did CAA take any Q&A's from any one ??

[EI-MICK]

Q & A?? just questions id say,no answers,EICK320 was it a tour for staff of some kind??

[eick320]

not 100% how many desks were going in cause 2 desks are for cabin baggage only and therfore there is no baggage belt connected to those. In relation to the baggage containers only 4 containers at a time can be brought in under the current system 5 baggage cans can be brought to the incoming belt

[brian_dromey]

I herd that both EI and FR expansion is in the pipeline @ ORK, can any one con firm what this expansion might be, and prospective destinations?

By the way does any charter airline plan to base an aircaft at Cork for the summer season, or will eirJet be messing up everyones holiday plans again next year?

Finally have AirWales pulled the Plymoth flight?

Thanks,
Brian Dromey

[ryan2000]

I see that CO has announced an additional DUB/SNN/EWR flight from next May. That means Shannon will have up to 5 flights a day leaving for the Big Apple each day. Surely a 3 per week service from Cork is viable if Shannon can support this level of service.

Is anybody in Cork listening? Would someone at least start negotiating with some of the airlines in question ?

[mark_heg]

Yes this is kind of disappointing for cork indeed. Does cork airport or is cork airport doing anything to market the airport to US carriers? This is one service that the airport can actually handle a good old 757, no runway length problems, no max take off weight restrictions etc etc. Forget charters too undependable. Cork definitely needs a scheduled carrier for the service to be successful. AA or CO with their 757 is just perfect. Could cork aiport not under cut snn with a better offers and incentives, it is a business right??

[MarkD]

ryan2000 - CO are not serving Shannon. They are serving Dublin. That just means serving Shannon too. I would suspect very few seats being released to SNN on the JFK-DUB-SNN-JFK reducing it to the stop/go EI did on the MCO-DUB route. Hopefully someone who knows will post loadings when it all kicks off.

mark_heg - I thought no Cork scheduled until 2008 under this US-Ireland deal? Certainly no mention of ORK or NOC here - since neidin mentioned them maybe he can post something (assuming he wasn't having us on for some KIR baiting):

http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=7068&lang=ENG&loc=1853

[ryan2000]

Reliable sources indicate that the bilateral contains a loophole which allows an Irish Airline to operate from any Irish Airport to the US.

The wording appeared on PPrune earlier this year. If 1 in 4 applies to SNN v Dublin then US airlines could in theory start services to ORK OR NOC once open skies comes into effect.

The main runway at Cork is just 7,000 and is sloping at both ends. Some years ago the EI 734'S required a technical stop enroute to LPA and TFS if 35 was active and they had a full load. In 2002 a 767 op direct to the Dominican Republic had to restrict the outbound load.

What odds that the runway lenght will become an issue if serious negotiations ever get underway.

RTE news stated this morning that agreement has been reached and that the talks have been concluded.

[EI-MICK]

Other news is that only one airbridge is being installed,thats very pointless,although the terminal is installed with the capability of 4.

[brian_dromey]

Local Media today suggest that Cork will only have one airbridge? I can asure everyone that there are FOUR glass/aluminium airbrigdes physically attached to the new terminal. Perhaps the argument is over how many will be operational on day one?

The airbridge situation @ ORK is farsical, any new terminal is expected to have them, especially with weather conditions like those that prevail @ EICK, wind, rain, etc. The fact of the matter is that the DAA want to keep Cork in the stone-age, for whatever reason.

Aer Lingus insisted on the 'bridges in the first place and should now be forced to use them. The notion that they need to use both doors for 'quick' turns is utter rubbish. EI turns @ cork are on average, 55 mins, and they use them at the destination airports! If EI really are "commited to Cork" and "way better" they would use the airbriges.I wold also like to point out that fares ex Cork are much higher that from Dublin, and then to add insult to injury we are expected to be blown away in the wind and soked to the skin before we can buy the pricy snacks on board? Get real EI, and the DAA.

[hafez]

well they are going to make the other ones "walk down ones"(cant think of somthing better to describe it as) or somthing like in stansted i think. Stupid if you ask me - They build a multimillion euro terminal and then only have 1 air bridge

[Tom the Tenor]

It is simple. Cork Airport had been dumbed down from day one. Built up high on a hill with plenty of low cloud, wind, rain, fog and generally a lot of poor weather. Also, a short runway which it is hard to stop thinking if that had been a deliberate decision in order not to take away from snn down the years?

The Cork Airport board must be weak? One airbridge, for heavens sake! Have you ever heard such utter rubbish? What the hell is going on?

What is more the fare paying public are going to be forking out 200 million euro or thereabouts for this new terminal and they will still be getting soaked and still being diverted in low visibility below CATII minima!

And what about next summer? EMA gone, MAN just one daily flight when a few years ago there were five flights! Just three Stansted flights rather than four and MUN is not in the EI schedule either after next March. I am seriously wondering about the supposed 4th EI Airbus. You would think if it was to happen they would have announced it by now and the new routes to give folk an opportunity to buy tickets as Christmas presents etc? More FR routes would mean more aircraft and where would such aircraft park?

You can forget about the North Atlantic - snn will see to that. They are fare more cute than the Cork crowd whom are hardly at the races at all?

A strong Cork Airport is as far away as ever?

[asianfly]

Spending well over 100 m euro on a new terminal and not bothering to include air bridges seems a bit crazy to me. But then EICK seems to get away with treating its passengers with contempt.
If they are not going to have air-bridges (or at least only one of them), then at least provide covered walkways to the nearer stands and bus transport to the far off stands. The airlines, the CAA, and the agents can argue night and day about whose reponsibility that is, but they should bang heads together and sort it out. Arriving at a spanking new terminal, and then be subjected to a walk in a downpour sans umbrella or any other cover to a distand stand for a hour plus flight to London or wherever is a bloody disgrace. It is one quick way to get the Cork version of 'Bird Flu'! It has happened to me on more that one occassion and I think the decision makers (politicans, DAA/CAA heavies, airline mgt gurus, etc) will need to take the ORK 'walk of shame' to experience this unique joy first hand.
Interesting also how the story broke as the Roy Keane news dominated news and the city was engrossed in the local soccer team playing the championship decider (we won by the way!!) Rant over!

[ryan2000]

The problem is that the Dublin Airport Authority deeply resent having to pay for the terminal in Cork, though we're still not sure if they will be saddled with the depth. The latest word is that they have issued an ultimatum to the Cork Board that they will not sanction any spending that exceeds 163million euro ,
a massive increase on the original tender price.

This does not allow for more than one airbridge and also rules out any walkways. Can any one explain how a terminal that was built at a fixed price contract which is the reason which the old Aer Rianta gave for delaying the commencement of the project, could incur such a huge overrun.

Maybe Eddie Hobbs or the RTE documentary team should be asked to investigate.

Apart from the 3 per week Jet 2 Newcastle service, Cork has failed to secure any new routes since John Smyth left last March. BMI and Aer Aran ;two of the biggest 5 customers at Cork ,will have less seats in 2006 than in 2005.

We are told that "there's plenty business out there" but its time to start delivering. Is anyone talking to Easyjet ? You must be proaactive in this game.

[MarkD]

brian_dromey

do you have a link to anywhere it said EI wanted airbridges at ORK? I remeber the opposite as being true but since you made the assertion you can do the legwork.

check this out for instance:
http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1514447&highlight=cork+airbridge#post1514447

mark_heg

regardless of what was previously tossed around, the wording as currently released makes no such provision. Again, if someone else can dig up something from dot.gov or transport.ie I would be delighted to hear it.

[asianfly]

I have no problem in not using an air-bridge, and in many ways like the fact that you can just walk off the plane and into the terminal. However, given the large increase in movements and a limited number of stands near the terminal entrance, passengers in general have a longer walk to and from aircraft. As a result, in inclement weather (which Cork Airport seems to revel in), getting soaked to the skin is not unusual. Hence the argument for a cheap alternative, namely covered walkways or bus shuttles.
As for air-bridges specifically, they were included in the original plans but have obviously got chopped due to budgetary contraints. Likewise, the new contol tower and (I believe) a paralell taxiway also got the chop. Given the above, I find it hard to believe but am not surprised that there is no change out of 160m Euro. In my opinion, the new terminal and the associated works (new multi-storey carpark and approach roads) are very poor value for money. Worse, I fear that it will be a millstone around the neck of the airport going forward as you can bet your bottom dollar that the CAA will be left carrying the can in terms of debt.

