Ryanair - really 'no frills?'

[lala_brit]

I need some advise on Ryanair and the 'no frills' airline sector.

What do you think are Ryanair's main strengths, weaknesses, threats and opportunities?

What Economical, Social, Political and Technological factors affect the airline?

What is Ryanair's strategy?

Will they ever be as succesful as the main airlines such as BA?

Thank-you all responses are greatly appreciated....

lala_brit
;) :confused:

[Unwell_Raptor]

I hope that your essay gets really good marks.

[Ballymoss]

Q What do you think are Ryanair's main strengths, weaknesses, threats and opportunities?

A MOL

Q What Economical, Social, Political and Technological factors affect the airline?

A Same as all others

Q What is Ryanair's strategy?

A F:mad: D if anyone knows!

Q Will they ever be as succesful as the main airlines such as BA?

A They already are

Rgds
The Moss:ok:

[Globaliser]

lala_brit: Will they ever be as succesful as the main airlines such as BA?This question is actually pretty meaningless. Ryanair does not do the same job as BA and is unlikely ever to do so. So the question is a bit like asking whether your local town's bus company will ever be as successful as National Express - they are simply not comparable.

[The SSK]

The traditional carriers are first and foremost network operators. They will get you and your bags from any point on their network to any other point with a single fare, a single ticket, the minimum of hassle (that’s the theory anyway). These are the real frills and they have real costs attached – think of the baggage transfer system under any hub airport. Most of their passengers are point-to-point, they are paying for these facilities but not using them.

The biggest single cost advantage the LoCos have is seating density – 25% more seats means 25% lower unit costs.

The LoCos in general but especially Ryanair are into maximising their non-ticket revenues – subsidies from the airports, but also inflight catering, car hire, insurance, photo developing, hotel bookings, anything that will turn a few pennies.

Nobody is ever going to make a profit with £1.99 or even £19.99 fares. The money is made as the aircraft fills up and the upper fare levels kick in. The last batch of passengers on a Ryanair flight will have paid fares close to business class. Failures in the LoCo sector probably didn’t pay enough attention to this.

Ryanair’s business model is substantially different from the others. Easy fly to where they think the market is. Ryanair will fly anywhere if they believe they can line up the costs and non-ticket revenues in order to get the fares down to rock-bottom level.

[slim_slag]

Ryanair does not do the same job as BA and is unlikely ever to do so.

Sure they do. The only difference as far as I'm concerned is that BA interlines and ryanair don't. Oh yeh, ryanair also provide food on board :)

So lala_brit, why don't you just provide answers to your own questions and I bet we will have some fun...

[PAXboy]

Well, this short thread has given me more laughs than many others!!! lala_brit since you registered on PPRuNe today and this is your first post, it may well be that you are a student but my ATR went off [Advanced Troll Radar] thanks for the laughs anyway.

Still, if you are serious, do some searching on this site and you will find many, many threads about FR. It is not often that you can say a company devises a new angle but MoL is such a fabulous b@st@rd that he appears to have done so. By this, I agree with Ballymoss, that MoL is both the strength and the weakness.

Look at any company run by a dictator and the worry is: What happens when the dictator goes. This holds true for any commercial company, as much as it does for countries with actual dictators. Dictators tend not to do succession planning! :p

I think that Ballymoss and Globaliser have given you the 100% of the possible answers.
--------------------
"I tell you, we are here on Earth to fart around, and don't let anybody tell you any different." Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

[Sammie_nl]

sounds like somebody has to do a SWOT(strength, weakness, opportunity, threat) analysis for the Marketing101 class and coun't google her/his way out of it. Darn, whats the next option.

I'll give you one hint......



yield management, their are not there to fill their seats, but to have the highest yield out of everyflight. This involves forcasting. And smart consumers (if you'r flexible off course) can beat forcasting.





don't ask, just think

[slim_slag]

Airlines have been using yield management since the sixties. Maybe the new ones think they have a better model? Easy seems to, I read once they see their software as giving them a competitive advantage which can be applied to car rental, internet cafe pricing, cruise ships, la de la de la. So the legacy airlines will also sell you a cheaper seat if you book in advance. Where I suspect the newbies differ is their corporate culture values the customer who pays £1.99 equally to the customer who pays £199.99. The legacy carriers don't see it this way.

[newswatcher]

ryanair also provide food on boardFor the record, should "provide" be changed to "sell"!