[840]

It is a little strange that Aer Lingus haven't announced the fourth A320 it it's going to be placed in Cork next Summer. However, they haven't announced any new routes from Dublin for next Summer, so that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

As to which routes they would serve, I suspect that they may add capacity to existing routes as much as add new ones. Alicante and Paris could certainly take extra capacity. They could also up the frequency to Amsterdam, Nice, Barcelona or Malaga. It's a low-risk option, because they can predict demand much more easily on an existing route.

For new destination, the three that spring to mind are Madrid, Krakow and Riga. Madrid would attract a reasonable amount of traffic in its own right, but given a suitably timed flight and a code-share with Iberia, it could work quite nicely on a 3x per week basis. They will have assessed the demand for Warsaw and will have a good idea how much there would be for Krakow and Riga from Poles and Latvians living in the Munster region. Krakow is also a growing tourist destination.

There is also a possibility that they are reassessing their intentions given Ryanair's sudden interest in Cork. Extra capacity to Paris or Malaga could look foolish if Ryanair start eyeing up those routes.

brian_dromey->Air Wales have switched the Plymouth flight to Exeter.

[mark_heg]

Whats the story with CAT II nav aids for runway 35/17 these days? Just the one airbridge is pretty pathetic but its better than nothing. No US carrier would use the facilites without an airbridge, business pax pay for a service, is CAA going to wake up any time soon? As asianfly said about the roads and multistory are not what cork airports needs right now its not money well spent. Its such a fiasco from start to finish, CAA need to be more aggressive and do a better job promoting cork and atttacting more airlines. The operation right now wouldnt attract squat in the future.

[Conehead O' Toole]

runway 35 is only CAT1 anyway and doesnt need to be CAT2.The weather is never bad when 35 is in use!!

[mark_heg]

Im not completelly sure but I would think that 35 would need CAT II approaches at some point. When was CAT II initially installed for 17 ??

They are aiming for a 1 in 4 stop over in shannon for nov of next year. So that could easily include cork. So is CAA activiely promoting cork to US airlines? I hear that shannon will be extensively advertising itself (shannon) in the US. Is Cork going to be trying to do the same in the US. Next nov should be a good start for cork. The terminal should be well done and at least one airbridge in place. AA or CO are the real contenders I am really interested to see what will happen there.

[ryan2000]

I wouldn't hold my breath Mark. Everyone associated with Cork talks about transatlantic talk is cheap. Heard that Easyjet offered Cork a very attractive package but no agreement reached.

[mark_heg]

Really, can you tell more about the easyjet package? If they offered an alicante route or similar that would be great. Why isn't cork offering Easyjet an attractive package and not the other way round? is that usually the case?

[Conehead O' Toole]

I think it was the 80's when CAT2 came,along with the ILS.

rwy 35 is CAT1,see the AIP

[brian_dromey]

I cannot find a referance for EI's insistance on the Airbridges. However what I can confirm is that a new terminal was not originaly part of the plan at all, (in the late 90's when EI were service driven). The new terminal was only added to allow airbridges, as the old terminal was too close to the runway to allow airaft to pass while others were docked.

Again I repeat that the airport has FOUR fully installed aibridges at the airport, not mere stubs, but the entire assembly. The planning permission for the terminal could not be changed to exclude them without significant cost, so the DAA was forced to install them. It also appears that the DAA will be forced to pay for the building.

New routes from Cork?-It has been terrobly quiet on that fronteer lately, heres hoping that the're up to something good at EICK!-wont be holding my breath though.

[Tom the Tenor]

Age dims the memory now somewhat but I have a feeling CATII for 17 would be more like from the mid 1990s? Open to correction. I feel that if the facility had been there anytime in the 1980s I would never have needed to start taking them tablets :{ !

So, easyJet offered Cork an attractive package and no agreement reached? Why not? In business deals are struck everyday, right?

Tomorrow, Ryanair are due to begin flights from Cork to Dublin and Gatwick which are two all ready established routes. In January, Ryanair will drop a Stansted flight.

Yet, we are told easyJet offer Cork an attractive package and there is no take up from Cork? Curiouser and curiouser!

In today's media in Cork one of the local TDs, (MP) Bernard Allen of the main opposition party, Fine Gael, has been calling out loudly for direct flights to America. Mr Allen was very much in the public eye yesterday for being thrown out of An Dail (parliament) in a debate about the provision of cancer services in the Cork area.

Top marks to the man for a getting in an angle today to promote Cork flights directly to America!

[Shanwickman]

I see that Eirjet have applied for permission to operate ad hoc
charter flights between Ireland and the U.S. for a period of 180
days, commencing November 24th 2005.
Maybe its shopping trips from EICK!

[840]

You can see more detail in my reply to the Eirjet thread.

They've applied for this in an A320. An A320 from Cork, might just make it to a few small airports in Maine, but that's it. The chances are that it's so that they can fly wet-lease charters in the US.

[ryan2000]

There are serious negotiations underway at the moment in relation to new routes at Cork. Any major deal would almost certainly need to be in place before Christmas if were to begin in April/May in tandem with the opening of the new terminal.

Renewed speculation about the use of the old terminal given that covered walkways have also been knocked out of the construction project. 2 terminals for 3 million pax per annum seems a bit excessive but stranger things have happened and Cork is unorthodox in every respect.

[mark_heg]

Shanwickman

Where did in the media was there talks about Eirjet commencing an ad hoc service to the US? That would be great if it were true, but on an A320 ?? sounds a bit far fetched, are they thinking about another aircraft type? This should be interesting, it might die a same death as Aer Arann's plans did when they were deciding to start ork - US. But I am eager to see the result of this, anything is welcomed :-)

brian_dromey

Does this mean that there will be 4 fully functional air bridges, and not just 1 fully funtional one and the stubs of 3 others. If you could clarify that it would be great.

[Shanwickman]

Have a look here...

http//dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf94/372694_web.pdf

[Buster the Bear]

Or even:

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf94/372694_web.pdf

[Tom the Tenor]

The Eirjet thread has more but I am hearing that EIR are shortly to wet lease an A320 to Air Jamaica during the busy Caribbean winter season so the chances of the story having anything to do with charters flights from Ireland to the USA must be slim?

It is mentioned earlier in the thread and I say it again - do not get overly hung up on the North Atlantic thing from Cork because if there was a choice of having either New York or some kind of combination of, say, Krakow, Riga, Copenhagen and Berlin you would have to go for more European routes.

Cork is now set up with Prague, Budapest and Warsaw so it is clear that a lot of Cork's growth is coming to us from Eastern Europe so let us get that right before worrying about a North Atlantic. With Europe it is easier operationally; lower operating costs, no crews overnighting, aeroplanes back again to base after a few hours, a quick turn around and off again and fly more and make more money.

[Radar Identified]

Hello all,
Just as a point of interest anyone know how ryanair fared on the Cork Dub Cork today. Pax loads etc etc....

R.I:D

[Conehead O' Toole]

maybe north american airlines will operate a 757 for them like they did last summer around europe.

[Shamrock 125]

The first flight out from DUB-ORK was a shade under half full and the last ORK-DUB flight was about 75%. Nothing but business pax on both the ones i was on.

[ryan2000]

Ryanair's loads on ORK LGW have been very high over the weekend and so far neither their Stansted service or Easyjet appear to be affected though the average yields are another matter.

It is strongly rumoured that Ryanair will base a second 738 at Cork in the New Year to operate the existing flights to Stansted and a yet to be confirmed UK destination. They advertised for additional Cork based crews recently.

[840]

Traffic to UK Airports for October

Belfast 3,785
Birmingham 11,459
Bristol 1,576
Cardiff 2,191
Durham Tees Valley 1,836
Edinburgh 4,533
Gatwick 13,546
Glasgow 998
Heathrow 38,253
Leeds Bradford 557
Liverpool 8,295
Manchester 10,543
Newcastle 1,438
Nottingham EMA 3,774
Southampton 1,497
Stansted 36,734

And an observation/warning. With the new Ryanair flight to Dublin, the airport is a lot busier at 5:30am than it used to be. There was no space in the set down area this morning.