[slim_slag]

It's not obvious whether that is a question or not, but you may replace my word with yours if it makes you happy. To me, it means the same thing.

Those carriers who provide meals without payment at the point of service are hiding the cost of the meal in the ticket in much the same way as they hide the cost of the jet fuel in the ticket. Er, well that's how it used to work! At least your no frill carriers give the consumer the choice of whether they wish to pay for airplane food. With other carriers you pay for the food whether you eat it or not. Which one is the more customer centric approach?

[Dogs_ears_up]

The only difference as far as I'm concerned is that BA interlines and ryanair don't
Really??? An astonishing statement IMHO - Clearly Ryanair have implemented some remarkable changes very recently. I'm not "knocking" Ryanair - they do what they do, very well: But to suggest parity in all areas bar one with BA strikes me as odd. :confused:

[newswatcher]

slim_slag apologies, following a recent Ryanair experience, perhaps I should have questioned the use of the word "food"!
:p

I just hope BA have everything sorted when I travel to LA with them at the end of this month.
:hmm:

[slim_slag]

dogs_ears,

Yes, as far as I am concerned, that's how I see it. FR are point to point, BA have interline agreements. Bottom line is they both ship me from A to B for a mutually agreeable price. BA go to places FR don't, and FR go to places BA don't. LH go to places neither of them go. I no longer spend enough money with BA for them to provide me the so called 'full frills' services that Ryanair don't provide to anybody. So, as far as I am concerned (and I suspect this will be the experience of the vast vast vast majority of airline passengers) there's no difference between the pair. If anything, I have another one, you could say FR have better policies when it comes to reusing funds for tickets not used. I think one of them deserves to succeed more than the other, but it's not enough to make a difference to me when it comes to spending money.

newswatcher :ok: I always took my own food when in the back with BA anyway, so no difference to FR.

[newswatcher]

It's not just the food I was thinking about. Couple of G&Ts with the film. :D :D

[The SSK]

Slim_slag,
BA may have interline agreements and may even carry a few passengers who interline onto other carriers but far, far more relevant is that you can make online connections on BA. They will fly you from Prague to Chicago or from Stockholm to Jo'burg.

Which is why BA, Air France, Lufthansa etc refer to themselves as 'network carriers'. If you want to fly Ryanair from, say, Glasgow to Berlin via Stansted, you have to buy two tickets, pay two sector fares, check your bags twice - and you have no recourse if you miss your connection.

Apart from the obvious, that BA flies longhaul, almost all other differences between them are just a matter of degree.

[You Gimboid]

Yield is nothing to do with it.

RYR make their profits through playing the aviation industry, not selling airline seats. Even if you sell all 189 seats on a 737-800 on a trip to Rome for £15, you make precisely £0.00 (even in euros!) once you take out staff costs, fuel costs, mortgage or leasing costs, airways charges and landing fees, handling fees, maintenance, depreciation etc.

However, you buy and lease 50 737-800s after flogging three to five years maximum use out of them and you make megabucks. Also, if you charge everybody for food, water, wheelchairs, excess baggage, inflight sales, advertising, car hire, hotels, buses and everything else they might need on one of your flights you also make £££'s.

That's Ryanair's secret. They cut cost base to the bone, then maximise revenue by anything but seat sales. They ain't never going to be BA, but they sure will prolong the myth of low-cost air travel for a few years to come, until MOL can buy Ireland and run it as his private fiefdom.

(sorry just realised he already does!!)

[bealine]

You should all recognise, by now, if you study slim slag's responses to other posts, he/she is very anti "heritage" carriers and has a personal dislike of BA!

She states there is no difference between BA and FR! I suggest that there are a few very big differences!

In the event of delay or cancellation, BA will apply the rules under the EU compensdation Charter - FR will not! (So far, MOL is waiting to see the results of the EU appeal court hearing before he will pay anything!)

Speaking for BA, we never needed an "EU charter" as, broadly speaking, we have always provided accommodation / transport / refreshment for stranded passengers without needing any legislation to enforce it!

The other big difference is that BA has never deliberately set out to mislead its customers. FR's advertising has had to be stopped many times as misleading, dishonest or untruthful!

BA, by and large, treat staff fairly and reasonably. FR treat staff in an appalling fashion, relying on their desire to enter the aviation industry at all costs in order to whip them into shape! Where MoL can get away with it, he flouts both employment laws and aviation working procedures and this is well-documented - particularly among the Irish press.