[ad astra]

I'm just curious to know if there is any sort of protocol at airports regarding who gets de-iced first, who gets to park where, and who gets to depart first, etc?
I only ask because Cork airport had some bad weather last Friday morning, and the passengers of the Malev flight to Budapest had to wait nearly three hours to leave as they were apparently left at the back of the de-icing queue, despite having quite an early time for departure.
I also regularly see the Irish airlines parked directly outside the terminal whilst various foreign aircraft are left miles away, meaning a very long walk for the passengers (as there are no buses) to and from the aircraft. In the case of the Malev flight the boarding passengers were soaked by near horizontal sleet/snow.

Edit: Please do not start airport threads when one already exists. I am merging this post to the CORK airport thread.

[Sans Anoraque]

I also regularly see the Irish airlines parked directly outside the terminal Not Aer Arann. We (the SLF) get the long, rainy walk also. I asked someone who works there whether there was a pecking order and they claimed not. However, I've noticed the same as you.

PS Wasn't the new terminal supposed to be finished last month?

[840]

An update on the Air Wales operations at Cork (all this information is available in other threads, but it might help to centralise them)

The Plymouth route will be moving to Exeter in January 2006.

They will take over the Cardiff route from BMIBaby in March 2006 (They already operate it, but the flights will be marketed as Air Wales from then).

Cork-Newquay is showing up in the Air Wales booking engine, but with no dates or times for flights yet.

[GROUNDHOG]

I hope it works (NQY/ORK) for Air Wales, I have no idea of the market from Cork to Cornwall but feel particularly during the Winter there may not be a great demand from this end especially with flights from Exeter which will detract from any business generating from east of say Bodmin. Timings are crucial.

I would be interested to hear the views from the Cork end of the line?

Good luck Air Wales, hope you can make this and other routes stick here.

PS: Of course Cardiff to Cork was Air Wales launch and first route before the BMI deal....

[ad astra]

Nobody knows then.
The new terminal was supposed to be open this year I think, but it isn't finished yet - it does look quite impressive though. I don't know what's happening to the present/old terminal when the new one opens.

[brian_dromey]

I have herd in recent days that both FR and U2 are sniffing around @ ORK. Is this true, or a figment of peoples imaginations. Also noted that EI made noise about a 4th A320 @ ORK, is there any more news on that, and while on the subject of EI A32X's what have happened to the wonderful A321s, and have they been fitted with the new leather seats?

Thanks as always...
Brian Dromey.

[Tom the Tenor]

Airliners.net had a posting a few days ago about easyJet putting another A319 into their Dortmund. If the regime at Cork had any phlegm there is every chance that a Dortmund - Cork might work especially if EI are not too keen to go ahead again with Munich for next summer?

The rumor about FR putting a second 737-800 into Cork to fly the Stansted routes and to a different UK destination would hardly be welcome at Cork in that it would take up yet another spot for overnight parking? What would the other UK destination be? LPL or would it be a new route to EMA or PIK?. A FR flight to EMA would put yet more pressure on RE with their services to BHX and WW too to a lesser extent? If it was to be PIK the RE flights to EDI would again be facing some stiff competition.

All round Aer Arann must be pretty peeved at the moment in regard to their operations at Cork be it soaking pax, parking and Celtic tiger competition from Ryanair!?

A Ryanair Cork - Europe? The snn base is so significant for FR it is hard to see them doing anything out of Cork to mainland Europe. Anyone know how the snn Europe flights are doing at the moment?

A 4th EI Airbus. Time is pressing on with this one. Perhaps the threat of a Ryanair response has something to do with the inaction?

Plymouth - Cork, if it is not broke don't fix it? I guess that in the days of Brymon if their had been a diversion to Newquay Brymon may have had a 'spare' aeroplane available at Plymouth to keep the schedule tight. Air Wales are not so lucky at Plymouth with diversions causing knock on delays etc? Waiting to be updated!

Whether the flights were operated by BN-2s, Cessna 337, Twin Otter, Dash 7, Dash 8 and now ATR-42 there has always been a niche market there between Cork and Plymouth. Air Southwest tried out Exeter with PA-31 and EMB-110 for a while but did not last. Different era now of course with far more people from all the socio-economic groups regularly flying. Newquay is more in the public eye now with both WW and FR both capturing a market so the local folk around the UK southwest are all ready softened up to the idea of a Newquay to Cork to complement an Exeter - Cork?

[840]

GROUNDHOG->Cork-Newquay can work if it can attract decent numbers of passengers from both ends. Newquay (and Cornwall in general) doesn't have the same profile in Ireland as in the UK and some marketing effort would be needed.

As regards the Aer Lingus A320. I heard mention of one arriving at the end of May, but I would regard the source as pretty unreliable.

[ryan2000]

The shortage of stands at Cork is chronic but that shouldn't stop Ryanair or Easyjet from expanding. There are times during the morning and early evening when there are up to eight stands free for several hours.

Cork management have traditionally been cautious in the kind of concessions they give to airlines but they'll probably have to be a bit more adventurous if they want to reach their 5 million per annum target for the new terminal.

An expansion by FR on UK routes would not greatly dilute their Shannon Traffic though it would probably get rid of many of the smaller regional operators such as Loganair, BMI Regional, Air Wales and Aer Arann.

However the first two listed have made no effort to grow the traffic on their Cork Routes so I don't see why management at Cork will be over concerned about them.

[buzzmebaby]

Ryan2000> "...they'll probably have to be a bit more adventurous if they want to reach their 5 million per annum target for the new terminal..."


The new terminal has a design capacity of 3 million doesn't it? Management are forecasting 2.7m passengers for this year already!

The 5 million figure seems to be what the terminal can be expanded to handle, by adding a pier to the north towards (ie levelling?) the cargo village.

Chances of that pier being funded before 2050....?!!?

[ryan2000]

Aer Rianta allowed the old terminal, capacity 1.1 m to cater
for 2 million per year before deciding to do something about it. It now has a throughput of 2.7m.

If the same attitude prevails in the future the new terminal will also handle far more pax than it can cater for. Maybe somone in the distant future will then decide that it needs a further extension.

Add in a parrallel taxiway, airbridges a possible runway extension and above all the need for additional parking stands and we see that Cork is in need of a major influx of investment if it is ever to reach its potential.

[hafez]

surely they could add some extra parking across from the new terminal!*as seen below* loads of space there and the concrete wouldnt cost too much like, the same with the taxiway, its not going to add on too much to the project. Arghhh stupid irish government :mad:

http://img500.imageshack.us/img500/3456/cork4cy.gif

[mark_heg]

They could also just knock the old terminal long term and expand in that direction it would make more sense?? There is plenty of room for expansion there.

What is the latest with the Nav aids at cork? What happened to the Easyjet package? Anymore recent pics ?

[banana head]

Allocation of parking stands and other aerodrome services will be by agreement between the airline in question and the airport operator.

Aer Arann for example may not wish to pay the cost of using an air bridge for an ATR service.
Consider too the type of equipment available - The specific Air bridge may not be able to extend far and low enough for an ATR.

There is also the issue of capacity. No airport operator in their right mind wants as ATR parked on a stand marked out for a 747, when they could park 2 ATR's on the same amount of remote tarmac.

Facilities such as De-Iceing can be provided by airlines themselves, ground handling companies or by the airport authority, depending on each individual airport, but you will almost always find that anywhere a 'priority' list exists it is only because that customer has a larger or more valuable contract with the company providing De-Icing.

" He who pays most gets best soonest service" as I was once told in Hong Kong...

[ryan2000]

Servisair have been riding on their luck in recent relativelly mild winters. The reality is that Cork is not equiped to deal with heavy frost and God Help us if there is a heavy snowfall.

On the last occasioin the airport authorities made no effort to clear the runway simply because the staff were on Christmas Holidays and in any event they have no snowploughs apart from a tractor with a glorified shovel attached to it.

Cork will be closed for indefinitely if we have a Winter Freeze up and on the law of averages we're due one.

[asianfly]

"The 5 million figure seems to be what the terminal can be expanded to handle, by adding a pier to the north towards (ie levelling?) the cargo village."