BA have never deliberately compromised the safety of either its own passengers or those of other carriers. FR's pilots had to be rebuked for regularly claiming they had insufficient fuel in order to jump ahead in the queue for landing. This could have had serious implications for other airlines' passengers as well as their own by making CAA controllers believe that genuine low fuel situations were merely "crying wolf"!

Michael O Leary repeatedly challenges the Boeing Technical Manuals believing maintenance procedures can be short cut. Thankfully, he hasn't yet been permitted to amend any schedules but the mere fact that he challenges Boeing's authority, when by his own admission he knows nothing about aircraft and has no desire to know anything about them, shows he has the potential to be an unsafe operator!

If you read my postings, you will find I dislike Ryanair and I dislike EasyJet. The difference is that I would fly with EayJet, I would never set foot on a Ryanair aircraft!!!

[slim_slag]

Actually bealine, if you read what I posted you will see I do not differentiate between FR and BA service at the price levels I am prepared to pay, so I am hardly BA bashing.

As for fuel safety, I don't believe most of the tittle tattle I read on these anonymous bulletin boards, which is why I am waiting for the final report on that 747 which landed at MAN.

I think O'Leary is saying that compensation should not exceed the price you paid for your ticket. Now you may not agree with him, but you have to accept he has a point. Now in my >500,000 miles with BA I have been treated very well and very shoddily. My most recent experience, BA cancelled the flight I had paid for, gave me no idea on when they might be able to transport me, and most certainly did not provide hotel or refreshments. They advised me to stay at home. Their only remedy was to refund the cost of my flight in full, no extra compensation was offered. Sounds exactly what O'Leary is saying, so BA and FR are pretty identical there too!

And I'm a 'he', you must be confusing me with my sister, 'fat' :)

[PAXboy]

You Gimboid has it right. Remember that MoL is an accountant. Now, I have nothing against them in principal, as my brother-in-law is one but MoL exemplifies their reputation.

[Globaliser]

slim_slag: Actually bealine, if you read what I posted you will see I do not differentiate between FR and BA service at the price levels I am prepared to pay, so I am hardly BA bashing.I think this rather proves bealine's point. Assuming that your reference to price levels means that you (like me) fly discount economy on BA, there is a still a large gulf between BA's service levels and FR's service levels. If you cannot see it, or will not see it, this just illustrates an anti-BA bias.

FR themselves will gladly tell you that they provide less service than BA. So why try to puff one up, or denigrate the other?

[slim_slag]

Let's not put words into people mouths Globaliser. Lets go straight to the horse and see what Ryanair have to say about their service compared to BA. The latest
6th Oct (http://www.ryanair.com/site/EN/news.php?yr=05&month=oct&story=gen-en-061005) press release on FR web site says:


“Millions of passengers compare Ryanair and British Airways on a daily basis and more passengers chose Ryanair because of Ryanair’s lower prices, better punctuality, better passenger service and guarantee of no fuel surcharge ever”.

I am merely stating my opinion that, to me, there is no difference between FR and BA at the prices I pay. You, with your pro BA bias, take this to mean I am denigrating BA. Wouldn't it be just as reasonable to say that my thinking BA and FR are equivalent is denigrating FR??

[10secondsurvey]

I can't believe that someone is seriously suggesting that BA and Ryanair are equivalent. I mean, get a grip would you.

I personally think that getting my baggage checked through to my final destination, rather than picking it up and re-checking it in at every stop is a service worth it's weight in gold, maybe even more. (are you listening BMI?)

I guess the acid truth would be, at the same price flying to the same destination on a single leg, which would you choose: ryanair or BA? I'm guessing here, but I think most people would choose BA- seats are nicer/comfier/more leg room (only just!), staff are more helpful (and intelligent), food and drink free, better ground handling arrangements, and the guy in charge is not MOL (reason enough on its own).

Don't get me wrong, Ryanair is fine if you want it bog cheapo, but no sane person would ever say it is right up there with BA. That's just daft.

[cdb]

Another reason...

if a BAW plane goes tech, they'll get another one onto the apron ASAP. If a RYR goes tech, you get a grudging refund and lose your holiday!

If the load factor on a RYR is too low, they'll cancel the flight at short notice. Tough luck!