That pier was in the original plans. It is essentially an extended corridor with an additional 4 gates (with airbridges) running to the right of the new terminal.

[Sans Anoraque]

on a stand marked out for a 747 You've never been to Cork then!

The current terminal at cork does not have air bridges. SLF walk onto planes, but as ad astra said, the larger carriers always seem to get the stands nearest the entrance/exit.

[Shanwickman]

How many 747's land in EICK every day that might have their
parking area blocked by an ATR

[840]

If they put parking across the runway, they may be obliged to provide buses to the terminal. I can just imagine the anouncement on the planes.

"As Cork is a self-marshalling airport, we ask passengers to watch out for the A320 that is taking off as they're walking across the runway..."

Seriously, apart from the purchase costs, what would be the issue with the agricultural land next to the cargo area. It should still be relatively flat at that point.

I love the typical Cork weather in the photo.

As for B747s. I can only remember 2 landing at the airport ever. There was a Qantas charter a couple of years back. There was also a KLM flight from Aruba to Amsterdam that made an emergency landing at the airport.

[EI-MICK]

An ATR with an airbridge is stupid,it takes about 3 steps to get on to an ATR!!!!!

there were 747's there before for the European Rugby cup finals when munster were involved,i remember a day where there was 9 charter flights including a 747,330,737's,all returned to cork that evening after the match,one after the other and went back to base again,was great!

DE-icing equipment is limited,do servisair even have that equipment??
Aer Lingus do for definite.

its not just agricultural land next to the cargo area,theres 2 of Everton FC soccer pitches and Redmonds hurling pitch,forget it.

[Tom the Tenor]

Boeing 747s from Aer Lingus, Air Atlanta, European, Transwede, KLM and Qantas have visited Cork. Apart from the KL and QF most of the other visitors were flights either related to the Munster rugby campaign and charters to Tarbes for pilgrims to Lourdes. One day in the early 1970s a BOAC and a KLM 747 did some go arounds whilst on training details on a visit down from snn.

The airport owns the football pitches used by Everton AFC.

Today's announcement of 4 new routes by Ryanair from Shannon to MAN, MJV, CIA and WRO gives notice to Cork. It suggests Ryanair have little heart for mainland Europe flights from Cork in the year ahead? Ryanair and snn are just too close now. On the other hand it may also suggest that the Cork Airport Authority are not at the races at all in their negotiations with Ryanair? Dublin and Gatwick, indeed! How novel?

It will all end in tears?

[mark_heg]

Hmmm that is an interesting move by Ryanair, I wonder if CAA made the old terminal into a LCC terminal would Ryanair expand there, just a thought?

Is there a possibility to extend runway 25/07 and put better nav aids in place on this runway? This runway would be better suited to strong winds at cork that seem to cripple 35/17 ?

[EI-MICK]

I agree witht he extension of 25/07 but its not on the cards,The CAA dont care if a few flight get delayed/diverted,Not possible to extend the runway at the 25 threshold because of the main kinsale road,and the 07 end has a road also and i think theres houses out that way,they might own everton pitch but certainly not redmonds.

[ryan2000]

CAA are not an Independent Company. The DAA are calling the shots and they're noses are out of joint because of the overruns on the new terminal at Cork. Not a penny for aircraft stands etc untill the debt issue is resolved.

[EI-MICK]

when is a handover due?? its a bit ridiculous calling it a cork airport authority when it's really cork airport authority controlled by dubs.CAA sponsored by DAA!!

[eastjimmy]

CAA, FAA, DAA, FAI,ICWA,......................
Call them what we bloody well like but agian cork has missed out on new routes. Ryanair announced 4 more routes out of shannon today, manchester, wroclaw, rome, murcia.. all be it at the expence of two existing ryanair routes up there but surlely this was yet again an example of us lot missing the boat. We are certainly short of cover on the manchester route and now would be a perfect time for ryanair to come in and take it for them selves. its sickening really. the place seems to be stuck on pause since mr smith left. i fear for the place really i do. if we get stung for the cost of the new terminal things will be dire .. please get out there and battle for these routes that are there for the taking shannon certainly seem to be good at it????

[mark_heg]

I see that a €50m campaign is being launched in order to attract more overseas visitors. Couldn't cork be allocated some of this money and bring in some US visitors. I know countless that would use ork over snn any day.

[Tom the Tenor]

Last week or the week before a body speaking on behalf of Irish hotels were calling on the Irish government to make Euro 10 million a year available to attract business to the areas around snn, presumably in a post stopover type scenario.

There is a general election due in 2007 if not before so if the FFers give in to the millions of Euro request Cork can forget about the North Atlantic for a long time.

And anyway, if snn gets euros Cork will get only pennies.

Sad but true.

[mark_heg]

Hmmmm, When is CAA going to break away from DAA? Can cork get its act together then?

[neidin]

Cork AA have been talking consistently to Continental about direct Cork to New York services. This can be done technically on the exisiting Cork runway using one of the hh rated 757 units that CO have.

Cork has a slightly longer runway than Bristol which has the same EWR service. The BRS service has done really well with very high yield and loads. Check the CAA.

The problem Cork has is all this doubt over US airlines and the Shannon stopover. Also Cork weather is an issue for CO. Fog and TA - not a good mix.

Can Cork match the free deals at Shannon - well that is another question. Rumour has it that CO are technically overnighting a plane at SNN in summer 2006. Will this give them a similar deal to Ryanair at Shannon. Will CO be paying 50 cent per pax at SNN for their extra flts in '06?

Ryanair hiring rapidly crew for ORK base and will go 5 a day Dublin in new year. Base will do DUB, STN and probably MAN or enhanced LPL service. Lubeck, Bergamo and Polish flts also in the mix. Cawley ready to announce. Will he sing the "Banks".

[mark_heg]

Yes cork 35/17 runway is approx 100m longer than bristols main runway. This would rule out the runway length being a problem at all for CO's 757.

From Nov 2006 there shouldn't be a problem at all with shannon as the stopover will offically be phased out?

So it really it boils down to the weather at cork, and it would appear that all of CO pilots doing TA flights would be certified to fly CAT II approaches. Also could they schedule the flight to arrive in at 11 am opposed to an early morning arrival, it seems that the fog usually is dissiapted by early afternoon??

Neidin , any other news about TA carriers , I would love to know what AA's plans are for expansion?

[Tom the Tenor]

Cork Airport is too busy feeling sorry for itself with the previously mentioned cap of Euro 163 million imposed by the DAA for the new terminal let alone to be talkin' with Continental?

Let us get our head around this for a moment - if Cork with it's poor weather record cannot get a few more bob together to have two airbridges rather than the one why would Cork be talkin' with CO, FR? It is hard to see any kind of snn type deal being done in these circumstances? For the airlines it must come down to - Show me the money!!

Of course, the situation may be redeemable. The hapless gang at Cork could always go cap in hand to the wannabe Cork Taoiseach, Micheal Mairtin, Minister for Enterprise, no less(!) and Chriost Ri iarr dalta (past pupil for our English readers) and plead for a few extra poundeens for some corrugated iron for the 2nd airbridge etc.

If Minister Mairtin was from the wonderful world of the midwest rather than Cork you can bet that a deep path would have all ready been beaten to his ministerial door pleading, cajoling, begging, threatening etc for an extra little something to keep the 1960s dream going that when every airliner was going west across the North Atlantic they had to sometime end up at De Valera Field and it's nice, long runway at Rineanna.

Ah, shure, 'twould bring a tear to the eye and there they all were on TG4 on Sunday night.

[mark_heg]

Well the cap isnt CAA fault really is it?? more to the point when can CAA break free of DAA and try and make it on their own??

Yes it would be nice to see all the airbridges in place but thats the way it goes, didnt someone mention going back that once they were included in the planning permission that it would cost them more to take them out of it?? not sure on that point.

Looks like a sheltered walkway would be more practical from a LCC point of view, although from an elderly, special needs point of view that is aggrovating for them.

What are the marketing people doing at CAA to attract US airlines. If there was some noise created im sure something would be done about it. Its all political at the end of the day though!

[ryan2000]

My information is that Cork are not involved in any live negotiations with any transatlantic carrier.

A member of the CAA has had informal discussions with a very senior executive at Continental but I wouldn't be overly optimistic in the short term.

It will be difficult to compete with SNN even in a post stopover environment given the Mid West Airports tradition of throwing money at airlines and tour operators.

There's an election in the pipeline so why not milk the taxpayer while the going is good. Sure its worked for the past 60 years.

Cork has always been more cautious in its approach.

Neidin's Ryanair prediction is much more likely to happen and I understand that Aerlingus are also evaluating a major expansion out of Cork.

[mark_heg]

As a person that lives states side along with coutless others each year the trek home becomes more and more annoying. We would pay an extra Euro 40 to fly into ork any day , than send our familes out of their beds at 4 in the morning to collect us. Or bare the hassels of moving ourselves from T4 to T1 in heathrow is a nightmare at any time of the year. Has no one got the guts in cork to stand up to the DAA and start to put the interests of the public in cork before polictics. Its sickening.

[MarkD]

Does RE get much interlining pax DUB-ORK? Obviously FR gets none.

[EI-MICK]

Of course CO pilots are CAT2 rated,99% of the pilots flying into cork are CAT3 rated,barring RE,maybe some of them actually are on other aircraft,cork isnt the only airport these pilots fly into,
can anyone provide Info regarding me hearing on dub tower an aer arann doing a practise Cat2 in dub?????

[Radar Identified]

Probably flying with a training captain and using the opportunity to become current(groundschool and sim completed) or keeping a CAT II rating current. :O

[GBALU53]

Any one have any ideas on who if any will operate to Jersey this comming summer?????.

In 2005 VLM operated the Fokker 50 on Sundays.

Will they operate again in 2006 or can Jersey look forward to an Aer Arran ATR operation or even Aer Lingus with a bus run????.

[Radar Identified]

Rumoured that RE have their eye on it.

[mark_heg]

Ryanair have announced new routes again today but none for cork! are there any on the horizon??

[840]

There was talk of a second plane for Cork, but it would mostly operate to Stansted taking over from the Stansted based plane that currently operates the route.

It could operate the current service to Stansted and still have time for another UK rotation in the day. The most obvious destination would be Prestwick. The passengers would mostly come from BA's Glasgow service and RE's Edinburgh service with some new traffic developed. Basically, it would have minimal impact on their existing Shannon operations. East Midlands or Bristol could be possibles as well.

[Radar Identified]

Any idea what the ryanair cork-overhead kerry-overhead shannon and back to cork was doing today. All at fl60?

R.I

[ryan2000]

Operating a flight for staff and their children at Cork Airport. It is anticipated that Ryanair will base a 2nd aircraft at ORK next March. Rumours of major expansion by at least one other airline serving Cork.Watch this space. Not privy to details,

[840]

But where will we get the stands...


Seriously, there are currently three Aer Lingus, three Aer Arann and a Ryanair based at the airport. Add in the Malev and CSA night-stoppers and three (?) cargo planes that are on the ground overnight and the fifteen stands are almost full.

Sure, there are still enough to accommodate a single extra Ryanair and one from the other airline (Aer Lingus?), but they'll need to have extra ones in place by 2007.

[840]

This was posted by Ryan2000 earlier in another thread, which I assume was removed for breaching the rules.

The Aer Lingus website is now showing extra frquencies on some existing routes from the end of June next year

The changes seem to be

Alicante 2->4 per week
Amsterdam 9->11 per week
Malaga 4->6 per week
Nice 2->3 per week
Rome 2->4 per week
Warsaw 3->4 per week

Assuming an extra aircraft, that seems to leave 4 rotations a week available for new routes.

My bets would be on 2x weekly to Riga and either 2x weekly to Krakow or 2x weekly to Madrid.

[mark_heg]

Thats great, at least they are expanding EU ops. 3 day service to the US would be great as a trial run from summer 06 onwards, wishful thinking I suppose. :)

[840]

Unfortunately, Aer Lingus don't have enough aircraft to operate the transatlantic service they'd like out of Dublin. If it happens this year, it won't be Aer Lingus.

[eick320]

Have heard rumours that Monday coming 19 dec Aer lingus will announce their 4th overnighting airbus. A few new routes and also the expansion of their existing routes. The Spanish routes receive further freq and the commencement of either a Las Palmas or Teneife 3 times a week service, also the addition of an uk-p route most likely Birmingham or Manchester. Their Munich service will cease but again rumours suggest a possible Berlin service, although not to sure if that route would do to well out of cork, so at last some good news for cork.

[Tom the Tenor]

Take it easy there a minute, lads.

A lot of the EI increased capacity is not yet bookable to buy. Hopefully, it will materialise in time but for now caution is the order of the day. Still feel a bit funny about a fourth A320 at Cork for next summer.

Far more interesting is the FR situation. Ryanair's FR903/4 is ending mid January and is not loaded for the summer so it is just three flights a day Monday to Friday and on Sundays to Stansted for Summer 2006. The big shock will be Saturdays when there will be just two Ryanair flights from Stansted to Cork. The FR901/2 is gone for Saturday mornings so no day trips to London of a Saharda'! The flights operating will be a slightly later FR905/6 and the FR907/8. All of the flights to Cork originate in Stansted.

Ryanair will probably have to stick in an extra Dublin all right but as the situation is now it will require an extra aeroplane from somewhere. Will this mean another aeroplane for Cork?

easyJet appear to be happy enough to continue as their flights are bookable for next Summer. Interestingly, from the end of July (the peak!) they go down to just two flights a day! That is a bit hard to figure out but anyway it is good that easyJet hope to remain on at Cork and I hope they continue to do well.

I would not be worrying too much about America. Every obstacle will be put before the geniuses at Cork to prevent this from ever coming to fruition. Someone above mentioned the slopey runway. That is another good one! Plenty of ammo in the arsenal to keep Cork down.

[NC2]

New Routes on Aer Lingus website ex ORK:

Berlin (SXF) 3 p/wk from 27/6/05
Birmingham (BHX) 3 p/wk from 20/06/05
Tenneriffe(TFS) 1 p/wk from 1/7/05

Munich appears to be dropped and there are increased frequencies on other routes including Rome (FCO) 4 p/wk

[Tom the Tenor]

A connection to Berlin from Cork is magnificent news for Cork, Cork people and Cork Airport! A visit to Berlin is super. Was there a few years ago via Buzz ex STN for a wedding in Poland. I recommend the place very highly for a trip.

A once weekly Tenerife is peculiar in some ways. Tenerife has the least amount of IT flights from Cork. Las Palmas and Lanzarote are streets ahead in the popularity stakes? However, I am not in business of knocking it and at just once weekly EI cannot go too wrong.

Birmingham with a 3 per week frequency is the surprise. Cant get my head around that one. What with Mr Roy Keane deciding to play out his football career in Glasgow it would have been an ideal time to put in an EI flight to GLA even at the 3 per week?

The start dates are a little late though for the new routes, end June. Missing out on a lot of the summer?

[hafez]

Are EI trying to do what they did to jetmagic with aer arann? Aer Arann and bmibaby fly to birmingham aswell and i cant see it being too big of a hotspot :bored: It's all a bit strange.

[840]

The route to Birmingham looks like they had time to get a short, quick rotation out of one of the planes. IMO Manchester would have been a better option considering that there are a lot of available seats on the Birmingham route already. Another alternative for a quick rotation could have been Brittany (with maybe one flight a week to Jersey).

Berlin is a bit of a surprise. I thought it might be a route that Easyjet would look at, but I wasn't expecting Aer Lingus. Services to Germany can work from Cork, but you need to attract business pax and inbound and outbound leisure pax. My worry is that Aer Lingus don't have the marketing clout in Germany to do that.

Even then, Berlin isn't the richest part of Germany. I would have thought that, if they were looking for a route to Germany, Frankfurt or Duesseldorf might have made more sense. Frankfurt would have had the benefit of attracting interlining pax. Duesseldorf may have had a negative impact on Amsterdam yields though.