If a BAW has to divert, they'll pay for a bus to get you to your destination. RYR? You guessed it...

and don't forget about the rather creative city descriptions for the airports!

[Globaliser]

slim_slag: I am merely stating my opinion that, to me, there is no difference between FR and BA at the prices I pay.As there is no pleasing you, then please yourself. The two posts immediately above say more than I could, in response to your proposition that FR provide the same level of service as BA, even in the cabins in which both you and I fly. If you really cannot see any difference between what FR and BA do, both when things go right and when they go wrong, then you are very welcome to the FR experience.

As for that press release, selective quotation is a wonderful tool for the disingenuous. That refers to BA's GG-related problems, not to BA's service levels generally.

If one were to indulge in the same game, one could offer this (http://travel.guardian.co.uk/cheapflights/story/0,8945,750642,00.html):-1. What's your policy if I miss the last train home from the airport due to your aircraft arriving late?
Ryanair: Will not provide or pay for alternative transport.
British Airways: Will usually pay for or provide alternative transport to get you home.

2. If I am stranded abroad because the last flight of the evening is cancelled will you put me up in a hotel and pay my transport to the accommodation?
Ryanair: No
BA: Yes

3. If I am travelling, say, from Scotland to London, and have booked an onward flight with your airline but I miss the connecting flight because your first aircraft is delayed, will I incur any extra cost if getting on a later flight?
Ryanair: Passenger will have to pay for another flight.
BA: Three options: will carry you on another flight on which a seat is available; will re-route you to your final destination using either BA's services, those of another airline or other means of transport; or give you a refund for that flight sector.

4. If my flight is delayed and I have to wait in the airport, what refreshments are offered?
Ryanair: None.
BA: Refreshments after 90 minutes, a meal after 3 hours and return transport or overnight accommodation as appropriate after a 6-hour delay. May not apply if delay is beyond BA's control.

5. Do you offer compensation if your aircraft is delayed?
Ryanair: No compensation.
BA: Only under extreme circumstances, but will try to put passengers up in hotels, pay for meals and get them on next available flight. Since then, of course, the EU regulation has come into force. Which Ryanair is reportedly ignoring.

[slim_slag]

Now then Globaliser, if you re-read your own post, you will see I was not being disingenuous - just rebutting one of your points, and although I say it myself, quite effectively :)

So, I have read your link and am wondering who the hell is this airline called Go ????

[Pax Vobiscum]

Surely this is a false dichotomy. I can't recall ever being faced with a meaningful choice between FR and BA. In the rare cases where they serve the same destination (and I don't count Hahn/Frankfurt as such), I'm going to be swayed towards BA simply because it's a pain for me to get to Stansted (if I lived in Norwich, I might have a different opinion).

When I've been faced with a genuine choice between "full service" and "low cost" carriers, I've usually found that the fares differ by no more than 10% (hey, there must be a competitive marketplace in operation here). Even when BA are more expensive (which is by no means always the case), I'm more than prepared to accept the additional cost for the obvious reasons that have already been stated.

On the occasions where the low cost carrier offers the better service (eg direct flights from London to Aarhus or Tampere), I travel with them without a qualm (though I refuse to part with a fiver for a cheese roll).

[slim_slag]

Quite right Pax Vobiscum, there are a lot of variables, the airline itself is just one of many. In my opinion, the minimal differences between service levels here and there are not sufficient to alter my decision making process. I will go with the best value proposition, which is a mixture of total cost and total travel time from door to door. Seat pitch, airline quality food, and even a vague promise of putting me up in a hotel on the rare occasion things go wrong does not matter to me.

Short haul airlines in Europe are equivalent (which means being essentially equal with all things considered). You would pay more for BA, I wouldn't.

To bore you further, most of my short haul flights in the past 12 months have been on Easyjet, a few on Ryanair, and none on BA. My most recent was on SAS. That's not because I don't like BA, it's because BA never came out of my sieve as the best value proposition. Had they done so, I would have given them my money.

FR and BA compete head to head on LGW-DUB. Once you add up all the hidden charges levied by both airlines, the cheapest FR fare is approx 50% of the cheapest BA fare. FR have better redemption rules. The most expensive FR fare is about 10% more than the most expensive economy BA fare, and BA have better redemption rules. That shouldn't suprise anybody. But, more interestingly to me, the BA club fare is only 20% more than the most expensive FR fare. So would you pay that extra £60 to fly BA club as opposed to FR economy?