[Daza]

This isn't the first time that EI have operated to BHX from ORK. If I remember they used F50 and 146 aircraft twice daily in the nineties. The route proved popular until EI changed their fleet. Birmingham has the largest Irish ex-pat community outside London and is also now a transformed city with great shopping, world class hotels, exhibitions and entertainment. Dont knock Brum unless youve tried it!!! Good luck to EI with the service
Daza

[840]

This isn't the first time that EI have operated to BHX from ORK. If I remember they used F50 and 146 aircraft twice daily in the nineties. The route proved popular until EI changed their fleet. Birmingham has the largest Irish ex-pat community outside London and is also now a transformed city with great shopping, world class hotels, exhibitions and entertainment. Dont knock Brum unless youve tried it!!! Good luck to EI with the service
Daza

I'm not knocking Birmingham. I used to live near there for a couple of years when I was a kid. Only recently, I chose to fly to Birmingham rather than Heathrow when traveling to Oxford because it spared me the hassle of Heathrow.

The point was more that RE and WW provide 3 flights and almost 300 seats each way per day already. It's quite a crowded route.

[Tom the Tenor]

I met the Mrs in Brum! No complaints from me about the new EI service to Birmingham. Yes, must have been EI squeezing the schedule tightly to get in the extra rotation.

RE are double daily ORK-BHX and WW are one daily so sure enough there will be plenty of competition for EI to deal with once the service begins in the summer.

Equally, a ORK-GLA at 3 a week would have also been a short rotation. Glasgow has the critical mass of population and notwithstanding Roy Keane, Celtic etc, Glasgow is in my opinion better than Edinburgh for the arts and music and therefore has a tourist potential all of it's own in that area.

LG from GLA have been great for Cork and I salute them but for the likes of Sean Citizen swigging his jar of Murphys in Cork tonight the sight of a venerable SF340 is hardly a turn on for a nearly two hour flight in the middle of December?

As for a FR PIK flight. Hard to see with a 189 seater? If FR do base another aircraft at Cork and if again the schedule is made really tight, well, there may be a chance? With the unexpected success of FR LPL guess anything is possible!

Berlin is a booming city and again has the critical mass of population. The western areas of Poland are also not too far away and Berlin may be a gateway for journeys home from Cork for some Polish people now working in Ireland. At three a week I am sure the new route will do just fine.

Looks like Madrid is gone for another year. The EI 174 seaters are big aeroplanes, too big in some ways for trying out new routes from Cork? Madrid is one potential destination from Cork that might be better introduced by Iberia in that interlining pax with the huge IB network to Central and South America would be as seamless as possible?

IB have A319s and have A318s on order and are still flying the equally venerable MD-87s. A 100+ seater certainly has it's attractions at trying out new routes as JetBlue are demonstrating with the ERJ-190? Sure do hope Cork gets a Madrid in the next year or two if I am pardoned for indulging in a Christmas wish list!

[ryan2000]

If Glasgow works from SNN surely it would work from ORk though it would put pressure on LC and RE.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if Ryanair went to PIK now. Can't understand why Aerlingus didn't jump at GLA. Its a no brainer at weekends as Celtic have a huge following in Munster and they play most of their away games in the vicinity of Glasgow as well.

Slot issues prevented a MADRID route, that was their first choice. Amazing that they opted for TFS over ACE and LPA given that they are much more popular with the Charter operators ex ORK.

Well that's all Cork will get from EI untill 2007 but they have shown great confidence in the airport.

Speculation will now switch to Ryanair and Easyjet's plans for 2006. The latters LGW schedule is bizarre 3 per day untill mid July back to 2 Daily for the peak and up to 3 a day again from September. They've now missed a chance to launch ORK BERLIN but Dortmund still looms. RE must be vulnerable on BRS and BHD to a low cost predator.

[brian_dromey]

Well done Aer Lingus, more new routes, some strange choices though.

The BHX is indeed the joker in the deck, but I would have preferred to see them introduce a MAN service. Now that BA have pulled and WW are flying a schedule that mainly comprises usless evening rotations(from a connections point of view) there was a killing to be made. Also FR have a presence @ BHX and will MOL will probably not take too kindly to an invasion by 'fungus. Next FR route ex ORK, my money is on BHX.

The Berlin service is strange, would have thought FRA, DUS or even CGN would have been better targets? Maybe trying to keep U2 off the route?

I have not had a chance to look at the schedule in full yet but I imagine its pretty tight. With the increase in frequencies on old routes an new routes I imagine that they have tightned up the schedule of the other three 320's as well, as there was some(albeit very little) slack. All in all the ORK base must be EIs most profitable, effecient and friendly. They are finally showing the commitment to ORK they mouthed off about for so long. Now use the airbridges and well all be happy!

ps Does any one know if those marvelous A321s still transit Cork, or if the fourth A320 will be a 321 instead?

[840]

The Birmingham rotation seems to be squeezed between a morning rotation to Berlin and an evening rotation to Faro.

ps Does any one know if those marvelous A321s still transit Cork, or if the fourth A320 will be a 321 instead?

No idea about the new aircraft, but I suspect it won't be a 321.

Currently, the only scheduled visit by an EI 321 is in the summer timetable when one of the Heathrow flights is operated by a London based plane.

[MarkD]

ORK-GLA is a BA/Logiebear route and I for one would be less than happy if DM went playing on it for the sake of some Keano games, BA drop it then EI do too and there's no route!

I went on it end 2000 (J41 then I think) and was very happy for a nonstop if noisy trip, not to mention free food which presumably is still the case - no free nosh if EI run it! The horrors of what EI used to charge GLA-DUB-ORK in the early nineties (especially at end of college terms) are still with me...

[Yak97]

brian_dromey

"Also FR have a presence @ BHX and will MOL will probably not take too kindly to an invasion by 'fungus. Next FR route ex ORK, my money is on BHX."

I didn't think MOL really had much time for BHX? The only route they currently operate is DUB. They seem much more interested in EMA.

There used to be a BHX-SNN link but that was operated by Flybe. FR never reacted to that.

[EI-MICK]

The cork-london flights used to be done with a london based A321,however for the summer season the A321 was pulled for operating the sun routes from dub and just the one at luchtime arrived in cork,although they are nice and long,theyre filthy compared to the 320.

[Shamrock 125]

I don't see why people see Berlin as a bit of a mystery. It makes perfect sense. The flight from DUB is full almost every morning, not with Germans or Irish amazingly but Polish. Trust me I know I'm sick of telling them that they can't buy Duty free but that isnt any good since they haven't a word of English. Can I see your boarding card there please? - "no" is the reply
All right lad suit yourself! They haven't a clue what you're saying!

[Tom the Tenor]

Yes, Shamrock 125, we are in agreement about Berlin. Regular train connections from Berlin makes the western areas of Poland a cinch.

More of an issue for EI next year at Cork will be the relatively late arrival of the 4th Airbus for the new routes and the current destinations that are to get a boost in capacity.

The aeroplane will not get to Cork until late June/start of July which is some significant way into the summer schedule. Surely, this must be of some concern as to how the potential financial rewards will be overall for EI come the end of a busy summer season?

What is the situation with A320 delivery? Does the late arrival of the 4th Airbus to Cork suggest EI will be short of airframes next summer?

[ryan2000]

Glad to hear that John Smyth is once again playing an active role in developing business at Cork. Heard that he was very involved in the Aerlingus expansion there, well done John.

[eastjimmy]

is john smyth involved with EI or the CAA...???? Which ever the expansion is more then welcomed.... Happy Xmas and lets hope its a very good and historic year at ORK.
Regs
EJ:ok: :cool: :O :)

[brian_dromey]

My reference to the "marvelous A321" is not anything more than personal prefrencefor that type. 3 full size exits on the port side just appelat to me, and the a321s had very comfortable seats, that were fer more spacious than the awful seats on BA 747-400s. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt an a321 based full time in Cork untill the 3rd 320 was stationed @ ORK earlier in the year? I certainly remember red-eye charters tio Faro on behalf of Irish Tour Operators, also remember full business class service throughout the cabin! Ah those were the days!

I know the expansion @ ork is fantastic, but maybe we are becomming a little forget ful that EI all but abondoned ORK in 2001/2002, when only three flights to LHR daily and AMS and CDG at only a couple of times weekly? Mind you the base must now have exceptional yields, as the fares certainly are not the bargin-basement variety that EI.com would have us believe!

I think we all look forward to the days when an A330 will operate direct flights to USA, however can we epect the LHR then to decrease in frequency, with perhaps BHX going in there, and the 3x weekly to go to GLS? EI still intend to announce 10 more routes for next summer, and perhaps if (big,big if) they manage to get aircraft I think it would be possible, and profitable.

[EI-MICK]

brian i think all the heathrow flights were done by an A321 upto last winter,not sure if it was based there.There is a market there for GLS to trounce loganair but im not sure logan would be affected if ryanair opened a prestwick route.considering prestwick is not glasgow.

[Tom the Tenor]

A North Atlantic will work ex Cork but to do so it has to be, more or less, Aer Lingus. Leaving aside the issue of aircraft availability of the A330 there remains the troublesome problem of the Cork runway. I am going to stick my neck out here a little - it is quite unlikely that we will ever see a ORK-JFK with an A330 unless some seats are blocked off and that makes a fool of the operation. Sadly, the Cork runway at 7000 feet is just too short and it is hard to ever see a runway extension in the next five years or so bearing in mind there is no money for the 2nd airbridge!

The Slatterys series was Cork's best ever hope for flights to America but it was not to be. Even if a few of the flights up to Christmas had flown it would have made all the difference looking ahead for the future.

[mark_heg]

Hmmmm yes the runway is 7000ft but there are several runways around the globe that are just over 7000 ft i.e. St Maartens is 7,150ft and it is capable of taking 747-400 and other heavies. I dont see why cork couldnt take A330-200 for example. Also EI used to lease MD-11 to operate US routes before, could they not just lease 767-200 / 300 for the same purpose??

Or how about AA, they are pulling newcastle they could easily switch their 757 to cork, and operate ork-bos. That would be ideal. I know that AA have reduced their frequency to snn over the winter, I think the same operation could be run out of cork.

[Tom the Tenor]

To get around the idea of any airline trying to ever sneak away from snn the cute people there are going to reduce charges from America by around thirty per cent in the post stopover era. Hard to see how the gang at Cork will ever compete against such discounting. Remember, again, there is no money at Cork for the 2nd airbridge! This simple decision says it all.

As regards EI and suggesting a ORK-MAN. Ryanair have generally hoovered up that market with the success of their service from Liverpool to Cork and unlike the crowd at bmi baby Ryanair shoot CATII approaches at Cork!

EI are taking out the mid galley of the A321s and are putting in more seats. The capacity will then be around 225 or thereabouts. Seat pitch should remain the same. Not sure if that kind of capacity has a future at Cork?

[ryan2000]

Very Senior people in EI have publicly stated that the Runway at ORK is not an issue in relation to JFK or BOS. The bilateral is a far bigger obstacle and now of course we hear that EI has promised Minister Cullen that it will continue to deliver 400,000 pax per year from on the SNN US routes.

That promise will not be worth the paper its written on once the company is privatised but in the meantime they may be reluctant to dilute SNN's traffic by starting a CORK US service especially as there's a general election on the horizon.

Having said that many Cork people fly to the US via LHR and on CO, AA and DL from SNN so there maybe an opportunity there.

Does anyone now if an A330 can park in the one stand that does have an airbridge at Cork. Anyone know of any other airport that only has one airbridge?

[mark_heg]

I would have to say location location location, let say ppl travel up and down to snn from cork and the surrounding region and given the awkward times of arrival at snn. People would be willing to spend an extra $50, as they already spend that in petrol and the hassels etc etc. I cant wait for the stop over to end and to see what happens. I would spend an extra $60 to fly to cork alone just to see it happen.

[brian_dromey]

I dunno if this is even possible, but could EI perhaps use narrowbodies over the Atlantic, they would probably need ETOPS certification, and perhaps auxilary tanks?
If using an A320 they get 174 seats(prob less cause they would pob need a premier class service, or in the region of 210/220 on the A321s? Surely the systems for auxilary tanks is very similar to the 'snap-in' type on the a319LR? It would just provide a graduated increase in capacity as t/a service is introduced, in fairness the yanks, if they ever come, will prob use 757s any way!

[Tom the Tenor]

Use of the A320 for the Atlantic has been crossing my mind too of late. What about a Cork to JFK via St Johns, Newfoundland (YYT) for fuel and seek a 5th freedom from the Canadians to operate flights St Johns - JFK if the Ireland Canada bilateral disallows direct pax flights from Cork to St Johns.

I think Continental Express fly St Johns to EWR with ERJ 145LR? An A320 to New York would be a boost to the economy in Newfoundland, an economy that has always struggled due to fishing decline and a lot of the local folk needing to live off social security etc.

An Irish A320 in EI colours might help to do wonders for the local tourist industy in Newfoundland in helping to draw the Americans for fishing and hunting etc? Great circle route from ORK - YYT is 1973 miles so an A320 can easily get that far in range with the necessary ETOPS certification.

[MarkD]

Why would someone do 320 to JFK via YYT (slow, narrowbody, stop-fuel-go in YYT) when an immigration precleared A330 is 90 mins up the road?

I used to think a 319 SNN-YYT-SNN might work as a AA-style stopover buster but if the bilateral is re-neged now it will be along the lines of the US one which means SNN won't have to be placated.

[ryan2000]

The first thing that the CAA need to do is to commence serious negotiations with Aerlingus or a US carrier.

Wishing we had transatlantic or aspiring to a service won't make it happen.

I've no doubt that it can be viable but EI or CO will look for substantial marketing support.

Cork is very reluctant to part with finance probably because the board is really only existing in shadow form and the DAA is not prepared to sanction any further debt on top of the massive 163 million expenditure on the new terminal and other landside work.

So unlike Shannon who believe in throwing money at airlines, Cork look for a short term financial return for thier investment and that is not always forthcoming.

[Tom the Tenor]

Why an A320 from Cork when there is pre-cleared US immigration at an airport in the midwest, asks MarkD.

Firstly, it is not 90 minutes but at least double that at 360 minutes if not 400 minutes if you add in the car journey time from the Cork area, the check in time, and the American immigration screening process as well.

Similarly, on the return journey Cork people have to plead, beg and generally lower themselves in asking friends and relations to rise in the middle of the night to again drive up to the midwest to meet, greet and collect their passenger friends once more, have a breakfast roll and then head back down again to Cork. Easily, another 4 to 5 hour detail.

Cork passengers should say No to the airport in the midwest and No to their dirty politics.

[EI-MICK]

double 90mins is 180 tom!!!! i know a genuine mistake but what is the clearance?? 90-180 mins or 3-400??

[MarkD]

Tom

stop grasping at straws. Check in and immigration have to be done somewhere. If NYC-ORK is to beat SNN it must be nonstop. ORK to somewhere SNN does not serve might work in a one-stop.

The point about needing transport is of course well taken - however if you don't live in Cork city (say Mallow, Charleville, Mitchelstown) you will probably end up with the same problem for either airport.

[Shanwickman]

Tom and a few others, there is no point in continuously complaining about Shannon. Negative camapigning will get EICK nowhere. Best to keep fighting for EICK and let the others get on with their business. Best of luck to EICK with getting a
transatlantic service and hopefully EINN wil prosper with its
service too.

[ryan2000]

Let all the airports compete on a level playing pitch but that's clearly not happening at the moment.

Already SNN expect to be given favourable treatment in the new open skies era. Why should Aerlingus have to promise that they will continue to operate from there in the future ?

Minister Cullen is expected to lead a delegation to the US in 2006 campaigning on SNN's behalf, will there be any mention of ORK or NOC, I doubt it somehow.

[CamelhAir]

Cork to NYC stopping at Newfoundland??? Looks like the xmas booze was good this year. It's no longer 1955, EI don't fly the Connie anymore and the new buzz word is profitability.

[Tom the Tenor]

Shanwickman wants to "Let the others get on with their business." Yes, the attitude we know so well from the airport in the midwest. Browbeating yet another Minister for Transport, Cullen to promise the world to snn and now sticking it to Mannion of Aer Lingus too. "Let others get on with their business." Ah, yes, it all adds up now.

Decades of weakness at Cork has not helped. Cork Airport should be beating down the door of the DAA for more ramp, more runway and a CATIII navaid to stop the heamorrage of business and diverted passengers from Cork every year and I am sick to my eye teeth of hearing of every conceivable excuse being trotted out to keep Cork down.

Let Cork Airport play a cunning, dirty politics game of it's own. Minister for Enterpirse, Martin should be driven crazy by Cork for aid for the above technical improvments.