Never fall in love with a stock or an airline.

[BRUpax]

Well I have to go to Beziers. Choice of Charleroi to Carcassonne with RYR, or the more expensive Brussels to Toulouse with SN Brussels and a longer drive to Beziers. Guess what? I'm taking the SN Brussels route. I don't care how cheap RYR are, I won't fly with them. They are an insult to the industry!

[MonkeyAlan]

Lala brit.... looks like this has just turned into debate about RYR...so hopefully this will help...

Strengths: simple (low cost) business model, yield management, single type fleet (B737), direct distribution (no travel agents), cash generating (cash in the bank is vital for an airline), well known brand, popular website generates advertising revenue

Weakness: Not too many to be honest (ignore the complaints about how they treat their staff, they are in business to make money), MOL can be a bit too voiciferous.... he needs to avoid doing a Gerald Ratner, business model can be weakened by high oil prices, secondary airports may restrict their market eventually.

Opportunities: Open Skies policy in Europe and opening up of eastern europe means there are plenty more airports welcoming them with open arms, franchising outside of Europe to generate additional revenue.

Threats: legacy airlines going low cost, new entrants to the market, other transport services eg rail..

Lots of other factors which affect all airlines: interest rates- most aircraft are financed, oil price, world stability eg war, terrorist actions affect tourism market, green campaigners (bit of a red herring in reality... we would all like to be green but who wants to travel less...), Government policy of airports (capacity etc).

The low cost model has proved extremely successful (RYR and EZY) being the biggest beneficiaries. Others have failed but the market is growing.

Try reading the Simon Calder book about the no frill sector.

[PAXboy]

No Frills: The Truth Behind the Low-cost Revolution in the Skies

By Simon Calder
Foreword by Sir Freddie Laker
Pub May 2003
ISBN: 0753507706

[jack_essex]

In the past year I have flown with Ryanair around 20 times and BA once. The BA flight was to New York from Heathrow. This is definately not becasue I prefer Ryanair to BA. I would choose BA anytime but its simply convenience. When you can fly to Rome for £25 return with Ryanair from Stansted, and thats including all fees, taxes and charges then why would you pay well in excess of £100 to fly BA from Heathrow. That is only based on where I live (around 20 mins from Stansted so Heathrow is usually out of the question anyway for a short haul flight). The airport Ciampino that Ryanair fly to in Rome is actually much closer than then main airport that BA fly to. When ever I do fly BA I love the service you get, I think its just exciting to fly with them no matter what the circumstances are.

But when Ryanair offer flights so cheaply you normally don't mind the level of service you get. The only bad thing with Ryanair I have found to be is no seat numbers. In my view that is one of the only things dragging them down. If they simply had seat numbers then I generally think people would have a higher image of them.

I go the same place in the Costa Brava several times a year. I can either choose Ryanair from Stansted - Gerona for around £30 (the cheapest has ben £16 inc all taxes and charges) and then a 20 car trip. Or BA from Heathrow or Gatwick for around £100 and then over an hour car trip to get to Heathrow and then another hour once I get to Barcelona.

Finally, after my little rant, when Ryanair can fly you from London to the other end of Europe for less than a trian ticket into London from Essex then why would anyone not fly with them.

[bealine]

when Ryanair can fly you from London to the other end of Europe for less than a trian ticket into London from Essex then why would anyone not fly with them.

Easy!!! The concerns about my own Safety and Security!!! I would not fly RYR even if the tickets were free!!! (which MoL reckons might happen in a few years)

[MonkeyAlan]

Bealine,

can you elaborate please?

[jack_essex]

People can knock Ryanair all they want but you cannot fault their security or safety records. I have flown with them many many times and there has never been an issue at all with security. Sure, the service is not that great, you dont get a seat number. But as I said for flights that low there is no problem flying with them. And security has never been a problem with FR.

[Globaliser]

jack_essex: People can knock Ryanair all they want but you cannot fault their security or safety records.I won't go as far as bealine on this, but you don't have to read very far on PPRuNe before you see certain allegations being made about operations and culture. I'm not a professional pilot, I don't know how true these allegations are, or whether one should be concerned. But it's interesting to see their persistence, and I do sometimes wonder whether the holes in the cheese will line up one day.