The question is though does Cork Airport and her board have the guts for such a game or is just more weakness for the sake of the midwest status quo?

[mark_heg]

hmmmm, just got up at 3.30 this morning to due the lovely shannon turn, managed to get back to cork at 8 am, mind you EI132 was in early so friends were waiting outside. I was also travelling fast 70 mph on the good stretches and not stopping. So this add 4.5 in total drive time to the 5 hour hop across the pond. I think snn should stop whining about the loss of pax and the like, let there be a level playing field allow ork to do their own services.
I was also looking at the new bypass through ballincollig gave me some ideas for runway 35/17 they could easily do an extension by suspending some of the runway in the air. And yes Cat II and CAT III are definitely needed, when are CAA "breaking away" from DAA completely??

[CCR]

Its only a matter of time before a scheduled transatlantic service will be launched out of Cork. It would be nice to see Aer Lingus do it with a wet leased 757 similar to what they did out of Shannon a few years ago but if they don't , I'm sure some airline like Continental will. Until then, I'm quite happy to connect through Dublin with Ryanair for 1 cent each way!!!

[Bearcat]

it would be great to see but it wont be done by A320s. ORK direct JFK i reckon needs 25t of juice....way above max fuel quantity and tech stops forget. Guess you'll have to wait 3/4 years when Aer Lingus take delivery of the first of the 787s.....perfect machine for the job>

Cheers:ok:

[brian_dromey]

I thought EI were to purchase A350s? Or has that gone down the swanny??? I have a feeling that EI would configure the 787s in 9 abrest, the 8 abrest of the A350,would be much less 'cosy' I imagne.

The key to the deal will be the bridging options as EI will need planes from Nov @ the latest(earlier if they go Boeing) Boeing have plenty of 757 and 767s lying out the back, so that should not be a prob, but as for A330s? I dunno, dont think there is much around?

If EI do go Boeing, Ill bet they take some 757s for Cork and SNN,untill 2010ish as lets face it, who can fill an A350 from SNN to LAX?

[Bearcat]

the rumour has it that announcement to be made in Feb....Boeing to supply A340s as a stop gap...new rtes to SFO, Dallas, MIA...787s then for 2009/10. Its all speculative rumour but thats the latest from the rumour in house mill.

[EI-CFC]

Boeing to supply A340s as a stop gap.

????

777's?

[eick320]

aer lingus are looking in to leasing 2/3 a340 from air canada, but according media sources the decision was to be made by christmas. The only problem with changing to boeing is the re-training of all crew and the trde unions will be looking for some rewards for that .... also why have a different long haul fleet when clearly their short haul is and will always be airbus.

[airhumberside]

Boeing bought some A340's from Singapore Airlines as part of a deal for them to buy Boeing aircraft. They where leased out to other airlines by Boeing Capital but Im not sure if Boeing Capital still own them or have sold them on

[MarkD]

All the SQ 340s were placed by Boeing with Emirates, Etihad, Gulf and China Airlines.

Three SQ 310s also went to Boeing, two are with Air India and one was scrapped.

EI 340s might be ex AC but if they go to EI it will probably be via Boeing after the 777s arrive (late 2006-early 2007) since AC has been scraping around everywhere to find 340s and 767s - it's doubtful there are any "spares" when AC searched high and low for the ones they have now.

[Tom the Tenor]

The rumor about EI going to SFO and MIA seems to be solid enough as the whispers have all ready reached good ol' Cork so it must be true! However, the other route that was mentioned was not DFW but PHL so there appears to be a bit of confusion in that matter. Needs a shorter range aeroplane so may be easier to put together in the short term?

If a deal was struck with Boeing for the 787 would there be any sense in Boeing offering some new build 767-400s in the interim for the new routes expansion? Only asking, mind! Not wanting to be accused of being on the Xmas sauce again!

Not into the A vs B debate which tends to get a little hysterical but if Airbus thought they were to lose out to the 787 at EI they may well go for broke and offer the deal of the century to shift the A350? Guess the same could be said for Boeing, of course!

All those composites, though. Hmmm, those aeroplanes will need some serious minding on the ground? Whatever airframe is chosen for EI hope they can get in and out of Cork! As may be guessed that is my bottom line!

Recently, someone above asked a good question and it has been going around in my head quite a bit. More of the Xmas sauce! When Cork Airport's new terminal is eventually brought into use sometime next year can an Airbus A330 park nose in to the gate with the sole airbridge? Not that Cork will be getting too many visits and anyway I am only asking, mind!

[CCR]

Does anyone know if the 7000 ft runway at Cork is sufficient for either the 787 or the A350 to do a Cork-New York service without weight restrictions?
Currently, I think only the 757 can do it.

[neidin]

A330 would have large load restrictions ex ORK. But it could go to JFK, BOS. ORD would be massive restrictions. A330 has done ops ex ORK on sun charters. 787 and A350 are not usable on the runway at ORK to USA except with large payload restrictions. CAT III is next to impossible with landfall at ORK.

[ryan2000]

Aerlingus Cargo facilities at Cork are minimal and they truck all of it to SNN and DUB. The critical factor would be whether an A330 could take a full compliment of pax to JFK or BOS as freight would probably be a non issue in the short term.

If a transatlantic service was established the case for a runway extension would be very strong. As it stands its very hard to justify as there are no restrictions on any existing scheduled or charter flights with the possible exception of the HEMUS TU154's operating to Bourgas and Varna.


I heard that reps from the Cork Board held a meeting today with the Dept.of Transport.

The financial situation has to be clarified. If Cork is saddled with the full 163million euro debt, we can forget about any additional expenditure for the forseeable future i.e. the next decade.

[Bearcat]

Tom...your right Philly is what they are actively looking at.

They have to do something...all US flights are currently chockers these days.

[Tom the Tenor]

DFW, PHL, or wherever - any large U.S. metropolis will do? PHL has the attraction of all ready been softened up by the U S Airways service over the past few summers so easy pickings there? A no brainer really!

For the same kind of reason is it hard to ever see any U.S. airline with 757s ever being brave enough to try New York to Cork? If they did it would just make it easier for Aer Lingus to arrive a little later and hover up all the business? However, if Mr Mannion has been got at by the midwest Mafia to commit to a future there would EI want to consider Cork for a transatlantic service?

Sure, you cannot compare like with like exactly but the NCL runway is at 7,642 feet and for the coming summer season Monarch are operating A330 flights from there to Orlando SFB at 4,219 miles distant whilst ORK-JFK is at 3,112 miles distance. The Aircraft Classification Numbers appear just to be within limits for a Cork - North East Corridor USA Airbus A330 type operation in theory but how might it be from a factural, technical view point of view?

Now, if EI were to lease a pair of 757s for ORK and snn operations the picture would be totally different.

Well, if representatives from the Cork board had meetings today with the Dept of Transport it sounds like it must have been urgent enough? To be doing any kind of business at all between Christmas and New Year is unusual. Guess the Euro 163 million debt must have been focusing the mind a bit over the Christmas dinner and causing some indigestion?

If that now transformed lovable rogue, Mr Liam Lawlor, was still alive he would be shoutin' out at the top of his voice - Mr Chairman, Try the Gaviscon! It always worked for me, Mr Chairman!

[ryan2000]

The word is that political intervention at the highest level will be needed to resolve the stand off that has developed over the debt at Cork Airport.

[brian_dromey]

I dont think we can expect any movement on ANY new routes out of Cork untill;
A) The debt situation is sorted out(just saddle DUB with it cause they decided we were to have a 'Gold-Plated Tash-ma-Hal' MOLs words.
B) The new terminal is actually opened.

The runway issue is a bit of chicken and egg issue, there will have to be some strongly performing t/a ops out of EICK before the runway is extended, and the taxi-way is constructed. Wont be holding my breath!

EIs selection of long haul type will also be crucial, as I already said. I dunno bout this, but isnt the 787 ment to replace the 757, and if so can we expect such a strong perfomer(RANGE/RUNWAY/PAYLOAD)? I know TOM, etc are moaning that they have no real 757 replacement?

If EI do go Boeing hey have plenty 757s lying around, which could make sense for EI to LHR/TFS/ACE, etc, and of course t/a from ORK/SNN/??BFS??