[bealine]

Bealine, can you elaborate please

Please refer to my earlier post concerning "Crying Wolf over Low Fuel" and MoL's attempts to amend Boeing's maintenance schedules.

[bealine]

By saying that you are questioning the professionalism of their employees, which I don't think that you can

I can and I do say it - and what is more, all the facts I stated earlier have been reported by both the UK press and the Irish press and, what is more, RYR were admonished severely by the CAA for the disgraceful, and unsafe, conduct of their pilots!!!

[Wing Commander Fowler]

well if the press said it - it MUST be true.....:rolleyes:

....... and the "CAA" admonished them severely for the disgraceful, and unsafe, conduct of their pilots!!!????? - Do you know what you are saying here Bealine???? Substantiate this if you would please! :(

[slim_slag]

Its a real shame that they can't sort out a decent service that is comparable to full-service airlines. Imagine if they did and still offered cheaper tickets - what a product it could be then.

But their service does compare with the economy short haul service of other so called full service airlines. And that's because the 'full service' airlines have slashed their service level to compete. Flying BA in Europe is nothing like it was even 2 years ago, never mind 10.

Ryanair and Easy have actually got better over the past 2 years. Ryanair and Easy are still not Southwest, but they are getting closer. It's not inconceivable to me for Ryanair and Easyjet to get there in the next few years. I have no idea if that's in their business plan, but I think they could do it if they wanted to.

[bealine]

If Ryanair were so dangerous - why aren't they blacklisted?
Why aren't there stories of fuel gushing out of the wing tanks, bits falling off in-flight, passengers refusing to board? Why pay pilots a competitive salary? If they weren't concerned with safety, why not have the fleet piloted by failed ATPL candidates for pittance?

Fuel gushing out of fuel tanks? No

Pilots getting competitive salaries??? Read the Irish press concerning the pay/conditions of Ryanair's "elite"!!! (or trawl the Pilots' forums "Rumours and News" or "Airlines, Airports and Routes" of pprune!)

[CARR30]

.
cdb
If a BAW has to divert, they'll pay for a bus to get you to your destination. RYR? You guessed it...

.. well we were diverted on Ryanair from Montpellier to Nimes at Easter because of a local storm.

Guess what? Free coaches turned up after about 30 minutes and took us up the autoroute to Montpellier. We were only about an hour or so late.

We've flown to the South of France dozens of times with Ryanair. The worst you can say is that it's boringly predictable. You get on, plane takes off, flies a while, plane lands, you get off and collect the Hertz car.
Less than 2 and half hours after leaving Stansted you are on the autoroute.

We've got no complaints.

[kms901]

I fly Ryanair about 20 times a year, partly because my destination is nearest to an airport they fly into. Never been more than 30 minutes late, never lost a bag, never had a problem. The only problem for me is the seating scrum.

And their fleet is relatively new. which I find reassuring.

I hear grumbles about pay and conditions. but no-one is forced to worl for them.

[bealine]

but no-one is forced to work for them.

I, for one, am sick and tired of hearing this phrase, along with "No one has the right to a job for life"! These cliches are dragging Great Britain right down to pre-Victorian levels!!!

Indeed - you are forced to work for someone if you live in a depressed area, or if you've always wanted a career in aviation and O'Leary has provided the only opening for you!

If you don't work, you don't eat - period! So to say no-one forces you to work for whoever is wrong!

Remember what happened to the lady who said "Let Them Eat Cake!!!"

[CARR30]

"Let Them Eat Cake!!!"

Indeed, but don't forget you can always save a bob or two by bringing your own or getting it from Pret on the way to the gate. :ok:

[pax britanica]

Lo cost or no lo cost I wonder if any one has just done a simple analysis of people in the London /S E region flying Ryanair just because they live in East london or Essex. I live on the Surrey Hants border and so flying Ryanair involves a journey of 85 miles across London( 50% of the M25) I would never fly Ryanair even if theywere better than BA because the land journey is horrendous; by car-difficut or impossible by train for early or late flights and by Taxi is £120

So while there are a lot of comparisons aboutt heir service levels I wonder just how much of FRs growth is just geographical convenience for people who cannot face the journey to LHR from the East of the capital or who people who use FR services from provincial airports
PB

[Wing Commander Fowler]

Yes PB - we gave you Personal organisers, then personal video recorders and now we give you.......... Your own little airport in your garden!:}